Lee .22 Bator casting

[Hickok]

Received my Lee .22 Bator mold from Midsouth and got to do some casting. Mine is the two cavity. Casts beautifully using ACWW plus some tin. The boolits are coming out at .226" and an average weight of 51.2 gr. dropped from the mold.

Sizing at .225", the gas checks will rotate when turned, but are on good enough that it takes hard finger nail pressure to pop them off. It seems to be a normal issue with all the lee gas check molds I have, as I have only one that checks fit tight on right from the mold. I may take some grinding compound and a boolit and open the gas check portion up a bit, as it is a pain to get the checks to stay in place when putting them in my Lyman 450.

All in all though, this mold cast nice boolits quick and easy, once you get the mold and alloy up to temperature.

[FLHTC]

I have the six cavity and once i mixed up a good alloy i was pleased with, I knocked out 1,000 in no time. I haven't had an issue with my gas checks seating. What kind of checks are you using and how thick are they? I bought some from two members here and one thickness is .010 and the other is .015 and both work fine. I would prefer the .015 since the .010 is more bowl like, making accuracy a coin toss. A Lee push through sizer will square off the .010 checks somewhat but not completely but at 100 yards and under, it doesn't really matter. I can't make clover leafs with my Bator bullets at 100 yards but they're definitely small game worthy.

[Hickok]

FLHTC the checks I am using are aluminum and .010" thickness.

I am going to be using the boolits in a .22 Hornet that I just bought. It is a Model 25 Savage, and it shoots excellent with j-word slugs. Had some trouble with case extraction occasionally, but replaced the spring on the extractor with a heavier one and it seems better.

Haven't had a chance to shoot the .22 Bator in it yet.

[FLHTC]

I once bought 1000 aluminum checks, thinking they were everything the maker said they were and they sit on my reloading bench to this day. I tried about 50 of them and ninety percent of those fell off the bullet. Do yourself a favor and get some good copper checks. I will pm you with info

[Hickok]

FLHTC, many thanks for the pm. I will take your advice

Ken "Hickok"

[bangerjim]

I have found thru purchases and trying them........commercial Cu checks from Hornady are the BEST!!!!! Aluminum ones are thin, fall of, will not crimp on well and.......in general are a waste of time and money. These are NOT the ones made from pop cans, but from what should be the correct thickness and hardness of aluminum sheet.

Every Cu check I have bought from my LGS's works perfectly, fits tight, and locks on every time!

Do what you want, but IMHO non-commercial checks, especially aluminum, are a waste of your resources.

bangerjim

[FLHTC]

I have found thru purchases and trying them........commercial Cu checks from Hornady are the BEST!!!!! Aluminum ones are thin, fall of, will not crimp on well and.......in general are a waste of time and money. These are NOT the ones made from pop cans, but from what should be the correct thickness and hardness of aluminum sheet.

Every Cu check I have bought from my LGS's works perfectly, fits tight, and locks on every time!

Do what you want, but IMHO non-commercial checks, especially aluminum, are a waste of your resources.

bangerjim

Copper is more malleable than aluminum, which makes the difference in the check, not commerce.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

snip...
as it is a pain to get the checks to stay in place when putting them in my Lyman 450.


Yeah, I have the same issue of the Loose GC on the Bator. BUT, once I tried this technique, just putting the GC into the sizer Die first, then the boolit, I found it's actually easier with these tiny boolits.


http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/idealwGC_zpsf93cf89c.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/JonB_in_Glencoe/media/idealwGC_zpsf93cf89c.jpg.html)

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/idealwunsizedbator_zps2c0e78af.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/JonB_in_Glencoe/media/idealwunsizedbator_zps2c0e78af.jpg.html)

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/idealwsizedlubedbator_zps88d0b680.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/JonB_in_Glencoe/media/idealwsizedlubedbator_zps88d0b680.jpg.html)

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/Batorslubedintrays400_zps0afaef23.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/JonB_in_Glencoe/media/Batorslubedintrays400_zps0afaef23.jpg.html)

[bangerjim]

Copper is more malleable than aluminum, which makes the difference in the check, not commerce.

Well......Hornady must have some really powerful "magic socks" they wave over THEIR CU checks, because they ALL (223/30/45) work waaaaaaaaaay better than any of the ones I have tried from home-brew or "Checks-4-U" suppliers. The malleability of CU vs Al is a factor, but the general quality and fit size is also key.

I am all in favor of supporting people on here, but I like buying things that work all the time....every time.

IMHO

bangerjim

[FLHTC]

Well......Hornady must have some really powerful "magic socks" they wave over THEIR CU checks, because they ALL (223/30/45) work waaaaaaaaaay better than any of the ones I have tried from home-brew or "Checks-4-U" suppliers. The malleability of CU vs Al is a factor, but the general quality and fit size is also key.

I am all in favor of supporting people on here, but I like buying things that work all the time....every time.

IMHO

bangerjim

Are you really in favor of supporting them? I am and i buy from them. Sounds like you have the magic sock

I'm not going to plug any names, at the risk of offending any that i don't plug but their checks are absolutely top shelf. I have used Sierra, Hornady and Lyman and these are as good and easier to obtain. Sorry if I don't refer to them with any derogatory connotations.

[FLHTC]

Hickok, you are on the right track. Disregard all this BS

[Ghugly]

I got curious and picked up a Lee gas checked .38 mould. Been casting since the late 60's and never tried gas checked boolits. I guess being ignorant and lucky worked for me. I picked up 1000 aluminum gas checks, snapped them on the boolits, ran them through the Lee sizing die and they came out great. I doubt that I need the checked boolits for most of my shooting, but I use them for my stout .357 loads.

[Anonym]

I just received mine as well and have been trying to work up a decent load for my 26" Encore 1:12. I've shot some 5-shot groups with a range of 4227 and Unique, and tried 9gr of Blue Dot after reading Beagle's articles. Alloy is water-quenched 50 pure/50 coww, and my best accuracy was any charge of Unique within the 6.0-7.4 grain range, getting 1"-1.25" at 50 yards. I know it can do better and am shooting for that at 100 yards.

I'm thinking about re-melting my boolits and going with straight coww (water quenched) to see if I can push them a little harder or get better accuracy. I also have a little 4895, Benchmark, R15, 4320 and 4350 I can play with, but have only seen load data for the 4895. Anyone playing around with this combination care to provide a little guidance?

[gnoahhh]

I have only messed with the Bator in .22 Hornet so far. Cast from air cooled WW alloy and driven with either 2gr. Bullseye, 4gr. Unique, or 6gr. 2400 I get ½" groups at 50 yards and 1-1¼" at 100 with my 1-9" twist barrel. I'm done experimenting with finding accurate loads. Now I'm concentrating on working out drop tables with different sight-in distances. Yon squirrels best have their affairs in order this fall!

I found that softer alloys gave better accuracy in my gun. Water quenched bullets and those cast from linotype-sweetened alloys were definitely much less accurate- all else being equal. I have to admit, too, that this Bator 2-cavity mold is the easiest .22 mold to work with- the only Lee mold I own that gave me instant gratification right out of the box.

[leadman]

i pushed heat treated linotype Bators over 3,600 fps with a full case of H4895 in my Contender 223 Rem 23" bull barrel. Accuracy was around 2" at 100 yards. Slower loads shot into smaller groups.
I use the Hornady checks on the Bators that are heat treated if I install the gc after the heat treat. The alum gc will extrude up the side of the boolit in this case. For slower loads the alum. gc is fine and about all I use in the 30 caliber except for full jacketed velocity loads.
I have been shooting the 22 caliber cast boolits for about 18 years and have settled on straight linotype as it casts well and there are very few culls. All boolits are weight sorted and coated with Hi-Tek coating.

[Hickok]

I took good advice and ordered some Gator copper checks for the Lee Bator boolits. Though they are loose when first putting the check on the boolit, after sizing they are nice and tight! These gator checks really "bite."

Now back to the range. With my first try and the aluminum checks and 4gr. Unigue, 5 shot groups were running 1 1/4" @ 50 yards. If I can tune that down to about 1/2-3/4" @ 50 yds. I will be ready for squirrel hunting!

By the way, my new Hornet is a Savage Model 25. This rifle shoots 3/4 to 1 in. groups @ 100 yds for five shots with a handload using 40 gr. Hornady V-Max. Great shooting rifle, but my one complaint is the use a too much cheap plastic. A cheap plastic trigger guard/floorplate, mag release, and all plastic magazine. I already have a crack in the floorplate near the front stock screw. Will probably use some Acraglass ot JB Weld to reinforce the area.

Just a shame Savage had to go so chinsy and cheap on the floorplate area.

[waco]

I have the 6 cavity Bator and have had some limited success in my CZ527 in. .221 Fireball. ACWW, gator checks, and carnauba red over small charges of Unique and Redot have worked the best. Not much for speed but 5 shot groups in the .75-1.00" range at. 50 yards. I might try some in my Ruger 77 .22-250 also.

[gnoahhh]

I bought 1000 .22 copper checks from a supplier here on this site. They are nicely made and fit well, but I was a bit nonplussed by the rounded bases, being used to the nice flat/square bases of the Hornadys. I made a punch and anvil out of soft steel in my lathe to fit in my antique arbor press, then case hardened it, with the tip of the punch equaling the shank dimensions of the Bator bullet. A bit time consuming to re-punch all these checks but the result is checks that are flat on the bottom and after pushing the checked bullets through the sizer die, the corners are square too, and they don't budge.

Although these discount priced home made copper checks now work every bit as well as the Hornadys, when they run out I'll switch back to the factory checks as the added step abrogates any savings to be had.

Accuracy testing shows no advantage of one over the other after altering the shape of the cheap ones. But, unaltered cheap checks gave accuracy of around an inch at 50 yards versus the 1/2-5/8" I normally get. That rounded bottom makes a difference, at least in my gun/load.


By the way, JonB, do you mind saying where you got those nifty bullet blocks you show in your pic above?

[Garyshome]

Hey guys thanks for doing all the leg work for me. I'll start casting with the Bator in the winter.

[Hickok]

I am getting some good progress with the Bator in my Hornet. With 3.5 gr/Unigue, ACWW, Gator checks, Tac 1 LUBE, SIZED .225, neck sized cases, groups are running .50" @ 50 yards for five shots. (Now and then I get a flyer, but I think that goes with the territory when using cast.) I weigh the boolets to get eliminate "bad" ones.

I have to seat long and use a "soft seat" into the rifling to get the rifle to feed from the magazine. The extremely blunt tip of the boolit wont feed in the Savage if I seat properly just off the rifling.

A question; Would the RCBS 55 gr stabilize in the 1/14" twist of my Savage Model 25? I tend to think it being 55 gr that it would, but I am concerned over the length of the boolit. It looks like it would feed well with the more pointed profile than the Bator.

I am just a bit leery of the new Lyman molds, hearing the talk of them not casting large enough diameters. Any advice would be appreciated.

[dondiego]

By the way, JonB, do you mind saying where you got those nifty bullet blocks you show in your pic above?[/QUOTE]


Those holders look a lot like empty shotgun primer trays to me.


Don

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/Batorslubedintrays400_zps0afaef23.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/JonB_in_Glencoe/media/Batorslubedintrays400_zps0afaef23.jpg.html)


By the way, JonB, do you mind saying where you got those nifty bullet blocks you show in your pic above?


Those holders look a lot like empty shotgun primer trays to me.
Don

The black ones are the tray's from Winchester Large Pistol primer packages. The white one is from some other large CF primer package.
I'd love to see if some shotgun primer tray's would work for 243 or 257 or 6.5mm ...if anyone has any, let me know. I don't reload shotgun shells.
Jon

[Hickok]

Jon B, I tried your method of seating/sizing gas checks and it works great, thanks!

Again I would like to ask if anyone knows if the RCBS 22-055 sp would shoot and stabilize in a 14 inch twist at Hornet velocities? It looks like a long boolit, and from what I read it is about .650" in length, whereas my Bators run .522".

[Hickok]

Well, just because I don't have enough molds[smilie=1: I ordered the Lyman #255438 to give it a try in my Hornet. I have the Bator shooting good at 50 yards, finally settling on 3 gr/ Unigue, and getting 1/2 to 3/4 inch groups for 5 shots, with ACWW, and small handgunprimers.

But the blunt nose of the Bator is a problem in my Savage when it comes to feeding. And this Savage Model 25 will not feed single shot unless the round is first put in the magazine. It has to be seated long to feed, and then let the throat and rifling push the bullet to proper length, which is the boolit seated up to the first lube groove in the case neck. If I don't shoot the round, I need to pull the boolit to the long overall length again to get it to feed, just a PITA.

So I am going to try the Lyman #255438 with its more sloping round nose and see how it feeds. This boolit does closely resemble the 40-45 grain Hornet J-word slugs in nose profile, so it should feed nicely from the magazine.