Proper neck tension for a 30-30?

[fatelvis]

I'm loading up some 311041 boolits for my Marlin 336, and I plan on feeding them normally, by using the tube magazine and lever. How much neck tension minimum would you use? Thanks-

[Larry Gibson]

A .003 neck tension is plenty. In the tube magazine it is a proper crimp that is of importance to prevent the bullet from pushing back into the case.

Larry Gibson

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I just (last week) finished reloading 200 rds. of .30-30 Win. using mostly Rem. cases, 170 gr. CLFP boolits and intend to shoot them in a Win. '94. After debating with myself whether to taper or roll crimp I sent off for a Lee Factory Crimp die instead. I have roll crimped in the past with satisfactory results, but have been having good results with the LFC dies in other calibers, so I thought I'd give it a try. These are loaded to deer hunting level, and I don't believe the boolits would stay put in the necks with just neck tension.

[Outpost75]

+1 on the Lee Factory crimp die in loading for any rifle wth tubular magazine!

[Idz]

Just curious. What load are you using? alloy? gas check? lubed or powder coated bullet? and are you doing anything special because of the microgroove barrel?

thanks

[fatelvis]

WW cases, 311041 cast from 9pts WW: 1 pt Lino ,sized to .311", GC, SpeedGreen lube. Marlin is from 1954 so it has Ballard rifling. Rifling in bore starts immediately, but has a .311" throat. I FL sized the brass so the lever closes with the slightest of resistance and use the RCBS .311" expander to open up the neck (the expander actually measures .3105".) Loading like this, and without a crimp, I can't push a boolit into the neck against the workbench, unless I really lean on it.
109095109096109097

[frnkeore]

You'll find better accuracy with .001 neck tension and a good crimp.

Frank

[popper]

Measure uncrimped dummy load OAL, whack the base on the bench & remeasure. If it moves much, not enough tension. Twisting the boolit in the case finds any loose ones for my loaded rounds. What do your sized boolits measure after a month? I used to jam the lands but quit after needing to use a rod to unload the 336. Also a problem on follow up shots if one gets stuck. Your choice.

[Foto Joe]

I've been sending these same boolits (311041) down range for about the last two months out of a Henry H009B and have been having a blast with them. I originally had a little neck tension issue but Larry Gibson suggested that I crank down on the neck sizer a tad and that did the trick. I do however use a Lyman "M" die with a .308 plug in it and size the boolits to .310".

As of yesterday I started working up my accuracy loads a 100 yards with iron sights and I'm getting a little closer to happy with the load. I don't know about the OP but I think these 30-30's are addicting.

[Larry Gibson]

Foto Joe

Hit 107 here yesterday, supposed to hit 115 - 120 this week! Wish you were here. What a good time!

Larry Gibson

[swheeler]

Foto Joe

Hit 107 here yesterday, supposed to hit 115 - 120 this week! Wish you were here. What a good time!

Larry Gibson

Be sure and wear a jacket, don't want you catching a cold:)

[georgerkahn]

As a .30-30 Win caster/loader/shooter, one (of many) things I learned is to brush/clean the inside of your case necks! I noticeably increased the uniformity of my loads, and even shrunk target group size by this simple -- cleaning the necks -- added step. Obviously, there is a direct correlation between the amount of grit on case inside and the force required to release the boolit after ignition. I also use a Lee Factory Crimp die... but cleaning case mouths surely seems to give uniformity to neck tension.
BEST!
geo

[fatelvis]

As a .30-30 Win caster/loader/shooter, one (of many) things I learned is to brush/clean the inside of your case necks! I noticeably increased the uniformity of my loads, and even shrunk target group size by this simple -- cleaning the necks -- added step. Obviously, there is a direct correlation between the amount of grit on case inside and the force required to release the boolit after ignition. I also use a Lee Factory Crimp die... but cleaning case mouths surely seems to give uniformity to neck tension.
BEST!
geo
Do you just pass a brush through the neck before sizing? I have to confess, I never clean the necks.

[dondiego]

If you tumble your brass you are probably already cleaning the inside the case neck.

[georgerkahn]

I use a Thumler's Tumbler with crushed walnut shells treated with rouge, and never gave the inside necks a thought. I suspect using an ultrasonic cleaning may clean the inside, but it's incredible how much crud is left after walnut tumbling! Brownell's and Sinclair sell brushes just for cleaning the insides, and that's what I use. I chuck a brush in a small (Unimat) drill chuck, and simply move the case in and out a few times while the brush is spinning. A tap or two drops lots of removed crud out, and -- as I wrote -- things really seem to improve. I'm by no means any "reloading guru" -- just something I noted which helps me make (imho) better reloads. The ones Sinclair purveys are made by RCBS, and a site is http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/case-cleaning/case-cleaning-products/rcbs-case-neck-brush-prod32618.aspx
BEST! geo

[Larry Gibson]

georgerkahn

That tumbling should effectively clean the inside of the case necks. If you get "chatter/screeching" when the neck is pulled over the expander or it is very hard to pull over the expander then additional cleaning of the inside of the neck is needed or a lube used.

If I am just NS with a bushing die or a Lee Loader and have just cleaned the outside of the case I do "brush" the inside of the neck. I like to use a one caliber larger bronze brush (new and clean) in a Lyman or RCBS tool handle or a short cleaning rod. I push the brush straight in the sized neck and then twist in the direct the bristles are wound as the brush is puled out. One in/out usually does it. Twisting the brush with the bristles keeps them from buckling and the brush lasts a long time.

Larry Gibson

[Foto Joe]

I'll have to give brushing the inside of the necks a try. I managed a 4" group at 100 yards yesterday with iron sights. I was working on increasing the loads from Lyman's starting load of 18.0 gr of 4198 which they state was the most accurate. I shot 18.0, 19.0 & 20.0 yesterday with the 20.0 showing a pronounced improvement over the lighter loads. The next set will be 21.0 & 22.0 to see if things remain the same or circle the drain. Once I get a consistent load for the gun I'll chronograph and probably mount my 2.5 power Weaver scope on it to play a little. Trying to actually see an 8" target at 100 yards with iron sights is quite a feat for me.

And Larry you'll be disappointed to know that you couldn't pay me to be in AZ right now. Teri and I road the bike up to Pahaska Teepee for lunch today (2 miles from the east gate of Yellowstone). Today was one of the three days this month that it hasn't rained, yet. So far we're only up to 74° this afternoon, eat her heart out!!

[Larry Gibson]

But I get even with everyone in the winter!

Larry Gibson

[MT Chambers]

With a proper sized expander and a good crimp, I don't see any need for another crimp die.

[Pb2au]

Mr. Gibson, I would be happy to send you some of our delightful Ohio humidity if you like. It is currently around 90 degrees here, with a squishy 90% humidity.....
I visited Phoenix last June/July, and was able to see the countryside. It is indeed beautiful. But holy moly is it hot there. Too much for this Irish kid.

[Larry Gibson]

No thanks, done my share of "humidity" around the world courtesy Uncle Sam. One of the reasons I love it here and don't really mind the heat. Once you get climatized to the dry heat it isn't that bad. 'Tis you that have my sympathies.

Larry Gibson

[georgerkahn]

Larry Gibson: Residing about 17 miles south of the Canada border, we have quite a few "snow-birds" in the area. (I use my $$$ for boolits etc. rather than travel, other than to family -- all in NYS) Re your post re WINTER, what comes to my mind is the photo a friend shared with me taken while en route to Florida: A huge road sign / bill-board indicating, "How many go 'up north' for the winter?" Perhaps ever so true, eh?

Re maximizing accuracy vis load, I have long been a practice of employing Creighton Audette's Ladder Test. In a relatively short time, maybe an afternoon, I can find a rifle's "sweet spot" re loading -- and then take it from there. Sadly (for me ;) ) pretty much every rifle I own shoots better than I do, and the Ladder Test does shrink groups. Mr. Audette was a regular contributor to Precision Shooting magazine (I subscribed for decades), and Ladder Test(ing) was a subject often discussed. A short article on it appears at http://precisionrifleblog.com/2012/07/13/creighton-audette-ladder-testing/ , fyi.

BEST!
geo