NSSA & rifled musket shooters - what is available for sizing minie balls?

[bedbugbilly]

Many years ago when I was shooting NSSA, Rapine made a reasonably priced and simple hand operated press to size minie balls. They of course are out of business. I have been Googling and trying to find a source for a reasonably priced and simple hand operated press similar to what Rapine used to make for sizing but haven't come up with anything.

What are those who are shooting NSSA using now for sizing? I'm primarily looking for 58 cal so am looking for sizing press and dies in the .575, .577 range? Is there anybody out there making a simple sizing press and dies?

Thanks.

[Gunor]

Sizing die - I bought a simple die from Dixie Arms. Works

Geoff in Oregon

[fouronesix]

There was a thread here a few months ago about this subject. I don't know of a press/die system currently available but with some ingenuity shouldn't be too be too hard to come up with something. What comes to mind for a "press" system would be a Lee type push through die with ram. The simpler Minié sizers currently on the market, I'm aware of, are available from Lodgewood and Pedersoli. They are push through types and mallet (not press) operated. I use a couple of the Lodgewood push throughs with a mallet driven ram of my own making. I'm sure someone here will have more specifics on what's available.

[Skirmisher]

I use the push throughs for all my big boolits. I built a fixture out of scrap lumber, drilled a hole suitable for the dies, clamp it down on the drill press and use a 1/2" dowel chucked as a pusher. Works great.

[Rebel Dave]

You can get sizing dies to fit in your RCBS, or Lyman lube/sizers from Lodgewood Mfg., or S & S Firearms in NYC.
Another sizer, that I use is available from North East trade Co. 1-570-546-2061, in Muncy, PA. ask for John. It is a sizer that mounts in your reloading press, and you push the bullet thru from the bottom like the Lee. He makes them in a lot of sizes.
Lots of N-SSA skirmishers use them, as do I. They work good. I have mine mounted in one of the the Lee "C" presses.
Be paitient when calling, as John is getting up in his years, and can be hard to get a hold of.
He makes them in lots of sizes .430-.580, or more.
Rebel Dave 14th Miss in N-SSA

[BrassMagnet]

Try this:

http://www.meachamrifles.com/Lubrisizer.html

There is more info on page two of this thread:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?232953-58-Caliber-1861-Springfield-Rifled-Musket/page2

[bedbugbilly]

Thank you all for the information. Obviously I was having a "brain fart" when I was searching as I missed them on both S & S and Lodgewood.

I have one of the push through sizers that Dixie sells for $18.00. I picked it up years ago at a gun show but never really used it as I was able to shoot "as cast" from my Ideal mold in the barrel I had. I was hoping that someone made one that would utilize a standard loading press and Lodgewood has them. I load cartridges on a Lee 4 hole classic turret but use an old RCBS Jr3 for de-priming and sizing cast boolits. The one Lodgewood sells will be just the berries to use on that press.

Thank you all again for steering me in the right direction - greatly appreciated! I knew if I asked on here someone could tell me what is out there! Thanks!

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Be aware.... one just does not "pick up a sizer" and find success. You must first know exactly what your land diameter is and what your as cast ball diameter will be. A general recommendation is to size the ball 1 1/2 thousands below land diameter. John at Northeast used to carry excellent push through loading press sizers in a nice range of diameters, but proof of the pudding was in the actual trial of the fit at purchase.
You just cannot buy a sizer in a box marked .576 as they vary a bit as do the barrel and mould dimensions. Make the test, buy the sizer that fits your idea of acceptable fit. Be aware that if you put a new custom barrel on your musket or start shooting a new rifle, a few hundred rounds will likely open it up a thousandth or so due to loading, shooting, and cleaning wear before things stablilize and you might need to get a second sizer for the best accuracy at that point.


BvT

[bedbugbilly]

Thank you Baron - I am aware of those things. I'm used to slugging barrels to determine size and have had experience with a number of rifled muskets over the years from originals to repros and the "quirks" of the bore size. Appreciate the information.

[Good Cheer]

And don't forget Tennessee Bullet Moulds. They make an excellent sizer threaded to mount in a standard reloading press. Probably get any diameter you say you want for minies.

[bedbugbilly]

UPDATE: Well, I finally got some time this afternoon to get some casting done. I cast up some sample Minie Balls - Ideal/Lyman Mold 575 213 (505 gr) and Ideal/Lyman HB SWC 575 494 (315 gr).

The 505 gr Minie dropped right at .576 from the mold. I've had this mold for around 50 years but haven't cast any since I stopped shooting NSSA probably close to 20 years ago. I forgot how much fun this mold was! My 1855 repro miss out at .577 so I'm going to give it a try "as cast" and see how it works out. All I'm going to be doing is "plinking" at paper and novelty targets and if need be, I can wet patch between patch. If the fouling gets too much to get the .576 down the barrel, I do have one of the "bang through" .575 sizers that I can size some with and see how those work.

The HB SWC 315 gr mold is one I picked up recently. I used to shoot this boolit close to 50 years ago and it was a good shooting boolit - out of the rifle I was using at that time. I was surprised when I put a mic on my cast boolits today and they measured out at .5735. .5735 in a .577 barrel seems on the "loose" side at a clearance of .0035 but I'll give them a try and see how they fly. The skirt on these is heavier than on the minie ball and I'm not sure if I'll get sufficient expansion of the skirt. Perhaps after a few shots and the fouling building up some they will work O.K? I was hoping they would drop a little larger - always easier to size down than it is to make bigger! :-)

I don't remember what I used to use with these HB SWC so thought I'd start out at 45 gr of FFG and go from there. Anyone have any advice on this particular boolit?

Thanks!

[Baron von Trollwhack]

I also used that HBSWC long ago, but quickly gave it up because of inaccuracy.....and it fit my barrel much tighter than yours. The N-SSA competition has spawned a number of minie' designs, nearly all of which failed. Remember the "stake buster" as one of them ? Seems the designer forgot a hole through 2 X 4 is a hole no matter how burly the bullet. That thick skirted bullet in the Lyman book was another. Gollee ! Shooting a 500 grain bullet with a 60 grain charge will penetrate nearly through a buffalo heart lung area. I ended up for years using the RCBS 58-500-M minie at 530 grains for skirmishing, casting out a little larger than Hoyt 58 barrels by several thousandths so they sized down perfectly to fit my rifle, with a 40 grain, fffg charge.

I found that two beeswax & beef tallow lubes worked nicely for me. One mixed with more tallow to chapstick consistency for down to 45 degrees, the other mixed to the same consistency with more beeswax for up to 95 degrees for summer use. Printer John's sizers, Hoyt barrels, Lyman powder measure to throw consistent charges....shooting was good.

BvT

[bedbugbilly]

Baron - the "stake cutting" brought back some memories for sure! I remember guys scrambling to find rifled .69 calibers just for that event. I had a friend who loved that event and I swear the pieces of lead he threw at the stakes were more akin to a"bucket". LOL

I was at on skirmish where they put out 4 X 4s for the event. Before starting the event, they announced that they had a "special feature" to make things "equal". I don't remember who the group was - an Ohio group if I remember correctly - they put up a 4 X 4 for them AND a rail road tie. Everybody broke up laughing . . . but not for long. Those guys finished first making quick work of both the 4 X 4 and the rail road tie!

I didn't get a chance to shoot this weekend but I have a feeling that the SWC isn't going to be too productive. Too much clearance combined with the thick skirt doesn't make for a good combination. If it was a tighter fit, I'd have a new base pin made for the mold that would thin the skirt up but it probably won't be worth the effort.

[Rebel Dave]

The Lyman wadcutter #575494 works real well in muskets, with 40-50 grns of 3FFF powder. It will shoot good in rifles with shallow 3 lands and grooves, and deeper 5-7 lands and grooves. You have to use PURE SOFT LEAD, no wheel weights, or alloys, they will not expand properly. (for any Minnie style bullet) You want to size it .001-.002 under bore size for max results. This info is based on a 33inch musket bbl. You might need 45-55 grns 2FF, or 3FF in a 40 inch bbl.

I shoot the wadcutter 575494 in my 33inch bbl Fayetteville Rifle with 45grns 3FFF, and Harmon/Large bbl, and it shoots a lot better than I can. Large bbls are deep 7 lands and grooves. They are known for accuracy.






Rebel Dave 14th Miss in N-SSA

[bedbugbilly]

Rebel Dave - thanks! I figured I would start out at around 45 gr for the SWC and see what the results would be. I believe that is what I used to use many years ago but it's been a long time.

All I use for my muzzleloaders is soft lead. I'm hoping I get some decent results out of the SWC. If it is "iffy", I may have a new base pin turned up for the mold and try it with a thinner skirt. The lighter load (45 grains) should blow the skirt if it's thinner. My rifle has shallow 3 groove rifling.

When I first started shooting NSSA many years ago, a friend of mine had an original Mississippi Rifle that had a nice deeper rifled (7 groove if I remember correctly) barrel on it. That rifle was a tack driver with the SWC load. He passed away many years ago and later on, I helped his widow sell off his guns. She was hard up financially so I worked my fanny off getting top dollar for them for her over a period of time. I oftn wished I had purchased the Mississippi from her. I didn't have the spare $$$ at the time - she offered to give it to me for helping her but I just didn't feel comfortable with that as I knew she needed the $$ to pay her bills.