Cost to get in to casting

[s.billy]

I was wondering by the time you have everything to cast what is the investment. I have come up with 200lb of sheet soft lead. Just wondering if I can afford to get in to casting. Thanks billy

[smokesahoy]

You can cast with an old cast iron pot, a ladle from the thrift store and a 20 dollar Lee mold. So, maybe 25 bucks including gas to drive to the thrift store?

[SteveS]

A Lee mold will cost about $20.

A Lee dipper will run about $6.

Lee Alox lube is about $6.

If you can find a cast iron pot and a Colman stove you wont need a furnace. Otherwise a Lee melter furnace is around $35.

A lead thermometer is around $35.

That will get you a basic setup. You'll probably want a sizer as time goes on.

I figure you already have reloading gear. If not that's a whole other deal.

[s.billy]

I already reload so that's taken care of do you have to have a sizer to start

[hornady308]

A thermometer is nice, but not a necessity, IMO. I got by without one for many years.

[WILCO]

I already reload so that's taken care of do you have to have a sizer to start

Get this book:

[StratsMan]

I already reload so that's taken care of do you have to have a sizer to start

As with many questions asked on this forum, the accurate answer is... "It depends..."

If your mold drops a nice round boolit, and it's pretty close to the diameter you need for your gun, then you can get away without a sizer... If the boolit drops 3-4 thousandths OVER the desired boolit diameter, then undesirable things can happen to pressure in your barrel... That's where the sizer can save your bacon... Accuracy improves with concentric boolits, too (ie: sized boolits) But if "plinking" accuracy is all you seek, and the diameter is correct, then sizing can be secondary....

I suspect there are lots of guys on this forum who shoot un-sized boolits, but I bet most of them went through the learning curve of finding what works best in their gun then backed off to a specific boolit that worked un-sized....

[brtelec]

Just like reloading, it can be very reasonable to get started. Just like reloading, the cost never ends. There is always that next item that you need that will magically make it faster or easier or more efficient. Just like reloading it is a sickness!

That said, what caliber are you thinking of reloading? I have at the least a spare ladle I will send you if you PM me.

[jonas302]

No you don't have to have sizer to start you can use the lee sizer kits with your press they include lube
what are you going to cast for? you may need some different lead to harden what you have

Casting is extremely affordable to get into considering the cost of a box of bullets will buy you a lee mold to turn out who knows how many bullets it can also be addictive and expensive just like guns most people don't need ten deer rifles but it is fun to acquire them

[bangerjim]

You can start cheap, but you may get disappointed using low-end stuff like coleman stoves, CI pots and pans, and Lee dippers for CASTING.

I have found from friends that have tried Coleman stoves to cast, it is very difficult to control the temp and hence the boolit quality you get. And it takes up a lot of room to accomplish a very simple task......melting lead. I leave the stove for camping.

You can use the stove to melt your soft, COWW's and other alloys to make your casting ingots. A good heavy CI or steel pot works there well.


You will need more alloys than just that soft lead if you going to shoot anything other than BP.

Lee molds are excellent, I use the 6 hole ones if available for that size/cal. Those will run you around $40/mold. Two hole molds work but take a very long time and effort to cast and run about $20 each. You can find them at various prices around those mentioned.

Personally, I rarely ladle cast. I use the Lyman bottom side pour ladle when I do. The Lee thing is only good for a stirring spoon! I prefer the Lee 4-20 bottom pour electric melter. You can find them for around $65 but is worth the ease and speed which you can cast. And the temp control for quality boolits.

But it depends on your wallet. I recommend starting out with a least a 4-20 pot and a couple molds of the right cal/size for your gun. You never did tell us what you are desiring to cast for.

Good luck and hope you have great success. You already do commercial boolit reloading and that is good! This is "lead thing" NOT rocket science.....but the correct tools are a good start.

bangerjim

[s.billy]

Right now I load in lead is 9mm, 45-70, and 44mag. I also do shoot traditional muzzleloaders

[dikman]

Smelting stuff down to clean it up and make ingots can be pretty cheap - cast iron or stainless pot of some sort (large saucepan), camping stove to melt it, slotted spoon (or drill holes in one), a soup ladle to pour with and something to pour into. The same setup can be used to ladle pour boolits, but an electric furnace makes life easier. I found the bottom pour to be a very civilized way to cast, and the Lee pots are a pretty inexpensive way to start.

Of course, if you get hooked then be prepared to start spending!!

[dragon813gt]

I've spent thousands of dollars on casting related tooling. Buy the beet you can afford at the time.

[500MAG]

You can certainly cast cheap. My casting cost went up exponentially once I found this forum.

[ncbearman]

Smelting
Cast Iron Pot/skillet from thrift store- $5
Side burner on your grill, turkey fryer, coleman stove if you have one- $0
Stainless thrift store Strainer & Ladle- $10
Thrift store candles (for fluxing)- $5?
Ingot Mould- $15
Total $35

Ladle Casting
Cast Boolit Handbook- $25
Ladle- $10
Lee Mould- $25
Lee Push Through Sizer- $17 https://fsreloading.com/manufacturer/lee-precision/lee-lube-sizing-kit/
Total $77

Bottom Pour Casting (recommended)
Cast Boolit Handbook- $25
20# Lee Melter- $60 (spend the little extra for 20# over 10#)
Lee Mould- $25
Lee Push Through Sizer- $17
Total $127

Once you decide which way you want to go shop around on this forum and you will be able to save some money. In fact alot of guys here will offer up stuff to new casters wanting to get started. Get the book and read up elsewhere about your new hobby. You will love it!

Oh btw- you may want to put in some wheel weights with that sheet lead to harden it up a bit for handgun.

[JohnH]

I quit thinking about the cost thirty years ago. It cost more than I could afford then, it costs more than I can afford now, but in those 30 years I've either convinced SWMBO that I save money doing this, or she's heard that so many times she quit listening to me... Come to think of it I don't think she listens to me at all... [smilie=1:

[ncbearman]

I quit thinking about the cost thirty years ago. It cost more than I could afford then, it costs more than I can afford now, but in those 30 years I've either convinced SWMBO that I save money doing this, or she's heard that so many times she quit listening to me... Come to think of it I don't think she listens to me at all... [smilie=1:

I have told my sons when I'm dead, to not let their mother sell my casting stuff for what I told her I paid for them.

[bdicki]

It's a slippery slope.

[John Boy]

Billy, as the fellas have cost out the basics for you - it really isn't expensive to get started casting. It gets more expensive depending on the number of firearms you own of different calibers.

Just this afternoon, on a whim, I counted one drawer of my molds - 78. My spreadsheet thus far is 206 molds. It becomes additive - dependent on caliber, smokeless & black powder firearms you have but I keep telling the Mrs ...
I don't chase women, hang out in bars, only own a duck boat and no race cars or motorcycles! You have more shoes, pocket books and sweaters than I have molds ... Silence![smilie=p:

[blikseme300]

It's a slippery slope.

Yep, but what a ride! In the past 8 years I have gone from a 10# Lee pot, a 2-cavity mold and a Lee Pro1000 to a whole work shop dedicated to casting & reloading. There are many hobbies that cost more than what I spent on all of this and they will leave you with nothing to show for it. Then there is the therapeutic value... [smilie=l:

[s.billy]

Thanks for all the help got into reloading a couple of years ago and have shot more than I did before. I see how it could multiply like that. I've got three boys so my wife hears all the time it's for them to shoot more but I think she see through that now.

[EDG]

If you get contradictory information don't be surprised.

Many pistol casters use bottom pour furnaces that can cast the little pistol bullets. The same bottom pour often will not cast a heavy 45-70 bullet much less 2 in a double cavity mould.

If you start off with a dipper you can cast any bullet but you may have to modify the dipper for larger bullets. They sometimes have to be drilled out.

All I am saying is some people only cast for one kind of firearm and their advice may not apply to both rifles and hand guns.

[BruceB]

I must differ to a degree with EDG.

Although I do not use a LEE furnace, I've heard the same tales about using ANY bottom-pour furnace to cast heavy bullets.

My RCBS Pro-Melt has given me excellent bullets for at least twenty years, and the heaviest to date have come from a Hoch nose-pour mould. These bullets are for the .50 Browning cartridge, and weigh 888 grains in my alloy.

I've also had good results with such things as RCBS and Lyman .50 bullets of up to 565 grains, and many different .45 designs up to well over 500 grains.

All of these were cast from the bottom-pour pot, so it CAN be done.

[ssnow]

Thanks for all the help got into reloading a couple of years ago and have shot more than I did before. I see how it could multiply like that. I've got three boys so my wife hears all the time it's for them to shoot more but I think she see through that now.

As you can see, the cost really depends, so I don't know what it will cost you. But look at what not having the ability to cast is costing you now.

It's costing you time spent with your boys casting and shooting, doing something together that you will all enjoy, and giving them such good memories of Dad to hold when you are gone. You can always make more money, but can never regain time. Jump In :)

[6bg6ga]

109980Its like reloading.... we tell ourselves its cheaper to reload than it is to purchase ammunition but when you look over the costs involved I believe you can buy cheaper depending on how much you shoot. The difference being when ammunition isn't on the shelf at your local store you have the ability to make your own provided you are stocked up on components. The same applies to casting. Ever tried to purchase bullets when there weren't any on the store shelves? If you are set up to make your own you are ahead of the game and will have ammunition when others are saying they wished they could find ammo for their guns.

Some are setup to manufacture large quantities of bullets with commercial casting machines and some go the simple less complex route. A simple dipper, pot, and simgle cavity mold will get you going. Like any man activities some enjoy the act of melting lead and making bullets as do some women here.

[GhostHawk]

You can cast effectively with nothing more than a cast iron fry pan, a ladle, and a heat source.

I've cast for years, everything from .45 caliber round balls for muzzle loading, fishing sinkers (3 molds) pair of .312 lee molds for Mosin Nagant and my SKS, and lately been back using the .45 caliber round balls for slingshot ammo.

Casting is an investment, yes it costs some money to get setup, but it will save you money in the long run.

How much do you pay for 4-8 of those fishing sinkers? I cast mine by the thousand and do it in whatever size I want. Do-it fishing molds are very reasonable.

Once your casting, why not spread out a little?

Its all tools in the box.
You can invest the money, learn the skills required, and make your own ammo. OR you can spend 20,30,40$ per hundred for cast bullets.
Project that forward in time over a thousand bullets (pretty minor IMO) That is more than enough to get you setup casting. And once you started, why the sky's the limit!

[jsizemore]

How much do you think it will cost for you and 3 boys to shoot if you have to buy your bullets? The boys will learn (and you too) what it takes to MAKE ammo!

[s.billy]

Thanks for all the help I'm going to start looking for some mold and get the lyman cast book and start slow and go from there

[ncbearman]

Thanks for all the help I'm going to start looking for some mold and get the lyman cast book and start slow and go from there

I'm not sure of someone referenced this yet or not, but it too is a great resource and read. Enjoy!

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

[RP]

Lots of good advice here and lots of good people to help you. I think your on the right path start small and cheap see if you like it then you can take it to the next step. To many go all out just to find out its not for them good luck to you bud.

[el34]

Smelting
Cast Iron Pot/skillet from thrift store- $5
Side burner on your grill, turkey fryer, coleman stove if you have one- $0
Stainless thrift store Strainer & Ladle- $10
Thrift store candles (for fluxing)- $5?
Ingot Mould- $15
Total $35

Ladle Casting
Cast Boolit Handbook- $25
Ladle- $10
Lee Mould- $25
Lee Push Through Sizer- $17 https://fsreloading.com/manufacturer/lee-precision/lee-lube-sizing-kit/
Total $77

Bottom Pour Casting (recommended)
Cast Boolit Handbook- $25
20# Lee Melter- $60 (spend the little extra for 20# over 10#)
Lee Mould- $25
Lee Push Through Sizer- $17
Total $127



Lots of good info and ideas in this thread, and imo bearman's summaries are excellent. A few additions- I'm still smelting on my bbq sideburner in a 6qt stainless stewpot, $6.97 at Walmart. And using $3 muffin tins for ingot molds, $8 total for a stainless soup ladle and slotted spoon, Walmart stuff (no wandering around looking at garage sales and flea markets). And I'm totally satisfied with this stuff even though I could probably kick in $$ for more noble equipment.

The Lee 4-20 bottom pour is well worth the price whenever you can swing it.

I didn't see it mentioned yet- a significant part of the fun is the quest for lead. Kinda like the thrill of a treasure hunt and only as costly as you want it to be.

[ncbearman]

I didn't see it mentioned yet- a significant part of the fun is the quest for lead. Kinda like the thrill of a treasure hunt and only as costly as you want it to be.

HOW TRUE! I love lead hunting. It takes me longer to get it but I still get 5 gal. buckets for free. I don't have luck at the large tire franchises. The small mom and pop shops is best. Sometimes their "excited" to give it to me. I usually carry around a couple .45 Colt or .45acp rounds to show as samples.

[el34]

The large tire stores have contracts and rules and lots of reasons they won't sell you wheel weights, but the little places will. I learned here to do a yellowpages.com search for 'used tires' - there's your high probabilities. Take a bucket.

Hey billy- I sent you a PM, hope you saw the thing at the top right.

[tigweldit]

s.billy, I have some bad (good) news for you,you already have the addiction. You have a 9,.44,45/70 and a muzzleloader. You are a reloader. And now you are on a casting web site. How do you think this will turn out? If,like me, it will be one of the greatest things of your life. I wish you all the best. I have been shooting,casting,reloading and loving the challenge for over 50 years. I've been blessed with some great guns, and some real clunkers. The MOA challenge is what makes it fun for me. Be safe. Have fun. And share your experiences.

[Bad Water Bill]

I started out smelting and casting with an old Coleman single burner,a steel 3# coffee can and a gravy spoon for removing the junk that was in the many 5 gal buckets of WW that I smelted.

That was around 1965 or so.

Just a few years and many many buckets later I still use the same stove but have had to replace the coffee can a couple of times.

Yes MANY other items have followed me home since then for casting but that WAS all I needed for casting BOOLITS for that Herters 44 Mag.

KISS was my way then and it can be yours till you see if you like my addiction and your wife is enjoying the extra trips to the range to use her own guns.

[TenTea]

KISS was my way then and it can be yours till you see if you like my addiction...

Bill, I never would have guessed that about you.

http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/ultimateclassicrock.com/files/2012/09/KissKruise.jpg


I'm not sure of someone referenced this yet or not, but it too is a great resource and read. Enjoy!

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

^^^ Great suggestion!

[Bad Water Bill]

TenTea

NOU U DUN ID

da nexd nok u herz wil B GIRTY

Den U kin showz usen a nu aviter wid yur fase weren a mule dent on ur forhed redn G I R T Y.

U hadda none she hatd dem kutie kidz.

[TenTea]

TenTea

NOU U DUN ID

da nexd nok u herz wil B GIRTY

Den U kin showz usen a nu aviter wid yur fase weren a mule dent on ur forhed redn G I R T Y.

U hadda none she hatd dem kutie kidz.

Bill: Are you Scandahoovian? Sveedish mebbe? :bigsmyl2:


http://youtu.be/9OfsABOGw3c

[Bad Water Bill]

Bill: Are you Scandahoovian? Sveedish mebbe? :bigsmyl2:


Ya sure you betcha i am a svenska poika.[smilie=s:

[TenTea]

Ya sure you betcha i am a svenska poika.[smilie=s:


:lol:

[ncbearman]

Now Bill...........I think your pullin the trigger a little early sendin Girty in! Give him another chance!

[ridenclimb]

Hi s.billy,

Hope you enjoy the process of casting. I only started about a year or so ago and have cast thousands of 45 and 9mm. It's great to be able to shoot for $3/box - that is less than 22 ammo these days. One thing you probably already thought of but worth mentioning is some protective gear. A pair of leather welding gloves and safety glasses at a minimum. Full face shield and respirator recommended if you are going to be smelting wheel weights. Also if you are going to cast with anyone else make sure everyone understands the dangers of water getting into the pot. The tinsel fairy can ruin your day in a big way as some here can attest. Be smart. Read up. Take your time. Wear your gear and enjoy the ride.

[Garyshome]

If you try to find the cost before you jump in you most likely won't jump in!

[captaint]

I was in the dept. store with my wife a few weeks back. She starts looking at handbags......
I say, "really, another handbag??" She says "yeah, they're like boolit molds.....................She had me. Dead to rights... I shut up. Mike

[Petrol & Powder]

It's a slippery slope.:bigsmyl2:

[500MAG]

If you want to cast and reload and save money, buy the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook & Reloading manual and stay away from this forum.:kidding:

[GoodOlBoy]

The only way i would differ from most of the really good information given is in adding a second book to the mix. Now while I DO think the Lyman Cast Book is THE BEST resource on cast bullets, there is also some good information in the Lee Precision Modern Reloading 2nd Ed book (2003), particularly if using lee molds. However if you have the budget for only one book the Lyman book CANNOT be beat!

I haven't been casting long (been reloading for years) but I don't find a problem with the cast iron and camp stove combo for casting. Yeah if you want to do HIGH volume it could be a pain. Eventually I will break down and buy a lee pro 4 pot for bullet casting, but I will still smelt/ingot off of the coleman stove.

GoodOlBoy

[Petrol & Powder]

I started casting for a cap & ball revolver and used a cast iron pot over a campfire! I can't recommend going that primitive but I wanted to be able to say that I could do it and I've long since moved on.

Later on I decided to get serious about casting and move onto handgun projectiles that weren't just round balls.

I did some research and elected to buy a Lyman lubrisizer. I never considered pan lubing or tumble lubing even though those methods were initially cheaper. It seemed to be a better course of action to cast bullets that were a bit too large and swage them down to the exact diameter I needed. The application of the lube during the sizing operation was just a side benefit.

I started with a Coleman single burner gasoline camp stove from Walmart that I got on sale for less than $40 and a small iron pot. I would recommend skipping that step and going straight to some type of electric pot.
I later went with a Lee 4-20 bottom pour pot for speed and cost. If that pot ever dies I'll move up to something better. For now, I'm happy with that inexpensive Lee pot and I think I'm not alone with that assessment.

That leaves you with the need to purchase sizing dies, molds, mold handles and some safety gear. The rest of the needed items are things you can scrounge up; table, old towel, mallet, spoon, metal can for the dross, flux and other assorted minor items.


Good luck, it is a slippery slope indeed.

[Psypher]

I used a cast iron grill as a melting oven for my lead in a cast iron skillet, deeper is better. Newb finds that others were spot on about.....

Slotted stainless spoon
Stainless ladel or a casr iron ladel
Metal cupcake pans from a dollar store, for better lead storage in ammo cans
Heavy duty leather gloves
Safety glasses
Leather boots
Long pants or a full length heavy duty leather apron
Moulds like Lee to stay cheap or step up to RCBS and Lyman via ebay or a retailer
Lee size and lube kits to stay cheap

Buy lead in bulk and negotiate on price if you have to process it from wheel weights or sheet lead with glue strips. I have 600 pounds of recovered wheel weight cupcakes and I feel neglected that it isn't twice that amount.

7,000 to 1 is the alleged grains to pound conversion. In my 112 to 130 grain 9mm that is 55-60 bullets per pound. 600 pounds would be roughly 33,000 rounds.

Just wait, next you will want to start making Ben's red for lube!

[KCSO]

Over the years about 10,000 or so...

I started on a wood stove with an old cast iron pot and a $10 mould for the round balls for my muzzleloader. I used free scrap lead from drippings from an old plumbers pot. I fluxed with bees wax and must have made a couple thousand balls or so. I still have that first mould in my now extensive collection. I started casting bullets with an old ideal all in one loader and mould for a 30-30 and I think I still have that one too. I pregressed to a 310 tool set up and just kept going from there. In about 1970 or so My father inlaw gave me his #55 measure and his #45 sizer and they still work today. If you byu used and scrounge lead where you can and don't start fanch and work up slow you can get going for little or nothing. Until 1979 I never had a new piece of equipment and most of my stuff came from yard sales and such. I can see no difference in shooting bullets sized in the old free 45 as compared to the new 4500.

[Petrol & Powder]

"I can see no difference in shooting bullets sized in the old free 45 as compared to the new 4500. "

Very True! Used gear is not only less expensive but a lot of the old equipment was high quality.

[ncbearman]

"I can see no difference in shooting bullets sized in the old free 45 as compared to the new 4500. "

Very True! Used gear is not only less expensive but a lot of the old equipment was high quality.

Just have to make sure the alignment is right. Some of them have been abused.

[Bad Water Bill]

One thing that every Nubee needs is a round bottomed bottle of "BULLPLATE LUBE" ordered from one of our longest running SPONSORS.

Immediately after placing your order RUN do not walk to your favorite store and purchase a 4 pack of food coloring at the baking supply section.

As soon as you get home pour out the coloring and rince the 4 containers and set in the sun to dry.

When your order arrives from somewhere so far back in the remote reaches of undiscovered Montana carefully open the carton that Tina lovingly packed and fill all 4 bottles.

Next put the mostly full round bottomed bottle back in the original shipping box and show your youngest child where it is being stashed.

Each food coloring bottle will probably serve you for 3-5 YEARS if you faithfully follow Dans instructions.

Do not follow my instructions and I can guaran ---t you that as soon as you set the original container down it will AUTOMATICALLY fall on its side and the carefully formulated secret formula will pour out onto your floor and be lost FOREVER.

Sorry Tina and Dan but just had to have a little fun here.

This is the absolutely best product to prevent leading buildup on your sprue plate.

[dh2]

109980Its like reloading.... we tell ourselves its cheaper to reload than it is to purchase ammunition but when you look over the costs involved I believe you can buy cheaper depending on how much you shoot. The difference being when ammunition isn't on the shelf at your local store you have the ability to make your own provided you are stocked up on components. The same applies to casting. Ever tried to purchase bullets when there weren't any on the store shelves? If you are set up to make your own you are ahead of the game and will have ammunition when others are saying they wished they could find ammo for their guns.

Some are setup to manufacture large quantities of bullets with commercial casting machines and some go the simple less complex route. A simple dipper, pot, and simgle cavity mold will get you going. Like any man activities some enjoy the act of melting lead and making bullets as do some women here.

I think it does save a lot Fri at the range I fired one box of .280 AI Nosler from Midway would be $50.00 and one box of .375 H&H that can run from $50.00 to $80.00 that is over $100.00 for a play day I can not do many of those , but I look at it as equipment been paid for years and a lot of time killed, cost was less than $20.00 and we care for my mother in law in our home so the time killed out of the house is worth a lot.

[Bad Water Bill]

I just checked Midways price for my 222.

$10.99 for a box of 20 IF they had any.

A pound of PB will produce over 100 55 gr boolits.


Now add the primer and powder and do my own reloading.

I can spend all day shooting that rifle and never spend $25.00.

+ it was relaxing to cast my own,make my own gas checks and reload the FREE 223 brass I collected at the range years ago and converted.

What is not to like about that?

[JWFilips]

Billy,
It's not how much it cost to start casting it is How much you need to pay for the sickness once you start....you can never stop...you can never stop ...you can never stop!:shock:

[Bad Water Bill]

The major problem is that unlike all other addictions "OBOMACARE" does not cover this illness.

[6bg6ga]

I just checked Midways price for my 222.

$10.99 for a box of 20 IF they had any.

A pound of PB will produce over 100 55 gr boolits.


Now add the primer and powder and do my own reloading.

I can spend all day shooting that rifle and never spend $25.00.

+ it was relaxing to cast my own,make my own gas checks and reload the FREE 223 brass I collected at the range years ago and converted.

What is not to like about that?

It sounds great until you figure in the cost of the reloading press and dies and powder measure and scale. I keep telling myself how much I am saving everytime I fire up the Mark IV Ballisti-cast bullet caster and my bullet sizing/lubing machines. Did I mention I could have bought a lot of bullets for the 4K I have in the machine and assortment of bullet molds and sizing dies?

[JWFilips]

But when you do it all yourself it is a worthy reward!!! nothing like putting 5 in the x ring knowing it is all your doing!!!

[tazman]

I was in the dept. store with my wife a few weeks back. She starts looking at handbags......
I say, "really, another handbag??" She says "yeah, they're like boolit molds.....................She had me. Dead to rights... I shut up. Mike

Wise man.

[JWFilips]

Wise man.

Sickness, I tell you! Just can't have enough!!!
I'm even thinking of casting for calibers I don't have (Yet!)

[Bad Water Bill]

Like a car, you have to hold onto the stuff and yes sometimes for a loooong while it amortizes itself.

Somehow after 40+ years it still seems like I always WANT more stuff.

No one forced me to buy the Dillon 550 or the neat RCBS pot BUT.:bigsmyl2:

And yes I still use the OLD Coleman single burner stove,soup ladle,and the 44 mould I bought USED back then as well as the 45 sizer and 55 powder dispenser.