New to casting... Should I be adding Tin?

[Labanaktis]

I'm new to casting. I bought a Ballisti Cast Mark X. I am casting 124 gn. 9mm with Ballisticast moulds. The results are ok, but the lead seems like it is not filling out in the moulds... Especially in the back of the bullet where the chamfer is at.

Will adding Tin help? I have read that adding Tin will make the lead more "Wet".
Seems like it will help but I wanted some other opinions about it. I am casting at 705 degree

Thanks, Matt

[waco]

The short answer is yes, tin will help with fill out. A dirty or cold mold will also produce boolits that are not filled out.

Welcome to the board!!

[Labanaktis]

Thanks so much! I'll have to start looking for some solder at radio shack then. Here's a pic with the new moulds from Ballisticast. They are loner moulds until my no lube groove moulds come in. I am getting .3575 to .358 consistently. Should be perfect to coat with Hi-Tec coating and size.

Matt

[dilly]

Probably would be helpful to know the alloy you are starting with too.

[Outpost75]

If you are starting out with wheelweights or range scrap of uncertain composition, adding as little as 1% tin by weight can make a big difference.
Keep your pot temperature below 750 degs. F. so that you don't oxidize the tin out of the melt. If you can run about 710 +/- 5 degrees you are in the right ballpark. It should be unnecessary to add more than about 2% tin to the mix.

[dh2]

I would add 2% tin and let the mold lay on top of the pot to get warm .

[Labanaktis]

Thanks. Yes it's mainly range pick and wheel weights...I am trying to add some pics but the manager is not loading them from my ipad

thx, Matt

[Labanaktis]

I have been casting for awhile to warm the moulds up then just melting down the scraps.

[Labanaktis]

Here are the pics

[Labanaktis]

Hey.. It worked

[Beagle333]

"New to casting, and you start out with a Mark X. Impressive! That beats the heck outta a 2-holer Lee mold over a Coleman stove, any day!

And it looks like you're all set to make boolits now. Tin is a wonderful thing. :D Happy Shooting!

[Labanaktis]

It started with a machine gun....then you gotta feed it. I'm not a fan of reloading but it's the only way I can afford to shoot. $65/1000 bullets if you don't count the case and reuse the lead.

not to bad that way. There are 4 of us to...that helps.

m

[Larry Gibson]

Hey.. It worked

Not only does adding the tin give better fill out but you end up with a better alloy also.

Larry Gibson

[Labanaktis]

Thanks Larry! Will some solder from Radio Shack work? Thats the only place around me that might work... i hear a little goes a long ways.

Thanks, Matt

[threewheels]

try a hard ware store in the pluming section the solder you get at radio shack is made for soldering wire and is acid core.

[Labanaktis]

thanks for the tip. I will do that.

[Beagle333]

Pewter is my favorite way of adding tin. It's cheaper than either pure tin or solder.

[Labanaktis]

I will look into pewter to.

thx, M

[bangerjim]

Check any of the hardware stores or big box stores in the plumbing section. You want lead-free solder which is very expensive but is almost all Sn. Solder from RS will have rosin core NOT acid core! Neither is what you want.

Unless you can find scrap solid wire solder at a junk yard, that is a very expensive way to get your Sn. Have no idea where you are located because you did not put on your location....very helpful to know when asking for help on here!!!!! Check used stores and yard sales for pewter. Around me, there is none but other locations seem to be lucky.

Also pre-heat your mold on an electric hotplate. Much better and more convenient than waiting for your casting pot top to heat it. I bring my molds up to casting temp on the hot plate and start dropping perfect boolits the first pour! And use that same plate to preheat your casting ingots! Speeds up things when you add more to your pot. I have my plate set at about 620F.

banger

[Larry Gibson]

Thanks Larry! Will some solder from Radio Shack work? Thats the only place around me that might work... i hear a little goes a long ways.

Thanks, Matt

As mentioned pewter or using plumbers solder is better and far less expensive. You can also order tin from a couple venders here. The tin, while initially seeming expensive does go a long ways. At 2% for 10 lbs of COWWs you only need 3.2 oz. One lb of tin will do 50 lbs of COWW alloy.

Larry Gibson

[Labanaktis]

Please excuse me for not knowing what COWW Alloy is? Any ideas?

thanks, Matt

[Beagle333]

Clip On Wheel Weights. :lovebooli

[Labanaktis]

The ahhhh moment! Thx

[Beagle333]

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm
(http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm)
Here's some useful reading too. I found this greatly helpful when I started out. :coffeecom

Well..... I find it greatly helpful now too. ;-)

Happy Casting!

[Don Purcell]

If you are just starting out casting with a Mark X and loading with a Dillon 1050 I quote Bill Murry in "Stripes" - "I wanna party with you cowboy"

[Labanaktis]

We crank them out! The dillon has been running perfect! I came from using a fully loaded hornady lnl... For a couple hundred dollers more, the dillon is light years ahead of the hornady. Way more consistent. The caster will really keep costs down. Plus I don't have to buy bullets and wait and wait and wait anymore.

Just gotta find powder, primers have been plentiful.

When shooting machine guns you don't feel guilty holding the trigger down.

Matt

[littlejack]

Labanaktis:
Welcome to the CastBoolits.
Another source of tin is to go to your local radiator repair shop. Ask for the solder drippings in their tanks. They are supposed
to dispose of the drippings in a legal manner. My local radiator guy gives it to me.
I have the alloy (drippings) checked at my local scrap dealer. They can tell you what percentage of what material is in it.
Regards
Jack

[quilbilly]

Happy casting and welcome to our group. If you have trouble finding tin solder, head on over to Walmart and check the fishing tackle section for lead-free splitshot. You will usually find some tin splitshot there. I have found three size seven splitshot is enough for a little more than a pound of lead. Tin is a little expensive that way but it is certainly easy to meter for the right alloy.

[Tom_in_AZ]

Try heating up the mold a little more. Whenever I have problems with fill out, a little more heat in the mold helps.

[Labanaktis]

Thanks again guys for all the tips! I will be buying some tin or pewter from someone here and report back. I think that will fix my issue.

Also I cast for 30 min before I get keepers. The moulds should be warm by then. I don't get any swirling in the pour.

Thx, Matt

[jayhkr]

So I was curious about this too. Did a quick search on Craigslist and found this: http://kansascity.craigslist.org/hsh/4518632866.html Would this be what we're looking for, or similar to what we need?

[GLL]

Labanaktis:

Matt:

Welcome !

Drop me a PM with your mailing address before you buy solder and I will send you a 5 pound ingot of 60/40 solder (60% tin) to experiment with.
With that machine you are going to be needing a lot ! :) :)
Nice setup !

Jerry

[RobS]

Labanaktis:

Matt:

Welcome !

Drop me a PM with your mailing address before you buy solder and I will send you a 5 pound ingot of 60/40 solder (60% tin) to experiment with.
With that machine you are going to be needing a lot ! :) :)
Nice setup !

Jerry

Well that's a hell of a deal!!!

[Labanaktis]

Labanaktis:

Matt:

Welcome !

Drop me a PM with your mailing address before you buy solder and I will send you a 5 pound ingot of 60/40 solder (60% tin) to experiment with.
With that machine you are going to be needing a lot ! :) :)
Nice setup !

Jerry

Extremely greatful full for the offer! I did however buy some pewter today. I'll give it a try and see where I get. I plan on casting a lot. We probably have close to 450 lbs of smelted lead right now in muffin casts. I'm probably going to need a lot of tin adding it per batch to taste.

again, thanks so much for the offer. Shipping from California to Michigan is to much to ask.

Matt

[bannor]

Antimony always seemed to help more with the "mold filling" problem, than tin does. Tin, according to lyman, mostly just helps antimony bond with lead, without crystalizing-out.? Mostly, tho, rounded off bases/corners, etc, normally means that the mold, alloy or both are not hot enough, are contaminated, or a vent/slit on the face of the mold is somehow obscured. The latter is very rare, btw. It's pretty easy to get a bit of corrosion, dirt or oil into a mold cavity. Especially if you lube them to prevent rust. clean them well before use, with a toothbrush and dish soap and water, and do NOT touch a brush to a warm mold! :-) it will melt and then you WILL have trouble casting decent bullets.

[a.squibload]

So I was curious about this too. Did a quick search on Craigslist and found this: http://kansascity.craigslist.org/hsh/4518632866.html Would this be what we're looking for, or similar to what we need?

Yes, if they are actually pewter.
No, if you want more tin for your money, that knob is pretty small for $2 !
Try garage sales, thrift stores, even craigslist sometimes.
Or the Swappin & Sellin forum here on CB.

[jayhkr]

Yes, if they are actually pewter.
No, if you want more tin for your money, that knob is pretty small for $2 !
Try garage sales, thrift stores, even craigslist sometimes.
Or the Swappin & Sellin forum here on CB.
Yeah, but I can't tell what's pewter, and whats not. I'll check out the swap forums!

[Labanaktis]

Here's a cople more pics


mmmmmmmm boolits!

[Labanaktis]

Gotta get some Hi-Tek!

[Labanaktis]

Reloading room starting to look good!

[MBTcustom]

Reloading room starting to look good!

Yep, just starting out. That is just waaaaaaaaayyyyyy too clean and organized.
Just looking at all that empty floor gives me the willys! LOL!

[littlejack]

That is a nice hobby area. Needs more debris for sure.
Question: What's with the foam pad sections on the wall?
Jack

[Labanaktis]

I used to play a lot of guitar in a few different bands...it helped keep the echo and overtones down. Just as well to leave it there. I also pulled the carpet to keep the static down.

Matt

[prs]

I apologize, but I skipped the second page of this long thread. "Ideally" you want to balance the lead and antimony weight percentages in your alloy. This gives an excellent metallurgical alloy. It is not an ideal world and for plinking and machine gunning you can get away with less tin. As those wonderful commercial molds broke in, they will require less tin to cast well too. 1% may do, whatever minimal amount lets you cast well. If the antimony gets too rich in comparison, you may get a grey deposit in the barrel similar to leading, but not nearly so stubborn or offensive; a "wash" of antimony. No biggie. For serious rifle accuracy and hunting and all of that; well there is much to learn as you go along.

Visit the RotoMetals site and see the retail tin prices and pewter prices. Note the various grades of pewter and the different adjuncts in the blends for pewter. Scrap pewter can be any of those or something else too. Retail alloy and foundry metal is expensive in general, but it gives you an idea of value and you need to consider the amount of hard hot dirty work the foundry has done for you -- sorting and rendering dirty old wheel weights is not my idea of fun, although I find the result to be satisfying to some degree.

prs

[Labanaktis]

True to the amount of work to process the lead! I just got the pewter in today. I will give it a try tonight or tomorrow. I will post some results then.

Matt

[Labanaktis]

The pewter did help fill out the moulds better. I am still getting a swirl to the majority of the casts.... This is after casting for an hour. I did find the 2 bottom pour spouts were not quite centered on the plates... I will let the pot cool and try to align them later...that's probably half of the problem. The other I believe is the pour flow. I think I need to slow it down a little.

Also I am getting some drip outta the pour orifice. I will have to figure out how to adjust that.

Anyways here are the results.

Thanks, Matt

[Labanaktis]

I should also add the front row was cast at 690. The middle was at 705. The back was at 725.
I am not seeing much difference.

Matt

[Labanaktis]

Also, all 3 temps are dropping at .357"/.358" consistently. Measured with mitutoyo calipers.

Matt

[bangerjim]

Also, all 3 temps are dropping at .357"/.358" consistently. Measured with mitutoyo calipers.

Matt

If you are getting swirl marks, try pressure casting. That gives me perfect boolits even with the most stubborn molds I have.

bangerjim

[littlejack]

They look purty good. There are a few places I see wrinkles. You may need to get a hot plate and heat your mold up a little
hotter. This will also allow you to get good boolits from the start of your casting session.
Regards
Jack

[Labanaktis]

Thx fellas! They are looking better then before. I just gotta get the pot moved around a bit. Ill put them on the scale tonight and see where we're at.

[Labanaktis]

All 3 batches are 123.4/123.5 gn seems pretty consistent for weight

just the update.

thanks, Matt

[Echo]

try a hard ware store in the pluming section the solder you get at radio shack is made for soldering wire and is acid core.
I hope not - acid core is a NoNo for electronic use. The solder they sell is undoubtedly rosin core.
But for the OP, eBay has solder on sale all the time. I will pay $10/lb for Sn delivered (I think that's reasonable), so 5 lbs of 50/50 solder gets a bid of $25 including shipping. And 2.5 lbs of Sn will improve 100-200 lbs of range scrap.

[JohnH]

Look, you simply cannot post pictures of a man cave with a clean floor on here, it is verboten! SWMBO will pass by and see that and start giving me the business about how other men do pick up after themselves. I had to scroll past that so fast it made me dizzy. In future you must post warnings in the subject line so that I'm sure to not view such blasphemy as that. I know where everything is in my mess and completely enjoy wandering around the room and house complaining about the things SWMBO has misplaced. Please remember that you are dealing with a bunch of curmudgeons who are set in our ways and have no desire for change. :kidding:

[Labanaktis]

Thanks! And I will add warnings next time.... Here's my next project.... Going to draw it up in Solidworks and change a few things... Then build my own.

Warning!!! This might hurt someone!!! With an infectious eye disease!!!

[Labanaktis]

I was thinking about making a new one that incorporates a 100 lb Master Pot.

i should look into making my own pot... Maybe a winter project for here in Michigan


Matt

[Labanaktis]

Should be FUN!

[bnelson06]

I'd load and shoot them swirly ones and not worry about it, with a machine gun you won't be able to tell the difference;)

[Labanaktis]

I hear ya! I just want to get the process down and not have to fight it down the road. Buy bulk and spray away

M