After 5 days and...

[PatMarlin]

Diss-assembling and cleaning 4 firearms, stripping and refinishing the stock on my 20 bore muzzle loader-

I STILL CAN'T GET ALL THE COPPER OUT OF MY M1 GARAND WITH SWEETS!!..:roll:

This is wearing on my patients.. :mrgreen:

[S.R.Custom]

You're not using a bronze bore brush, are you? [smilie=1:

[dubber123]

You're not using a bronze bore brush, are you? [smilie=1:

The copper stops coming out the same time the bristles fall off the bronze brush! I only laugh, because I did it.[smilie=1:

[crowbeaner]

Now you know why I buy cheap cotton snips to clean bore fouling with. Keep scrubbing Pat; it will all come out eventually. Use nylon brushes and keep putting the Sweet's to it. I sometimes buy 3x3 shotgun patches when they are on sale at WM and cut them into 4s. I have a 1000 bag of arsenal patches; the jag just goes through them and they don't go down the barrel. I use them on my ML instead. CB.

[1Shirt]

Suggest you goe with one of the foam cleaners. Might take a couple of applications, but they sure do well for me on a copper fouled bbl. I have gotten rid of all of my brass brushes by the way!
1Shirt!:coffee::coffee:

[Blammer]

get some wipe out, hose it down let it set for afew hrs. wipe clean.

[mainiac]

sweets, and in between use jb paste,or rem-clean. Abrasives will get the carbon layer cut down,then use the amonia cleaner again. Keep swapping the two.

[garandsrus]

Pat,

Make sure you are using a muzzle guide so that your cleaning rod is not damaging the barrel!

I also like the foaming bore cleaner, especially for a Garand where you need to clean from the muzzle (unless you are using a bore snake).

John

[pa_guns]

Hi

If you are dealing with an ex-military rifle there probably is a *lot* of copper in there.

Going with only one cleaner generally is not the best thing. They each have stuff they go after and stuff they leave behind. Alternating every 10 or 15 minutes is a good idea.

Bob

[Forester]

sweets, and in between use jb paste,or rem-clean. Abrasives will get the carbon layer cut down,then use the amonia cleaner again. Keep swapping the two.

+1 on the JB paste. That stuff is my go to cleaner for anything tough to get out of a bore; lead, copper, powder or moly fouling.

[VTDW]

What Blammer said. Once you use WipeOut you will never use another copper cleaner.

Dave

[The Double D]

On patches and cleaning jags. Don't use brass jags here. This is the only place those cheep nylon jags are useful. Don't use the slotted jags, use the knurled jags and only push the patch through and let it drop out on the far end. Don't drag a nasty dirty patch back and forth in your bore.

For patches got to a fabric store. Get a cutting pad with straight edge and roller cutting wheel used for cutting quilting squares and a yard of cotton diaper flannel. Make sure the straight edge is one that is as wide as the pad. Cut patches to different sizes fit the bores of you various rifles. I mark the dimensions on the pad with a felt marker.

My friend down here does this and he collects the dirty patches and washes them in the wife's washing machine. This is the same guy who drys his cases in his wife's oven. Last year he washed some cases that included some cases from some rounds he pulled down. He missed one that contained a live primer, 85 grs. of FFG and a card wad. I was in his shop reloading when it went off. Smoke everywhere. First thing his wife said when she came back from the grocery store...whats that smell.

Okay Pat, breaks over get back to scrubbing that bore!!!

[MtGun44]

Outers Foul Out is far better than any other cleaner that I have tried
for severely metal fouled military bores.

You may need to stop and scrub the carbon crap out periodically, as I
have found many layers, with apparently electrically insulating layers
of black carbon gook between layers of nickel and copper.

Sort of like an archeological dig. . . . .

Bill

[dromia]

Wipe out is very good but pricey.

If your a bit thrifty like me then 10% household ammonia, left in the barrel for no more than 10 minutes, alternated with Ed's Red, patch and patch about gets the bore clean for cast.

BTW, don't use a bronze bristle brush. :-D

[osage]

I went thru bags of patches cleaning my milsurps. Next one will get the foam type cleaner know that I know how well it works.

DD, I like how you cut patches. I'll have to go in the fabric store with GF before Harbor Feight which is next door.

[dromia]

BTW Wipe Out do a non foaming version of their bore cleaner now which I actually prefer to their foaming product, it works very well with their Accelerator.

[PatMarlin]

Well I know I may not look like the brightest of the group but I'm not using a bronze brush.. :mrgreen:

It's a 1943 barrel and I've got 75% of the copper out, but dayamn this one's a buggar.

I've cut my own T-shirt patches since I was a kid. Nylon jag. I've got an Outers Foulout electric cleaner but could someone tell me why I can't get the bore sealed to hold the cleaning solution?

Where does the barrel send gas to the action on this thing? I've tried every bore plug and o-ring seal rig and so far no luck. I use the outers for just this ocasion, but can't get it to work on this here M1 Garand.

[Bob B]

Pat the sugar in the sweet tasting cleaner will not cut the copper ,try something that tastes sour like vingar it will do a better job. Bob B

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Pat- If you have an old architect firm close to you, you can get a bottle of ammonia that was used with the blueprinting machines. This stuff will cut when nothing will it is around 30 - 40 percent by volume. But be careful and use only in seriously well ventilated areas.

Everett

[garandsrus]

Pat,

The gas port is under the front hand guard. There is a hole in the barrel that allows gas to work the oprod. to get to the hole, you need to remove the big fillips screw (gas cylinder lock screw valve), and then unscrew the gas cylinder lock. Then take off the gas cylinder. Here's a step by step with pictures (http://www.civilianmarksmanship.com/striphtml/detailstripgassystem2.html)

If you are using the outers with the barrel down, then you won't be able to seal the bore unless you put the O ring past the gas port, which means you won't be cleaning several inches of barrel. What I do instead is remove the stock from the rifle and plug the chamber with a rubber test tube stopper. Then, I put a piece of electrical tape around the gas hole to seal it. The cleaning rod sticks out of the end of the barrel. I also tape a piece of paper towel around the muzzle to catch any drips/bubbles. I set the whole assembly in a bucket or something similar in case the plug lets loose...

Here's a link to a set of CMP pages that talks about taking the Garand apart (http://www.civilianmarksmanship.com/fieldstripassemble/maintfieldstrip.html).

Good luck,
John

[PatMarlin]

THanks for the links John., I had been looking for a breakdown.

Thanks for all the other tips to fellas... :drinks:

[PatMarlin]

For patches got to a fabric store. Get a cutting pad with straight edge and roller cutting wheel used for cutting quilting squares and a yard of cotton diaper flannel. Make sure the straight edge is one that is as wide as the pad. Cut patches to different sizes fit the bores of you various rifles. I mark the dimensions on the pad with a felt marker.


I got to see and use one of those roller cutters for the first time awhile back. I've got to get one of those. They are awesome.

When I was about 7, my dad handed me a pair of sizzors, ramrod, jar of hoppes and a t-shirt. I was a human bore scrubbing machine.. :mrgreen:

Can you imagine the outcry from the EPA, CPS, ACLU, FDA,... :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

[buck1]

I soak with Hoppies #9. BUT IT TAKES A WILE.

[AZ-Stew]

Garandsrus nailed the "Foul Out" technique. Not much more to be said.

As Buck1 says, Hoppe's can work if you use a bore brush full to wet the bore, let it sit for 10-20 minutes, then swab with a patch. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Time consuming, but it works. You might want to try their Bench Rest 9 Copper Solvent. No abrasives.

When you get tired of cutting your own patches, look for patches from this outfit:
http://www.southernbloomer.com/
Per their name, they're an undergarment manufacturer. They use the scraps from the garments to make gun cleaning patches. Essentially, it's 100 percent cotton T-shirt material, slightly fuzzy both sides, soft and absorbent. Check their web site. Lot's of different sizes and not expensive.

Regards,

Stew

[e15cap]

Ya know, I once spent 4 hours working over a Savage 99 before I realized I was cleanig out the pits in that barrel. Stick a Q-tip in about 1/4" down the muzzle and then shine a Mag lite in there and you can get a good look at what you are dealing with. Best Roger

[pa_guns]

Hi

On an M1 be careful of the copper scrubber getting into the gas assembly. It will eat holes in it eventually ....

Bob

[PatMarlin]

Yea that's a good idea. I've got to get it taken apart and cleaned up. I did scrub once with some hoppe's and let it soak overnight, but being it's winter and the wood stove is going strong, the smell was too much even for me.... :roll:

[eka]

Pat, I feel your pain. Back in the fall I bought another 03A3 and got a bunch of copper out of it, but would still come out with green patches. I could not seem to get the last of it out. I just resorted to coating the barrel heavily with Hoppes 9 and putting it away, and twice a week running a clean patch through it and repeating the process. I'm not usually that patient by the way. But, after a couple of weeks or so, no more green patches. These other products I'm sure will take care of it a whole lot quicker, but this will work.

Keith

[Uncle R.]

My first rifle was a .25-06 and I shot it more often than the average hunter. I cleaned it with Hoppe's #9 'cause that was all I knew about, all I could get at the local stores. After many years and a few thousand rounds it was BADLY copper fouled - you could see the copper coating in the barrel when you held it at just the right angle to the sunlight.
Determined to remove the copper, I did the #9 soak routine for an entire winter. Every day or two I'd wipe out the green and re-coat the bore. Months of this treatment didn't get the copper out. As they came on the market I tried Shooter's Choice, Hoppe's copper remover, and probably one or two others - all without success. I pretty much figured it was hopeless.
Years later I discovered Butch's Bore Shine. As a tough test I dragged out the old .25-06 and started the soak-and-wipe routine. The fouling came out in visible chunks on the patch, and within a week or so the bore was free of copper. It may not be the best - but it's pretty dang good! I've heard it's a mixture of Sweet's & Kroil - don't know for sure but it works for me.
Uncle R.

[PatMarlin]

Holy cow I can't get the gas cylinder off.

It seems like it's pressed on there with some kind of collar or something. I can't even see a parting line with a magnifying glass.

Wrapped on the bayonet lug and she is not budging. Well I got it cleaned up anyhow. If I could only get the gas hole plugged.. :roll:

[lovedogs]

I've got a few friends who are always trying to clean old military rifles that are neglected like you mention. I always tell them to wrap their mitts around a bottle of Montana Extreme Copper Killer 50 BMG Special Formula. It's a super strength copper remover that won't harm steel if used according to the instructions. It works better than anything else I've ever used. A Foul Out works well but this stuff is faster and IMHO easier. Of course, you can only use nylon brushes with it.

[PatMarlin]

Got the gas block off, so I can plug the hole and use my Foul Out today. Bought a little new bottle and it was $14.95.. :roll:

Good thing I don't need much of it.

Copper is not a problem for me as I only shoot cast cept for .22 cals, and I'm working on stopping that.

Lead is easy to clean, but who needs to clean when your barrels don't lead?..
:mrgreen:

[garandsrus]

Pat,

Glad to hear you got the gas cylinder off!

What did you buy a little bottle of, solvent for the foul out? If that's what it is, you can easily make your own. Here's a link to a site with the recipe (http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm#Copper). Do a find on " Electronic Fouling Removal" to get to the right section of the document.

John

[PatMarlin]

Yeah the foulout juice was expensive, but I was glad to buy it from the gunshop as every time I bring in a rifle with a little problem or a look, he never charges me.

That's a good site there with lots of good info. Thanks John.. :drinks:

[PatMarlin]

Wooo Hooo, finally got the Outers working with my Garand barrel. It's cleaning with a yellow light now. Dang- only took 3 weeks... :roll:

Where am I supposed to lube the action for firing? I haven't got a book yet.

[garandsrus]

Pat,

You're making progress! Check the CMP site for lube instructions (http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/care_and_cleaning_of_your_m1.htm).

There is a lot of good information about the Garand on their site.

John

[PatMarlin]

Oh lord the saga continues... :groner:

This barrel is PAIN. With the FoulOut and copper solution running it just does nothing even with the "cleaning" light on. After 2 days of no copper showing up on the rod, I finally broke out the JB paste.

Never used it before, as I had read controversial views on it's use, but I followed the directions and it produced black crap that was either lead or powder fouling from the 1940's, but it was like uncovering another layer in the gold mine.

I then took Sweets to a patch again, mainly as a copper indicator- no blue showed up. So I thought maybe I'd try the lead cleaning solution with the FoulOut machine which showed the "cleaning" light on, but it didn't produce a thing.

This is with an absolutely clean "sanded" rod, and good clean contacts.

So it looks like I'm back to the JB. There's no copper showing with sweets but the bores still fouled.

[mroliver77]

Pat the JB is an abrasive and you will get black from a perfectly clean barrel. Mebbe it is clean now? What makes you think it is not? How do you mean fouled? Whatre you seeing? This is kinda like a soap opra and I cant wait to see what you run into next!! :)
J

[PatMarlin]

Pat the JB is an abrasive and you will get black from a perfectly clean barrel. Mebbe it is clean now? What makes you think it is not? How do you mean fouled? Whatre you seeing? This is kinda like a soap opra and I cant wait to see what you run into next!! :)
J


Stand by for station identification.. :violin:[smilie=b:[smilie=l::brokenima


Didn't know that about the JB still showing black BUT why would my Outers FO still show the light on as in the cleaning process? When the barrel's clean it moves from the yellow light to green light as in go... or money... or mariwhana.. or some people's last name.. :mrgreen:

[mroliver77]

That is strange that the light is on. I was thinking that mebbe there was some copper hidden but FO would show it. Does barrel look clean? Did you get anything at al with the foul out? Are the leads on properly? (Had to ask) Mebbe try foul out in another gun?
Tune in tomorrow for another episode and find out!!
J

[PatMarlin]

Well I just got done doin' my wife's BLR, and it cleaned the copper perfectly. I sanded down the rod lightly with 400 and even touched it with some 000 wool. Then rubbed down with alcohol.

No oil in the Garand barrel. Clip and contacts clean. Thing is with the Outers, if it's not connected right the last indicator that shows is "yellow light" cleaning. Anything but. Bore looks clean and shiney but it looked that way from the start.

I'm somewhat stumped.

Film at 11:00..

:killingpc

[garandsrus]

Pat,

If you are not getting anything on the rod using the foul out, the barrel is clean and you are done... Go shoot the thing already!

The green/red/whatever light must measure the relative conductivity of the solution. It is possible that if the barrel starts clean, the machine never sees a change in the conductivity of the solution, so it never goes to whatever other color it has.

My home made unit only has one light telling me whether it is connected properly or the rod is shorted out against the barrel.

I have used JB Bore Paste and every patch comes out black as was said.

John

[PatMarlin]

I think you're right John.

[pa_guns]

Hi

I believe that the little lights are measuring the current through the system. There are a lot of things that will impact the current *other* than metal fouling. One possibility is primer residue.

If you are not plating metal onto the rod, you are not doing anything useful with the setup. Time to shoot ....

Bob

[MtGun44]

On a couple of my old milsurps I had non-conductive layers between layers
of metal fouling. I assume some sort of carbon fouling.

I had to scrub with powder solvent and a brass brush when the light went out,
and got some nasty black gunk for a while, then not much. Back to the Foul
Out to remove another layer of metal. In a 1917 US Enfield, I got a yellow
tint to the Cop-Out after one of the deeper layers - I assumed it was nickel
from the old nickeled bullets. Scrub out the black, plate out the metal, scrub out
the black. . . . . .

Layer after layer. I eventually struck steel with all of them.

Good luck.

Bill