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Idaho Sharpshooter
06-07-2014, 12:35 AM
Long story.

About a hundred and thirty-five years ago the Sun never set on the British Empire. Many of the Subalterns (Lt's) graduating from Sandhurst and Eton, etc were middle class. They did not have the cash to purchase even an A&N double rifle. A Major Fosberry proposed a solution to H&H. Take those glorious BP 12, 10, and 8 bore SxS shotguns and:

1. taper choke them .003-005" for a couple inches at the muzzles.
2. rifle them with shallow slow twist rifling. Just about the choke depth +.001" or so.

They would shoot the large shot nearly as well out to 25-30 yards. They would shoot roundball, and later acorn bullets in the 2-4" range at 50 yards, L/R, L/R.
Plenty accurate for Tigers or Lions at close range.

The question: were they to be classified as shotguns, or rifles? H&H answered by categorizing them as "Paradox Rifles", a trademarked descriptive phrase for saying "we don't really know...a paradox if you will.

Anyway, I got to shoot an original H&H Ten Bore, not gauge, Ten Bore. Four shots under 3" at 50yds.

I got a bad case of the "got's to have one".

I bought a ten gauge double SxS and shot slugs. Totally unsatisfactory solution. Never got two slugs, L/R to print within 6" of each other at 25yds.

A good gunsmith friend and I got to talking, and he suggested shortening the barrels, and putting choke tubes in them.

Problem, nobody makes them.

Solution, have my gunsmith friend make some. I bought a ten bore ML barrel, and my friend cut two stubs 4" long off the blank. Cut the barrels back to 22" and put rifle sights on the rib.

Turn the stubs down, thread the muzzles back about 3", and thread the stubs to fit. Rocky Mtn Cartridge makes the proper length cases, $10 apiece.

He experimented until 160gr of 2F regulated about 3" by 2" wide at 25yds, and a bit high. Miked the tubes, and epoxied them with the overnight stuff, ran outside to his range, and verified that regulation had not changed. Let them set up for two days.

The brass round ball mold casts a .775" diameter bullet. I just cast up a couple ball, and then loaded and shot them all yesterday. I need to make some more, so I can check the weight.

Let us just say, for the record, that recoil is brisk.

And, my gosh is it a lot of fun shooting it.

I will update shortly.

Rich

StrawHat
06-07-2014, 05:46 AM
Rich,

Ross Seyfried wrote an article on the Paradox guns in Rifle or Handloader magazine. He found a copy of the colalr button mold and it worked well for him. Also, as I recall, his boolits were a bit on the large size for the rifled bore but a sliding fit in the smooth section.

Good luck with this quest and keep us posted.

I would be happy with a 12 bore.

725
06-07-2014, 06:25 AM
pictures !!

zuke
06-07-2014, 08:35 AM
Pic's or it didn't happen!!

Mk42gunner
06-07-2014, 11:35 PM
I've thought about rifling one of the extra-full turkey chokes available for 12 or 20 gauge with a twist of about 120:1 for round balls as a substitute Paradox gun.

I went so far as to buy a choke tube for my Remington Model 870 20 gauge, but have never gotten around to trying to build a rifling bench to cut the rifling yet. Oh well, if never get around to it, I am only out $4.00 (clearance sale price).

Robert

quasi
06-08-2014, 02:26 AM
Siefried had an article in Double gun Journal about loading and shooting for his Paradox guns.

StrawHat
06-08-2014, 08:06 AM
I just found reference to the Seyfried article, Handloader, Volume 39, Number 1, February-March 2004.

Not sure if I still have a copy of it but if/when I locate it, you are welcome to a copy of the article.

JimP.
06-08-2014, 06:48 PM
I had the same itch for a paradox gun and found the H & R 1871 Ultra rifled 12gauge slug gun. I'm loading in 3 inch plastic shells 160 grs of Pyrodex and several thick fiber cards (3/8 and 1/2 inch) to fill the shell column up and seating a .730 round ball (no crimp) on top of the wads sealing the case with hot glue. Big boom, and a cloud of smoke with a hole in the target that is easy to see even at 50 yds, chronograph says 1600 fps. The round ball is over 1 oz and will explode a water filled gallon milk jug. WOW it's fun. I have two other slugs that i load and they are just as accurate as the round ball. i mounted a Tasco 40 mm red dot scope and it has held the zero from over 40 rounds so far. This is a fun gun to shoot. JimP.