Not sure what to do.

[soless]

I'm not sure what the deal is here. This 30-30 is seated to the crimp grove and it's not easy to chamber. I have to seat it considerably shorter before the boolit just touches the rifling. Is my mold Out of spec? Is my chamber short? Should I just seat deeper? Looking for advice.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q308/p1choco/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-07/0719142028a_zpsposxv21a.jpg (http://s139.photobucket.com/user/p1choco/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-07/0719142028a_zpsposxv21a.jpg.html)

[rockshooter]

I would switch to a pointier (but not pointed) boolet. I ran into this same issue in 300 Blackout.
Loren

[soless]

I guess the mold just isn't cut out for my rifle then?

[RickinTN]

What bullet are you using? That is the way the Ranchdog 165 grain bullet fits in my many Marlin 336 rifles, in other words it doesn't.
Rick

[Yodogsandman]

I hope you found the problem with an un-primed, un-charged case prior to loading. If that boolit is powder coated, you changed the diameter of your nose when you coated it. Just seat it deeper. I had the same situation today. Powder coating increased my nose diameter from .349" to .357" on my .35 Whelen. I had to back off my overall length from 3.340" to 3.245". Also, if your using that boolit unsized, you better check the neck diameter to make sure your boolit will release from the chamber when fired. Take a measurement of the diameter from the neck of a case that was fired in YOUR rifle before resizing. That's the largest it should be with a boolit seated in it.

[soless]

What bullet are you using? That is the way the Ranchdog 165 grain bullet fits in my many Marlin 336 rifles, in other words it doesn't.
Rick

Yep. That would be the 165 Ranch Dog.


I hope you found the problem with an un-primed, un-charged case prior to loading. If that boolit is powder coated, you changed the diameter of your nose when you coated it. Just seat it deeper. I had the same situation today. Powder coating increased my nose diameter from .349" to .357" on my .35 Whelen. I had to back off my overall length from 3.340" to 3.245". Also, if your using that boolit unsized, you better check the neck diameter to make sure your boolit will release from the chamber when fired. Take a measurement of the diameter from the neck of a case that was fired in YOUR rifle before resizing. That's the largest it should be with a boolit seated in it.

This is an unprimed case without powder. I just held a lighter under the boolit to use the soot as a visual aid. Any chance of powder coating this is out the window. I might just have to stick to the Lee mold. What a bummer.

[HeavyMetal]

No simply find your correct seating depth with an un primed case when you have that reduce your powder charge by 5% from the published starting info for the 165 grain boolit and work up slowly to find your load.

Figuring out your throat / neck dimensions is a good idea as well, before you put powder behind that RD boolit!

[soless]

No simply find your correct seating depth with an un primed case when you have that reduce your powder charge by 5% from the published starting info for the 165 grain boolit and work up slowly to find your load.

Figuring out your throat / neck dimensions is a good idea as well, before you put powder behind that RD boolit!

That was my intent. I'm learning little by little. And thanks for all your input thus far.

[Yodogsandman]

Ok, guess I've got powder coating of the brain. You don't say what that's going to be shot out of. If a single shot or bolt action, just seat deeper. If that's for a lever gun with a tube magazine, you could seat deeper and plan on only using two cartridges in the gun at a time, that's if the second cartridge will function through the action from the magazine. You won't be able to crimp in the crimp groove and stacking them end to end in the magazine runs the risk of pushing the boolit back in the case.

Good on you for checking with the empty case!

[wrench man]

Winchester 94AE by chance?

[rhead]

The Lee mould does that in my Marlin. I trimmed a set of a hundred cases and re worked the load. In this case the original load turned out to still be safe. I will work up a near factory load after the garden quits taking up all my time. (I trimmed my cases back to 1.995" from 2.04" they feed, chamber and shoot fine. I keep the separate from my other 30-30 cases). It will not reduce the case capacity any more than seating the boolit enough deeper to chamber easily. it is more effort but you will be able to get a good crimp on the crimp groove.

[44man]

I have the same problem with one of my home made molds. I guessed wrong and the nose is too fat.
I lapped a smaller caliber Lee die to size the nose to .301" and it works fine now.
very easy to size just the nose and tap the boolit back out with a dowel.

[RickinTN]

A question here. For all those who seat the bullet deeper and for those who trim the cases to use the crimp groove. What about the generous portion of the bullet that is below the neck/shoulder junction of the case in this situation? Powder contamination from the lube, riveting of the bullet upon ignition, and reduced powder capacity? The reduced powder capacity doesn't really concern me as most cast loads aren't "full house" and loads should be worked up accordingly, but the other two are situations I certainly try to avoid.
Rick

[rhead]

The base of the boolit extending past the neck does not seem to cause a problem with accuracy all the time. The two loads i use in my 30-30s both still result in the same size groups in my Marlin. one is loaded with a moderate charge of 2400 to around fifteen hundred feet par second. the other is a very lightly compressed charge of 4350. The only way I know of to tell if the base of the boolit extending beyond the nect is to try it both ways and measure the results.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

It wouldn't happen to be a Marlin XLR? I once had a Marlin XLR in 35 Rem that had absolutely zero throat. I took it to a gunsmith and had him recut the chamber. Worked beautifully after that. I have heard of other people having issues with XLRs specifically. My theory is that Marlin did this deliberately to work better with their lever revolution ammo which has brass with a shorter neck.

[high standard 40]

I have that issue with some of my molds, I do as 44man does and resize the nose. This make the bullet a bore rider and helps align the bullet true with the bore. Accuracy usually improves with this approach, at least for me. We have all heard it said many times here that bullet fit to chamber is crucial. Sizing the bullet nose is often as important a step as sizing the bullet body. I would not trim the brass or seat deeper, I would size the bullet nose.

[gwpercle]

The Lee 170 gr flat point chambers just fine in my Winchester model 94. The nose must be OK for this model.

[GoodOlBoy]

That is just ODD. I have never had a 165, a 170, or even a 185 grain 30 caliber cast do that in any 30-30.

GoodOlBoy

[robroy]

IF that chambered easily AND did not pull the pill out of the case on extraction I'd start with a starting load and work it up at that OAL.

[soless]

Meh! I had the same luck with my Lee 170fp. O I had wild hair to re-chamber to 30-30AI. I think I'll still have the same problem though. Looks like I'll be shooting the heck out of those C word bullets for the time being.

[Motor]

If you use a Lee FCD would it realy matter where the "crimp groove" was? Cast boolit of course.

With the neck of the 30-30 being sooo long I find it hard to believe you could seat a bullet past it. LOL

I use the Lee 160 2R TL in 30-30. I made a boolit trim die to flatten the point when used in tube mag.

[alamogunr]

I had that same problem in a Marlin 30AW(336 for a with the Lee GB version of 311041PB boolet. I haven't had time to try seating deeper. I did try the loaded rounds in another 336 and a Win 94. Did the same in both of them.

It would seem that the mold casts a fat nose. Other than that it shoots pretty good, just hard to chamber. If I knew enough to draw it up, I would like to have a "bump" die in reverse. In other words a die to slim down the nose a tiny bit. Is that possible?

I would like to continue to crimp in the crimp groove.

[soless]

I have the same problem with one of my home made molds. I guessed wrong and the nose is too fat.
I lapped a smaller caliber Lee die to size the nose to .301" and it works fine now.
very easy to size just the nose and tap the boolit back out with a dowel.

I've been thinking About this. What type of sizer are you using? What do you do to prevent from sizing down too far?

[Silverboolit]

Have Tom at Accurate Molds make you a bore rider design. In my .308, all of the LEE 30 cals had to be seated too deeply for my tastes. The LEE molds had a nose section of .306-.308, didn't fit in my .300 land barrel too well.

[RickinTN]

"With the neck of the 30-30 being sooo long I find it hard to believe you could seat a bullet past it. LOL"

The NOE copy of that bullet is .460" from the bullet base to the top of the crimp groove, and I have to assume it is an accurate copy of the original. The neck of the 30-30 case is .426" so with it seated to the top of the crimp groove the top of the gas check is barely still in the neck, most of the gas check is below the neck. Seating any deeper will put the gas check and part of the lower lube groove below the case neck. I would have to re-measure as it's been a while since I've worked with my several Marlin 336 and 36 rifles with this bullet but I believe I remember to have slight engraving of the nose it required the gas check and the complete lower lube groove to be below the neck/shoulder junction. I don't mind having part of the gas check in the case but I certainly don't want all of it and then some of the bullet there.
Rick

[44man]

I've been thinking About this. What type of sizer are you using? What do you do to prevent from sizing down too far?
Just a Lee push through, started with a .285" and lapped it out. Adjust so you just size the nose. I lube a little so it will push back out. I keep a short piece of dowel in the container.
Works like a champ. .301" works in my Marlin.

[44man]

I also used an old RCBS expander die and made a brass flare tool to fit so I can flare the 30-30 cases. Brass might sound funny but it works. No wear on it at all.
Since RCBS dies made inaccurate .44 loads, I have made all kinds of stuff with the die bodies.
I use Hornady dies now for about everything.
My 30-30 has been doing under 1" at 100 with one of my boolits. Shot a can 3 times and all shots are touching, measures about 1/4". 3031 has been top dog with 4895 second.
I outside neck turned brass to get rid of run out. I went from over .022" run out to less then .002". I swear if I could see a penny at 100 I could hit it.
Can't shoot cast from a Micro groove, I beg to differ.
Sure wish I still had the .35 Rem.

[high standard 40]

Have Tom at Accurate Molds make you a bore rider design. In my .308, all of the LEE 30 cals had to be seated too deeply for my tastes. The LEE molds had a nose section of .306-.308, didn't fit in my .300 land barrel too well.

I had 4 different Lee molds in 30 caliber and all of their noses were under .300" I agree with getting a bore rider nose...........it's what I ultimately did.

[Larry Gibson]

Looks like, from the picture, you've 2 addition grooves still outside the case? If that's the case (pun) then seat the bullet to the next groove and crimp there.

Larry Gibson

[44man]

Ben made a great post on casting equipment about a super nose size die Buckshot made him, uses a collar size insert. Very smart, beats heck out of lapping a die.

[Ben]

Many thanks 44Man,

Here is the link to the article if anyone would like to see it :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?225875-Is-your-nose-too-big

[alamogunr]

Ben made a great post on casting equipment about a super nose size die Buckshot made him, uses a collar size insert. Very smart, beats heck out of lapping a die.

Thanks for that! I'll be contacting Rick very soon.

I have the Lyman 450, RCBS Lam2 and SAECO sizers. Is any one of them better for this application than the others?

[Ben]

Rick told me he had not fine tuned the process for the old Lyman 45, but for the RCBS LAM and the Lyman 450, YES !