First Casting Session

[Jäger]

Last night I poured hot lead into a mold for the first time. I'm casting for my 30-06 Remington 700 using a Lyman 311672 mold. I was using #2 lead in my 4-20 pot running between 600-700 degrees and water dropping. I fluxed only once with beeswax but I only did 100 boolits. Stirring with a wooden shim occasionally, the lead ran clean and smoothly. I used bullplate lube on the mold and it seemed work well although I did have the occasional stuck puddle on the sprue plate that required some fiddling to remove after the bullets dropped. I had to hit the mold handles with a wooden dowel occasionally to get the bullets to drop but most of the time they fell right out. Once I had the boolits, I couldn't help but go all the way and lube, size and load a few rounds. All in all it was an awesome experience like I knew it would be. I learned everything I know about casting within this forum, much appreciated. Here are some photos:

110395

110396

110397

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110399

I ended up with 52 goers and then the rest were either clearly garbage or questionable. The next pic is a good sampling of questionable ones. Are any of these are ok to use?

110400

Ok the last one is for fun but the others I really don't know if they are useable.

[TXGunNut]

Good job and a good eye for detail. Looking forward to the range report!

[462]

You did good.

As to the four you asked about, I'd toss them back into the pot. I don't like imperfections on the driving bands.

[Jäger]

I went to the range with these but never checked to make sure the cases chamber first. So I put the cartridge in the chamber but the bolt wouldn't go down. I tried a few and they were all the same. Back home, I was able to get them to chamber by using more force to get the bolt down. After doing that once, I guess it formed the case and subsequent chamberings were normal. This is federal military brass that was put through a full length RCBS sizing die. They were hard to get through that die.

[Pb2au]

Hmm.
Is your OAL a little long?
also, out of curiosity, what did you size them to?
it also might be worth measuring the diameter of the neck after the projectile is seated. It is possible you might have some thick brass.

[FredBuddy]

The great ting about casting our own boolits is that the not-so-good ones can go back into the pot for another try. I have a baggie full of my first .357's that will go back. I didn't prep the mold so well.

Keep on keepin' on....

[John Boy]

Jager - to further your casting & reloading expertise, may I offer this:
* Heat the pot melt up to a temperature so when you do a 5 second pour into the mold - the sprue puddle frosts in 5 -7 seconds. Results? Pretty perfect bullets
* To make your cases slid easily in the sizing die - a light finger wipe with Bag Balm as your case lubricant. Been using it for years with no issues, including reforming cases to different calibers
http://www.bagbalm.com/where-to-buy.htm

And congratulations on your 1st Cast - Ya Did Good!

[WILCO]

Those boolits look great!

[L Ross]

Very nice looking bullets, they look like you've been doing this for years. Without seeing your rounds after they were extracted I am only guessing, but were the bullet noses engraved? If you full length sized I don't think your brass is the issue. Unless you have a tight neck and fat bullets. I am dealing with that right now in a match chambered .308 and I am turning the necks and I believe I have the problem solved.

Duke

[DeputyDog25]

Looks to me like you did a very nice job for the first time, but then again, I have not cast my first bullet yet, so my opinion doesn't count for much. Congratulations, I can't wait to do my first cast, hopefully next week sometime.

[Jäger]

I trimmed to the trim-to length specified in the Lyman manual and the cases will not chamber easily even without a bullet seated. I sized down to 309. I'm going to have to try that bag balm, to see if they will go through the FL sizing die better. My sprue puddle was frosting in 2-3 seconds, I'll try running things a tad hotter next time.

[Yodogsandman]

Nice boolits! We all have to throw some uglies back in the pot!

I'd like to address a few reasons that might cause your hard chambering problem. When first setting up a full length sizing die, I like to "smoke" the shoulder area of the case using a candle. I set the sizing die to just kiss the datum line of the shoulder of a case that was fired in your rifle. This assures that the case will fit your chamber perfectly and not "overwork" the brass case. If your using cases that were not fired in your rifle, hard chambering could mean the shoulder wasn't pushed back enough. Military chambers are a little looser than commercial chambers.

If you have a fired case that was fired from your rifle, measure the outside diameter of the neck. Check to make sure that your finished rounds do not exceed that diameter. When fired, the boolit must be able to release from the brass. Military brass is thicker than commercial cases and more caution is needed.

There are different options for seating your boolit depending on your boolit design, rifle throat and bore size. When setting up the seater die to seat your boolit, most seat the boolit out far enough to touch or engage the rifling. If the boolit is seated too far out, it will chamber hard and it'll probably be pushed back into the case if you push hard enough. I take an uncharged, unprimed, sized case with a slightly belled mouth and seat a boolit longer than needed in it, then check for contact as I run the bolt forward. I seat the boolit a few times, shorter each time. I back off the boolit to where I don't have hard chambering and having to push the bolt hard to close it. I either want the first driving band touching the throat or the nose to start engraving the rifling. Both are best. Be aware that your magazine could limit your over all length.

As far as your boolit quality goes, it's up to you what your using them for. Sighting in, offhand practice, 1st and 2nd sighter shots, load development, competition, etc..yadda,yadda,yadda. Myself, I like my boolits fully filled out, with no visible voids larger than a speck of dust, edges of the bases sharp and the sprues cut off neatly with a clean shear. Voids closer to the center of the boolit effect the flight less. Weighing your boolits to a mean weight +/- will help to avoid "flyers" caused by internal voids. The weighing part is more important as you start out and work to improve your skills. As you get better, you'll have less internal voids.

[Jäger]

Thanks yodog, this is very helpful. Thanks to all who responded. I'll set up my FL sizing die properly and see if the cases chamber normally.

[500MAG]

Looks like you have been doing it for years.

[Yodogsandman]

Your very welcome. Just to expand a little on what john boy's said about your sprue puddle. The puddle will "freeze" first and then flash "frost" over. A good size puddle is desirable to keep your sprue plate hot. The speed of your casting and the cadence you'll develop will determine your optimum lead pot temperature.

I noticed that you're water-dropping your boolits to harden them. Are you planning try to run them fast from the start? Depending on your desired velocities, you might be better off with air cooled #2 for say up to about 1800 FPS. The faster you push them, the more "tricks" you'll need to know.

BTW, Hey neighbor! Just noticed your location.

[jonp]

Last night I poured hot lead into a mold for the first time. I'm casting for my 30-06 Remington 700 using a Lyman 311672 mold. I was using #2 lead in my 4-20 pot running between 600-700 degrees and water dropping. I fluxed only once with beeswax but I only did 100 boolits. Stirring with a wooden shim occasionally, the lead ran clean and smoothly. I used bullplate lube on the mold and it seemed work well although I did have the occasional stuck puddle on the sprue plate that required some fiddling to remove after the bullets dropped. I had to hit the mold handles with a wooden dowel occasionally to get the bullets to drop but most of the time they fell right out. Once I had the boolits, I couldn't help but go all the way and lube, size and load a few rounds. All in all it was an awesome experience like I knew it would be. I learned everything I know about casting within this forum, much appreciated. Here are some photos:

110395

110396

110397

110398

110399

I ended up with 52 goers and then the rest were either clearly garbage or questionable. The next pic is a good sampling of questionable ones. Are any of these are ok to use?

110400

Ok the last one is for fun but the others I really don't know if they are useable.

That one on the right looks like an old paper cartridge with the twist at the bottom painted silver

[myg30]

Nice job casting. You reminded me of my first session. Your in for a ride now, your hooked !
I never worrie about rejects as we all get em, the only difference is when we throw em back in the pot.
Keep up the good work, be safe always, NEVER rush casting either. Flesh takes long time to heal.

Congrats, Mike

[Jäger]

Here's the first range test. I don't want to call it a range report because I only had a few rounds loaded. This weekend I will load some more but for now I had only 4 cartridges each of 24 grains and 25 grains. This is 5744 powder with Winchester large rifle primer under a 160gr lyman#2 boolit in once fired military brass headstamp FA57. Lubed with LLA and sized to .309 out of a lefty Remington 700. My reference was 5 shots of 150gr Remington Core Lokt at 100yds which yielded a 6" group. I'm not a great shooter.....yet. The pic is of the reloads only. The 24gr load gave me a 3" group with 4 rounds at 100yds and the 25gr gave me a 5" group but one flyer that didn't hit paper with 4 rounds. The 24gr grouping was aiming for the center target and the 25gr grouping was aiming for the top left target. The Remington Core Lokt control group was 6" around the center target, aiming for the center target. What do you think?

111473

[Yodogsandman]

I think... I wish I did as well this weekend! Good job!

[Cherokee]

Congrats.... you are making good progress with the CB's.

[Jäger]

I figured out that my sizing problem was because the case holder wasn't going all the way flush with the bottom of the die. Using more case lube fixed that situation and all my sized cases now chamber normally. Next I ran into an issue where I was crushing the case shoulder during seating. Raising the die fixed that. So the cases are chambering, the boolits are seated and I've got almost a full box of 30-06 ammo ready. A full range report will follow, hopefully this weekend at the latest!

[jayjay1]

Good job!

Best wishes from another Jäger from the other side of the Atlantic.
[smilie=s:

[Yodogsandman]

:popcorn:

[Jäger]

I shot 25 rounds with 24 grains at 100yds. 5 to zero the scope and then two groups of 10. I was shooting from a bench resting on my range bag and an ammo can. It wasn't very windy. The spread was 7" on both groupings but one had either a flyer or two in one hole. Probably a flyer because the holes are all similar in size. I guess I'm going to go up a grain of powder at a time to see if I can tighten it up some. 25 grains is the starting point on this load in my Lyman manual. I started at 24 because I'm using military cases.

112560
112559

[Yodogsandman]

Good shooting! That's real close to your reference factory ammo group of 6". It's encouraging to see that your groups don't string up and down or side to side.

You might need to support your rifle better for your accuracy testing, maybe a few homemade sandbags. I made some from the legs of some old jeans awhile back. Fill them up with some dry, non dusty material like play sand, used corn cob media, rice...

You could also do a search for some benchrest techniques to try if you need it. The big trick is to reduce the human influence for the shot as much as possible. Support the forend on the front sandbag rest at a comfortable height, grip the rear bag with your left hand (for a righty) and squeeze the rear bag up or down to adjust the height to your point of aim. Use a light grip with your trigger hand with the rifle in the pocket of your shoulder. Don't snug up the rifle too tight into your shoulder. Roll with the shot, don't tighten up, you want the rifle to recoil straight back. Maintain eye contact with the target through your shot and follow through. Control your breathing, relax. Squeeze the trigger. Remember you still have the safety on and repeat from the beginning.

I'm looking forward to your next range report!

[Jäger]

Thanks for the feedback Yodogs! I think you're right, I have to refine my setup on the bench. I have a pair of jeans I no longer fit into (I must have gotten more muscular over the years) that I can cut up and make some sand filled bags for better support. Should I continue testing at 24gr with improved support or go straight to 25gr?

[Yodogsandman]

I've got that extra table muscle from too many pullups to the table myself! A little research on this site might convince you to try a lower amount of 5744 powder. I saw a reference to 21-23gr somewhere but, you should check for yourself. I'm not familiar with 5744 or your boolit. I did read that it wasn't position sensitive and that it doesn't like to be compressed. I also saw where in 2011 on the Cast Bullet Assn. competition roster, someone did pretty good with 21gr 5744 and a 311672 in a 7.5x55. Again check it out yourself, I was tired.

The tips above are just the very basics, that's all I really know. Except for one other trick, I use mica on my leather bags now so the gun has less friction as it recoils back. It reduces my groups by about an inch. I was hoping a REAL benchrester would chime in with some better tips for you.

When I started reloading, I used an old ironing board with a padded v-block for my front forearm rest on it and a jean leg sandbag filled with packing peanuts. This was pretty steady for woods pit shooting. I remember getting a 5 shot, 1/2" group off from it when the planets aligned.

[Magana559]

Good job! You definitely are going somewhere with cast! I'm relatively new to this as well but all I shoot is cast.

Accuracy can improve, but in order to test for accuracy you need to shoot off of a lead sled. You said yourself that you can shoot a 6" group with jacketed and frankly I can shoot a 1" group or less at 100 yards when shooting off a bench.

Next time try shooting off a bench or a lead sled, take your time and aim small.

All in all you are doing a great job at casting.

[Jäger]

Thanks Magana. I'll work on that before I mess with the load anymore. I need to do more research now that I've got the first session behind me. I'm already seeing info that points to use less 5744 rather than more, much like yodogs said but also people seem to have better luck with a heavier boolit.

[Yodogsandman]

A heavier boolit takes just a little more time to get it started out of the case allowing some powders to burn more efficiently. Using a crimp will slow yours down just a bit also, making it behave more like using a heavier boolit. Look in your barrel at the powder residue. If you see a lot of unburned kernels, partially burned kernels or if your cases seem extra sooty, you should try crimping your boolit. Sometime a crimp make no difference. Using a crimp introduces another variable into the accuracy game so, only use it if you need to.

[woodbutcher]

:bigsmyl2: Being as I`m a cheapskate/tightwad from way back,my favorite sand bag consists of the good old fashioned zip up bank bag filled with sand.At the end of the day,I just unzip it and dump the sand,and it transports real easy.Welcome aboard.NOW,we got ya hooked.Hehehe.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[country gent]

A little trick I use when shooting for groups and accuracy testing is to glue a 3" white square ( top level) in the bull. Sight in to hit away from it and bracket the corner of the square in the corner of the crosshairs, Bu putting the group away from aiming point the aiming point never changes. A set of blocks and sand bags at the hieght so the rear bag can just be squeezed for small elevation channges is ideal. I perfer sand in my bags as I want the wieght to stabilize the rifle and help control it. A friend has been known to use bags of fine lead shot. My front rest is a homemade one from 3" round steel for body and 1" r round for legs with a 12" dia foot print. Thing wieghts 35 -40 lbs. a small bag on the cradle and a bunny eared bag in back with a brick bag under it makes for a very stable set up. A wood block with sandbags on it and an appropriate rear bag hieght will work also. End result to achieve is rifle sitting on bags is lined up on target with out being touched.

[WHITETAIL]

First off, Welcome to the board!
:cbpour:You are on the path of no return.
Your boolits look great.
Now you need to get your gun to settel down.
Go out and get some play sand.
and fill a few bead bags with sand,
cover them with some of your old socks.
As you load more and shoot more you will
see a great inprovement.
Keep asking questions, these people here are great!:drinks:

[Yodogsandman]

I also use my crosshairs to bracket my aim point similar to country gent. I shoot at 9" paper plates with a 1" black dot in the middle. I can see the bullet holes good on the white background. I bracket the left side of the vertical crosshair and the top of my horizontal crosshair to just touch the edge of the spot. It gives me two specific points of reference. I don't care all that much where on the plate the boolits hit, I'm shooting for the group. I can always adjust the scope when I get where I want to be. This gives you a very defined spot for a point of aim.

To make my targets, I buy a big stack of the cheapest paper plates I can find. I use a template plate with the 1" center cut out. Then I'll lay the template on each plate and either spray paint the dot with cheapo flat black or use a thick magic marker. A foot thick stack of plates lasts for quite a while for next to nothing per target.

I hold the targets up using a nail, too. While thumbtacks, push pins and staples do OK, I hate to have to walk back and forth 100 yards again because the target fell down.

[country gent]

The reason for the square aiming point is it also helps keep the rifle positioned the same radially on the bags. It helps maintain consistency. With a scope mounted in tall rings a diffrence radially can show up as slight changes in windage. I simple cut them from 2x4 index cards and glue them in place with a glue stick. Your template could be made with a little layout and a xacto knife easy enough also. I have a template made up for BPCR Chickens targets I use to paint on poster board or bytcher paper also.

[tmc-okc]

For my front rest I bolted a scissor jack from a 73 CJ5 Jeep to a 12 inch square piece of plywood on the bottom ( sold the Jeep and the jack stayed home). On the top I mounted a 6 inch square piece of pine then made a sandbag to fit. Made several sand bags from old Levis. Attached a 2 in square block to the height adjustment so I could easily adjust it up & down. It works well when sandbags are used to hold the bottom steady. I do use a set of leather rabbit ear sandbags on the rear. I like to use a white 1 3/4 inch diamond aim point. It helps to keep the scope crosshairs vertical & horizontal - IF - the target is hung vertical. I know it is all kinda "Micky Mouse" but it has served me pretty good for over 20 years.

Ron H