405 Gr. Lee

[EMC45]

Just cast 50 of these last night for the 45-70. Wow! that is one huge bullet!! It will empty out a 10 lb Lee pot quickly. I pan lubed them with some BW/Crisco lube and am gonna load them this afternoon. Question I am shooting from a Handi and I am debating a crimp. Start load will be 12 gr Unique. What do you think? I have 10 pcs of processed 45-70 brass, so I may crimp 5 and not crimp the other 5 :-D

[Johnw...ski]

Just cast 50 of these last night for the 45-70. Wow! that is one huge bullet!! It will empty out a 10 lb Lee pot quickly. I pan lubed them with some BW/Crisco lube and am gonna load them this afternoon. Question I am shooting from a Handi and I am debating a crimp. Start load will be 12 gr Unique. What do you think? I have 10 pcs of processed 45-70 brass, so I may crimp 5 and not crimp the other 5 :-D

Been having trouble with my 45-70 as I mentioned in another thread.
Just started reloading again after about 20 years and have been crimping the 45-70 ammo in question. Shouldn't need it in a single shot, and I should have known better.
Thanks for that crimping question, next batch will not have a crimp.

Thanks,

John

[9.3X62AL]

I've used the same Lee boolit in my Ruger #1 x 45-70 for several years. My general rule is to not add a variable unless a problem occurs with the assembly "as is". The Lee boolit shoots very well for me without crimping, so I left well enough alone. Only trial and error can show which method will do the best in your rifle.

My thoughts are that 5 rounds of each method aren't enough to truly assess the difference, unless one method is egregiously worse or better than the other. The 10-shot group is a stern master--but an honest one. For a target or varmint rifle where sustained strings of fire are the name of the game, I use the 10-shot group as a make-or-break measurement of performance. Where few shots are fired in a season--deer hunting, for example--the "cold shot" from an unfired barrel and the following 2 shots are used as my barometer, with sights adjusted accordingly.

[Limey]

I use the Lee Factory Crimp Die on all my 45/70 rounds....I load smokeless for my Marlin Guide Gun which I use for hunting and I load BP for my Pedersoli Sharps repro for target work....I crimp them all with very good results to date.

With the Marlin the OAL is per book....64.77mm.......but for the Pedersoli I seat the bullet out further so the OAL is 69mm.

You need to settle on a system that works for you and your gun....some will say crimp, some will say don't crimp........you have to be confident in what works for you.....try both methods...pick the best performing one and stick with it.

You need to establish 'a line in the ground' round.......too many variables and you'll never know where you are and where you need to go to get better.

Establish a standard round for you and your gun......then when you cannot shoot that any better try varying just one thing at a time and see what it does.....if it shoots better....it then becomes your standard round.......if it shoots worse.....it's just an entry in your loading log.

Safe shooting

Limey

[1Shirt]

For what ever it is worth, I use Lee factory crimp on everything I load (jacketed and cast). I tend to be lite on the crimp however. Maybe it is just me, but I think it adds a little bit more to consistancy and accordingly accuracy. My testing proves it to me, but may not to others.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[EMC45]

Well, I put a light crimp on this bullet. A little more than just to remove the "bell". It had a slight inward profile, but nothing crazy. I also shot all 10 about 45 mins ago. They did pretty good. I was shooting off a knee at 50 yds and they were all in 4 inches. Better off the bench, but I was at my Dad's house and I don't have a bench down there. They had recoil akin to a load of 00 out of a 12 ga. Nice loud boom. 12 gr. Unique was good, but I believe I will step it up accordingly. I do know this: I will have to crank down my rear sight, They are printing kind of high, but nice and centered.

[KCSO]

Although Unique makes a good plinkiing load if I were looking for better accuracy I would look to IMR3031 or slower. I have shot some of my best groups with smokless in 45-70 with IMR 4895 and 4831. The best you get from 4831 is about 1200 fps and it is a little dirty but it shure groups good. Of course nothing beats the odor of FFG spreading through the air on a crisp winter morning.

[joejr]

i use 45 grains of imr 3031 with that boolit in my handi,pretty good kick but verry accurate,1 1/2 to 2 inches at 50 yards

[looseprojectile]

KCSO {don't want to hijack the thread, but]
I am thinking of trying a duplex load in the 40 65 with 300 grain boolit. Something like three or four grains red dot or? and the rest 4831 or 4895. Think I might start light with wads or filler and work up to a case full if needed.
I just shoot paper so 1200 fps is probably fast enough.
Have you tried duplexing?
Years ago I found that I got no leading at any speed with medium burning rate powder. Got good loads in the 50 70 with 3031.

Nearly all the loads I use in the 40 65 are from 45 70 data. My rifle is a high wall repro. The problem with this rifle is, I have not been able to produce any consistently accurate loads. I am willing to try almost anything to get this rifle to shoot.

[DonH]

The best you get from 4831 is about 1200 fps and it is a little dirty but it shure groups good. Of course nothing beats the odor of FFG spreading through the air on a crisp winter morning.

For BP cartridge loads or smokeless loads duplicating BP velocities accuracy is often best around 1200 fps give or take a little. If paper punching is what you intend, that is plenty. As for BP loads, BPCR guys I shoot with gnereally avoid crimping. In fact, a good many don't resize the case at all and thumb seat the bullet. That routine IS NOT for smokeless as it doesn't bump up the bullet the way BP does.
You will have to experiment a bit to see what yur rifle likes.

[jack19512]

Just cast 50 of these last night for the 45-70. Wow! that is one huge bullet!! It will empty out a 10 lb Lee pot quickly.








If you think those are big try some 500 gr. bullets. :mrgreen: I also use the Lee factory crimp on all of my cast and jacketed bullets. I tried the "crimp, no crimp" thing on another caliber and the crimp won out as far as accuracy was concerned. Not saying you will get the same results but I am satisfied.

[dromia]

I crimp my BP Trapdoor loads with the Lee 405gn HB. I also crimp my .577" Snider BP loads, now there's a mansized boolit .590" diameter, seems to give more consistent ignition. Now my 450/577" Martini BP rounds don't like crimping.

Who knows what your rifle will like, try them with, try them without and only change one variable at a time.

:castmine:

[jonk]

I shoot mine as cast. I don't size brass and apply a light crimp.