What makes a good barrel for cast bullets?

[MeestaSparkle]

I can't remember where, maybe it was here, but someone mentioned something about a particular barrel not being good for cast bullets. This raised the question in my mind, what factors make a barrel that is good for shooting cast bullets? I think this guy said that the rifling was too shallow or something like that.

On a related topic, what factors make a throat good for cast bullets? If it depends on the bullet shape, how so?

And, finally, is there such a thing as a barrel that is good for both cast and jacketed, or is there only compromise?

Thanks!

[Buckshot]

...............There really isn't one best barrel for cast ............in general. You could generate a best barrel for a particular cast boolit though. Otherwise a good barrel for cast is pretty much also a good barrel for jacketed bullets. You'd probably want the throat and leade a bit different between the 2 projectiles but what works for accuracy (so far as generalities go) for jacketed and cast is the same.

You want the barrel interior smooth, the rifling pitch to be consistant, and a clean crown. I'm pretty sure that a groove depth of .004" is a good trade off. Too shallow and too few and there isn't enough purchase to keep from stipping. Too deep and alloy displacement can be an issue. Lots of theories out there and some really make sense. You'd think some of these would make a large difference. However, most don't made any difference at all.

..............Buckshot

[1Shirt]

While I agree with Buckshot, often good shooting bbls are a crap shoot. I have seen bbls that would just not seem to shoot one blt. no matter what you put under it, but would shoot another blt with anything you put under it. Same is true of rough or pitted or dark bbls that are supposed to be put in the trash heap that for some reason still seem to shoot well. It is my opinion that all bbls are female, they have minds of their own and need to be worked with for the best results. At least with bbls if you don't find a shootable solution they can be sold, traded, or easily discarded. There are bbls that shoot well with jacketed and not with cast or visa versa according to what I read and hear. That said, half the fun is in the testing, occaisional frustration, and also occaisionally finding a combination load that just plain works.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[VTDW]

Being a Marlin levergun type of fella I often here that the microgoove barrels will not shoot cast boolits. That is pure bunk and has been disproved multiple thousands of times. That just may be the barrel rifling you have heard about. If you ever pick up a Marlin that has microgroove rifling remember that speed is your friend with cast boolits.

Dave

[calsite]

I've heard the same thing about micro-groove barrels, have a Marlin 1895CB and it shoots cast boolits great, not sure which type of rifling I know Marlin went back to Ballard style rifling a few years back, which according to articles I've read is supposed to be more gracious towards lead boolits. I've also heard that the new polygonal (round bottom) rifling doesnot shoot cast boolits very well. When I was building muzzeloaders down in Missouri some of the newer barrels we got in had round bottom rifling, of course we were only shooting patched round balls out of them. Heard no complaints and the round bottoms seemed to clean abit easier. Well, that's my two cents worth, Pobably the best advice is talk to many people who shoot cast and out of he fireams that you're interested in, I feel that this is a great forum to do some of that. Good Luck.

[Bass Ackward]

I used to think I knew exactly what it took for a good cast barrel. But in truth, it's different for every caliber based upon the technique and what you shoot. If you like to shoot hard in a rifle for an example, the last thing you want is tall rifling for a 22 caliber. But for a 45 caliber, it might not be such a disadvantage in case you want to shoot soft once in awhile. If you are shooting soft and using black powder, you can't get tall enough rifling to deal with fouling.

So what you need is based upon what you want to do with it really. Otherwise, it's uniform dimensions and a smooth finish. That's the part that you don't always get no matter what you pay.

[Blammer]

I'd think twist may be a factor....

so from what I hear make sure your not wound up too tightly....

[felix]

Rule: never twist more than you have to. Always have a maximum range in mind, as well as a minimum velocity. For shear accuracy, never pick a boolit heavier than necessary to get the intended job done, and that includes diameter (caliber). ... felix

[Bass Ackward]

Go to this sight and click on the appropriate type of Internet connection in the orange part in the center that says comparison video.

http://www.riflebarrels.com/


Now I will bet that that Remington barrel would shoot jacketed just fine at least after awhile. It will break in and clean up with fire lapping of jacketed rounds. It would probably be OK for heavy cast that would be long enough to reach across the low spots, but only at low velocity too. That barrel would never be capable of HV use and may still require better lube or a harder bullet than the next guys is using. Choking would not help in this case.

And the majority factory barrels are like this to a degree.

[John Boy]

I'd think twist may be a factor....
Blammer has the heart of the issue. Twist - CALIBER/Cast Bullet Weight Specific IMHO is the most important factor when considering a new barrel

The 2nd important factor is the free bore - leade dimensions of the chamber. Cast bullets require a different chamber configuration than jacketed bullets to shoot good groups.

[MeestaSparkle]

The 2nd important factor is the free bore - leade dimensions of the chamber. Cast bullets require a different chamber configuration than jacketed bullets to shoot good groups.

I understand the twist rate should be slow (as possible for bullet/velocity), can you guys give me anything quantitative about the throat? What kind of throat does well for, say 124 gr truncated cone 9mm; how does that differ from the best throat for a .30 cal loverin, or 115 gr 9mm fmj, etc, etc?

My other question was rifling depth and style, but it seems like you guys have answered that above.

Thanks!

[Bent Ramrod]

Somebody quoted me once an alleged observation in one of the issues of Fouling Shot that the best cast boolit barrel was a match barrel which had been fired with jacketed bullets until it was no longer competitive. You would then cut off the chamber, rethread, rechamber over the burned leade and throat part, and supposedly the rest of the barrel was polished, burnished and perfect for cast boolits.

I am presently working on this theory, with a Krieger barrel that the seller unloaded to me because he didn't think it would go through the complete shooting season. I'm having the kind of preliminary results one would expect when one hears of easy miracles: promising, but no 1"-100yd groups as yet.

[Bass Ackward]

Somebody quoted me once an alleged observation in one of the issues of Fouling Shot that the best cast boolit barrel was a match barrel which had been fired with jacketed bullets until it was no longer competitive. You would then cut off the chamber, rethread, rechamber over the burned leade and throat part, and supposedly the rest of the barrel was polished, burnished and perfect for cast boolits.

I am presently working on this theory, with a Krieger barrel that the seller unloaded to me because he didn't think it would go through the complete shooting season. I'm having the kind of preliminary results one would expect when one hears of easy miracles: promising, but no 1"-100yd groups as yet.


BR,

Not bad. But the most wear that affects jacketed accuracy occurs at the muzzle as the hot gasses that are lighter than the bullet escape and cause cutting. To add to your description, you need to cut 1/4" of the muzzle of that barrel and recrown to get the best results.

[bullshot]

Anyone heard or witnessed that cut rifled barrels shoot cast boolits better than button rifled barrels.I have heard this from several people,but have no experience myself.