Beretta 92 9mm leading

[cheese1566]

Need help!

I haven't ever had an issue with leading until now!

I have been developing a load in 9mm for my Beretta 92. I use air cooled sorted clip-on wheel weights for all of my casting using Magma Hard Lube in my Star sizer. I am dropping from a Lee 120gr TC mold boolits that are unsized at .3575".

I first tried .356" sized boolits and I got leading at my intial 4.7 grains of WIN 231 (yes, these were way too hot and I deserved a leaded bore.) The leading was all down the barrel and I had strings hanging from the lands.

I honed out my Star die and they size now to .3565" and dropped the load to 4.1 grains of WIN 231. The chrony is showing around 1029 fps, but my leading has toned down to the throat area and some creeping down the grooves.

(I haven't slugged the bore based on a bad experience I once had doing so...)

I was thinking of dropping the load and increasing the size to .357? Am I on the right path?

(I have shout thousands thru this gun using 4.5 -4.7 grains of WIN 231 using 115 gr FMJ and Hp's with never any issues.)

[ultramag]

Without slugging the bore I would say so. You may possibly even find that .358 works better yet. I shoot that same bullet sized to .358 in all my 9mm's.

[Old Caster]

I am thinking that a softer lube like 50/50 would be better for you.

[cheese1566]

I may try some 358's. I already have a .358 Star die but my boolits drop .3575" It may not size them anymore, but just lube them. Be worth a shot!
I was thinking I am undersized with the leading in the throat area where the lands start.

I do have a Lyman 450 (but no proper sizer die, only .355 and .358") filled with Lar's Red Carnauba that i use in my .357 mag/ 223/ and .308 loads. Good stuff but I like Hard Lube for pistol for storage...I may have to get another Star!

[ultramag]

I may try some 358's. I already have a .358 Star die but my boolits drop .3575" It may not size them anymore, but just lube them. Be worth a shot!

I was thinking I am undersized with the leading in the throat area where the lands start.

I'd give it a shot. Mine drop just right at .358 as well and sizing them in a .358 just cleans them up a little here and there and lubes them. Been working great so far in several different 9's.

[tazman]

I have 2 9mm pistols with Beretta 92 barrels in them. One slugs at .3573 the other at .3575. I found I had to size my boolits at .357 minimum to stop leading. When I sized my boolits to .356 I got the leading you describe in both barrels. I now size to .358. I tumble lube my boolits with White Label 45-45-10 and get no leading whatsoever.
I just this evening finished a 400 round run through one of the pistols using all cast boolits sized and lubed as described. The barrel is still free of lead with only powder residue.
I also have the Lee 120 tc mold and it drops right at the size yours does. For the most part, I load that boolit unsized and tumble lubed and it shoots great.
I am currently casting from indoor range scrap.

[sigep1764]

Did you do the plunk test to set oal? I have to seat that bullet at 1.033 to avoid hitting the rifling. I also lube with Lyman NRA Alox lube in my 4500. Its soft and I store my boolits sized/lubed, so some of it comes off in storage. I just relube as needed as I go.

[bruce drake]

I first started casting for a Taurus 92AF with the same mold. I found that this pistol made in Brazil on Berretta tooling preferred .358 sized bullets to stay clear of lead fouling.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/145006/lee-2-cavity-bullet-mold-358-125-rf-38-special-357-magnum-38-colt-new-police-38-s-and-w-358-diameter-125-grain-flat-nose?cm_vc=ProductFinding
I bought this mold. It drops at .360 in my WW-based mixed alloy at around 128gr. With lube it gets close to 130gr. It works in my FEG High-Power as well as my RIA 1911 in 9mm as well as my Taurus 65 in 357Magnum.

I size them at .358 for the 9mm pistols and size them at .359 for my revolver. Its a well-used mold on my shelf.

Bruce

[cheese1566]

I used to have a 358-125-RF in a 6-banger. I should have kept it!:|

[Silverboolit]

Have you pulled a loaded boolit to see if it is sizing down when loaded?

[mdi]

I'd say guessing will get you the same results you're getting now; poor. Without facts, measuring, it's all a WAG. You can keep on trying different diameters, but without slugging the barrel, you'll have to get lucky and hit on one that works...

I have two 9mm pistols and neither have "9mm" barrels; one is .356" and the other is .3575"...

[94Doug]

I always start at .357 in 9mm.

Doug

[Old Caster]

Good stuff but I like Hard Lube for pistol for storage...I may have to get another Star!

I would much prefer to use hard lube for everything because it is easier to work with, doesn't get sticky, is easier to store and all kinds of things but sometimes it doesn't work as well and you have to sacrifice all these things for performance.

[Fishman]

My Beretta bore is .358 and I run .359 in all my 9mm. .357 resulted in leading, .358 was better, and .359 worked the best although not perfect. 9mm cast is frustrating in my experience. I use a custom .358 case expander to open the case just to the base of the particular 9mm design I am using, and bell the case at another station with a standard lee die.

[gwpercle]

I size boolits for my 9mm's .357. Taurus PT92 and Walther P-38.
Stopped using hard lube when I found it still in the lube groove of recovered boolits. It's not doing it's job if it stays in the groove. Only use lubes that do not require heat. No leading.
Worth trying....gary

[Hickok]

My M92 mikes .3565" groove diameter. I size to .358" and no leading with Lee 358-125 RF.

[Idz]

My 92FS slugged at 0.358+. The Lee 358-125-RF powder coated and sized to 0.358 worked with minor leading. Anything smaller leaded like crazy. I stuck an aluminum gas check on with the 0.358 sizer and leading disappeared. I set the Lee seating/taper crimp die for crimp so the round just barely fits in the 92FS chamber. My 92FS has worst of both worlds with a maximum groove diameter and minimum chamber diameter so its real picky.

[Larry Gibson]

I am thinking that a softer lube like 50/50 would be better for you.

I also suggest the change of lube.

I also suggest you add 2% tin to your COWWs for a better alloy.

I've shot many Lee 120 TCs through numerous M9s (had 84 of them in my arms vault and an indoor range right next to it). I shot a lot of the above alloyed 356-120-TC bullets sized .356 and .357 lubed with Javelina (a soft NRA formula 50/50 lube) over 4 gr Bullseye w/o any leading what so ever.

Many of the harder lubes are great for commercial bullet casters and faster velocities but fall short of doing their job with loads like yours.

Larry Gibson

[harley45]

I would try a softer lubne and size at .358 that is what works in my 92 with the lee 125gr

[dakotashooter2]

Another vote for the softer lube. I also quit using bevel base bullets in my 9mm.

[cheese1566]

I slugged the barrel and found the groove diameter to be around .03575". My bullets are dropping from the mold at around that. I ran 50 through my Star using my .358 die as it is the largest that i have in the vicinity. It is Magma hard lube for this test run.

If these don't pan out, I will break out my Lyman 450 with the .357 and .358 dies and try my Lar's Red Carnauba. (That's the only two lubes I have on hand at the moment. Not too anxious to swap lubes in my equipment for load testing at the moment.)
​I certainly do appreciate the help from everyone!

[kryogen]

All my 9 need 358 or shoot bad and lead

[cheese1566]

I tried a Lee 358-125-RF sied to .358", lubed with magma hard lube, using 3.9 and 4.2 grains of WW231. MY beretta still shows leading on thé first area of thé barrel.
But i found the velocities to be a bit higher and sporadic than expected and most primers are showing slight cratering. I felt high pressures than what i wanted were occurring and disposed of the unfired test rounds.

My next try is back to thé Lee 356-120-TC sited to .357-.358 using lars red carnauba. It is the softest lube i havé. Sdcitizen gave me some powdercoated bullets to try as well.

[tazman]

I have better luck with softer lubes. I used to use a soft 50-50 in my lubesizer. Now I just tumble lube with White Label X-Lox.
My Beretta 92 barrel also measures right at .358. I size .358 and don't have issues with leading. When I sized .357 accuracy was good but I had problems with leading after about 30 rounds or so.
My chamber will feed sizes larger than .358 up to .360. It hasn't helped anything and the accuracy starts to fall off.
.358 seems to be the answer for me.

[Petrol & Powder]

My chief complainant about loading cast bullets in 9mm is the need to load for just one gun. That being said, the one I generally load for is a Berretta 92. I have found the Lee120 TC to be a good cast bullet for 9mm and it works in the Berretta but I have to size at least to .357 and .358 works better. I agree the hard lube may be a problem, I started with Lyman Orange Magic because that was what I had on hand. That was a disaster and I switched to BAC; much better! NRA 50/50 would probably be even better yet.
Keep an eye on your OAL. 9mm pressures get high in a hurry when you seat the bullet too deep. A previous poster suggested pulling a bullet to make sure your weren't sizing the bullets back down when seating/crimping; that would be a good thing to check as well. A bullet being sized back down when seated would be no different than one that was too small to start with.
As for your powder, I don't think that's an issue contributing to leading but if your Lee 125 is running a bit heavy, like say 130gr, then 4.2 grains of WW231 is a bit hot. I've certainly used 231 in 9mm but it's not my favorite. WSF would be my first choice and Bullseye would be my fall back choice.

[tazman]

I understand what you are saying about needing to load for just one gun. Groove dimensions are reported to be all over the place depending on the manufacturer.
I avoided that by having my second 9mm barrel from the same manufacturer.

[Petrol & Powder]

Cast bullets and 9mm can be a frustrating combination. It's just not as forgiving as the 38 Special. Once I got all the details ironed out, I was able to make the Berretta work just fine but I'll confess to using J-word bullets when I have more than one 9mm pistol on the range.

[cheese1566]

I checked accidentally resizing while loading/criming. Not an issue and i actually reduced the crimp after checking.
i have loaded thousands of jacketed bullets for 9mm over the years and am careful about length. i loaded the 358-158's longer so they cleared the lands yet functioned in the mag.
i have a ton of ww231 and hp38 so they are my firat choice in developing a load. I will say they were quite accurate...

this is the first gun i have had trouble with cast.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

In my Baretta 92 SB I use either Lyman 358242 or RCBS 115 TNC using straight WW metal; both drop at .358 so I shoot them unsized. Lube is old NRA 50/50 formula. I don't have any prob with leading and both bullets will hold 8-9 ring at 25 yards. LLS

[Petrol & Powder]

If you have 231/HP-38 you're WAY ahead of the game these days ! I don't know how many pounds of 231 I've burned but it's a lot. Wish I could find some now!
The vast majority of my 9mm loading/shooting has been with jacketed bullets. I know this is a cast bullet forum and I can make 9mm cast bullets work but I often have to ask myself, why ?
I like knowing how to make cast bullets work in a 9mm pistol but I'm not sure it would be worth it for more than one gun. Before I got all of the details worked out with CB and the Berretta, I wasn't sure it was worth it in even one gun.
You'll get there.