Natural gas drilling is starting in my area

[fastfire]

There are 4 test wells within 30 miles of me.
They are about to do some 3d (ultrasound testing) can't remember the proper word.
Went to a local meeting with concerned citizens.
Has anyone got any experience dealing with gas drilling and what to do?
My well is hand dug 65" deep and am concerned about the collapse of the well during the testing.
The said it will last a few seconds but I don't trust what they say.
Also concerned about water quality from drilling chemicals used.

[Idz]

If you really anticipate damage you have to document what you have now. Have your and all your neighbors water tested by a certified laboratory and keep the report. To be legal evidence you have to have an uninterested third party draw and test the samples and maintain a 'chain of custody'. Then have an engineer or well company document the current structural condition of the well. That's all going to cost money but a clever citizens group could get the gas company to foot the bill.

[phonejack]

Have you got mineral rights ? If you don't know, find out !

[DLCTEX]

Modern drilling practices have negated most problems associated with drilling. We have had drilling here for years with no proven problems. They have learned how to properly case wells and fracking takes place thousands of feet down and has been a non issue. The pastproblems with water wells is no longer an issue since they keep s distance from them and no longer use explosions, but have vibrator trucks to send impulses down when seismegraphing.

[doc1876]

Also take pictures of you land, and your foundations. I have been mildly following the fracking and pipeline issues lately, and they are not good reports. Hopeful it is just a drilled gas well, and as many of my relations are in Wyoming, and have these wells on their property, they have no problems other than the checks don't come in real regularly.
.

[runfiverun]

fast fire if you have specific questions about the wells p.m. me.
I can lead you to [or tell you] the [correct, hands on, actual]answers about the drilling, the engineering of the drilling, and the chemicals and science of fracking.
ohhhh.
we don't need any gas wells drilled, we got too many going now.
never mind the gas that just get's burned off the oil shale in the Bakken field, and the un-fracked wells just sitting there on the mesa and Jonah fields. [both with pipeline structure in place]
the Marcellus field is booming right now [it's all gas] and the midland Texas area is up and going too. [on top of the casper wy /Farmington nm/ and the Denver areas]

if they are drilling it's for oil. [it has [U.S. dollar] value and gas don't right now]

[Bad Water Bill]

Many years ago my folks lived JUST (next block over) outside of Chiraq.

We had our own well (Lake Superior) and septic system.

One day we found out that the Chiraq deep tunnel (storm water project which is still going on 50 years later) project ran underground down the middle of our street.

How did we find out?

Every well suddenly went dry when they blasted one day.

The very next day a Chiraq and county official went door to door informing every homeowner that they had X days to sign up for the installation of Chiraq sewer and water (about a $5,000 fee) or your home would be condemned because of lack of proper water and sewage disposal.

No the blasting had not affected the septic fields of anyone but sign up for both OR ELSE.

Their brand new home had only cost $30,000 2 years before.

[Jack Ripper]

I have land I inherited, been in my family for a 100 yrs. They drilled a whole bunch of wells. The market is so saturated with natural gas they are dang near giving it away. The worst part about it is those giant compressors they use for fracking. Man are they noisy. Basically picture the biggest Cat motor you have ever seen with a rudimentary muffler running 24/7.
My problem is my great great grandmother leased it out , because it sure ain't worth the money imho.

[Jack Ripper]

To tell you the truth I can't wait for the wells to play out so those people and their equipment will go away.

[Gator 45/70]

I have one well 300 yds from the water well, 2nd well is 1/4 mile away and drilling another 1000 yds from the water well, No problems here to report.

[Bad Water Bill]

If natural gas is so abundant why is my gas bill suddenly going UP 28%?

Sorry I forgot Obozo DECREED it.:evil:

[Bad Water Bill]

I have one well 300 yds from the water well, 2nd well is 1/4 mile away and drilling another 1000 yds from the water well, No problems here to report.

Now we know who to contact for our next loan.:bigsmyl2:

[Dale in Louisiana]

Those fracking wells are a few thousand feet deep, well past he layers that form your aquifer. Shouldn't affect you at all.

Six years ago natural gas was thirteen dollars for a million BTU. This morning it was less than four. Six years ago my employer brought fifty shiploads (and they're BIG ships) of liquid natural gas from overseas. Today, due to fracking, we're getting ready to build ten billion dollars worth of plant to liquify American gas and sell it overseas, creating thousands of jobs.

Pipelines that used to take gas from dwindling Gulf gas fields and send it north are now schizophrenic because the production is in shale formations all over, from Marcellus in Pennsylvania and the Northeast, Bakken in North Dakota, Eagle Ford in South Texas, Haynesville in North Louisiana, and dozens of others and we need to be able to move gas in several directions at once, where ever the clients need it. My job with the pipelines got very interesting.

For the USA, we got energy-independent until the tree-huggers shut it all down.

dale in Louisiana

[Gator 45/70]

Now we know who to contact for our next loan.:bigsmyl2:

Lol, I say mine, However I only have a few drops per barrel that I get a check on.

My water well is 200 ft or so deep, The production sands are around 21,000 No way these two will co-mingle .

[wv109323]

The "ultrasound" is nothing to worry about if it is the same they did around my house. They had machines that caused a vibration on the ground,(the machine stayed on the asphalt road) while monitoring the "echoes". No damage whatsoever.
Damage to the water table is minimal if at all. Nearly always the well is cased well below the water table. What good would a gas well be if it was allowed to fill with water. The fracking in layman's terms is blasting the bedrock/strata which contains the natural gas. The fractured rock allows the gas to escape to the well more easily. The fracking takes place hundreds if not thousands of feet down. There is no way that it can cause surface subsidence or movement.
There are few chemicals used in drilling and fracking. Wells are drilled with water and the fracking is nearly the same as dynamite. Unless they are within 100 feet of your well I doubt there would be damage.
I would be more concerned with a neighbor pouring out his used motor oil than drilling for gas. Mining were a mineral or coal is removed from the ground presents new and a lot more problems.
Think of fracking as the new "global warming".
If gas wells or fracking caused death there would be no one in WV alive.

[dragon813gt]

I'd be more worried about what it does to the infrastructure in your area. The wells run 24/7 and to say that the trucks destroy the roads is an understatement. The gas companies are not keeping their end of the deal in the northern tier of PA. But then again we are getting no tax revenue from it because our governor is in their pocket. The Democrat candidate is running a campaign about receiving revenue from the gas companies because of this. Wells are known to just randomly dry up here because of the shale shifting all the time. Tell me that fracking won't effect this. Unless you live in an area that's been effected by this then you really don't have a dog in the fight. I look at it as a necessary evil for now. If the gas companies did their job of maintaining the infrastructure I would have a more positive attitude towards it. It's been hell getting to my cabin in the winter these past few years.

[onceabull]

I'm sure that Intermountain Gas Co.will be shocked to learn that the well they just allowed to hook up to their line near New Plymouth,Id. is really an Oil well !!!! Onceabull

[runfiverun]

pretty sure they ain't..
they call them separators for a reason.

just do a search here, you'll find the answers in the past postings several of us [that do this stuff everyday] have already posted.

[southpaw]

I'd be more worried about what it does to the infrastructure in your area. The wells run 24/7 and to say that the trucks destroy the roads is an understatement. The gas companies are not keeping their end of the deal in the northern tier of PA. But then again we are getting no tax revenue from it because our governor is in their pocket. The Democrat candidate is running a campaign about receiving revenue from the gas companies because of this. Wells are known to just randomly dry up here because of the shale shifting all the time. Tell me that fracking won't effect this. Unless you live in an area that's been effected by this then you really don't have a dog in the fight. I look at it as a necessary evil for now. If the gas companies did their job of maintaining the infrastructure I would have a more positive attitude towards it. It's been hell getting to my cabin in the winter these past few years.

In my neck of the woods the gas companies have put more money into the roads than the state has in the last 10 years. What about the impact fees that have been collected and redistributed? We are talking millions and millions of dollars here. I have seen atleast 2 very large hotels built in the last few years to accommodate the increase in workers in the area. I will bet they are paying taxes here and buying stuff locally.

As far as the wells drying up I wouldn't count on that happening all that soon. However it is possible that they may be throttled back or shut down due to demand.

If you own your mineral rights DON'T SIGN THEM OVER until you have gotten with a group and had a lawyer help with the contract.

The only reason Ny hasn't allowed any drilling is they want to make sure that they can tax them as much as possible.

BTW I live right in the middle of all this.

Jerry Jr.

[fastfire]

Near the end of this month the state law makers will be making up the laws concerning the gas companies and the impact they will or may have. I hope the gas company isn't in the pockets of our representatives.

[Lee]

I'll have only one comment here. That is, if you power your home with nuclear energy, get off. If you power your home with natural gas, get off. If you power your home with fuel oil, get off. If you power your home with wood, get off.
Now before I get flamed, consider the alternatives. Geothermal? Did I mention electricity? Solar? What happens when "da sun don't shine?" Wind power? What happens when it don't blow? Rest assured, the deep pockets have us all in mind, just not favoribly. Did I mention gasoline prices? With all the "stuff" we are expporting, O'Bummer sure isn't worried about where AF1 is gonna cart his sorry *** next week.
OTHERWISE, any action you take, any decision you make has consequences.
I am rural. 2-3 years after moving here, a petition was circulated demanding the local dairy farmer close down, from a newbie yuppie, because every May, he "spread the wealth", and the smell bothered the little stupid yuppie commune next to me.
The petition STATED "everyone one knows milk comes from the store. We don't need these smells."
Please, take time to consider the consequences of your(our) actions.
No flaming please. We all need to consider the consequences of our actions ..... Lee

[Bad Water Bill]

About 30 years ago I took a great shower in Virgin Valley Nv.

Almost every square inch of the valley was staked out.

Yes they knew about the thermal waters just below the surface.

If thermal is so great why hasn't the Canadian company that spent the bucks and staked it out and filed the claims developed it yet?

[Gator 45/70]

And a 'wet' contract.



pretty sure they ain't..
they call them separators for a reason.

just do a search here, you'll find the answers in the past postings several of us [that do this stuff everyday] have already posted.

[jebsca]

It's nice to see that bit everyone is getting the facts from the media. Keep in mind, this is the same media that is pushing anti-gun. I have been working for a frac company for about 10 years now, and feel that we are doing a very good job of looking out for all of our best interest. If we mess up the drinking water, that will be a big problem for me as well. I still haven't been able to live without it. As for the hell that we can play on the local roads and what not, that is a broad paint brush getting used. I have seen some companies that do not care about the roads, SOME. Most of us know that we have to use the roads for the life of the well, and not only do we take care of them, we tend to help the roads we are allowed to work on. I know that in south central Kansas, the dirt roads around here are much better now than when I first started. I have seen different companies bring in rock and pay for dirt work to make poor roads usable, and build roads that were sorely needed.

[xs11jack]

A few days ago, some government agency, I think, released a study about the earthquakes that have been plaguing some areas of Oklahoma. The bottom line was that fracking is the cause. Some of the quakes are as high as 4 on the Rickter(sp) scale and cause damage. As Bill says "What say you?"
Ole Jack

[DLCTEX]

Oklahoma has been having earthquakes since Adam was a pup. The recent quakes are not occuring in the areas that most of the fracking is being done. We have had fracking going on for years here and wells drilled everywhere. No quakes here other than a minor tremble like those that have occured every great once in a while since man has been here.

[runfiverun]

they backed off from blaming the fracking and are now blaming it on the injection wells in the area.

oh well... if it weren't for "earthquake oil" they wouldn't have found much of it down texas and Oklahoma way when they first did.

[DLCTEX]

I wonder if the fact that the oil and gas in this area is found along the Anadarko fault may be a key to why earth quakes happen? No one is surprised when they happen along other fault lines.Duh!

[dakotashooter2]

It is rumored that North Dakota is also begining to experience some quakes. This is actually our second "oil rush" so we have been through it before but apparently didn't learn any lessons. I wasn't concerned at first but grow more concerned every day. The pace of development is staggering and our rural lifestyle and landscape is taking some big hits. In the western part of the state water is also becoming an issue. This state has been in a "wet" weather pattern for 15-20 years but that is going to end at some point. If water is an issue now (used for fracking) what is going to happen when we get back into our normal (dry) weather cycle. Water was already and issue previous to our current "wet cycle".

[farmerjim]

I hope they drill on one of my 3 leases soon.

[.45Cole]

Natural gas is hard to pay by itself, but many of the wells target "wet" gas. Natural gas liquids (NGL) make gas production profitable and is what makes the gas "wet". NGL's are C4-C6 ish and are sold off at a higher price than gas. Most ground water is less than 1000', while the drilling for the target formations will likely be 6000'+. The business is really neat, and you might look into it. Seismic is most likely what they are doing around you. They usually place many receivers around and then thumper trucks create a pulse wave (you probably won't even be able to perceive it) and then a map of densities and reflections will be made to map out possible well sites. The engineering of the whole process is really amazing. I'm in the DJ basin in the Wattenburg field.

[Gator 45/70]

I looked at some 3-D shots today in a meeting, I was surprised at how well the fractured and different layers of plates showed up, Also was shown a salt dome 3-D shot that had pushed thru the bedrock, You have miniature mountains below you, Its truly a science to find the production sands.

[waksupi]

Here locally, we average over 300 quakes per year. No drilling going on, just the Earth being the Earth.

[runfiverun]

no-dak definitely didn't pay attention the first time, the benefits and troubles are a localized phenomenon in some of the western/central cities and the east is untouched and in the dark.
the state is just now trying to make a [re] deal for increased revenue percentages and is seeing all that extra profit being burned off everyday all day long. [even though they give out the permits to do so]
oh a lot of that flairing off is about to change.
the federal government stepped in and is about to really make a dent in production in the state, pushing us back to number-2 or even further down the chain in production.
yeah prices are gonna go up again unless another field takes up the slack.
the Mandan tribal council is now laughing to the bank and is actually on the forefront of action compared to what the state itself is doing.

I guess opening the ground 20 microns could manufacture earthquakes [shrug] but I doubt it since to fissures are already there the fracking just keeps them open enough to retrieve the oil.
btw the ground is opened to 308 diameter [on average at the well opening] and then proppant
[between 20 and 70 mesh in diameter] is pushed in/out from there it is actually propping open the mostly already there fissures not collapsing [breaking anything] or making new ones it.
if you collapse it or just leave the unconnected fissures there the oil won't flow.

[David2011]

The fracking in layman's terms is blasting the bedrock/strata which contains the natural gas. The fractured rock allows the gas to escape to the well more easily. The fracking takes place hundreds if not thousands of feet down. There is no way that it can cause surface subsidence or movement.

There are few chemicals used in drilling and fracking. Wells are drilled with water and the fracking is nearly the same as dynamite. Unless they are within 100 feet of your well I doubt there would be damage.


I would be more concerned with a neighbor pouring out his used motor oil than drilling for gas. Mining were a mineral or coal is removed from the ground presents new and a lot more problems.


WV,

With all due respect, this is misinformation. "Fracking" (fracturing) is NOT blasting. It is a continuous pumping operation in which great volumes of a fluid, usually water and a proppant, either sand or an inert synthetic substance, are pumped into the production zone at a high rate of flow and high pressure. The fluid cracks the rock. The proppant props the cracks open. The result is that the oil or gas is more easily recovered. Explosives are not part of fracturing. OTOH, "perforating" is the use of shaped charges (explosives) to puncture the cement, steel casing and formation for several feet prior to fracturing. It gives fracturing a place to start. The pumping rates can be up to 90 barrels/minute at 15,000 PSI.

My day job is working for one of the major players in this industry.

David

[jebsca]

If you read where the earthquakes are taking place, it's like 4 or 5 miles below the surface. Fracing is deep in this country if it's 2 miles down, but in northern OK, it's more like just over a mile down. Not even close. Something else to keep in mind, the first frac job was in the 1950s. Now that I'm trying to remember, I am drawing a blank. I'll have to get the info on that again.

[Dale in Louisiana]

Natural gas is hard to pay by itself, but many of the wells target "wet" gas. Natural gas liquids (NGL) make gas production profitable and is what makes the gas "wet". NGL's are C4-C6 ish and are sold off at a higher price than gas. Most ground water is less than 1000', while the drilling for the target formations will likely be 6000'+. The business is really neat, and you might look into it. Seismic is most likely what they are doing around you. They usually place many receivers around and then thumper trucks create a pulse wave (you probably won't even be able to perceive it) and then a map of densities and reflections will be made to map out possible well sites. The engineering of the whole process is really amazing. I'm in the DJ basin in the Wattenburg field.

Yes! Since I went to work for a natural gas pipeline (I'm THE electrical guy) I've learned a lot about 'natural gas'. Commercially, it's mostly methane, CH4, but what comes out of the ground is NOT pure methane. If you go back to your high school chemistry, then you know about hydrocarbon chains. Methane is the simplest one, but the wells produce mixtures of methane and varying aomunts of the longer chains. Gathering systems take the stuff from the wells and send it to "midstream" plants. These take the raw gas from the gathering system and strip away that heavy stuff for sale. It's like taking a shovel full of pea gravel and finding rubies in it. The heavy stuff, propanes and butanes and ethylenes are sold to companies that use them for various products.

The remaining, much more pure natural gas goes back into the pipeline where we transport it to companies who sell natural gas for fuel.

Costs? a gallon of gasline ist $3.50 around here right now. That's 125,000 BTU of energy. Today's trade in natural gas is around $4.00 for a MILLION BTU, or one-eighth the cost of gasoline for the same energy.

dale in Louisiana
(having fun in the energy industry since 1977)

[dtknowles]

..............Costs? a gallon of gasline ist $3.50 around here right now. That's 125,000 BTU of energy. Today's trade in natural gas is around $4.00 for a MILLION BTU, or one-eighth the cost of gasoline for the same energy.

dale in Louisiana
(having fun in the energy industry since 1977)

Dale

I think it might be more fair if you used wholesale prices or subtract the taxes from the gasoline. Natural gas will still a lot be cheaper per BTU but not eight times. Wonder what would happen to NG prices if we got used to using it as a motor fuel.

Tim

[runfiverun]

they have been using it for years.
international harvester used to offer propane conversions from the factory on their pickups in the 70's..
ford used to build bronco's and Taurus's that run on natural gas and the gas company would drive them around to read meters and such.


that other type of proppant mentioned above is ceramic.

90 barrels a minute job is not that high, I have done jobs around 140 barrels a minute.
[that's 5880 gallons a minute]
and worked pressures up near 20-thousand psi.

[Dale in Louisiana]

Dale

I think it might be more fair if you used wholesale prices or subtract the taxes from the gasoline. Natural gas will still a lot be cheaper per BTU but not eight times. Wonder what would happen to NG prices if we got used to using it as a motor fuel.

Tim

Good point, Tim!

According figures I just Googled, April's gasoline wholesale price (the latest on that chart) was 2.981/gallon. That makes it only six times as expensive per BTU.

The feds and the states both pile taxes onto gasoline. If you had a compressor and set a vehicle up for using CNG (compressed natural gas) as fuel, a not uncommon bit of technology, you'd still save a bundle, although amortizing the cost of that compressor might stretch it out a bit.

dale in Louisiana

[onceabull]

The aforementioned Intermountain Gas co. has some vehicles running around this part of the world powered by cng..Not sure whether or not it's also being done in the holding company's base country (Montana-N.Dak..) Onceabull

[dtknowles]

Good point, Tim!

According figures I just Googled, April's gasoline wholesale price (the latest on that chart) was 2.981/gallon. That makes it only six times as expensive per BTU.

The feds and the states both pile taxes onto gasoline. If you had a compressor and set a vehicle up for using CNG (compressed natural gas) as fuel, a not uncommon bit of technology, you'd still save a bundle, although amortizing the cost of that compressor might stretch it out a bit.

dale in Louisiana

Yes, I know that some cars run on CNG, at the NASA facilities I have worked at they had some GSA fleet vehicles that ran on CNG. I work with a supplier who makes Nozzles for fueling LNG vehicles but I have never seen a LNG vehicle. NG as a motor fuel will not start affecting the price until it becomes more widespread.

Tim

[dragon813gt]

There are a decent amount of CNG stations around here. The utility companies run a good portion of their fleet on it. It's still not convenient enough unless you stay in the area. And even then some of the stations are spread out. My father is the one that sells the vehicles to the utilities. Every year he sells them more. There are, or at least were, some major tax breaks involved.

When I stopped in at NAPA the other day I saw some Pennzoil that I hadn't before. It's being marketed as made from natural gas. Of course the price was higher.

[Bad Water Bill]

Many years ago when SEARS was the largest retailer IN THE WORLD.

I watched many of their repair trucks being converted to LPG.

Never did hear of any savings as the bean counters took control of the company and it has been a downhill run ever since.

[Dale in Louisiana]

Many years ago when SEARS was the largest retailer IN THE WORLD.

I watched many of their repair trucks being converted to LPG.

Never did hear of any savings as the bean counters took control of the company and it has been a downhill run ever since.

LPG (Liquid Petroleum Gas) is different than compressed natural gas. It runs 90-100,000 BTU per gallon and costs half of gasoline per gallon, and there are no taxes, so there's a savings there. You lose convenience, because it has to be pressurized.

dale in Louisiana