Cast bullets for Tokarev?

[Lucky]

Hey all, hope you're enjoying the last of summer!

I'm wondering if one can cast bullets for 7.62x25? Would that be the Lee .311-93 mould?

Thanks in advance.

[StarMetal]

Lucky,

You're lucky today, you're getting a reply from THE man on the 7.62x25 and the 30 Luger if you happen to have that too. I have both. Okay, the bullet you want is the next one up the LEE 311-100. That's a 100 gr round nose. Myself and Deputy Al have been shooting that one alot. Deputy is also THE man to talk to on this round. As for powder I've shot it over everything from Unique, Bullseye, WW231, Clays, to 4227 and WW296. You want to seat that bullet deep so the the neck is just past the front lube groove. Most chambers will necessitate this anyways. I also picked me up the Lee factory collet crimp die for both the rounds I mentioned. You can use that Lee 311-90 but I feel it's just a tad on the light side. Probably Lee's choice for the 32acp.

Joe

[Lucky]

Perfect, thanks!

[9.3X62AL]

Lucky--

I've loaded the 30 Mauser/7.62 x 25 Tokarev since ~1990. Lee 100 grain RN and Lyman #313249 have done good work, and each of the three pistols I use the caliber in have differing needs and dimensions--C-96 Mauser, ChiCom Type 54 Tokarev TT-30/33, and CZ-52.

Burying the case mouth into a driving band has worked better at holding bullets in place than trying to turn a crimp into a groove with cast boolits. This applies to Fiocchi and reformed W-W cases.....the Starline cases seem to do a better job of holding boolits in place during my first three loadings with these components.

[JeffG]

Picked up a Romanian TT-C today, 1953 vintage, and a couple hundred rounds of S&B FMJ. Ordered a Lee die set and the Lee 311-100-2R. The gun looks almost pristine but the barrel had a little corrosion in it, but is cleaning up ok. Enjoyed shooting 50 rounds today even if it was crappy weather. We'll see how well I can get this thing to shoot before buying any Starline brass, etc.

[9.3X62AL]

Most Toks shoot high for most people, even using a 6-o'clock hold.

Under the 100 grain Lee RN, work up to 7.0 grains of AA-7. It gets about 1225-1250 FPS. With 86 grain J-words, 7.7 grains/AA-7 is max. It is nice to have a cannelure or crimp groove to turn a roll crimp into. I don't use many Lee dies, can't help with them.

[JeffG]

Thanks for that. I have some AA7. I got in my mold, cast a half dozen from pb (measured .311) and pushed through the barrel. They measured .313 after displacing into the grooves. That raises a little concern for me, but we'll see what happens with my normal alloy and after shooting a few. I have some chamber casting alloy so may cast it so I can study it. I also pushed a slug into the throat so I could get an idea for the max COAL. It was questionable whether I'd be able to crimp in the middle drive band of the 311-100-2R. Going to be interesting. I should have some answers this weekend.


Most Toks shoot high for most people, even using a 6-o'clock hold.

Under the 100 grain Lee RN, work up to 7.0 grains of AA-7. It gets about 1225-1250 FPS. With 86 grain J-words, 7.7 grains/AA-7 is max. It is nice to have a cannelure or crimp groove to turn a roll crimp into. I don't use many Lee dies, can't help with them.

[Outpost75]

In my CZ52 I load Accurate 31-087T, run frosty and water dropped from wheelweights, tumbled in Lee Liquid Alox sized .311 with 5.5 grains of Bullseye for 1400 fps. In Mauser M96 Broomhandle reduce charge 1 grain.

158181

[rbuck351]

I have an early Russian Tok and a CZ52, both of which have tight throats and loose barrels. The barrels mic about .312 but a .310 boolit is as big as will fit in the case and still chamber. I haven't tried neck turning yet but I guess that's the next step. The necks are already pretty thin though.

[spfd1903]

I have an early Russian Tok and a CZ52, both of which have tight throats and loose barrels. The barrels mic about .312 but a .310 boolit is as big as will fit in the case and still chamber. I haven't tried neck turning yet but I guess that's the next step. The necks are already pretty thin though.
I ran into the same roadblock with a Polish TT33. Horrible accuracy with any diameter under .310, but .311 would not chamber. Took 50 once fired Starline cases and reamed the I.d. to .311 before sizing. Loaded a variety of Lyman 85 grain, 76 grain and Lee 113 grain boolits. All the boolits showed increased accuracy. The heavy Lee boolit was the best with a 1 inch group at ten yards for 10 rounds. Don't have a chronograph, but the same load blasted through 9" of wet phone book at 20 feet. Reaming and heavy boolits did the trick.

[Duckdog]

I gotta ask... where'd you come up with a load for the Lee soupcan? I have looked high and low and have never found one. I would love to come up with one for Unique or Universal, but.. I have also had good luck reaming the inside neck as well

[spfd1903]

Lee second edition. Acc#7, 7.0 grains. Took awhile to find something the TT33 liked.

[Duckdog]

Thanks. I just looked at the Lee 2nd. You must have used data for the 100 gr and dropped it back a tad? I use Unique on the 93 gr ad am hoping I could find something using it. I might just have to pick up some Acc #7, if I can find any.

[spfd1903]

Correct. Extrapolated from the Lee manual with a variety of powder/weight combinations.

[Hamish]

NOE has a buy going for one that should work well also.

Al, it kind of spooked me seeing 10.5 years between post #4 and post #6, I'd like to personally thank you for the years of enjoyable reading on this forum that you have contributed, both technically and anecdotally.

[9.3X62AL]

Thank you, sir. Hope to hang around for a while longer.

[JeffG]

I got around to doing a chamber cast on the Romanian TT-C and actually have plenty of room in the neck area of the chamber to work with so don't need to sweat turning the necks, at least not on the S&B brass I'm currently using. The neck measurement on the chamber cast right at the edge of the throat area was .339 and a S&B factory round measures ~ .330 in that area, so I have no issue fitting a bigger bullet in the brass. The start of the throat measures ~ .313 on the chamber cast. A .311 PB slug pushed through the barrel comes out measuring .313 after it displaces into the grooves. If I load the Lee 311-100-2R to OAL = 1.380, which placed the case mouth right at the top edge of the middle driving band, they will fit the magazine fine but an occasional tumble lubed round will not drive completely into battery. If I eject the round I can see the interference at a couple points, consistent with the mold part line that are measuring ~ .313. The bullets are coming out of the mold typically .311 X .313 using COWW+3% tin, then get a coat of LLA+JPW. I have a .313 H&I die with 226 top punch coming. It might help to not have the TL on the nose where it can interfere with the chambering... I hope.

The accuracy on the first 50 rounds I loaded this past weekend was lousy IMO, but I am still working it up and getting used to the gun. The factory ammo wasn't really any better, fliers here and there, but could just be me. The gun itself looks great but the barrel interior is a little rough with some pits, though the rifling appears okay. I had no leading or key holing, so that was nice to see. I ended up with the .5cc scoop of Accurate #7 which comes out to 7 grains exactly.

I received the Lee Factory Crimp Die after I shot the first 50 rounds I loaded. It's a collet type and I like the way it works. I have 100 more loaded up, and crimped with 1/2 turn in and not 1 full turn the Lee instruction indicates to use, so we'll see what that produces. I shot most of the first 50 rounds I loaded over the chrony, with just a mild taper trimp, and I really had a swing in velocities, which I didn't like, so it will be interesting to see what difference the collet type crimp makes.

[JeffG]

In my CZ52 I load Accurate 31-087T, run frosty and water dropped from wheelweights, tumbled in Lee Liquid Alox sized .311 with 5.5 grains of Bullseye for 1400 fps. In Mauser M96 Broomhandle reduce charge 1 grain.

158181

I just ordered this mold for a CZ-52 recently picked up. I have been using a Lee 311-100-2R but am itching to see how much better this does in the CZ. Just waiting for it to show up. I have enjoyed working on loading for the CZ-52, it has been a fun one. Will report after I have some results.

Been working on a Green Dot load for it as of late, 5.0 grains, which has been good for 1245 fps average out of the CZ. 4.3 grains was good for 1140 fps.

[JeffG]

I have an early Russian Tok and a CZ52, both of which have tight throats and loose barrels. The barrels mic about .312 but a .310 boolit is as big as will fit in the case and still chamber. I haven't tried neck turning yet but I guess that's the next step. The necks are already pretty thin though.

Same issue in my TT-C, tight throat but loose barrel. The groove diameter is .313 but the throat won't always take a .311 and see no point taking it to a .310. The CZ-52 has a looser throat and needs a bigger bullet for it.

[rbuck351]

Well, I turned the necks on a few cases and loaded in .314 3/4 jacketed 85gr swc that I make and fired a few for function and all worked well. It was too darned cold to make any real accuracy test but at least it wasn't throwing them all over the place. More testing later when warmer.

[GhostHawk]

Lee also makes a .314 90 grain that for me works much better than the other 90 grain bullets.

http://leeprecision.com/mold-dc-tl314-90-swc.html
(http://leeprecision.com/mold-dc-tl314-90-swc.html)
(http://leeprecision.com/mold-dc-tl314-90-swc.html)

I sized mine down from .314 to .311 and loaded. The truncated cone worked a lot better with my CZ-52's tight throat.
It also makes a nice light load for my .312 Mosin.

I was shooting mine with pretty light loads of Red Dot.

[btreanor]

Tagged for future reference

[Freightman]

I use the TC boolit in my TTC and my CZ52 also the 93gr RN both are accurate.

[JeffG]

Well, I turned the necks on a few cases and loaded in .314 3/4 jacketed 85gr swc that I make and fired a few for function and all worked well. It was too darned cold to make any real accuracy test but at least it wasn't throwing them all over the place. More testing later when warmer.

I am intrigued by the above that I highlighted in bold. You mind elaborating on this further?

[leftiye]

Hand swaged.

[rbuck351]

Well, I bought this old Swag-O-Matic and made a few dies for it mostly for reforming cast boolits. Then someone gave me a few 50BMG spent primers. They happen to be 5/16 or .3125 outer diameter. The Swag-O-Matic is designed to make half jacketed pistol bullets. So I use about a 3/16 drill in a drill press and a pair of wire terminal crimping pliers to hold the primer. Set the drill bit to stop about .030 from the table and run the bit into the primer anvil and they pop right out. Now I have a half jacket. I throw a bunch in the lead casting pot and put them in the wood stove for a while to anneal. Then I take a cast 258 bullet of about 73grs put it in the case lubed half jacket and into the Swag-O-Matic and out comes a neat 85gr 3/4 jacketed SWC at .314. I can then size them down to .308 or what ever using a lube sizer with the proper sizer. I found a guy online that shoots 50 BMG that had about 5000 spent primers that I bought for a penny each. Mine look a lot like the Lee boolit that Ghosthawk shows except it has a jacket that goes up to about the top lube groove. I use the Swag-O-Matic to reform cast boolits as well. i bought a Lee 459-405 that casts way under size and not round for my 45/70. I made a 459 die and a top punch the shape I wanted. I sized them, well sort of as it didn't do much other than lube them. Then swaged them to an even .459. this dropped groups from about 5 to 6" at 50 yds to about 3/4" at 50. This boolit was really bad as cast. Anyway I haven't had the time or weather to fully test the half jacket .314s yet. Making stuff that works good from junk is fun.

[JeffG]

Well, I bought this old Swag-O-Matic and made a few dies for it mostly for reforming cast boolits. Then someone gave me a few 50BMG spent primers. They happen to be 5/16 or .3125 outer diameter. The Swag-O-Matic is designed to make half jacketed pistol bullets. So I use about a 3/16 drill in a drill press and a pair of wire terminal crimping pliers to hold the primer. Set the drill bit to stop about .030 from the table and run the bit into the primer anvil and they pop right out. Now I have a half jacket. I throw a bunch in the lead casting pot and put them in the wood stove for a while to anneal. Then I take a cast 258 bullet of about 73grs put it in the case lubed half jacket and into the Swag-O-Matic and out comes a neat 85gr 3/4 jacketed SWC at .314. I can then size them down to .308 or what ever using a lube sizer with the proper sizer. I found a guy online that shoots 50 BMG that had about 5000 spent primers that I bought for a penny each. Mine look a lot like the Lee boolit that Ghosthawk shows except it has a jacket that goes up to about the top lube groove. I use the Swag-O-Matic to reform cast boolits as well. i bought a Lee 459-405 that casts way under size and not round for my 45/70. I made a 459 die and a top punch the shape I wanted. I sized them, well sort of as it didn't do much other than lube them. Then swaged them to an even .459. this dropped groups from about 5 to 6" at 50 yds to about 3/4" at 50. This boolit was really bad as cast. Anyway I haven't had the time or weather to fully test the half jacket .314s yet. Making stuff that works good from junk is fun.


Thanks a bunch for this, very cool.