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View Full Version : .35 REM Leaving Lead in Spent Case (pics)



theMickster
05-29-2014, 06:51 PM
I fired about 16 rounds today from my 1979 .35 Rem. They were reduced loads using a NOE 200 FPGC with the checks installed. Bullets pan lubed and sized to .3595. Lee FCD was used to put a moderate crimp right in the groove. Stoked with 9gn of Red Dot.
After expending my ammo I picked up the brass and noticed a lead ring around some of the case mouths. Is this bad? What causes this?
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/woodenarrow/Mobile%20Uploads/20140529_153002.jpg (http://s125.photobucket.com/user/woodenarrow/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140529_153002.jpg.html)

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/woodenarrow/Mobile%20Uploads/20140529_150225.jpg (http://s125.photobucket.com/user/woodenarrow/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140529_150225.jpg.html)

35remington
05-29-2014, 06:54 PM
The primer kicks the bullet out of the case while the ring crimp has a firm grip on the bullet, and the crimp doesn't "unfold" like a roll crimp does. Often a fired case will not accept a bullet, proof that the FCD leaves a more persistent crimp than a roll crimper does.

Ease up on the crimp a bit. It doesn't have to be applied with a death grip. Better yet......roll crimp.

I've always maintained that a roll crimp was and is kinder to a cast bullet than a LFC. That is, the collet type.

Any amount of lead removed theoretically unbalances the bullet especially if it not removed evenly. Whether it makes a difference or not only you can determine by results on target.

theMickster
05-29-2014, 07:20 PM
Thanks for the response 35.
I'm kinda new to the boolits thing. I've read a lot about the praises of the Lee Factory Crimp Die for cast. The cases I have were once fired and it looks like they had one he11 of a factory crimp. I figured the Lee would straighten that out a bit. I will try the roll crimp for the next batch or go a little easier on the Lee. Thanks a bunch!

blikseme300
05-29-2014, 07:48 PM
Back off on the crimp die. You only need to remove the bell from the case mouth. Looking at the pictures you will see that much of the crimp is still intact.

theMickster
05-29-2014, 07:57 PM
Thanks for the response blikseme300.
Most of that crimp you see is the remnant of the original factory crimp on the jword bullets. It was still visible after sizing, belling, seating, and crimping with the Lee FCD. Perhaps virgin brass would not have the same issue with stripping lead.

Mick

chsparkman
05-29-2014, 09:32 PM
Just checking, but did you de-burr the inside of the case mouth before loading a lead boolit? I had to learn that one early in my casting career.

Pb2au
05-29-2014, 09:37 PM
Good call on the deburring. Always a good thing to check.
Also, double check the amount of belling/expanding on the mouth. Make sure you are allowing enough to get the boolit started. It is possible you might be shaving the boolit when you are seating it, and that is the remnant.
And,,,,,,make sure that the boolit is pretty straight when you set it in the case mouth. If it is not straight, it can shave when it is passing into the die.

theMickster
05-29-2014, 10:33 PM
chsparkman, the brass was fully processed. De-burred, chamfered, inside and out flash holes de-burred.
I'm pretty sure .35 Remington was on the money with too a tight crimp.
Pb2au, the case mouths were plenty belled. I ruined the first two going too far. Oops, live and learn. :)

I appreciate all the responses guys. I love the willingness of everyone here to help.

Thanks again!

Mick

runfiverun
05-29-2014, 10:39 PM
your crimp,,, stop it.

Wayne Smith
05-30-2014, 07:56 AM
35 Rem, I'm guessing a lever gun. Needs a little crimp unless shooting single shot. Might be interesting to load some with no crimp and load single shot and see what happens, but that's not a hunting load in this gun.

44man
05-30-2014, 10:44 AM
Soft boolits with a FCD crimp! The boolit opens crimp, not gas pressure. You are scraping off lead. No crimp should be left after shooting. Harden the boolits and go to a roll crimp. Just enough, not over done. Amazing how many like the FCD, Lee has it wrong, they are not for lead boolits.

Maximumbob54
05-30-2014, 11:04 AM
I use an M die in all my lead bullet rifle loads and I close them all with the Lee FCD. BUT... I set an very light crimp. If you can see where the collet is leaving lines in the brass then you are setting it too hard.

44man
05-30-2014, 11:41 AM
It was proven the FCD will ruin jacketed. Why fool with it? Would not a roll crimp be better?

blikseme300
05-30-2014, 05:47 PM
Soft boolits with a FCD crimp! The boolit opens crimp, not gas pressure. You are scraping off lead. No crimp should be left after shooting. Harden the boolits and go to a roll crimp. Just enough, not over done. Amazing how many like the FCD, Lee has it wrong, they are not for lead boolits.

Why not? In pistol I might agree as I have heard/read about problems when using it. For rifle CB loading I have had success using it but not to the excessive crimp it is capable of.

chsparkman
05-30-2014, 10:23 PM
I'll have to watch my crimp, as I have just started reloading for 35 Rem as well. Good info in this thread.

Piedmont
05-31-2014, 01:46 AM
It was proven the FCD will ruin jacketed. Why fool with it? Would not a roll crimp be better?

I believe that "proof" was in a competitor's advertising copy and the way I remember the photo they WAY overdid the crimp. Properly applied it shouldn't be a problem. The rifle FCD has been credited with increased accuracy by impartial experimenters because it tends to make the loaded ammo straighter. The bullet started more straightly shoots better. Whether that carries over to softer cast boolits I don't know.

hickfu
05-31-2014, 02:45 AM
I purchased another seating/roll crimp die for my 35 Rem so I dont have to seat and crimp in 1 step.... I hate Lee FCD's


Doc

runfiverun
05-31-2014, 03:52 AM
holding a boolit inline with the barrels centerline makes it shoot better.

the crimped ammo just holds the bullet longer making the ignition characteristics of the primer better.
after that much [enough] it just makes things worse.
the crimp is not what even does the work it's neck tension, the crimp overcomes momentum longer and holds things in place while it [the cartridge] moves from point-A to point-B.

popper
05-31-2014, 11:17 AM
Neck turned brass? Did you anneal afterwards? Inside & outside chamfer? Never seen necks like that before. I FCD ALL rifle loads & never see a crimp line after processing the fired brass except some Fed or Hornady from factory loading & that was 30.30, 308MX. I do NOT crimp in a groove. Even with coated boolits, I've had chamber end leading with really fast powders.

theMickster
05-31-2014, 08:05 PM
That is how they came "once fired."

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/woodenarrow/Mobile%20Uploads/20140531_152503-1.jpg (http://s125.photobucket.com/user/woodenarrow/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140531_152503-1.jpg.html)

All the same headstamp.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/woodenarrow/Mobile%20Uploads/20140531_152646.jpg (http://s125.photobucket.com/user/woodenarrow/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140531_152646.jpg.html)

popper
05-31-2014, 10:17 PM
Your first pic shows some scuffing or ridges, second doesn't have them which I thought was unusual. Various factories crimps leave marks but my Lee doesn't leave much marking. Over crimping makes it look like a roll crimp.something has to be hammering the lead onto the mouth, else it will separate during extraction.