358 winchester questions

[glockky]

I plan on my next encore barrel purchase to be a 358 winchester but I have a few questions about it first.

I like short barrels on my encores and was wanting to know how much velocity I would be giving up going to a 20" barrel? And would I really be hurting the potential of the cartridge?

What dies do you like for forming brass from 308. I planned to buy the hornady dies but wanted to make sure there was not a better option.

What powders do you like in the 358? I noticed in my lyman cast bullet handbook they only showed faster burning powders for the 358 winchester. I was hoping that I would have a powder that would work already and not have to try and find some during this powder shortage. The rifle powders I have are IMR4350,3031,4198, win 760 and hodgdon superformance.

What bullet weight do you prefer? I have the NOE 360-180 which drops a bullet about 187gr checked and lubed. Also have the NOE 35-200 in the flat nose and hp.

thanks for the help

[Pilgrim]

200 gr. & up seem to be the preferred boolits for the .358 Win. Any medium burning powder works OK. Your rifle will indicate it's preference. I'm fueling mine with VVN135 / RCBS 35-200 / 22" barrel / velocity is 2400+. My dies are RCBS and I have no complaints with their performance. Feed the sizer a .308 case and a .358 case appears when the ram is lowered. No fuss at all. My BLR originally had a 18.5" barrel. Besides being a lousy barrel, it was extremely loud & truly painful to shoot, even with two plugs in my ears. I'd guess a 20" barrel would only lose 50 fps or so over a 22" barrel. Muzzle blast from shorter barrels is a consideration I'd not discount too quickly. The difference in rifle handiness as barrels are shortened is overblown IMO, unless you're hunting in the middle of a blackberry bush or similar terrain. FWIW... Pilgrim

[joesig]

The RCBS manual list IMR 4198 for the 158 SWCw/ gascheck. 25.0gr = 1802 fps 27.0=1941 with a 22" barrel.

IMR 4198 with the 180 Sil 24.0 gr = 1660 fpc 26.0 = 1727

The 35-200 list the IMR 4350 42.0 gr = 1769 44.0 = 1849

The 4th edition Lyman shows IMR 4198 with the 358315 25.0 gr = 1643 fps and 16500 CUP 30.5gr = 1981 fps and 27600 CUP.

My RCBS 358 set has a nice tapered expander. It's also a few years old so I can't swear to what RCBS is putting out today. I will say I would get RCBS first. I read about a number of problems with Hornady dies. I'm rather surprised because their bullets, etc. are really nice.

[runfiverun]

I use the rcbs dies also and have no problems necking up 308 cases.
I also use an old steel 38 special size die and flair die to reload most of my cases...

the 200gr mold should do just fine, and the rifle powders you have will work without a problem.
I started in with the saeco 250gr boolit and rl-19 right off and just used jacketed data.
I bumped the load around a couple of grains shooting ladder tests and settled on 48.5 grs [mostly because of recoil] there wasn't much difference in accuracy between 48.5 and 50.0grs using military brass.

[Tatume]

The 358 Winchester has been my pet project this year. Using a variety of jacketed bullets and RCBS 35-200-FN cast bullets, I have had excellent results in a current production Browning BLR. The powders I've chosen are IMR4895 and IMR7383. With IMR4895 I've been using loading data from the Hodgdon web site: http://hodgdon.com/

My velocities have not matched published speeds, possibly because of the 20" barrel on the BLR. However, I can still get well in excess of 2300 fps with IMR4895 and 200 grain jacketed bullets, while staying one grain below the Hodgdon published max load. With the RCBS bullet and loads several grains below the published max I'm getting 2250 fps, and with IMR7383 the cast bullet is running 1800 fps.

All of the loads I've mentioned here are very accurate, and I'm particularly pleased with the cast bullet and surplus powder. As I take great pride in getting close to game animals, just about any reasonable load for the 358 Winchester will suit my needs. I do not feel handicapped by the 20" barrel of the BLR.

[Djones]

I've had good luck with the NOE 360180 wfngc out of my 358 win. 2400 was the powder. 50/50 ww/Pb moly lube aluminum GC.

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/duckwhackercmon/A2F64935-428A-4F62-A722-142FEFE00CD6.jpg (http://s604.photobucket.com/user/duckwhackercmon/media/A2F64935-428A-4F62-A722-142FEFE00CD6.jpg.html)

[glockky]

I use the rcbs dies also and have no problems necking up 308 cases.
I also use an old steel 38 special size die and flair die to reload most of my cases...

the 200gr mold should do just fine, and the rifle powders you have will work without a problem.
I started in with the saeco 250gr boolit and rl-19 right off and just used jacketed data.
I bumped the load around a couple of grains shooting ladder tests and settled on 48.5 grs [mostly because of recoil] there wasn't much difference in accuracy between 48.5 and 50.0grs using military brass.

So you are just neck sizing and flaring with the 38 special dies?

[runfiverun]

yep..

[glockky]

Ill have to try that I figured the shoulder would hit before the expander did.

Just from reading on here I am assuming I should be looking for some 4895 too.

[runfiverun]

depends on what you expect from the rifle.
moderate velocity's = 2400 to 4895/varget/4064.
if you want speed you need to go to slower powders and push the boolit down the barrel further.
I use 4831 in my 308's and rl-19 in my 358.
I get 2350-2400 or so from both of them.

[GLynn41]

I have an18.5" Ruger and a couple of 22" -- the 18.5 is will go 2350- 2400 with a 200 gr JSP --now i use the Saeco 245 boolit and the starting load of H322-- Never clocked it I did take on deer with this load
the savage M-99E goes 2490 same load -- and the other 22" will go 2600 +
18.5 is slower than one 22'' by 90-140 fps-- and 200 fps over other one which i am starting use the same saeco boolit in

[glockky]

Thanks for the info.

[MBTcustom]

Ive got some experience with this cartridge.
The very best accuracy I have gotten with it was with reformed LC Match brass, IMR3031, Federal 210 primers, and the RCBS 35-200-FN boolit cast from 50/50 WW and pure.
Lube was FWFL Javelina, or White Label 2500+ (FWFL was best).
Sub MOA speeds with a 24" barrel were pushed to 2400FPS with a 14 twist
SUB MOA speeds with a 21" barrel were pushed to 2100FPS with a 14 twist

3031 and 4895 have given excellent results, but 4198 sucked rocks and turned my precious groups into shotgun blasts.

No other boolit has performed even close the RCBS 35-200-FN for me. I tried the 358009, RCBS 35-250-FN, Lyman 358318, and many others I can't remember right now. Some were satisfactory, others were problem children, but the 200gr RCBS is just a miracle boolit.
If you fit it to the rifle like I mention in the sticky "just a few tips for new rifle casters" you will be golden.

[glockky]

Are you all using IMR4895 or H4895 ?

[Tatume]

Are you all using IMR4895 or H4895 ?

Consult http://hodgdon.com/ . They are very close. I use both.

[tommag]

I have the lee .358 dies. my first attempts at expanding lc brass were a disaster, with the shoulders collapsing. The expander button was nicely tapered, but rough as can be. The expander decapping part wanted to slip up in the die even with extreme tightening. I polished the expander part, and used a better lube on the inside of the neck, problem solved. Not my first choice, but I made it work.

[dragon813gt]

I can't recommend the Lee dies for case forming. The decapping/expander rod does not like to stay put. I bought a set of Redding dies and formed the cases w/ no issues. Tim(Goodsteel) currently has my rifle so I'm just waiting to get it back so I can work up some loads for it. I have Accurate's modified version of the 35-200 FN bullet. I was told, after I bought it, that it doesn't work very well. If this is the case I will just buy the real deal. I have IMR4895, W748 and Varget to work w/. Also have some others like SR4759 and the slow magnum pistol powders. My plan is to shoot a lot of lightweight pistol bullets overtop of W231.

[Tatume]

My 358 Winchester dies are also Lee brand. I've never lost a case, and every LC 68 case and every Winchester case I've reformed has been perfect. When reforming cases it is important to use excellent lube; I use Imperial Sizing Die Wax, inside and out.

[runfiverun]

the 4895's are quite close and you can throw in accurates 2495 and one of the reloader series too [rl-15 airc]
I do know that the two 4895's can flip flop their burn rate in many cases.
I have seen a switch from one to the other increase velocity [pressure] just enough to throw a load out of balance.
I seem to prefer the H kind with copper stuff and the I kind with naked lead.
the 2495 brand is the sweet heart powder in my ruger 223 with sierra 52gr match bullets.

[bandmiller2]

The 358W is a natural for lead, I fit and chambered a barrel to a Savage 99. It adores the RCBS 200 and will keep them right around an inch. The velocity loss from a shorter barrel doesn't amount to a row of peas its how the rifle balances that matters, a short whippy barrel is little better than a handgun. I use H-322 meters like a dream and I have a lot of it.