Better Boolit for a finicky 9MM?

[kenn]

I've got the .358-105 for my 9 sized down to .357. In my two walthers, I have to seat really deep (.955 to .959) to get it to pass the plunk test. At that depth, even with an agressive crimp, the brass lip is catching on about 1 out 10 feeds when cycling dummies. The round doesn't "make the bend".

"Ball" ammo with a round nose that begins to taper as soon as it exits the case mouth seems to be fine so I'm thinking a .356-125-R or .356-125-2R might likely be able to plunk at a longer COAL. Does anyone have any experience comparing these two boolits?

Further does anyone have this one and might be willing to do a swap for a sample of these to test?

[tazman]

I've got the .358-105 for my 9 sized down to .357. In my two walthers, I have to seat really deep (.955 to .959) to get it to pass the plunk test. At that depth, even with an agressive crimp, the brass lip is catching on about 1 out 10 feeds when cycling dummies. The round doesn't "make the bend".

"Ball" ammo with a round nose that begins to taper as soon as it exits the case mouth seems to be fine so I'm thinking a .356-125-R or .356-125-2R might likely be able to plunk at a longer COAL. Does anyone have any experience comparing these two boolits?

Further does anyone have this one and might be willing to do a swap for a sample of these to test?

I have both of those and they both work fine in my 9mm sized to .357. If you would like samples of each of them to try, pm me your address and I can send you a few.
I also had the same trouble with the 105 except I didn't need to seat it that short.

[Handloader109]

I Use the 2r it goes in at 1.070 for me. I use the 124gr Lee Tc also at about 1.040, and Love the little 95gr at 1.025 if I go much longer with any of these it is not a good time had.

[MtGun44]

Are you taper crimping as a separate operation? Have you tried increasing
the taper crimp to make it pass the chamber test? This is a TWO PART test,
LOA and degree of TC BOTH make a difference.

Bill

[petroid]

Lots of guns have trouble feeding SWC profiles. I would think that just about any RN or TC would feed without issue

[fattires]

I have been using the Lee 356-120 TC in my Walther PPQ with good results. I have to seat to 1.040 to get it to plunk.

[Shiloh]

The LEE 125 gr. RF for 38/.357 works very well. Work up loads as it sits deeper than boolits from the 9mm molds.

Shiloh

[kenn]

Thanks, guys. Tazman has generously offered to send me both TC and LRN samples. I'll figure which works better for me and give er a rip.

[sigep1764]

Tazman did the same for me with the 358-105swc. I can tell you, he casts a nice boolit. I had to seat mine at 1.011 in my 9mms. I thought my kahr and cz had short chambers, but geez. Another member on here a few weeks ago rented a reamer for his 45. If you do a search, he listed the name of the company he rented it from.

[kenn]

Tazman did the same for me with the 358-105swc. I can tell you, he casts a nice boolit. I had to seat mine at 1.011 in my 9mms. I thought my kahr and cz had short chambers, but geez. Another member on here a few weeks ago rented a reamer for his 45. If you do a search, he listed the name of the company he rented it from.

I've thought about a reamer but I'm going to try to get a boolit to fit, first. If that doesn't happen then I'll take the barrel to a gunsmith. I do believe the 2R is probably going to be my best bet but the TC might work as well. Either way, I'm finding a boolit I can cast, PC, and shoot reliably in my Walther.

[noylj]

I shoot the Lee 105gn L-SWC as-cast (~0.358") at a COL of 1.010-1.100" with no problems.
Take the barrel out of the gun. Drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel and rotate it back-and-forth. Remove and inspect the round:
1) scratches on bullet--COL is too long
2) scratches on case mouth--insufficient crimp
3) scratches on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit
4) scratches on case just above extractor--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.

[DeanWinchester]

I've loaded several different boolits but I LOVE the 356402. I'm having Tom at Accurate make me a copy to replace my old Ideal single cavity. It shoots VERY well.

[Larry Gibson]

I have been using the Lee 356-120 TC in my Walther PPQ with good results. I have to seat to 1.040 to get it to plunk.

+ another for that bullet in the 9mm. Has fed 100% in numerous 9mm's I've used it in over the years including a couple subguns.

Larry Gibson

[kenn]

Noylj - I appreciate the help but I don't know if the magic marker is needed at this point after making so many dummy rounds. I'll give it try, though. The throat on the PPQ is really, really shallow. At .961-.962, the bullet will get stuck in the gun if I push it in with any force at all. It leaves a mark where the rifling begins (I can see it) on the leading edge of the driving band of the boolit. If I seat it to .957 or so, there's no question. It plunks and will rotate in the barrel. I think I've got the sizing down and the crimp right. I finally got good slugs through the barrel and it's slugging at .356 (repeated the test twice and got same). I now know what the rifling marks look like from the slugs and I can see the little pattern starting on the edge when I'm out past .965 or so. As I've been advised by numerous people over PMs, a lot of guns just don't like the SWC design. Perhaps this is one of them. Since Tazman has generously offered to send some samples, I'll wait on those and see what kind of OAL I can achieve with those as well. He's offered to send the 120-TC and the 125-2R.

I'm just punching holes in paper and wanted the clean wadcutter punch, but I'll take the 2R or TC if that's what it takes to get enough OAL to get the boolit to make the turn cleanly and feed reliably.

That said, I'm still going to try to get these to feed reliably at the range before I give up on the mold. I have some 3.0, 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, and 3.4 loaded up and .955-.957 with Bullseye powder. About 1/3 are powder coat and 2/3 are 45/45/10.

As a side note, I have some 115 JHP that load and shoot like butter at 1.124-5. At 1.127+, I begin to get scratches on the bullet when I plunk test it as it engages the rifling.

[Cherokee]

The Lee 356-120TC works best for me over several 9mm platforms @ 1.055" OAL. The 2R also works, just not as accurate for me and harder to seat straight in the case. The TC cuts a nice hole for me, the RN does not.

[williamwaco]

The Lee 356-120TC works best for me over several 9mm platforms @ 1.055" OAL. The 2R also works, just not as accurate for me and harder to seat straight in the case. The TC cuts a nice hole for me, the RN does not.

I like that TC bullet too.

[kenn]

Thanks again all. Tazman sent me a bunch of boolits from various sizes. Executive summary: My Walther PPQ is a very shallow throat. It also has no taper that I can tell and the lead boolit engages the grooves very early. After experimenting with several boolits, I've found the NOE .358-135FN sized to .3575 to plunk easily and feeds like butter. Going to order that mold... Here's the detail:

My process was to size the case first. Expand the case, and set the boolit very long and continue pushing it lower until it would plunk by turning my seating die about 1/4 turn until closing in and then about 1/8 from there in. I only went until I got it seated below the barrel hood and then crimped using a Lee FCD. I was trying to determine the maximum OAL first and foremost. For the dummy rounds following, I set it just a tiny bit deeper to allow a margin of error and then made 5 dummies to cycle through my 9MM. I measured each one carefully and plunk tested all of them before cycling.

Lee 95gr - I have to seat it really low in the case, much like the lee 105. It doesn't seem to cycle cleanly. In 5 rounds, at least 1 will hang every time.

Lee 358 125 RF - This one isn't too bad, and might work if I seat it lower, but it does have to be seated low enough to get past the shank of the boolit on onto the start of the ogive. It's probably workable, but I've got to have it "just right" and there's no margin for error to get it to plunk. It's starting to be a bit low to get a clean plunk every time.

Lee 120TC - This one will plunk if I seat it down to about 1.035 to 1.04 OAL. That puts it right were the 30 degree or so angle goes from shank to cone. It cycles cleanly but the brass being right at the angle bend even with a fairly tight crimp, is a bit "edgy" there. I can see a tiny little dent on the mouth of the casing where it is hitting during feed and leaving a small mark. That's similar to what's happening with the 105 Lee but on the 105, it's sometimes so bad, I have to toss the brass out as the dent is significant. I think this one would probably work if I want to use it but I don't know if I want something that's ALMOST there. It seems the bearing surface location is right at the mouth of the brass unfortunately.

Lee 356 125 2R. This is an interesting boolit. I can get it to cycle cleanly but about every fourth boolit doesn't seem to want to plunk. I ran them through my lee sizer (all rounds, in fact, just to be certain I eliminated a variable on my end). I've taken out several of the boolits and using my micrometer, it seems they are inconsistent from one boolit to the next in terms of how the Ogive is shaped. Some of them have .3575 measurements farther up the boolit than others and those won't seat properly as the lead hits. I have to set them quite a bit lower to get a plunk. I chalk this up to Lee being a good mold, but by no means an NOE or other other higher end mold. I could probably use this as long as I have a barrel handy and plunk every round, but that's tedious. The bearing surface is clearly the boolit as I can see the marks but unless I can be certain a .356-125-2R is highly consistent from boolit to boolit, it's just going to aggravate me.

NOE 135 fn. Bottom line is this one gives me a quite a bit of margin for error. Seating it right to the edge of the top band or just a tiny bit of lead showing (maybe .002), light FCD crimp and it plunks clean and loud. I can even rotate the round in the barrel. It's still plenty long and I can see from the dummies that the lead boolit itself is being used as the bearing surface rather than brass and nothing is catching.

[tazman]

That NOE mold is my favorite boolit for my 9mm. I have NEVER had a failure to feed with that boolit. It is also the most accurate in my pistol.
As far as the mold quality, well, It's an NOE mold. They don't get any better.