Scavenging reloading supplies

[timtiminy]

Hey there guys, its my first post here. I am a serious gun owner turning reloader.
In my search for 9mm reloading components I have found it near impossible to find any powder :(
After reading about different handgun loads and seeing a lot of people using shotgun powder for their pistol loads it gave me an idea....
Maybe I can buy bulk Federal 12ga target loads and scavenge them for their powder and lead! 100rd pack at my local wallyworld is $19.96, so I decided to do the math...
if I did a 3.5gr powder charge I could get about 450 9mm loads and almost as many cast 115gr bullets with the lead shot from them.
Of course I would have to build up a load to fing out what would be the best charge per velocity.

I just thought I'd post this to see if anyone had the same idea and what you all think about the idea.
If anyone has done something of this sort and could give their insight that would be great!

I look forward to hearing from all you experienced folk!

[labradigger1]

Never thought about it. I got into reloading about 20 years ago, seriously got into it in 08 after componets got scarce.

Welcome to the madness. Let us know when you start saving money from handloading hee heee!
Lab

[Jupiter7]

Stop, that has bad news written all over it. Also, the lead shot in federal bulk packs is not anywhere near soft enough to obturate to seal the bore. Also being a small case as 9mm is, it is very sensitive to powder charge and bullet depth. This is no way to start your reloading career. Get manuals, follow them, be safe.

[Heavy lead]

I think that if my first experience with reloading would have been taking down shotshells, using the lead to cast boolits and using the unknown take down powder from them extrapolating the burn rate and working up a load for a 9mm no less (not one of the kinder cartridges for cast IMO) I would have quit shortly thereafter.
Yes it's possible, no I wouldn't do it short of the end of days and I could find no ammunition for my 9mm.

[timtiminy]

I figured maybe the shot would be the wrong density for casting bullets...
The powder however, I can't imagine being that different than what is used to reload shotgun shells... its not like its rifle powder I'm trying to experiment with in pistol loads. Shotgun powder has been well documented as being a great powder for pistol loads and is even has manufacture load data for certain shotgun powders to be used in pistol loads.
I'd be able to scavenge around 450 pistol loads from the 100 shotgun shells which ends up being $0.04 a powder charge if I am to only use just the powder from the shells.
Although I understand everyone's concerns but I see it as little different than if I had loaded 100 shot shells with bulk powder than decide I would rather have pistol cartridges so I pull apart the shells and put the powder to use in the handgun rounds.

[Bored1]

Key to your last statement is "certain" powders. No telling what's in the shotgun loads. Buy some powder that you know exactly what it is to use.

BEST ADVICE EVER IS TO FIND A LOCAL MENTOR WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING!!!

Even expensive powder is cheaper than the gun you plan on using, your hand, your face and appendages of everyone else unfortunate enough to be around when that boom happens!

[Digital Dan]

Tim, you're barking up a tree that has a lot of trouble staring down at you. Your interpretation or analysis of shotshell powders is misguided at best.

[Beagle333]

Powder is coming back. My LGS was loaded with BlueDot today. 'First time I've seen that in a year and a half.

But if you wanna do this...:popcorn:

[dakotashooter2]

While it may sound OK, factory shotshells don't use the same exact powders as those available to reloaders. They may be similar but they are tweaked to meet performance specs for a particular load. In other words in a particular load they may use what might be called H 110 but it's a special formulation of H 110 specifically made for that load.There is no way to know the exact burning rate and it may be faster or slower than canister H 110.

Honestly.. you could order 1# of powder and even with the shipping and hazmat fee it would be the same cost or cheaper than what you propose with less work.

The lead on the other hand isn't as much an issue. It can be mixed with a softer lead for the desired hardness.

[timtiminy]

Valid points. I guess I'll be waiting to get my hands on some powder that has load data for what I want to do.

[Bored1]

Where are you located? Posting would help get you a tip on a mentor or powder possibly.

[Pb2au]

Now in the days of powder drought, we as reloaders have to think on our feet.
1) information is king. I'm sure you've been advised to have a good reloading manual (Lyman's cast bullet manual for one). I own about 6 in various vintages.
2) from these manuals I built a cheat sheet of powders applicable for a given cartridge I'm working with.
3) That sheet goes with me anytime I'm in a shop with supplies. This way I can see what my options really are.
4) start cruising online. With some diligence and patience, you can score some powder.

Pulling down powder from shotgun shells I suppose could be doable, it would just be a challenge to find a point to start out. The lead for sure can be used.

[bedbugbilly]

Bored1 has a great suggestion - if you'd post your location, maybe someone here will be able to guide you to where you can get some powder. If there's nothing nearby - they can suggest a mail order possibility?

Welcome to the forum! Don't give up - be patient and you'll find some. In the meantime, study your manuals and get as much information as you can before you start. Figure out what you options are as far as powders and what you want to do. Good luck to you!

[C. Latch]

I understand the desire to scrounge and be resourceful. I once loaded .45 ACP with my .45 colt dies. I used a piece of rifle brass to bell my cases. Point being, I 'get' the desire to scrounge things.

But in your case, it's a horribly bad idea. You have no idea what sort of burn rate the powder in those shells has. Post your location - heck, someone might give you a half-pound of powder to get you started.

[JohnH]

I've melted lots of lead shot making boolits, it's quite fine for the task. But using powder in the way you suggest is a bad idea at best.

['74 sharps]

Using or buying powder in other than a factory sealed container is a bad idea...............

[MrWolf]

I wouldn't do it. To many variations on the powder as was stated previously. If you post your location, you may be near enough for someone to help get you started. I would rather spend a few extra bucks and know what I am getting than to take a chance like that. Good luck.

Ron

[dondiego]

If you were close to me I would trade you some powder and/or lead for some Federal shells. I wouldn't be afraid to do what you are proposing but I have 50 years of reloading experience under my belt.

[1Shirt]

Bad Idea!
1Shirt!

[bbqncigars]

An interesting idea, but only true desperation would lead to its employ. Gunbot (http://www.gunbot.net/reloading/powder/) is your friend in regards to components.

[scarry scarney]

Timtiminy

as Bored1 asked, where are you located? If you are near me, I can get you a little bit of powder to get you started.

[timtiminy]

Im located in Southern California. Apple Valley to be exact. There are a few shops here but I have only seen rifle powders and talking to the stores its looking like a **** shoot for them on what powders they'll be able to get in the near future.

[dubber123]

Interesting idea. Technically everyone who is steering you clear of using the powder is right. That said, I doubt it is any faster burning than Bullseye, which has plenty of data available. Starting well low and working up would not scare me in the least. I am assuming just functionable plinker/practice ammo is youl goal, not flat out scorchers. Best idea ever? maybe not, assured disaster in the making? probably not that either.

As suggested, post up your locale, and I bet enough components to get you rolling will appear.

[daniel lawecki]

If it was that safe and easy people would have started a thread. I wouldn't want to be standing next to you at the range.

[bangerjim]

Bad........BAD..........BAD idea!!!!!!!!! Probably the worst I have read about on here!

You do not know what powder is in there. 9mm is perhaps the trickiest/hardest cal to load due to extremely low head space and over all case volume. Even with known powders, 9 is still VERY tricky. You just might get by with 38SPL or 45LC with that pulled powder (big forgiving cases), but I still would NEVER use it in anything but the shells it comes in.

Shot is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to hard to cast with, Use it to alloy with pure to get what you want/need.

But do NOT take 12ga shells apart for the parts!!!!!!!!!!!

As said above.....let us know when you will be at the range........we will stay home!

Please.......forget it and keep looking for KNOWN pistol and shotgun powders IN BOTTLES with KNOWN LOAD DATA.

Like said above........if it was a good idea.......it would already be all over this forum!!!!!!!

bangerjim

[Silverboolit]

The three best words for new reloaders is.....FIND A MENTOR!!! Not to demean you, but knowledge is acquired over time. Use the knowledge of others to help you get going.

[DeanWinchester]

This is interesting. Potentially deadly but very interesting.

In a situation where NOTHING is available one could take small critters with a .308 using '0' or maybe even '00' buckshot by taking the shell apart using a round ball for a projectile and about 5g of whatever powder happens to be inside. All dependent on overcoming the need for another primer.

Ill have to file this away in my "Hey McGuyver, hold my beer and watch me go" folder.

[dubber123]

Well, all the talk of impending doom has peaked my interest. To the point I can tell you 19 Federal ElCheapo low brass shells yields 48 nice shiny boolits from my favorite BRP 360640 mold, and enough powder to load about 35 rounds. I didn't feel like cutting a full box apart, but it appears 1 box of cheap 12 Ga. shells yields enough lead and powder to make a 50 round box of 9mm's. I wonder how they will shoot? I still won't recommend this, but I may as well satisfy my curiosity.

[canyon-ghost]

Being in Texas, it's far between places to get powder. I drove around 75 miles one day just to check out a new powder shop. And, I'm a poor boy, not much money in the budget. You may have to expand your search. 9mm is pretty good with Bullseye, Unique, and a few others. Get yourself a good reloading manual as the guys suggest. I just shot 60 rounds of nines through my XDm-9 today. Had a blast. I ended up pulling bullets at one point, 9mm got way too hot, way too fast for me. I'd been reloading for 8 or 9 years then. They can build pressure way faster than you think.

Good Luck,
Ron

[country gent]

Several things are issues here that can lead to disaster. first is shotgun shot is ussually high in antimony lead and tin percentages are lower than most alloy recipes maening you may end up with a brittle bullet and other issues. Casting straight lead shot can be an issue also. I have cast reclaimed shot from a trap range into ingots for them to sell to members. Shot mixed with lead or ww is a source of antimony though it does have its place. As to the powder that is just alot that can go haywire and bite you. FActory ammo isnt loaded with commercial canistor grades of powder, normally a delivery of powder arrives ( sometines as large as a rail roa tanker car) and samples pulled a closed bomb test and others are ran to determine burn rate and pressures generated. It is then tested and loaded to find what charge gives the desired results in the appropiate calibers. We dont have access to this information or means to test it for the information. With some powders pressures arent a smooth curve thru the range there can be spikes and jumps that are issues. Using powder salvaged from 308 rounds and carrefully pulling bullets and wieghing charges then re using the surpluss in 308 rounds can be done, I perfer to have some known data to work with though. Going from shotgun shells to small capcity hand gun rounds is asking for trouble as the smaller capcity means pressures will form quicker. Ther is powder available its becoming more so. In 9mm look for bullseye unique 231 Theres quite a few that are suitable with data available for 9mm

[troyboy]

Dubber123 let us know. No different from milsurp other then starting from scratch. It would have to be "just because" though. Cheaper and safer to just buy a box and call it a day. Supplies will come back eventually.

[5 RING]

Timtiminy, if you plan on going this route. I’d like to have your Name, Address and Date of birth so I can put a life insurance policy on you. The way I figure it if you do go down that road, I’ll be sitting high on the hog in a week or two. :kidding:


But seriously don’t do it. Using a unknown powder is just asking for trouble.

[dubber123]

Dubber123 let us know. No different from milsurp other then starting from scratch. It would have to be "just because" though. Cheaper and safer to just buy a box and call it a day. Supplies will come back eventually.

Will do.. They are all sized and lubed. With all the talk of excessive hardness, I guess I would have expected them to be lighter than they were. They actually ended up a few grains heavier than my normal WW mix. I have a starting load about nailed down. I'll try and get some loaded tomorrow afternoon.

[WallyM3]

My money's on dubber.

[dubber123]

My money's on dubber.


You might be betting on a 3 legged horse with asthma, but you will be one of the first to know. :)

[dubber123]

Wally, you might be in the money on this one.. I didn't feel like waiting, so I screwed together a single round to try before work. I settled on 2.7 grains of the mystery powder, based on Bullseye as a burn rate. 2.8 is listed as a start charge with a 147 cast in Lymans book. Mine weighed 155 grains, quite heavy for a 9mm.

Case was WIN, Winchester standard primer, 2.7 grs. mystery powder, 155 Gr. BRP 360640 RF.1.078 OAL. I paced off 30 feet and took a shot at a Arizona tea can left handed, (I'm a righty). Result, a bang, an ejected case, and slide locked rearwards on an empty gun. 1 boolit hole slightly left of center. The ejected case was only about 2 feet from me, and looks completely normal. I'll load some more and try a group after work if I can.

I am NOT recommending this, but will report my findings as I get them. I can only take cell phone pics and have no way of posting them unless some kind soul is willing to PM me their # to send them to.

[762 shooter]

And there goes Dubber123 jumping out of the box.

Good show.

762

[DeanWinchester]

You're brave man Dubber.
I don't think I can bring myself to try this with a 9mm but the more I think about it, I think I will try buckshot I mentioned earlier.

[captaint]

Tim - As you have seen, working on handloading with ANY components that are unknown is really a bad idea. Welcome to handloading my friend !! That said, Welcome to the board. Lots of great folks here. Also, you might try printing out a two page thing called "powder burn rate chart". You can google it just that way, I think. There are about 35 powders between Bullseye and Herco. That leaves a LOT of room for shopping for pistol powders. Most of the ones listed are still available and generally suited for pistol loads. Keep trying the local stores. You will find some before long. Never give up !! Mike

[DeanWinchester]

I believe we've all made it clear it's a bad idea. BUT, I think if you proceed with the assumption you're working with Norma R1 powder you should be okay. Lol!

[dudel]

I'll admit to taking shot shells apart for the components. The only component I save is the shot. It's for making 38 Spl and 357 Mag shotshells. I don't need a 25# bag of #7 shot; but taking a few shotshells apart gives me the shot I need for making the shotshells. It's a good way of trying different sized shot, without having to purchase pounds of it. Precision Reloading even makes a handy tool for breaking down the shells if you don't want to save the hulls.

Hull and wad is discarded, powder disposed of, and primer made inert.

[dubber123]

Ok, I finished up early at work, and bailed when the boss had his back turned.. :) I washed most of the dirt off my glasses and took my precision crafted mystery ammo out for a test run. I ran 1 across the chrono, 852 fps. Respectable for a 155 gr. boolit, but not surprising at all.

I set a hand scribbled target up at 20 yds. and rested my wrists off Ye Olde Barracudas roof. The next 4 shot right to POA, and made a 1.58" group. This gun is capable of better, but I'm way rusty. I may load up some more and try later when it's cooler and I have better light.

[dubber123]

I believe we've all made it clear it's a bad idea. BUT, I think if you proceed with the assumption you're working with Norma R1 powder you should be okay. Lol!


Thats the train of thought I am following. R-1 and Bullseye are at 3 numbers apart on a 246 place burn chart in front of me. Basically identical. Yes, using a burn rate chart for load data is not recommended, but it sure gives you a good idea of what you are dealing with. If you plan for worst case scenario, and then subtract a little more, I feel perfectly safe working up a load. This was done with "junk" reclaimed components. How many threads dealing with poor shooting 9mm's do we see? Lots. This one just shot in 1.5" at 20 yds. I bet that would make a lot of 9mm casters on here happy.

[Old Caster]

I deal with checking velocities on pull down powder all the time and if you follow procedure it is pretty simple and quite safe. I always start with 2 grains of powder with a 148 grain bullet in a model 27 Smith. Sometimes the bullet won't make it out of the barrel and I have to up it just to get a velocity reading. Obviously don't put your chronograph up until things are running in a reasonable fashion. The thing I noticed that could get a person in trouble the most is how a powder will act as though it has a different burn rate depending on the caliber. I once checked a powder that I eventually decided was just a bit slower than Unique in the 38 and it was quite predictable but when I went to the 9mm and 45 I expected that it might not work at all because of its bulk but did not follow Unique loads and found that it acted close to Bullseye in those cases. If I had thought that because it acted slower than Unique in the 38 it would do the same in a 9 and 45, I could have gotten in trouble. If you always start with a ridiculously low amount in each caliber and work up it is simple other than possibly having to pound a bullet out of a barrel and making your gun dirty before getting up to speed.

[dubber123]

I deal with checking velocities on pull down powder all the time and if you follow procedure it is pretty simple and quite safe. I always start with 2 grains of powder with a 148 grain bullet in a model 27 Smith. Sometimes the bullet won't make it out of the barrel and I have to up it just to get a velocity reading. Obviously don't put your chronograph up until things are running in a reasonable fashion. The thing I noticed that could get a person in trouble the most is how a powder will act as though it has a different burn rate depending on the caliber. I once checked a powder that I eventually decided was just a bit slower than Unique in the 38 and it was quite predictable but when I went to the 9mm and 45 I expected that it might not work at all because of its bulk but did not follow Unique loads and found that it acted close to Bullseye in those cases. If I had thought that because it acted slower than Unique in the 38 it would do the same in a 9 and 45, I could have gotten in trouble. If you always start with a ridiculously low amount in each caliber and work up it is simple other than possibly having to pound a bullet out of a barrel and making your gun dirty before getting up to speed.

And there you go. I assumed Bullseye speed, and in this case, it was pretty close.

[Harter66]

Just 1 more factor in the powder. That powder in the shot shells is intended to be zero (or very nearly) space under the wad which may be a design of long ridgid or high compression that allows the crimp to open before the wad bottoms against the shot charge . They may be a near solid wad (not likely in trap dove loads). In any event your putting in a completely different environment w/an air space and solid projectile.
No offense intended to those w/more knowledge, but look at Trail Boss. It spikes fast and will go well beyond safe pressures w/to much space and w/o enough. dabbling in BP has me thinking if you have an unknown powder in a zero space loading then it should always be treated that way until it is a known and proper data is available. Taking it to the other extreme what if you assume it is fast like R1 or Bullseye and it turns out to be more like Steel ,4227or H110 (I know probably only in a 410 on the last 2) . You stick a couple of bullets and then the thing spikes and all of the sudden your bullet sticking 5kpsi load jumps to 45kspi and your BHP Glock-nades . Actually possible w/H110.

Which Apple Valley ? There are a couple of areas and a town in SoCal. I might be presueded to road trip soon.

[DeputyDog25]

Make sure you check Powder Bot everyday, several times a day and you will find the powder you need. The lead is easy, plenty of honest people on this site to get lead from. Welcome aboard, we are glad you're here.

[dubber123]

I wish I wasn't as rusty guys, my shooting is just not up to par., I just ran out and fired group #2, still 20 yds. wrists off the car roof. I knew it wasn't going to be good, and it wasn't, 2.5", with 4 in 1.9". All fed and ejected as normal. I chronoed my normal load of 3.5 grs. of Green Dot, and it was faster by almost 60 fps. than the reclaimed component load. I wanted a load that approximated a decent .38 Spl, and either of these do that. So far, not a thing gives me cause for concern with the scavenged components.

[45-70 Chevroner]

Listen to the people that have already posted. They know what they are talking about. This is an bad (mistake) accident looking for a place to happen.

[Old Caster]

There is no powder that you can load too lightly and somehow blow up your gun. Only if you put in too much considering weight of bullet or fire one behind one already stuck in the barrel. The idea that a slow powder like H110 can detonate is not correct and has been proven over and over. Back when powder manufacturers weren't sure, they went into a CYA mode and said don't do it and have since changed. A slow powder like 110 if loaded too lightly will sometimes foof instead of explode and leave a bullet in the barrel so the next one that does fire correctly will be doing it behind a clogged barrel. Obviously by what has been written so far the OP is smarter than that. Dubber, just remember to start over every time you change calibers.

[dubber123]

There is no powder that you can load too lightly and somehow blow up your gun. Only if you put in too much considering weight of bullet or fire one behind one already stuck in the barrel. The idea that a slow powder like H110 can detonate is not correct and has been proven over and over. Back when powder manufacturers weren't sure, they went into a CYA mode and said don't do it and have since changed. A slow powder like 110 if loaded too lightly will sometimes foof instead of explode and leave a bullet in the barrel so the next one that does fire correctly will be doing it behind a clogged barrel. Obviously by what has been written so far the OP is smarter than that. Dubber, just remember to start over every time you change calibers.

I doubt this will happen very often, if ever again with me. I have plenty of components in stock, and certainly didn't need to do it this time, I just did it to prove a point, that if you take the time to look at the facts, not just guess, or not do something because so and so told you, many things are safely possible.

[RG1911]

There are a *lot* of powders that will work well in the 9mm. One of my favorites was Alcan AL-7, which I don't think is available anymore. Others are Red Dot, Bullseye, and Unique. Probably Titegroup, Titewad, and Accurate No. 2. Usually some place has at least one of these in stock.

The best cast bullet I used in the 9mm is the Lyman 356402 124-grain truncated cone.

Welcome to the wonderful world of reloading.

Cheers,
Richard

[DeanWinchester]

There are a *lot* of powders that will work well in the 9mm. One of my favorites was Alcan AL-7, which I don't think is available anymore. Others are Red Dot, Bullseye, and Unique. Probably Titegroup, Titewad, and Accurate No. 2. Usually some place has at least one of these in stock.

The best cast bullet I used in the 9mm is the Lyman 356402 124-grain truncated cone.

Welcome to the wonderful world of reloading.

Cheers,
Richard



i use use that same boolit too. It's awesome!
I've never used Alcan but I too am using an unavailable powder with it. I was given several pounds of HS-5. They work extremely well together.

[dubber123]

Still not out of these premium components ;), so I loaded some and tried another group, total group size at 20 yds., 1.4", 4 in 1.25". This is very close to what my regular load does, and the difference is probably how rusty I am. If any of you 9mm guys can get a BRP 360640 mold, I highly recommend it. :)

[timtiminy]

Which Apple Valley ? There are a couple of areas and a town in SoCal. I might be presueded to road trip soon.

The Town of Apple Valley. Near Victorville, in the Mojave Desert.

[DrCaveman]

Wow. Timtiminy, i think you're doing FINE. You asked a pretty reasonable question. It reminds me of a thread i started where i questioned the necessity of resizing 45 acp brass since i was battling swage-down from lee FCD. Sure, i learned many things from SOME responses but the asses requesting my address so they could avoid me at the range were beyond useless

Ill side with the people recommending to not try this experiment with 9mm. As stated, 38spl and 45 colt are much more forgiving, especially in strong (ruger etc) guns. It aint that hard to figure out a powder burn rate if you have taken some wise steps and learn to be slow, cautious, and observant

People: ever heard of proof loads? Every gun you own was shot at least once with loads rated for higher pressure than cartridge is rated. It dont make it onto the shelves otherwise

Tim, be careful. And welcome to the board. Pay attention, wear a thick skin, and dont be afraid to ask these kind of questions

As for you stating that you can find powder... HA! That is NOT the case anywhere near here. And i suspect it is because of Gunbot and the like that NONE of my LGS's can get their hands on the powder in bulk...which would save everbody shipping and hazmat fees on small orders... We got a bunch of wannabe dealers who have more damn powder in their garage than the frickin stores do. Silly

[snuffy]

There's a whole bunch of wrong guesses in this thread. There's a bunch of powder we use to load pistol and revolver loads, that is also used in many shotshell loads.

The opposite is also correct, shotshell powders work well in handgun loads. There's several though that have no dual usage. I've never seen a load for bullseye for shotgun or WW-231. However red-dot IS used in both. Even in 30-06 light cast loads.

Those el cheapo Federal target load powder is almost certainly in the burn rate of red-dot, clays, 700-X, nitro-100 and other fast burn rate target shotshell powder. The procss dubber is using is exactly what I would use with a mystery powder. The one thing that is known is the current usage. Starting with the fastest powder that we can get,, bullseye, with a starting load, is safe and will tell you that the mystery powder is most likely a bit slower.

If times were tough, and I still had primers and lead, I would NOT hesitate to use that salvaged powder.

Now for the shot. Shotshell shot is all over the spectrum as to how hard it is. The cheaper the finished shell, the softer the shot. You do NOT get the super hard shot in an economy ,(cheep), loads like the federal 100 packs. it's real soft stuff, no more that 2-3% antimony and a trace of tin. It might be too soft to work well for 9mm boolits, without adding some tin and antimony.

Shells like the Remington STS, Winchester AA, or Federal gold medal, all have very hard high antimony pellets that resist the deformation caused by the sudden acceleration and the trip through a choke. That lead all by itself would work well for 9mm boolits.

I say the above coming from one who has over 50 years reloading just about everything. At first, it was shotshells for hunting ducks and geese. It was at a time that was a transition from paper shells, and fiber/paper wads into plastic sells and plastic one-piece wads.

After that I got envolved in handgun metallic silhouette shooting. The equipment race set in, I was soon loading for a wildcat 7X47* shell for use in a single shot XP-100 Remington bolt action handgun. Also some 35 Remington for a TC contender that would take apart a lever gun if they were fired in one.

[Bullwolf]

I've never seen a load for bullseye for shotgun


If times were tough, and I still had primers and lead, I would NOT hesitate to use that salvaged powder.


Sorry for the partial quote, but I was really only replying to those two lines.

Older Hercules/Alliant manuals had 12 gauge loads that used Bullseye. There is probably a good reason why they don't any longer, but the data exists.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z222/Shoot2reload/Bullseyeloads.jpg

I agree with you Snuffy, times would have to be extremely hard before I tore down shotgun shells to salvage the powder and shot for use in other cartridges, but if things were that bad I would not hesitate to do so.

While I do understand how to go about doing it safely, it's not something that I would recommend, suggest, or trust someone else to perform.




- Bullwolf

[Harter66]

Probably wouldn't be too bad in my stash #6 and up is definately Unique and 8-9 are definately Red Dot , if its steel it's 800x or 4756........for now.

[dubber123]

I can tell you that despite it working in my limited testing, whatever the low end Federals use for powder does not resemble any canister powder I have ever bought or seen. It "looks" like the cheapest stuff they could buy to make usable shells. It obviously is still repeatable and consistent within a range, or they couldn't use it. I just wouldn't say it is high quality stuff.

[AJG]

Scavenging shotgun shells for powder and lead is completely safe as I started it on a regular basis.
I live in an latin country in South America where powder is not legally availlable but all other reloading components yes. So scavenging is the only way there is to reload in my country.
I just recently started reloading as slowly arrives my equipment. Rigth now I am set up for 9 mm Luger but soon will be able to reload 38 spl and 357 magnum. Till now I have reloaded about 80 9 mm shells from scavenged shotshell powder.
Here is the math:
Currency= Pesos (which is any given currency unit in order to disguise/hyde my location).
1 12 ga shotshell costs 3000 Pesos. I get about 6 9mm charges from 1 12 ga shotshell brand Orbea. I use WSP (Winchester) primers and FMJ Winchester 115 grain bullets (for now. I am going to cast all bullets since it is way cheaper and lead is readily availlable). I have an S&W SD9VE 9mm pistol which cycles reliably on an powder charge of 4.3 grain (Lymans Reload Manual puts as minimal charge 4.5 grains but this shotshell powder is a little quicker burning as Unique). I have an 17 lbs Galloway spring in that pistol. 3.5 grain does not eject all cartridges. 4 grain does eject all cartridges but gives a few stove pipes. 4.4 grain cycles perfectly but as powder is rare and has to be economizised I settled on 4.3 grains. Today I shot a middle size ostrich with my 4.3 grain reloads from a distance of 110 meters on the field. I never expected to hit him but he dropped at the spot (I guess lung shot). That gives me lots of respect for the 9mm round since it seemed have passed rigth through the ostrich (although I could not find an Exit wound it had blood stream on the entrance and Exit wound, so there must be an Exit wound). To be on the safe side I contacted Nobel Sports and another shotshell manufacturer whose shotshells I scavenge and they inclusive gave me an burn rate Chart and both powders (as well those argentinian shotshells) are very Close to Unique from Alliant Powders in burn rate (they actually burn a Little quicker). So if you have Unique reload data you should be safe to use it but have to download a Little bit (allways work your loads up).
Scavenging shotshells for powder and lead is completely safe as Long as you know what you are doing and investigate lots on the Internet.
Scavenging shotshells is the only source of powder lots of People have but it is a viable and feasable source (but Labor intensive).

[GhostHawk]

I hate to see the day it gets that bad here, but it is a good skill set to have in the toolbox IMO.

While I have not robbed shotshells for powder (sitting on 16 lbs of Red Dot) I have swapped a couple boxes of loads out.

Cheap walmart federal 7.5 shot 100 packs sell for 24$ and change.

Cut off the top, save the shot for a rainy day, insert a Lee 7/8 oz slug, add overshot card, marked S for slug and glue into place with some thinned white glue.

Have not made it to the range with them yet but they cause no problems cycling through my Rem 870 smoothbore. Also mexican matched 1 box of buckshot pretty much the same way.

[Shiloh]

Also being a small case as 9mm is, it is very sensitive to powder charge and bullet depth. This is no way to start your reloading career. Get manuals, follow them, be safe.

Sage advice. Manuals are available and cheap. There is load data available from powder distributors.
Use it.

Shiloh

[HangFireW8]

Scavenging shotgun shells for powder and lead is completely safe as I started it on a regular basis.
I live in an latin country in South America where powder is not legally availlable but all other reloading components yes. So scavenging is the only way there is to reload in my country.

Welcome to the board, AJG! That's quite a good first post.

While I don't recommend it for beginners at all, I've bought pull down powder from the usual sources and used it in things they don't provide loads for, and that's really no different from what we're talking about here. You might say, no, the wholesaler provides me with some minimal amount of information on loads or powder speed, like "a little slower than Red Dot" or "Use 4895 but reduce by weight 15%" and, as always, "work up". Well, it is the same, because I have a reference load to work from - the shotshell I pulled it down from.

I have pulled down a few from a pile of shotshells given to me by an aging sportsman, and am keeping the pile primarily as a secondary reloading supply (and secondarily if I have a primary need for a bunch of shotshells). 12 gauge is a big hunk of ammo, a typical 1-1/4oz bird shot load has enough powder and lead to feed 4 9mm 124gr rounds, maybe 5 if going to 110grain boolits in light loads.

If you weigh the powder and shot and measure the powder volume involved, and know your shotshell reloading, it's not hard to back figure what speed powder you are working with, and then work up loads accordingly.

Just like the rest of reloading, you make it, so you're responsible for it. Like I said, I don't recommend it for beginners. If I couldn't buy powder, though, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment.

[fredj338]

Old thread but thought I would chime in. Is it safe to scavenge sg powder for pistol use, sure if you know what you are doing. In a SHTF situation, unused sg shells, like 16ga or 20ga, could be pulled down, powder for 4-5 9mm, & the lead melted for bullets. You could get a load dialed in in as little as 10rds using a chrono, start with Bullseye data & work up in 1/10gr increments. Not much diff than working with a new powder & no published data. Just not something I want to do as an every day thing. Keep enough powder on hand so you can shoot carefree for 2-3yrs is the best solution.

[AJG]

Thanks Hangfirew8 for your Invitation.

While I am still waiting for my reloading Equipment for 38 spl/357 mag I became quiete profficient in reloading 9mm Luger scavenging shotshells. Till now I have made about 175 reloads and relaoading has become a bit boring so nice everything is working. I ordered an RCBS die set (taper die, not roll crimp. I prefer taper crimp since it supposed makes Shells last longer when the metal is not bent each reload. The crimp groove on the bullet can be used as lube groove when taper crimp is used instead roll crimp) for 38 spl/357 and I ordered lots of Lee molds (a 124 grain Truncated Cone for 9mm, a 140 grain SWC for 38spl/357mag, a 57.5 cal round ball mold for Buck&Ball for 20 ga, a #4 buckshot mold and an Lee mold caliber 31.5 for #1 buckshot for 12 ga as well an Lee 7/8 oz slug mold for 12 ga). In the future I will order as well an 105 grain SWC Lee mold for 38spl/357mag in order to save lead since I realize each shotshell has about 25 grain powder and 490 grain lead so powder is enough there for 5 reloads but with an 140 grain Semi Wad Cutter I have not enough lead to melt in for not even 4 shots. Till now I collected wheelwheigths but demand for lead rose locally and half of the wheelweigths I realised are zinc, aluminum or iron so they are useless (today I melted abou 11 Kg of wheelweigths and realised this Problem of Zn, Al and Fe non melting weigths. Nevertheless I got 10 Kg of supposed lead Ingots which will give about 1071 bullets of 140 grain). I hope all was melting is really lead and nothing else.
As well I am going to empty birdshot Shells to transform the lead into Buck&Ball (George Washington) loads. 12 ga 7/8 oz slug behind a few 31.5 cal (up to the original 1 oz 1/8 load) #1 buckshot for 12 ga (with rifled choke or modified) and for 20 ga one cal 57.5 (cal 58 musket round ball) behind a few #4 buckshot balls (again just up to original load of 1 oz 1/8). Locally hog hunting is still done (ist not an normal hog but an so called wild pecari which is native here although decimated since nobody respects hunting seasons here and just Shooting all they can).
As well in order to Experiment with 38spl/357mag reloads I purchased an Pietta model 1873 in 357 Magnum Revolver (actually imported and assembled by Heritage in the USA but Pietta told me it is entirely made in Italy and the only difference between their other models and those from Cabelas, Cimmarron, etc is that they are assembled by Heritage). So I hope that is a Quality Revolver and Long Lasting since locally its Price (was on sale) is 700$ while in the US These can be had for about max 400$ (so you see all things are doubling at least here but normally have the triple of the Price if not more). If the Thing breaks, no warranty (throw away and buy new).
For example one 9mm costs locally 4000 Pesos and one 357 Magnum around 6200 Pesos. I calculated one 9mm (with cast bullet) will cost me about 1200 Pesos and one lead cast and reloaded scavenging shotshells 357 Magnum cartridge will cost me about 1500 Pesos (if used 6 grains on Titegroup or Unique equivalent powder of the shotshells). One shotshell costs about 3000 pesos and gives 5 9mm loads and about 4 full power 357 mag loads being 38 spl more cost effective. That is about 75% to 80% savings (huge amount). I just recommend scavenging shotshells since at least locally it is the only alternative and seems to be very cost effective (for example the brasilian CBC powder is about 15$ for 100 gram which translates to 68$ per Pound. It is not availlable legally but Price can be found on the Internet) even more than buying powder if we could do it.
I have a question (if anybody has experience with this): The Lee 105 grain Diameter .358 semi wadcutter lead bullet: can I shoot it with 9mm? (it seems to say something like "works fine with 9mm Luger" on Lee Webpage but I am worried about the other 9mm molds being .356 Diameter and this one is .358 Diameter). All my cast bullets are going to be lubed with Lithium grease (automobil grease), Petroleum jelly or Vaseline (I have no experience yet in this matter yet).

[salpal48]

Looks like another brainstorm in the works

[Wayne Smith]

Thanks Hangfirew8 for your Invitation.

While I am still waiting for my reloading Equipment for 38 spl/357 mag I became quiete profficient in reloading 9mm Luger scavenging shotshells. Till now I have made about 175 reloads and relaoading has become a bit boring so nice everything is working. I ordered an RCBS die set (taper die, not roll crimp. I prefer taper crimp since it supposed makes Shells last longer when the metal is not bent each reload. The crimp groove on the bullet can be used as lube groove when taper crimp is used instead roll crimp) for 38 spl/357 and I ordered lots of Lee molds (a 124 grain Truncated Cone for 9mm, a 140 grain SWC for 38spl/357mag, a 57.5 cal round ball mold for Buck&Ball for 20 ga, a #4 buckshot mold and an Lee mold caliber 31.5 for #1 buckshot for 12 ga as well an Lee 7/8 oz slug mold for 12 ga). In the future I will order as well an 105 grain SWC Lee mold for 38spl/357mag in order to save lead since I realize each shotshell has about 25 grain powder and 490 grain lead so powder is enough there for 5 reloads but with an 140 grain Semi Wad Cutter I have not enough lead to melt in for not even 4 shots. Till now I collected wheelwheigths but demand for lead rose locally and half of the wheelweigths I realised are zinc, aluminum or iron so they are useless (today I melted abou 11 Kg of wheelweigths and realised this Problem of Zn, Al and Fe non melting weigths. Nevertheless I got 10 Kg of supposed lead Ingots which will give about 1071 bullets of 140 grain). I hope all was melting is really lead and nothing else.
As well I am going to empty birdshot Shells to transform the lead into Buck&Ball (George Washington) loads. 12 ga 7/8 oz slug behind a few 31.5 cal (up to the original 1 oz 1/8 load) #1 buckshot for 12 ga (with rifled choke or modified) and for 20 ga one cal 57.5 (cal 58 musket round ball) behind a few #4 buckshot balls (again just up to original load of 1 oz 1/8). Locally hog hunting is still done (ist not an normal hog but an so called wild pecari which is native here although decimated since nobody respects hunting seasons here and just Shooting all they can).
As well in order to Experiment with 38spl/357mag reloads I purchased an Pietta model 1873 in 357 Magnum Revolver (actually imported and assembled by Heritage in the USA but Pietta told me it is entirely made in Italy and the only difference between their other models and those from Cabelas, Cimmarron, etc is that they are assembled by Heritage). So I hope that is a Quality Revolver and Long Lasting since locally its Price (was on sale) is 700$ while in the US These can be had for about max 400$ (so you see all things are doubling at least here but normally have the triple of the Price if not more). If the Thing breaks, no warranty (throw away and buy new).
For example one 9mm costs locally 4000 Pesos and one 357 Magnum around 6200 Pesos. I calculated one 9mm (with cast bullet) will cost me about 1200 Pesos and one lead cast and reloaded scavenging shotshells 357 Magnum cartridge will cost me about 1500 Pesos (if used 6 grains on Titegroup or Unique equivalent powder of the shotshells). One shotshell costs about 3000 pesos and gives 5 9mm loads and about 4 full power 357 mag loads being 38 spl more cost effective. That is about 75% to 80% savings (huge amount). I just recommend scavenging shotshells since at least locally it is the only alternative and seems to be very cost effective (for example the brasilian CBC powder is about 15$ for 100 gram which translates to 68$ per Pound. It is not availlable legally but Price can be found on the Internet) even more than buying powder if we could do it.
I have a question (if anybody has experience with this): The Lee 105 grain Diameter .358 semi wadcutter lead bullet: can I shoot it with 9mm? (it seems to say something like "works fine with 9mm Luger" on Lee Webpage but I am worried about the other 9mm molds being .356 Diameter and this one is .358 Diameter). All my cast bullets are going to be lubed with Lithium grease (automobil grease), Petroleum jelly or Vaseline (I have no experience yet in this matter yet).

If you look in the lube section you will find many recipes that are more than adequate and easy to make. If you know a machinist or can get to know one many things can be made that will help your progress. If you are serious about casting a lubesizer should be on your list, the machinist can make the dies if necessary.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

I see a lot of pistol powder out there now start looking for it

[AJG]

Dear Luckydawg13 and John Wayne,

Remember: I am NOT located in Northamerica. So I can not shop for powders and other supplies.
Powder is NOT commercially availlable where I am located so scavenging shotshells for powder and lead is the ONLY alternative for someone located in Southamerica for reloading. But it is a feasable alternative. Reloading supplies (except powder) are commercially availlable (like primers) but powder is strictly forbidden by law (even black powder). However they may Change law in the future.
As well I detected each shotshell brand has another powder so for example the spanish (from Spain) brand Saga has powder similar to Unique as I stated previously (pistol cycles reliably with 4.3 grains of that powder). But I realised the argentinian shotshell brand Orbea has an powder with quicker burn because the pistol cycles reliably by 3.9 grains so that gets Close to reloading data for Titegroup. With that issue it is allways a must to work up the loads (but all shotgun loads generally are around Unique or burn a bit quicker. About allways similar powder if powder weigth of shotshells are similar).

Yes I guess I have to order an Lee sizing die for 9mm, 357 mag/38spl. I just did not want to destroy the nice form the Lee molds throw the bullets when I resize (it destroys the lube grooves on an tumble lube design and obviously damages drive bands and grooves).
But anybody has experience Shooting the Lee 105 grain 358 Diameter SWC "as cast" trough an 9mm pistol (without resizing)? If possible I want to shoot the bullets without resizing.

[dondiego]

If you find 12 gauge shotshells with payloads over 1 and one eighth ounces, they will most likely contain a slower burn rate powder. Those shells labeled "target" or with shot weights at 1 ounce or less will most likely contain a faster burning powder. I wish that I could send you a pound of Bullseye powder as I just bought an 8 pound keg. Good luck to you!

[AJG]

Dear Dondiego, thanks for your Kind offer of sending me some powder but I will not induce you to smuggeling (although you could send it to my mail forewarder in Miami).

I guess it is better to live with my Situation (no powder allowed by law) as "every challenge is another opportunity"! If we used to live under These circumstances we certainly will manage to live under USSR type rulings or other restrictive governenmets (like Antichrist for those of you who are Christians; as I am Christian as well). So happy exercise regards the Reloading Sports (thats why reloading is called a "Sport" I guess).

Yes the Orbea is 1 oz 1/8 (faster burning powder. No data whatsoever on the box except it has 32 grams of shot) and the Saga is 524 grain or 34 grams and actually states on their box it uses single base smokeless CSB powders (it is a French-Spanish powder), has a velocity of 440 meter por second and a pressure of 665 Kg/cm2 (sorry no imperial measures). The Saga kicks a whole lot more.

Regards lube. Locally no beeswax nor any Kind of Alox is availlable (candles are availlable). But yes Vaseline, Petroleum Jelly and Lithium and calcium based grease is availlable (those greases withstand very high temperatures and are made by Texaco Oil company).

I recently bought a box of 500 12 ga shotshells (orbea) for reloading at about 0.55$ each (yes over here we pay 0.55$ for each 12 ga shotshell out of dove hunting season. In dove hunting season you are lucky if you get them for 0.48$ each). For example (factory american eagle, PMC, Winchester, etc in american dollars) 9mm costs here 0.73 US$ per round, 38 spl costs 1$, 357 Magnum costs 1.2$, 308 Winchester costs about 2.73 US$, 44 Magnum costs about 1.82 US$; and those are the cheapest rounds of each caliber. Considered that each 9mm reload costs me 0.22 US$ and each 357 Magnum reload (cast bullet) costs me 0.27$. You see the difference (those are actual Prices in US Dollars)? It is a worthed reloading here even more than in Northamerica.
Resellers and representatives make locally imported ammo from the USA very expensive (about 3 times the cost in the USA). So reloading is locally even more economical as in the USA (over here we do not have any argue about if reloading is save anything or not). You see we have to reload. If we dont soon we will not be able to affort Shooting. That is why I got into reloading.

Have a nice day!

[dudel]

The only time I've salvaged shotgun components was when I was making shotshell for 38Spl. I wanted some #9 shot, and didn't need a 25# bag. I bought some shells with #9 shot, and salvaged the shot and wads. The wads were cut into overpowder wads. The powder (high in Nitrogen) was scattered on the lawn. The primers soaked in oil and dumped.

Bad idea using an unknown powder for loads. Especially so if you are just starting out. I'm seeing lots of powder available at Bass Pro, and they ship free to the store with no hazmat fees. Find another reloader that's local to you and split the hazmat fees. Someone might trade you some bullets or lead for powder. There are plenty of safe options out there if you look for them. When starting out, it's a good idea to follow a reputable reloading manual to the letter. Recommend you stay away from max loads till you get a bit of experience.

Reloading accidents don't do any of us any good.

[AJG]

Dear dudel,

You say <<There are plenty of safe options out there if you look for them>>. You mean "out there IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA". Oh yes in the USA there are lots of Options, but remmber I AM NOT LOCATED IN NORTHAMERICA.
If you really mean in my given Country in Southamerica I can aquire legally powder please let me know where.

All I can tell you out of experience is till now it is completely safe to scavenge powder and lead from shotshells for reloading pistol-Revolver cartridges. IT IS SAFE, as I have proven it in reality.

I loaded yesterday 19 9mm cartridges with Orbea (type Titegroup powder) powder to just 3.8 grains and they cicle fine. I shot 4 rounds and had a stovepipe but this was probably due to using my folding foreward pistol grip I have mounted on the S&W SD9VE pistol. Yes locally we can Mount legally a pistol grip on the picantinn rail of the pistol in order to hold it with 2 Hands. I mounted an rail Mount on the pistol on which on top I mounted an Mini Mag ligth and underneath I mounted a folding UTG pistol grip. Like that it turns out to be an very good PDW (in the US it will be an SBR as I understood) with sufficient weigth for such an ligth plastic pistol (the pistol as is is way to ligth for me since recoil is less manageable).
With These 3.8 grain loads all 4 FMJ 115 bullets penetrated 2 hardwood Sheets (and rebounced on the 3rd sheet) of 0.7 Inch totalling 1.4 Inch hardwood Penetration from 25 meters distance. It shoots about half a foot low but Groups where about 2 inches with one Flyer.
I detected this pistol shoots with Unique type powder rigth Point of aim but with faster burning powder like type Titegroup it shoots allways low regardless of the powder Charge.
Now I am waiting for the rest of my casting Equipment Arrival.

[dudel]

Dear dudel,

You say <<There are plenty of safe options out there if you look for them>>. You mean "out there IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA". Oh yes in the USA there are lots of Options, but remmber I AM NOT LOCATED IN NORTHAMERICA.
If you really mean in my given Country in Southamerica I can aquire legally powder please let me know where.


AJG.

I grew up in Latin America (Argentina, Chile, Colombia, Panama, Venezuela, Guatemala to name some). I know the difficulty of getting things down there. When I lived in Argentina, there were some components that were hard to find; but not impossible. Actually it was easier to get loaded ammunition from the police and/or military. You just needed to know the right people. (that's just the way it works down there).

In any event, there's really no need for the OP to go through the trials that you go through, because HE lives in the US where he CAN find powder.

Please don't make your problems, his problems. So where is the OP going to find Orbea shotshells? What does that translate to for Winchester AA?

I'm glad you found a solution that works for you. But making rounds from unknown powder is not the safest thing one can do.

[AJG]

Dear dudel,

Thanks for your Kind reply. Glad to hear you are familiar with Southamerican countries (speak the allways hidden sudden corruption of any social and governamental structures).
I don not know what do you mean with OP. Please explain the concept of OP.
Components actually are easy to find here but they have to be imported son an half year shipping delay is normal. For example my local gun shop now has no factory bullets for 357 mag/38spl (since they say there are no reloaders here and so they aint bringing it. They will bring it actually but it is hear just about next year).
I start to stock on primers since all other supplies I can get locally once I have my bullet molds. Here you have to stock huge amounts of supplies because they are not allways availlable. But that is not a Problem.

That is rigth. It would be easier to get loaded ammo through Police Forces. But one Problem: If they like your gun there is a possibility they seize it (confiscate) under any excuse and carry it themselves or sell it. It is not uncommon Police are selling their Revolvers (mostly 38 spl I guess) in order to afford multiple filliation judicial processes for recognition of paternaty (they have multiple love relationship and soon as a girlfriend gets pregnant she is suing him for monetary Support and so Police is forced to sell their weapons for Alimentation of children). So it is not uncommon Police has no weapon, less they have pistols. Locally Police has to buy from own pocket their weapons (just because if the governement would supply the weapon each Police would request each weak an replacement sidearm because they start to traffic with the duty weapons). So that is implied. If you have an better weapon as the Police you better hide it. Even less I would buy ammo from Police since every opportunity they would ask for my gun papers.
<<Just Need to know the rigth People>> is locally an Slogan for corruption, trafficking and an General receipt for Trouble. I ask already lots of People but it seems gun restrictions are sanctioned from highest ranks of governement to quench possible revolutions (2% of poblation posesses here 85% of the land and riches. Mostly cattle owners. The rest you guess how it is). Guns are restricted for rich People only (who can afford).

I just wanted contribute a Little my own Situation specially open eyes and a window of US citizens of other countries Situation regards reloading. I just wanted to state that as well in the US YOU CAN SCAVENGE SHOTSHELLS FOR RELOADING SAFELY.

The big Advantage we have over here is that it is in any way cost effective if you reload. If you reload you allways save Money. Even with 9mm, 38 spl, 25 acp, etc. More Money is saved if you would download to reduced loads 308 Winchester (to about 2000 fps and 1200 lbs/ft) or 30-30 Win (to about 1600 fps and 900 lbs/ft). But that is more dangerous because of risk of Detonation. We will see this in the future nevertheless.

[HangFireW8]

OP is the Original Poster, the person who started this thread.

[victorfox]

AJG, friend I hear you and keep warning our American friends about the democrats seizing the power forever.

I love in Brazil and our situation is quite similar to hours, maybe worse in some aspectos (I'd love to have a 9mm - forbidden here - or a 357 heavily restricted).

Let's keep exchanging ideas,we too walk the extra miles to keep our Guns shooting . Best regards, take care.

[AJG]

Dear victorfox,

I am located then near you. If I just could get some CBC powder I would be happy. But again I will not induce somebody to smuggeling.
I saw on some brasilian Lojas CBC type 216 (if I remember correct has a burn time of 0.35 miliseconds) powder 100 grams for 52 Reais (Sem Juros). That is much more than in the US powder is priced but at least something. I would not be surprised if Orbea shotshells have CBC powder in them. At least it works flawlessly (powder Looks flat square flake).

yes I saw on the CBC burn rate adn load data paper I downloaded (CBC Informtivo tecnico Nr 44 polvoras CBC) that you are not allowed 9mm nor 357 mag. In Brazil you can go only till 380 acp in pistols (no 9mm nor 45 acp) and 38 spl +p in revolvers. Actually an 380 acp is more economical to reload (3.1 grains of CBC 216 powder states on that paper) and recoils less. 9mm is about Maximum recoil I would want (I actually weigthed up with pistol Mount, flashlight and pistol foregrip my 9mm pistola de plastico in order to reduce recoil). Now it recoils a bit more like an 22 Magnum. If 357 Mag is recoiling too much for me I just dowload 357 mag cases to 38 spl Levels.
In Brasil all Long gun calibers are not allowed all the way from 223 to 7mm rem mag. Locally where I live they banned 223, 308, 50 cal (any. 50 cal muzzleloader not allowed) for being Military calibers.
But I see 44-40 Winchester is allowed in Brasil. So get that (I bet Taurus makes a cheap gun in that caliber). On Gallery of Guns there are a few 44-40 Win Lever Actions but they are sinfull expensive (I would not be Abel to afford them).
Fortunately you are not restricted on espingardas (shotguns) and their ammo as I see on that paper.

So just set up for relading your 380 acp to +p loads and your 38 spl. That is all you really Need and even is economical for reload. Get yourself a bunch of 12 ga shotshells, do not take boose (alcohol) and know what you are doing and start scavenging shotshells for powder and lead and happy reloading your 380 acp and 38 spl. It should be a viable Option for you as Long they are not restricting the amount of shotshells one Person can buy at once.

[victorfox]

AJG, you're quite correct.

Main problem is reloading anything but shotshells is that you can't do it without an Army license. Without that you would commit a serious felony. Not to mention you simply can't buy or find tools and components to buy without thr permit because you have to buy directly.from the manufacturer or importing with an international permit.

I said this in another post, given the restrictions we face, if I could at least handload I'd buy a 38spl revolver + carbine combo and be happy. I bought a nominal 410 revolver because it's allowed and I can handload with a few tools...

the 44-40 newer rifles suffer from ridiculous accuracy. Factory ammo is sized about .427" and the guns and bored .432/433" (and taurus have some loose tolerances...) because they use the same .44 magnum barrels and bore the chambers for the 44-40. Also 44-40 is one of the most expensive we have here so it's not affordable to shoot and quantities would be restricted to 50rd/year without the army license, which is both expensive and take about a year to get, not mentioning the fact they can simply refuse to issue it... I'm considering getting this license in the future but for now I don't have the financial means.

The 216 powder in fact is my staple powder and I figured it burns at about winchester 231 speed. we at least can get it, the 250 (fast fast fast) and 219 (tad slower bordering Unique burn speed). I'm reloading .410 for a taurus judge and 12 for shotgun.

Seems we both have some advantages and drawbacks over each other, firearm law and component wise. I'm sorry for you but at least you're on the look out for options outside the box. Let's keep in touch and exchange experiences.

Best regards, amigo

[Texantothecore]

Am having a problem finding Bullseye. So I went with Unique. It does it all.

[dudel]

Am having a problem finding Bullseye. So I went with Unique. It does it all.

It's a bit dirty with low power loads. Load above medium, and it cleans up quite a bit. A very useful and flexible powder.

[victorfox]

i've read about and the Alliant confirms the "new" Unique is cleaner than the older versions..

[Texantothecore]

Dudel, thanks for tip on loading Unique. My expectation is that 255 grn 725 fps will be the ticket.

[AJG]

Has anyone experience with reloading 30-30 Winchester caliber with Unique powder. (With Unique I mean any powder type with similar burn rate like the local Saga shotshell scavenged powder).

308 Winchester is not allowed to have here in Southamerica but 30-30 Winchester is allowed so that would be an alternative for reloading those cartridges with Unique type powder or Titegroup type powder.
Obviously it will be an reduced power load but nevertheless somewhat similar to 223 energy Levels. Please do not tell me it is a bad idea (because I know it is potentially dangerous but I have no other Option than reload with scavenged shotgun powders).
As well tell which Charge of Unique/Titegroup gave overpressure signs (only if you have personal experience with this). No hearsay please since it is an potential dangenrous endeavour!

Anyone any idea which is Maximum Charge for reloading 30-30 Win cartridges with Unique and/or Titegroup powder? Please indicate Charge in grains, velocity and energy (ft/lbs) if you have personal experience with reloading 30-30 win with any of These powders. No hearsay please since all I write I write out of personal experience (I have done it).

[HangFireW8]

AJG,

You might get more responses if you start a new thread.

[AJG]

How do I start a new threath?

[AJG]

I do not know how to start a new threath so if anyone could tell me.
Meanwhile I continue here.

I have a Problem:
Reloading 9mm I realised the cases do get shorter instead of getting to Long. So I never Need to trim them if it continues like this. As I understand cases should Stretch with each firinr and reloading but mine 9mm shrink instead. Allmost all are Winchester brand and fired at least 10 to 20 times each.
Is something wrong?
Lyman 48th reloading Manual states for 9mm Luger:
1. Over all length of max 1.169" and I get between 1.135" and 1.149" (Hornady 9mm taper crimp II 3 die set). i realised the FMJ Winchester bullets I use are not equally Long.
2. Case mouth Diameter (where it headspaces and were the bullet enters the case) 0.380" and I get about 0.376" fully loaded and taper crimped case; and 0.370" with an resized empty case. I try to taper crimp the less possible.
3. Case length 0.754" and I get if case is deprimed and resized 0.746".
4. Trim to length is 0.751" and shall not be less. But I am allways below that number between 0.740" to 0.748" (case length).

It seems cases are SHRINKING INSTEAD OF STRETCHING with 10 to 20 reloads. Cases have no signs of cracks or fatigue. Loads are Minimum loads where the pistol cycles reliably.

[dudel]

It seems cases are SHRINKING INSTEAD OF STRETCHING with 10 to 20 reloads. Cases have no signs of cracks or fatigue. Loads are Minimum loads where the pistol cycles reliably.

Straight wall cases tend to shrink, bottleneck cases tend to stretch.

[Hamish]

Dudel,

Was just reading your posts trying to warn of the "danger" of scavenging shotgun powder.

Respectfully, you've been a member here far long enough that I'm very surprised that you've not run across at least one of the many posts that have discussed using bottom end start load data for the fastest powder listed in a low to medium volume straight wall pistol cartridge (.38, .357, .45) to be able to pinpoint its burn rate. Many, many members have posted on it, all the way back to Aimoo. (It's not talked about a lot, because of misconceptions but they're out there). I've seen a couple of threads where leftovers of similar burn rates have been mixed and worked up in this manner safely.

If a listed load for say .38 spl. is 3.5 gr of Titegroup, then how can you possibly get into dangerous territory using 3.5 gr. of a surplus or scavenged powder.

Honestly, that's how much of the load info on this site was figured out to start with.

BTW, not calling you out by posting this instead of by PM, just wanted those that follow behind to know.

[victorfox]

AJG, do you resize your brass?

If you want some load data I can probably send it to you via email. And you can check the powder manufacturers for free brochures and loads (hodgdon, alliant, winchester and some bullet makers as speer have load data). If things are in your country like they're in Brazil, a simple manual would cost valuable money, which could be better spent on ammo.

I've been thinking about the square powder you mention from the shotshells and only ones I remember with that shape are Vectan (nobel) and B&P (italy). There might be others but... we can never use the shape and color alone to identify powder. Like others said, it's better to assume a fastest powder and start low.

You're happy if you can have a 30-30. I've been considering "planting a seed" (that is asking for the Army license for reloading and maybe getting a restricted caliber which takes about one year) only to learn Taurus/Rossi Rio Grande is a "grande porcaria" (great Bad word) and is not available to us.

Use the search option of the forums, there's a great many threads on the Unique + 30-30 cast loads (some say 10 , others up to 8.5gr and so on).

Good luck

[AJG]

Thanks victorfox and dudel as well as Hamish,

dudel: Ok. Then 9mm, 38 spl and 357 mag will SHRINK instead of Stretch. Very good it saves me at first an case trimmer. Although the cases y reloaded about 15 times shrank already below Trim-To-size length. So they are getting allways shorter and shorter.

victorfox: I have the Hornady carbide 9mm/9x21 Taper crimp II 3 die set so obviously I SIZE THE WHOLE CARTRIDGE ALLWAYS (full resizing). 9mm: First step is full resize and decap then secon die is mouth bell so justa barely an FMJ can seat then last die just barely crimps (undoing the case mouth bell) and seats.
Load data is on Internet and I downloaded Lymans Reloading Manuals in pdf (44th Edition and 48th, as well as Colonel E.H. Harrissons cast bullets book and Lyman cast bullets reloading Manual). That is enough ebooks I downloaded for free (obviously I would never pay for an ebook as well neither buy an reloading Manual for Money). I rather spend some spare Money on more shotshells, primers (ordered 6000 Winchester WSP and they are arriving about September. I have 600 WLR Winchester Large Rifle primers) and wheelweights.
I will not induce anybody to illegal activities!!! But you could send me a few Kg of Vectan powder or CBC. My mail forewarder has an Office in Brasil as well. I could wire you the Money to your bank account. Again: I will not be liable to induce anybody for any illegal activities!!!!
My mail forewarder and FFL registered gun shop just told me they can bring me all reloading Equipment but are not registred for transporting powders. Apparently it sounds as it is allowed to Import the powder from the US but they can not Transport it.
Please be not that sad if you can have ONLY till an 380 acp and 38 spl in Brazil. Those are respectfull weapons. Just get Close to 9mm power Levels. I myself load my 9mm down since it recoils then less in the SD9VE. My Registration just arrived for the 357 mag Heritage (Pietta) 1873 "Peacemaker" Revolver so I will have it on sunday.
Lyman 44th Manual says 30-30 min load 8 grains with Unique. That is an very slow load and gives you about 1370 fps and 625 lbs/ft energy. It is too less energy to consider it as a valuable rifle round since it has at 245 Yards a drop of 44 Inch, is there at 5 mil dots and has 336 ft-lb energy (equal to an 9mm). Your range is too short if reloaded 30-30 at 8 grain Unique since 245 meters is very short range.
In my Country I have no exact idea what is legal or not (because of the corruption and crooks). If it passes customs we consider it automatically as legal. If customs does not let it pass we know it is illegal. If you have a "brave" importer, it is legal if he manage to bringe it (in These Kind of countries perhaps only God knows what is legal or not).
Yes I realised as well Taurus is a big "besteira" as brasilians would perhaps call it. My local gun shot got rid of all Taurus brand since "they are ****" as they say. Too much Trouble with them and NO WARRANTY WHATSOEVER. It seems Taurus USA offers an better product as Taurus Brasil (in the US they maybe are not getting away ripping of People and customers).

Hamish: You seems to be a smart guy and very experienced. Congrats!
Yes that is what I did. I compared burn rate on YouTube of various powders and burned my shotgun powder. Looked like Unique regards burn speed. So I started with Unique Minimum load. That Minimum load I reduced drastically to be on the safe side. from there (3.5 grains) I loaded 5 rounds. They shot fine (no Explosion. I had an full face mask, leather gloves, jacket on in case the pistol would explode). Did not cycle reliably. So another 5 rounds I loaded to 4 grains. Shot fine but no reliable cycling. Loaded to 4.2 grains and got a stove pipe. Again loaded to 4.4 grains and all went fine. So I settled finally on 4.3 grains with Unique type powder. The other powder (Titegroup type) I loaded to 4.3 as well but wnted to know ist Minimum so finally it allways cycled reliable with 3.9 grains and now I got down to 3.8 grains with success (but got one stovepipe. Probably the rail Mount on top hindered ist full ejection).
For me this is the ONLY WAY and IT IS A FAFE WAY to reload in USSR-world-countries. Just use your head.

Ok. 'nuff talking for today.

[AJG]

anyone can tell me how I can start a new thread?

[wyofool]

anyone can tell me how I can start a new thread?
AJG go to the top of this thread and click on the "cast boolits" you will see a link to "start a new thread" click and bob's your uncle

good luck

[AJG]

It seems I have not enabled +start an new thread. I do not know why. Shows up just +Reply to thread Repy Reply with Quote and nothing else. So I guess I can not start a new thread.

[dudel]

Dudel,

Was just reading your posts trying to warn of the "danger" of scavenging shotgun powder.

Respectfully, you've been a member here far long enough that I'm very surprised that you've not run across at least one of the many posts that have discussed using bottom end start load data for the fastest powder listed in a low to medium volume straight wall pistol cartridge (.38, .357, .45) to be able to pinpoint its burn rate. Many, many members have posted on it, all the way back to Aimoo. (It's not talked about a lot, because of misconceptions but they're out there). I've seen a couple of threads where leftovers of similar burn rates have been mixed and worked up in this manner safely.


All well and good. Do you recommend the practice for newly minted reloaded (as the OP posted); because I don't. He asked for an opinion, I and several others told him it was not a great idea. Particularly when there are many sources of pistol powder other than the LGS.

[blackthorn]

Quote "It seems I have not enabled +start an new thread. I do not know why. Shows up just +Reply to thread Repy Reply with Quote and nothing else. So I guess I can not start a new thread."

AJG---Go to this “Cast Boolits” main page (the one withthe “Stickies” above the headings). At the top you will see a heading “ForumTools”. Click on the little inverted triangle (arrow) and a drop-down listappears. The first choice is “Start a new thread”. Hope this helps.

[AJG]

If I go to Cast Boolits I DO NOT see an heading with "Forum Tools". There is just None. Neither there is a inverted triangle. If I go to my Profile it says Error: main page error.

[luvtn]

AJG, go to the "cast boolit" forum page that lists all the threads. On the left side is a small link with a plus sign- post new thread. Good luck Amigo
luvtn

[Hamish]

All well and good. Do you recommend the practice for newly minted reloaded (as the OP posted); because I don't. He asked for an opinion, I and several others told him it was not a great idea. Particularly when there are many sources of pistol powder other than the LGS.

Just to clarify. No, this is not the route I would recommend for a novice reloader.

AJG has stated (more than once) that he cannot buy powder in his country.

May I suggest re reading post number 61. This gentleman has proceeded with logic and caution AFTER contacting the manufacturer and receiving their burn rate report and accompanying information.

My hat is off to him for making do in a viable, economical manner.

AJG, I'm sure you realise, but just to reinforce the thought, anytime you are working up from below listed start points in the load data, be very aware of the possibility of a bullet not exiting the barrel.

(I've dealt with this myself when trying to come up with a very low speed load in a wildcat cartridge with a surplus powder that had very little known load data.)

BTW, where are his "many sources of pistol powder other than the LGS"?

[AJG]

Dear Hamish,

Exactly as you say.

I hope today arrive my 357 mag RCBS taper crimp dies (yes taper crimp), various molds and other reloading stuff. I have alredy the Rough Rider (Pietta) 357 mag model 1873 and works fine (till now just Winchester Hollow Point 110 grain White box ammo) and shoots as precise as the 9mm does.

You are rigth. Reduced loads imply automatically you MUST check if the bullet Exits the Barrel.
I experimented with home made black powder and 2 times I had to hammer out an stuck bullet from the 9mm SD9VE. 2 times I loaded 9mm with "black powder" and both times a complete failure (hammer out the bullet). Fortunatelly I can not see any damage to the rifling. The primers make burn the "black powder" but it does not burn quick enough neither has it enough energy (feels like a squib load). If only I could manage to mke Black Powder I would use just that.
I tried all Kind of stuff making "Blackpowder". KNO3 + sugar. KNO3+charcoal+sulfur (regular 75-15-10 recipe). KNO3+sugar+sulfur. It never burned quick enough and never had enough energy. I managed to load right full an 12 ga shotshell with this homemade black powder but it had a too less energy and 1 oz shot fell onto earth after 8 meters about. Seemed to have burned but Performance just was not near satisfactory. First I cooked the Blackpowder whatever the Internet said but if was dangerous and had more than one fire. So I fabricated a ball mill which works fine but the Blackpowder result was not satisfactory. So I left it and turned to scavenging shotshells (that was my backup plan) for reloading and that worked very well.
I just ordered 10000 Winchester WSP small pistol primers (are here a Little over the double of the US Price). That will last me a Long time since reloading is fairly slow with scavenging and I reload in order to be Independent and save Money.

If you have an ball mill recipe for Blackpowder what really works I would be appreciated.

[PBaholic]

If I go to Cast Boolits I DO NOT see an heading with "Forum Tools". There is just None. Neither there is a inverted triangle. If I go to my Profile it says Error: main page error.

You need 30 posts, and 30 days as a member to be able to create new threads.

[JohnH]

Just glad I've never felt so desperate for components that scavenging for powder by destroying perfectly good shotgun shells sounded like a good idea.

[dudel]

BTW, where are his "many sources of pistol powder other than the LGS"?

If you'll re read my post, you'll see that those comments were directed to the OP. I listed some of those options in earlier posts.

1) order online (lots of options there)
2) trade with other reloaders (lead for powder has been done before)
3) get local store to order powder for your (I've done it during the shortage)

As far as our Latin friend, all I can say is it's pretty amazing what can come into any country via diplomatic pouch. Find some friends who travel to the US. Make some friends in the local police or military and get ammo from them. I've done all four in my younger years.

[runfiverun]

AJG there is one [and I think 2] good write ups on making home made black powder here on this site.
try a quick search they should pop up.

[AJG]

2 of my molds have arrived. It seems like an wonder. National gun agency let it Import and I hope the other molds (9mm Luger and 38 spl) are arriving as well soon. Customs put an hefty Charge on it about the double of the Price so each mold costing in the US about 45 US$ costs here then 100 US$ (shipping and handling included. That is the endprice). Not that all bad.
I believe the 2 molds what arrived are the Lee #4 buckshot mold and the Lee 7/8 oz slug mold. At least with this I can fully modify my shotgun loads (birdshot is transformed into Buck&Ball, Buckshot or slug in a cheap way). That saves about 50% of the cost of an Buckshot vs birdshot.

[Boolseye]

AJG, I just have to say I'm enjoying your posts. I wish I could share a coffee with you. I have a Brazilian friend who Summer's up here in VT, she's very cool too.

Thread starter is not difficult, on computer version just look at the top left above where the threads start. It says "Post New Thread," and there you go! You cannot delete a thread once you post it, FYI.

Not sure how on Tapatalk, haven't done it there yet...

Oh–just read the '30 days and 30 posts" post. Didn't know that.

One more thought–please don't blow yourself up with your experiments! I would miss your posts :-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mozeppa]

Bad........BAD..........BAD idea!!!!!!!!! Probably the worst I have read about on here!

You do not know what powder is in there. 9mm is perhaps the trickiest/hardest cal to load due to extremely low head space and over all case volume. Even with known powders, 9 is still VERY tricky. You just might get by with 38SPL or 45LC with that pulled powder (big forgiving cases), but I still would NEVER use it in anything but the shells it comes in.

Shot is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to hard to cast with, Use it to alloy with pure to get what you want/need.

But do NOT take 12ga shells apart for the parts!!!!!!!!!!!

As said above.....let us know when you will be at the range........we will stay home!

Please.......forget it and keep looking for KNOWN pistol and shotgun powders IN BOTTLES with KNOWN LOAD DATA.

Like said above........if it was a good idea.......it would already be all over this forum!!!!!!!

bangerjim

nope! the worst thread on here was one i started about using flash powder from fire crackers ....while it was only a thought AND i even said in the thread that i WAS NOT going to try it ...all i said was WHAT IF.....and i got so many hate, you are stupid, don't do it type replies all because most here DO NOT really read the o.p. opening statement.

that was the worst thread on here!