can suppresor/silencer teach us about powder?

[nekshot]

I do not have any of these extensions for my barrel so I must ask those who do. Are there any powders say in a 38 spl that are easier to get "quiet" than others or could be from a 300 BO also. Also if they are easier to silence are they more accurate? Just wondering about the upset that occurs when boolit leaves barrel. The reason I ask is I am messing around with my bolt action 7.62x39 and with 19gr of H4895 (other powders have drastic changes with differant boolits) it will shoot any of my boolits the same as far as a groub. I know this is not a "mouse fart" load but it got me to wondering why this load shoots all three cast boolit designs the same? Maybe by chance this is the first time I have had all boolit designs fit specific gun perfect. Just wondering, hopefully I don't get lost!

[Larry Gibson]

I have been using suppressors on numerous rifles and cartridges from .22 Hornet up through the 30-06 since 1980 and used several on M14s before that. Yes there are powders that are better to use, especially for subsonic loads. What is wanted is a faster burning powder that ignites easily, burns efficiently and is burned up with in the barrel so the muzzle exit psi is as low as possible. A good .30 cal suppressor can handle the load you mention. However, it will obviously be sonic so the, precursor sound, the ballistic crack will be loud (probably similar to a unsuppressed 22LR) and if the rifle is a gas gun the sound of the action functioning will also be heard. All can be quite loud depending on bullet style, actual velocity and action type and depending on where you are shooting from (any enclosure will increase the sound).

A good suppressor will not disrupt the bullet at all on muzzle exit. If the rifle is accurate w/o the suppresser on it then it probably will be more accurate with the suppressor. The weight of the suppressor dampens the barrel vibrations but how much depends on the barrel contour, barrel bedding, weight of the suppressor and the load used.

Suppressor designs are different. There are many now designed for the smaller capacity cartridges such as the 300 BLK outs and the 7.62x39 and other similar cartridges. When a full power 7.62 NATP cartridge is fired through them they are not as efficient. The size of a .30 cal suppressor is a good indicator. It requires internal volume in a suppressor for it to be efficient regardless of the advertising hype and claims about special baffle designs. The gas volume from 18 - 25 gr of powder in a smaller cartridge does not require as much internal volume to encapsulate it as does the gas volume created by 41 - 45 gr of powder in a full 7.62 NATO load.

Understand also that the residue from that powder is carbon. Carbon is very hard. If the suppressor is a good one most of the residue stays in "the system". If that "system" is a gas gun then understand a lot of that residue/carbon is sucked back into the barrel and action on functioning. That carbon residue can be very hard on barrels and actions.....been there, done that and got the T-shirt........best to keep the suppressor on a bolt gun or SS for casual civilian use such as plinking, target practice and hunting.

Larry Gibson

111009

[nekshot]

Thanks Larry, I sure wish a suppressor was in my immediate future but they and the licsence are expensive for this ole country boy!

[Finster101]

They are expensive for most of us. It baffles me (pardon the pun) why some countries make them so affordable or even require them while here they a portrayed as such evil things. I was very lucky here recently and won a Ruger 22/45 with a suppressor in my gun club raffle. The drawing had to be held early before all the tickets were sold because our state law was changing June 1st making them more difficult to get approved. The cost associated with them make absolutely no sense.

[303Guy]

My 15 ½ inch barrelled 303 Brit (pig gun) with a very simple baffle design quietened a full case of H4350 to the point where it was comfortable to shoot in a forest of big trees (which really echoes muzzle blast). The same baffle design in a much smaller suppressor on a 22-250 made it sound like an unsuppressed 22lr. It was 4 inches long. So small suppressors can be just as effective as large ones, even with slower powders. My short barrelled pig gun had a full length over-barrel suppressor and both were an inch and a quarter diameter with 2 inch overhang. I had an even smaller suppressor on my 25/303 which was as effective as a very large over-barrel suppressor on my buddies 308. That one only had one baffle. Without it that rifle was the loudest gun I've heard! Similar to a 243. I built a larger volume suppressor but with similar baffle system for a 243 which made it sound like a suppressed 22lr HV.

[Surculus]

They are expensive for most of us. It baffles me (pardon the pun) why some countries make them so affordable or even require them while here they a portrayed as such evil things...The cost associated with them make absolutely no sense.

You can thank FDR for that, among his many other crimes. A charismatic individual he surely was, but not the best thing that ever happened to our country.

[Artful]

I use Suppressors on super and subsonic cartridges from 22 LR thru 45 ACP and 5.56 thru 7.62. They all have one thing in common and that's the less powder used and if the velocity is below trans-sonic speeds they are a joy to shoot.
Without the can this little scout is very noisy
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/Misc/th_0612112302.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/rowdyfisk/media/Misc/0612112302.jpg.html)
and the same can is used on other rifles
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/FAL/th_Remington700V243WCFwithCycloneandHarrisBipod.jp g (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/rowdyfisk/media/FAL/Remington700V243WCFwithCycloneandHarrisBipod.jpg.h tml)
Even this 243 is nicer with it's can on, as is this AR
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/FAL/th_278.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/rowdyfisk/media/FAL/278.jpg.html)

If a suppressor is in your future just a couple of things to remember
1) Suppression trumps cost
- your wallet may make you cry once but if you get an ineffective suppressor you will cry every time you shoot it.

2) Ammo, the smaller the case the easier it is to make subsonic loads for - Some cartridges come with standard loads in subsonic speeds (standard velocity 22LR, 45 ACP, Heavy bullet 9mm) they will be cheaper to use and duplicate. Other Cartridges you can get subsonic ammo for (308, 7.62x39, even 223) but they are expensive to by, more difficult to reload for and don't operate some guns (semi's) normally, not to mention being expensive.

3) In reloading you want faster powders, that are not position sensitive they work best.

4) Remember in the suppressor world some are cleanable - many are not easily cleaned.

5) A larger caliber suppressor can often work with a smaller caliber pretty well - 9mm can on 22LR works pretty good.

Now having said that I have not experience different bullet styles being noticeably more or less noisy as Mr Gibson has.
http://www.silencerresearch.com/bulnoise.GIF

I can tell you with my screw on suppressors the bullet impact shifts between mounted and with out the suppressor
but it is repeatable - on the same rifle with the same can and ammo you know it will move the distance each time and once you
figure it out and write it down it's easy to adjust for.

Now that making new machineguns is banned for civilians (only .gov and SOT's) suppressor's are becoming more popular.

More states than ever before in my memory now allow ownership and use of them.
And if your handy at fabrication the $200.00 tax stamp on the form 1 will be the
biggest expense. (At tax that hasn't risen since 1934! - thank goodness)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/Misc/suppressor-x-ray.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/rowdyfisk/media/Misc/suppressor-x-ray.jpg.html)

[303Guy]

My very first suppressor was somewhat like that no.9. It only had only cones in it and was shorter.. It was dead silent for subsonics on my Mini14. I loaded progressively more powder (fast pistol) and the noise increased proportionately but I could not tell whether it was muzzle blast or boolit noise. It sounded like muzzle blast noise. It helped with full power loads but not that great. All in all, those are rather complicated suppressors. From that chart one can see just how much noise a bullet makes. I've been in a forest with a friend shooting a 223 with suppressor and it was so quiet. It sounded like a whip crack but no more than a suppressed 22lr HV.

Another consideration with suppressors is the muzzle brake effect. For that the slower and more powder the better they work. My muzzle break design cuts muzzle blast to almost bearable levels without ear plugs. It's a simple thing too but sadly, not legal without a licence in your country as it would be classed as a suppressor.