Polygonal Barrels

[allie]

Any HK owners (maybe Glocks too) cast bullets for their auto pistols? 40 S&Ws are what I am shooting here. The reason I ask, they are Polygonal bores, lead bullets are not recommended in them because they do not grip the bullet as tight and this results in leading them. Which can lead to a dangerous situation down the road if not cleaned properly.

My opinion is if I correctly size the bullet to the bore, choose a good lube, (I use Carnauba Red) and correct BHN hardness it is possible it will work without leading. I casted up some bullets at 14-16 BHN range and was going to try them this weekend.

If it does not work and I want to shoot lead I will need to buy a standard rifled barrel such as a Jarvis for $200.

Any thoughts or experience with this?

Thank you,

Allie

[kirb]

Some people have had good luck shooting lead in the factory barrels. I have read a couple of books about Glocks that said no way with lead and means I am a natural unlucky guy, I bought a stormlake barrel around $90.00 bucks, drop in fit and as accurate or more so than the factory barrel.


Kirb

[leftiye]

Probly depends whether you watch the bore for leading. Some here have and do shoot cast in the polygonals, some with good results. Do a search on this subject.

[randyrat]

I'm not sure how many thousand lead 40 cal i shot out of a G20 before i found out it was bad JU JU....Then i shot a lot more....You watch for leading until your comfee with that round then check now and then like any auto pistol.

[NSP64]

back in '86 I was the proud owner of a Deasert Eagle in .357. It had a poly rifled barrel. I fed it lead without any barrel leading problems. The problems came from the gas system leading up. The DE taps gas off of the throat area and tended to clog up quick.:Fire:after I figured they had to be fed J bullets, I sold it.

[Johnch]

I feed my Glock 22 cast all the time
As posted above , watch for leading

Tonight I shot 200+ rnds of cast thru it and no leading or other problems
But these are mid range loads and the bullet is sized for the barrel

John

[Dark Helmet]

If you load warm and/or reload your cases a lot of times you'll have more trouble from the unsupported case head and chamber tolerance than leading.[smilie=1:

[allie]

Great information guys, thank you for the input. Went to Storm Lake site and they do not offer a barrel for HK. I will be shooting mild loads through them and watching for leading as well as accuracy. See what happens this weekend.

Allie

[Mallard57]

I could be wrong but, isn't the 40 S&W cartridge is the one that started the no lead bullets in a polygonal barrel? The pictures I can remember of blown up pistols were in this caliber. I've never had any trouble in 9mm and 45. I believe one of the possible issues of kabooms that was raised, was the bullet getting set back in the case causing the pressure to spike. That all being said with a little prudence the issue doesn't worry me too much.
Jeff

[Leftoverdj]

Yeah, the culprit seems to be the .40 S&W coupled with reloaders inexperienced with lead. The .40 S&W is high pressure, the sidewalls are thin, and many of the guns have a large unsupported area. Combine that with undersized bulk cast bullets and reloaders who do not realize that lead bullets have their own pressure limits, you get leading and kabooms.

[trickyasafox]

I run lead in a stock g23. I bought some factory cast before I had a mold for the 40 and am still using them. They do lead a bit, but I keep an eye on it and clean every couple hundred rounds.

I think the KaBooms were more a result of bullet set back than leading. . . .I do use a bit heavier crimp then I normally would on my 40sw reloads. I have absolutely no data to back this up, just a hunch- so apply the appropriate BS setting :)

[MtGun44]

I have a friend that blew up a Glock .40 with lead boolits. He replaced the
barrel with a Barstow, and has shot a lot of cast after that without drama.
Apparently what ever the problem is, is related to the specifics of the barrel
that Glock is using, and not happening with the (apparently different) Barstow.

I have seen a copy of a letter sent by our Federal security force at work that
was asking Glock to respond as to why a number of Glock 40s had blown up
in training - with factory ammo. Never saw anything about Glock's response
but my friend called them about blowing up his and basically got the middle
finger over the phone.

Bill

[Tumtatty]

I"m a noob. What does leading look like in its early stages. I have a G19 and would love to shoot boolits through it. I bought everything i need then heard about this rifling problem.

[MtGun44]

I don't know what is blowing up the Glocks, don't own one, don't
like the trigger pull, grip angle or grip shape - however, as far as I
know only the .40s are affected by the "no lead" issue. I'm not sure
that you see lead buildup before the kaboom, either.

In the post above, I am just passing on what I know -

Glock experts - is the correct?

Bill

[mastercast.com]

It is widely known in the industry that Glock pistols are notorious for firing remarkably out of battery. I have blown the extractors out of three .40 caliber Glock pistols with factory ammo....all of those events had plain evidence that the cartridge was not fully chambered when it fired.

Glock is very well aware of the problem, does not care, and is not about to redesign that pistol to take care of the problem.

Does that sound like what happened with the pistols you were talking about?

Mike

[KYCaster]

I agree with Mastercast. Glocks will fire "out of battery". I don't think leading in the barrel is as much of a problem as lead and other crud in the chamber.

The worst case I've heard of, a guy blew up a new Glock with less than one magazine of lead reloads. He was using a combo seat/taper crimp die and every cartridge had a ring of loose lead at the case mouth shaved off the boolit in the seat/crimp die. The lead is deposited in the chamber on firing and its a common cause of feeding failures.

In most guns its an inconvenience, but in the Glocks combined with a poorly supported case the result is catastrophic failure. A friend who works for Glock refuses to comment on the situation. He just repeats the company mantra....shooting reloads voids the warranty...

I have many customers shooting my lead boolits in their polygon barreled Glocks and H-Ks with no problems at all, so it can work...caveat emptor.

Jerry

[MtGun44]

Firing out of battery would explain it. Sounds like another good reason to
continue to avoid "the best pistol in the world" - which it sure as heck
isn't for my hands, my trigger finger, and my wrist angle. Besides, the only
time I ever shot a .40 Glock it hit me in the forehead with the brass every
shot. That's a lot of fun, too. :???:

Bill

[Redleg99]

Awile ago there was quite a discussion on shooting cast in Glocks.
Here it is, for those who are interested:

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=11562

[mooman76]

Firing out of battery would explain it. Sounds like another good reason to
continue to avoid "the best pistol in the world" - which it sure as heck
isn't for my hands, my trigger finger, and my wrist angle. Besides, the only
time I ever shot a .40 Glock it hit me in the forehead with the brass every
shot. That's a lot of fun, too. :???:

Bill

Put your hat on upside down and you have a brass catcher!

[MtGun44]

When you have lemons, make lemonade. :-D

Think of the advantage.

Bill

[mastercast.com]

mooman76:

Your comment about "Put your hat on upside down and you will have a brass catcher" really tickled me. Every time I think about that and "replay the imiginary video" in my mind, I start laughing all over again!

Mike

[DeaconKC]

I have had a Glock 23 blow in my hands when shooting cast bullets. A friend had reloaded them and he is a careful loader. It was when the problem was just starting and we had the worst combination possible, Accurate #5 and cast bullets. It split the breech block on both sides and blew the mag out of the gun. Thankfully I wasn't hurt, but I admit I nearly freckled my rompers. Please use EXTREME caution and I would invest an a barrel with cut rifling. Shoot safely!

[mastercast.com]

DeaconKC,

"Freckled my rompers?" I am still laughing. WoooHooo!

[superior]

I've shot 500 cast 180 grainers out of my glock23 with out a problem. 2.3 grains of bullseye.
Never crimp with a straight wall case as they headspace on the case mouth! I get excellent accuracy and the cases land about 10 feet to the right and about 5 feet back. No signs of leading yet and i've never used a brush to clean, just a solvent soaked patch once in a while.
I get about 800fps velocity. I hit pop cans at 25 yards everytime.

[Gunslinger]

I have polygonal barrels in two of my guns, a 9mm and a .38 special. I think that I by now have shot more cast than jackeded in them. Never seen any sign of leading. I do clean them every time I come home from the range, not cause they need to be, simply cause I like it.

I've used 2 different alloys. The first one was WW & lino 3-1, and the last one, well... dunno really, since we used mostly range lead and lino. They are however so hard that they can't be scratched with a finger nail. Still no leading!