MyPin PID Auto Tune?

[jayhkr]

So as many of you know and have helped me, I recently got and setup my new PID!! Works pretty good most of the time and I'm still learning. Here's the question I have. I have the TD4-SNR+SSR model and I'm pretty sure it has auto tune, however when I press the "<</M" button for 3 seconds the "AT/M" light comes on. Now I'm not 100% sure how long this process is supposed to take but I think something is off. Here's what I do:

My temp is set for 700*, when the lead gets to about 650* I press the <</M button and the AT/M light comes on. The temperature continues to rise, and rise, and rise to well over 800* and the light never goes off. But when I press the <</M key and turn off the AT/M it regulates itself around the set temperature.

Now some of you are saying: "If it's holding around your temperature why are you trying to auto tune?" Well because every now and then the temperature will shoot up to 740-760* So I was told when it does that to auto tune. Now I've read the few manuals out there and they really don't describe what I should be looking for when I do this process. Can anyone here help out?

Also, how sensitive are these PID's? When I first had everything setup and thinking things were good, I had it plugged in and working as normal but moved the PID box while leaving the TC in the pot doing it's thing. Next thing I notice my temperature starts fluctuating ALL over the place. It was holding steady at one temperature then all of a sudden shot up 200+* then fell then climbed then fell by 50-60*. Since then I haven't moved the PID while it's operating and I made sure all the connections were tightly screwed in, but what could had caused that?

Thanks guys for the help!

[w0fms]

TA4's have Auto Tune. TD4's AFAIK, do not.

This is intentional on (Chinese) factory lines so the line people don't play with the settings. ;)

Someone else who has the same pot setup and a TA4 could probably send you his tune and you'll be fine. For Example if it's a Lee pot, many people could probably give you their P,I,D values. (I can't because I use a hotplate and a saucepan...) Or you could read up on PID theory and calculate the PID values yourself and through a little experimentation. This exercise is left to the reader.

What is going on is your auto tune button on the unit, on that model, is the "Manual Mode" .. I.E. you are turning on the SSR manually.

Here is a quick example I found on the net from the Beer guys.. http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/manual-mode-mypin-ta-pid-336198/

Fred

[Beagle333]

TA4's have Auto Tune. TD4's AFAIK, do not.
This is intentional on (Chinese) factory lines so the line people don't play with the settings.
What is going on is your auto tune button on the unit, on that model, is the "Manual Mode" .. I.E. you are turning on the SSR manually.

I don't know much about building them, but this is exactly what I have found in all of my research on which ones to buy, as well. :neutral:

[jayhkr]

Ok, sounds good. I just wanted to be sure I wasn't screwing anything up. I'll do some research on P.I.D. settings and see what I can come up with. No biggie really, like I said for the most part it keeps it pretty constant, just a few times did I notice it go way off, but that's quickly remedied by adding more lead. NOW I see the reason for those alarms! LOL

[Handloader109]

On my setup the p=0.42 i=92.00 d=23.00 remainder are as factory.

[jayhkr]

Thanks Handloader, this will give me a place to start. My issue is I have 2 pots, so I'll have to see what it does between both pots. I guess if it gets to crazy I can always put it back to factory and not worry to much about it. Either way, sure going to help keeping the temp. closer to that temperature than without it. Just wish I knew more about this stuff....looking at all these instructions makes my head hurt.

On a side note though, I was reading that this particular model DOES auto tune, but then I'll read that it DOESN'T. I may just turn it on and leave it for a few hours to see what it does. Making sure to keep an eye on the temperature......don't know how extreme lead can get before issues arise but I don't want to find out the hard way.

[dikman]

The obvious answer to your issue is to build a second one!:grin: (That's what I did, bought the cheapest PID I could find - REX-C100 - + a probe and an SSR, cost me about $20 all up.:bigsmyl2:

Anyhow, back to your tuning problem. Everything I've read indicates that yours has an auto-tune function but it appears to be turned off. I've tried to find a manual for yours, but without success. I assume yours came with some sort of instruction sheet, so any chance of scanning it and posting it? It should only be a matter of finding the right parameter and changing it to enable auto-tune.

[RobS]

For A Mypin TA-4, when the auto tune light comes on the controller will over shoot the pot temp you set and then eventually it will come back down. This may happen two or three times until the auto tune light goes off which may take up to 20 min or so.

You will also have to make sure the PID functions are all turned on (all three of them) other wise the controller will not work like it should. Simply go to the P, I, & D settings and turn them on by giving them a number (any number) and then when the display comes back then hit the auto tune.


As I've done more reading though, as been mentioned, the TD-4 may not have an auto tune function however there is also information out there that says it can auto tune. You'll have to play around and see I guess.

[RobS]

My Lee 20# bottom pour pot has the following settings:
P - 2.99
I - 126.00
D - 31.50

[jayhkr]

The obvious answer to your issue is to build a second one!:grin: (That's what I did, bought the cheapest PID I could find - REX-C100 - + a probe and an SSR, cost me about $20 all up.:bigsmyl2:

Anyhow, back to your tuning problem. Everything I've read indicates that yours has an auto-tune function but it appears to be turned off. I've tried to find a manual for yours, but without success. I assume yours came with some sort of instruction sheet, so any chance of scanning it and posting it? It should only be a matter of finding the right parameter and changing it to enable auto-tune.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l129/jayhkr/PID%20Controller/20140611_201705_zpse4865b40.jpg (http://s95.photobucket.com/user/jayhkr/media/PID%20Controller/20140611_201705_zpse4865b40.jpg.html)

Not sure if this helps, but this is what I get to try to decipher.

[jayhkr]

My Lee 20# bottom pour pot has the following settings:
P - 2.99
I - 126.00
D - 31.50

I'll chuck these settings in and press the button, see what results I get. Thanks everyone!

[RobS]

You have to turn the D setting on or give it a number if the controller doesn't have one already. If this isn't done the controller will not auto tune..............or at least on a TA4

[RobS]

I also changed the Hysteria setting from 1.0 to 0.5 that is the Hys function. The setting right after the Controller's direction to oUd - HEAt or COOL.

You may want to change the AL 1 (Alarm set) to something like 3.0 and then the next setting (the Alarm Mode) to a 0

AL 2 (Alarm set) also to 3.0 and then it's (Alarm Mode) to 1.

[jayhkr]

Thanks guys! As soon as I'm done building this fence I'll head downstairs and tinker with it! You guys are very helpful and I can't thank you enough!

[Cmm_3940]

I also have a MyPin PID, I forget which model, in a Lee 20# pot. Has anyone else noticed that the temperature maintenance consistency (not sure I worded that right..) decreases as you cast and the volume in the pot changes from the initial volume when the autotune was set?

[RobS]

Mine stays right at 1 maybe two degrees difference all the way down to just under 1/4" from the bottom. I have my thermocouple probe dead center and about 1/8" off the bottom. I do have a lid or cover though.

http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt206/RobS01/PIDLeePot_zps0c870ab4.jpg (http://s612.photobucket.com/user/RobS01/media/PIDLeePot_zps0c870ab4.jpg.html)

[dikman]

Jay, that instruction sheet seems par for the course (there always seems to be an assumption that the user understands PIDs!).
Second column, about 1/3 down it talks about auto-tuning. It can indeed do both auto or manual.
While in "display" mode (normal state) pressing <</M will change it from manual to auto - AT/M on = Manual, AT/M off = Auto.
Hold Set and <</M until the AT/M LED starts flashing, it's now in auto-tune.

Auto-tuning can take up to 20 minutes, with some fairly big swings in temperature as it sorts itself out.

[jayhkr]

So I did everything ya'll said, AL1 at 3.0, next function at 0, AL2 at 3.0, next function at 1, next function (PuF?) At -1.0, Inp at a backwards 'y', P at 1.0, I at 240.0, D at 1.0, Hys at 0.5, CeL at 001, ErL at 0.0, ErH at 100.0, bSL at pid. Now its flashing on the out1 light, Out2/AL2 is on, no light on AL1, and AT/M is on. I've had it on "Auto Tune" for nearly 50 minutes and initially the temperature went up, then it went down and has been going down ever since. Currently at 516* and is set for 705*......wait 515* now. Maybe it doesn't AT after all which is a bummer as the Amazon description, instructions manual and mypin website all say it does. 512* now....../sigh

[Cmm_3940]

Ok, this question seems stupid, but do you have the thermostat on the pot turned all the way up?

[jayhkr]

Yes I do.

[dikman]

Is the AT/M light flashing?
The alarm settings are really unnecessary, in my opinion, I set mine to off.
The Output LED should come on whenever the PID is switching on the SSR.
Are there any more settings on the other side of your sheet?

[jayhkr]

Ok, I feel pretty dumb now.......upon reading every word on the sheet, front and back, it states to hold down both the "set" button AND the "<</m" button to enter in auto tune mode. Damn guys I'm sorry to have caused all these issues due to my lack of reading. Thank you all though for helping!

[RobS]

Well...........you figured it and to be straight with you when I read my directions the first 5 or so times I still didn't have it all figured out. After playing with the controller and rereading and then reading several forums I figured out how mine worked. So is your controller and pot auto tuned together now?

[Cmm_3940]

Ok, I feel pretty dumb now.......upon reading every word on the sheet, front and back, it states to hold down both the "set" button AND the "<</m" button to enter in auto tune mode. Damn guys I'm sorry to have caused all these issues due to my lack of reading. Thank you all though for helping!

hey, don't sweat it, Engrish is a second language for most of us. :) congrats on figuring it out.

[dikman]

Hold Set and <</M until the AT/M LED starts flashing, it's now in auto-tune.

Auto-tuning can take up to 20 minutes, with some fairly big swings in temperature as it sorts itself out.

I'm used to people not paying any attention to what I say [smilie=s:.

Glad you've got it sorted.:drinks:

[jayhkr]

I'm used to people not paying any attention to what I say [smilie=s:.

Glad you've got it sorted.:drinks:

Sorry bro, when you said "set" I wasn't thinking of the button, but rather the temperature needed to be "set". :not listening::2 drunk buddies::drinks:

[dikman]

That's ok, these PIDs have a fairly steep learning curve when you're first starting out. I downloaded the "manuals" for several of them when I started to try and figure out what it was all about :killingpc.

[deces]

Ok, I feel pretty dumb now.......upon reading every word on the sheet, front and back, it states to hold down both the "set" button AND the "<</m" button to enter in auto tune mode. Damn guys I'm sorry to have caused all these issues due to my lack of reading. Thank you all though for helping!

Thank you for posting this. I have been trying to auto tune it for a while now, mine came with no instructions.

[Kerry705]

Thank you for posting this. I have been trying to auto tune it for a while now, mine came with no instructions.

Thought I'd throw this out there after I hosed my autotune on the PID I just built. Apon start up I was just pushing buttons and turning the power on/off and somehow turned autotune off. Took and email to the Mypin guys to figure out how to reenable it. To renable it, go into settings and set P to 3, hit Set to accept the value, then hold down Set for 3 seconds to exit the settings menu. Imediately after that hold down the autotune button for 3 seconds. It has to be done in that exact order or it wont work. Now if I just knew how I turned it off so I dont do that again.

[elmacgyver0]

I've never have seen the need for a PID for melting lead, but I'm not the perfectionist most of you guys are.

[jsizemore]

Why are you reading and commenting on a PID thread?