what diameter will it throw 429421

[duke76]

I ordered a lyman 429421 mold from midway and was curious what diameter bullet it will throw, I hope at least 431, just wandering if anyone had any ideas or educated guesses, Thanks

[mdi]

My 429421 will drop bullets from .4295" to .4315" depending on alloy, alloy temp and mold temp. (and how well I'm measuring them!)...

[Shaky]

Mine dropped between .427 and .431 depending on where I measured. Now use the NOE version exclusively.

[Larry Gibson]

If you are using #2 alloy or COWWs +2% tin they should drop at .429+, more likely around .430 - .431. A lot depends on the alloy and the casting technique you use. Also a lot depends on the accuracy of the micrometer or calipers used to measure with. I have checked with certified pin gauges numerous of the less expensive micrometers and have found them off +/- .001 - .003".

Larry Gibson

[duke76]

Shaky, I sure hope you are not serious with .004 out of round, If that is the case it would have to go back for sure

[longbow]

What Larry said.

I bought one about 30 years ago and it drops 0.429" to 0.430" using wheelweights or range scrap. I have not tried it with #2 alloy and I doubt it would cast large enough for my Marlin anyway. Nice mould and it casts a nice boolit for a gun with about 0.428" to maybe 0.430" groove diameter depending on alloy. Since my Marlin runs 0.4315" too small for my use. I now have an Mihec clone of the H&G #503 that cast 0. 434" and a Mihec clone of the 429640 that casts 0.434" and both work very well for me.

Mine would likely suit a typical handgun groove diameter which run tighter than Marlins. #2 alloy should also cast a bit larger than wheelweights.

I do like good Lyman iron moulds but I wish they would add the option of slight oversize for fat bores. You can always size down but not up.

Longbow

[duke76]

Well, I got it last night and casted up a few with 20-1 alloy and they dropped at 429, I need 431, anyone have any suggestions, send it back?, beagle it?, lap it?

[waco]

Order a mold from NOE and don't look back.

[Shuz]

duke76--It's easy to Beagle it and see what happens. If that doesn't work, trade it off and get a NOE or MP mould.

[longbow]

I would try Beagling first then see how that goes. If it works, great. If not then you could trade, sell or try lapping. Lapping out a couple of thou is not too difficult but of course if you mess it up then you are out a mould.

I have successfully lapped several moulds but would rather just buy one that casts to the size I need so NOE, Mihec and Accurate are at the top of my list. NOE and Mihec make moulds in popular designs in a variety of oversize diameters and Accurate will cut exactly what you want.

Longbow

[duke76]

I emailed Lyman and explained the situation, they said it cast undersize and to send it in with a few bullets so hopefully it gets taken care of

[duke76]

well I sent it back to Lyman and they sent me an email saying that yes it was indeed casting to small and then a couple days later a new mould shows up, I am excited and cast with it and try it out, same exact size .429, I email them again and they say they are sorry and asked if the new mould came with test casted bullets and it didnt, he apalogized and said he didnt know how that happened but to send it back again, I said if he couldnt get me at least .431 that I would just get rid of it and that I wasnt going to just keep sending it back at 7.81 cents a crack just to get the same diameter mould back, he assured me a new cutter was ordered and he would test cast some bullets and send them with the new mould and reimburse me for 2 shipping charges. Well last week I got my second replacement mould (so 3rd mould total) and guess what no test bullets with it, no shipping reimbursement, and it casts .4295 still to small, I cant hardly imagine that the new cutter would just cast.0005 larger than the old ones so I email Lyman again and the tech says again that he didnt know how this happened and needed a number code on the mould and he tells me to be patient as he is sure he will get this handled, well I am done spending money on this mould, if they dont send me a shipping label or the shipping money they arent getting it back, so just wanted to let you guys know if you see me selling a 429421 lyman mould that it casts to small lol I guess I will email them the code Tuesday and see what they come back with and will update when I know more, I wish I would have just ordered a custom mould from someone.

[Cadillo]

If you have the materials, you might try this:

I sometimes cast with an alloy of five parts clip on weights to one part monotype. Once cast, if left to age for about two weeks, they will usually grow a little in girth. My last batch increased from .429" AVG to about .4305" AVG.

I am usually reluctant to mention this, as some folks would rather hear a lie than the truth if it's a bit odd, but since another member has mentioned this same phenomenon before, I'll chance it.

[Larry Gibson]

Well, I got it last night and casted up a few with 20-1 alloy and they dropped at 429, I need 431, anyone have any suggestions, send it back?, beagle it?, lap it?

Use the correct alloy the mould was cut for (Lyman #2 alloy) and it probably would come a lot closer to what you "want".

Note the "429" at the front of the mould number? That is the nominal diameter it is made to cast with using #2 alloy. Mostly newer Lyman moulds will cast .001 - .002 over that with Lyman #2 alloy or a similar ternary alloy. You are using a binary alloy and it has a lot more shrinkage of the bullet as it solidifies in the mould. That is why you are getting .429 bullets instead of larger. The "fault" is yours, not Lyman's, as you are using an alloy the mould was not designed for.

If you want a mould to cast .431 with 20-1 alloy then a custom mould is probably the answer.

Larry Gibson.

[duke76]

Larry, I sent them bullets and they tell me that they are undersize, they are not within spec, they asked which alloy and I told the 20 to 1 and got some of my bullets. I point blank asked them if they would be able to get me .431 and they said yes they should so I would sure think if the mould was supposed to drop .429 they would have told me that and I would have moved on rather than all this messing around

[243winxb]

Add antimony or linotype



The bullet diameters and weights presented in this list
are based on the use of Taracorp’s Lawrence Magnum
bullet alloy (2% tin, 6% antimony, 1/4% arsenic,
91.75% lead).
Bullet diameters and weights will vary considerably
depending on the lead casting alloy used. This variation
can be as much as 1/2% on the diameter, and 8% on
the weight among the most commonly used casting
alloys. For example, a .358-158 grain bullet might
show a diameter variation of .002", and a 13 grain difference
in weight.
Of the most commonly used alloys, wheel weights (.5%
tin, 4% antimony, 95% lead) will produce bullets having
the smallest diameter and heaviest weight, with
such bullets running approximately .3% smaller in
diameter and 3% heavier than bullets cast with
Taracorp's metal. Linotype will produce bullets with the
largest diameter and lightest weights. This alloy will
produce bullets approximately 1/10% larger and 3%
lighter than Taracorp. Other alloys of tin and antimony,
with antimony content above 5%, will produce bullets
with diameters and weights falling between those cast
from wheel weights and linotype.
Alloys containing little or no antimony will cast considerably
smaller than wheel weights and in some cases
will produce bullets too small for adequate sizing.
Within the limitations given above, the weight and
diameter of a cast bullet can be adjusted by varying the
alloy’s antimony content.
The size and weight of bullets of a given alloy will also
vary according to casting temperature. Higher temperatures
will result in greater shrinkage as the bullet
cools, thereby producing a slightly smaller and lighter
bullet than one cast of the same alloy at a lower temperature. http://www.redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/88-bullet-moulds-charts

[243winxb]

A 20-1 alloy is very soft & expensive . http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/Firearms%20%20and%20%20Reloading/AlloyBlending1.jpg

[RickinTN]

Formula "A" in the chart is in error. It will not make Lyman #2 alloy.
Rick

[gray wolf]

I can size mine .432 from that Mold # It's a 2 hole older mold that GP100 man has lent me. The bullets drop about .4335 with COWW
I would go with NOE or accurate Lyman has got enough of your money.
Not that Lyman molds aren't good, but they could be bad also.

[Larry Gibson]

Larry, I sent them bullets and they tell me that they are undersize, they are not within spec, they asked which alloy and I told the 20 to 1 and got some of my bullets. I point blank asked them if they would be able to get me .431 and they said yes they should so I would sure think if the mould was supposed to drop .429 they would have told me that and I would have moved on rather than all this messing around

Were you talking to the technicians that make moulds and understand what you're talking about or the salesperson/customer relations folks up front? Makes a difference. I suggest if you want a .431 bullet of 20-1 alloy you go the custom mould route as mentioned. If the bullets you sent were .429 then they were not "out of spec". Also, were you using a caliper or a micrometer to measure with? I'm not trying to give you a bad time, trying to help get you what you want.....a .431 bullet.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

Formula "A" in the chart is in error. It will not make Lyman #2 alloy.
Rick

Hasn't been a good formula for many years now since they quit making quality COWWs. However, simply adding 2% tin to the COWWs of today will improve their quality considerably. That will make an alloy almost as good as #2 for 90+% of cast bullet applications.

Larry Gibson

[prs]

If you are using #2 alloy or COWWs +2% tin they should drop at .429+, more likely around .430 - .431. A lot depends on the alloy and the casting technique you use. Also a lot depends on the accuracy of the micrometer or calipers used to measure with. I have checked with certified pin gauges numerous of the less expensive micrometers and have found them off +/- .001 - .003".
Larry Gibson

Larry, good "old" ww alloy plus 2% SN would be about half or less the SB and SN of Lyman #2, right. The Lyman 2 would cast a little larger all else being equal.

prs


Well, I got it last night and casted up a few with 20-1 alloy and they dropped at 429, I need 431, anyone have any suggestions, send it back?, beagle it?, lap it?


Use the correct alloy the mould was cut for (Lyman #2 alloy) and it probably would come a lot closer to what you "want".

Note the "429" at the front of the mould number? That is the nominal diameter it is made to cast with using #2 alloy. Mostly newer Lyman moulds will cast .001 - .002 over that with Lyman #2 alloy or a similar ternary alloy. You are using a binary alloy and it has a lot more shrinkage of the bullet as it solidifies in the mould. That is why you are getting .429 bullets instead of larger. The "fault" is yours, not Lyman's, as you are using an alloy the mould was not designed for.

If you want a mould to cast .431 with 20-1 alloy then a custom mould is probably the answer.

Larry Gibson.


Larry, I sent them bullets and they tell me that they are undersize, they are not within spec, they asked which alloy and I told the 20 to 1 and got some of my bullets. I point blank asked them if they would be able to get me .431 and they said yes they should so I would sure think if the mould was supposed to drop .429 they would have told me that and I would have moved on rather than all this messing around

Larry is correct, the mold was originally designated to drop .429 with #2 alloy. Time marches on and many of us rarely use such a rich alloy due to expense of tin which is now exceeding $20.00 pound. Mix a 100#batch of real #2 and at retail you would have a century note in tin alone! It would break my heart to Beagle a new steel mold and I fear I would screw it up royally. A less expensive aluminum Lee single or 2cavity I have done without fear and without perfection ;-) Since you already have your 5% tin alloy, could you get by with adding enough Super Hard or Monotype to get #2?

prs

[GP100man]

I`d add a little tin before condemning the mold to go away , maybe 15 to 1 & see what happens.
If ya go the lappin way diamond dust just on the bands is the way to go.
If time is of essence then NOE 5 cavity all the way !

[duke76]

Were you talking to the technicians that make moulds and understand what you're talking about or the salesperson/customer relations folks up front? Makes a difference. I suggest if you want a .431 bullet of 20-1 alloy you go the custom mould route as mentioned. If the bullets you sent were .429 then they were not "out of spec". Also, were you using a caliper or a micrometer to measure with? I'm not trying to give you a bad time, trying to help get you what you want.....a .431 bullet.

Larry Gibson
Larry, I talked to the technician that casts with the moulds that get sent back, Joseph is his name I believe, I am measuring with a digital micrometer and I know it is measuring correctly as I have a set of pin gauges and it is right on the money according to what they are marked and it also reads zero when closed all the way

[williamwaco]

If you are using #2 alloy or COWWs +2% tin they should drop at .429+, more likely around .430 - .431. A lot depends on the alloy and the casting technique you use. Also a lot depends on the accuracy of the micrometer or calipers used to measure with. I have checked with certified pin gauges numerous of the less expensive micrometers and have found them off +/- .001 - .003".

Larry Gibson

Have you done this same check with calipers?

I find them to be off .0010 to .0015 with my mike.