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ChrisCbr
05-28-2014, 04:57 AM
I'm trying to get a bead on what people here consider to be the dangers of the fluxing smoke coming off your sawdust/wax etc? Does it carry lead particulate with it or does it not? I extract and wear a respirator to be safe but I've not found a conclusive answer.

twc1964
05-28-2014, 06:33 AM
Chris, I'm fairly new here but as far as i have read on thus forum, the smoke will carry some lead. once u toss in the flux, light it up as soon as smoking begins and u won't have that problem. i tend to keep my distance until all flux is carbon then mix and remove dross. just my two cents .

Tatume
05-28-2014, 07:22 AM
One fellow on the list has the ability to measure lead deposited on surfaces. His outdoor casting station is affected by a predominant wind. He measured lead deposited on the building upwind and downwind of his casting operation, and found downwind locations to be substantially higher. This indicates that lead is being carried by the wind, presumably on smoke. I wish I could remember his name, and hope he joins in.

jonp
05-28-2014, 07:47 AM
I'm actually interested in the effects that the smoke has on people. I thought lead was mostly a danger to young kids development of brain functions or pregnant womens fetus development. Neither is a worry for me. I certainly am not going to stick my head over the pot in closed room but just how much danger is lead in the blood?

bedbugbilly
05-28-2014, 08:09 AM
Have you googled it? There have been many threads in regards to casting and "lead poisoning". If you cast in a well ventilated area, there shouldn't be a problem. In terms of the smoke - ANY smoke can be hazardous to a person't health. That's why we wore air paks on the fire department and even then, I ate more than my share of smoke in some situations.

Personally, I believe a person who casts has a better chance of being hit and killed by a car than he does from lead poisoning. Just use common sense, work in a well ventilated area and you'll be fine. If a person is concerned enough about it, there are tests that can be run to determine an individual'l "lead level". For many years, lead poisoning was a very serious concern - but much of this was due to children ingesting lead base paint and the use of lead water pipes for drinking water (a common practice many years ago).

I know this really doesn't answer your question but I think you have to look at a few medical sites in regards to the effects on the human body - or ask you physician. I can remember many years ago that I was casting and a friend stopped by. He sat on a five gallon bucket and asked all about what I was doing. He was very interested in the process and then asked "Aren't you afraid of getting lead poisoning?" I just looked up and smiled at him as he was sucking on a "Camel straight" cigarette.

tazman
05-28-2014, 08:35 AM
The dangers from lead poisoning are very real but easily controlled with simple precautions. Ventilation while casting and washing your hands after handling boolits or casting being the two main steps.
If you do these two things you shouldn't have any issues.

500MAG
05-28-2014, 08:42 AM
As Tazman said, ventilation is the key. Smelt and flux large amounts outside, cast in well ventilated area. I love the smell of flux in the morning.

mikeym1a
05-28-2014, 10:36 AM
This was discussed in another thread, and IIRC, one of the guys said the biggest dangers was from lead vapors, which you get when the lead is near boiling. We don't get the lead that hot, I hope. I guess some lead could come out with the flux, but, if you stay outside, and try to stay upwind of the breezes, you shouldn't have a problem. And, as suggested, wash your hand after handling the alloys. mikey

bangerjim
05-28-2014, 10:43 AM
Smoking cigarettes, cigars, weed, and pipes is more dangerous than melting lead!

Just stay upwind. Wash your hands. Do not eat finger food while casting or handling lead.

banger

mdi
05-28-2014, 12:30 PM
Geeze! If you set a pan full or wood chips, oil, wax, old paint, etc. on fire would you stand with your head over the pan and do deep breathing exercises? The smoke from fluxing ain't gonna track you down and envelope your head. I don't believe there are on third of the "dangers" reported to be connected to bullet casting as some say. Mebbe in CA lead has a personality and lurks around playgrounds looking for a kid to poison, but in the rest of the world it just is another naturally occurring metal that if one has any good/common sense is as safe as potting soil...

I apologize to any I have offended ranting about their "Chicken Little thinking", but handling lead is prolly safer than aerosol sprays, fueling your vehicle, and drinking coffee at McDonalds...

bangerjim
05-28-2014, 01:11 PM
Ca Condors circle overhead, seeking yummy lead to consume in mass quantities all the time! Have seen 'um!

(yuk...yuk...yuk)

Owl huggers and tree kissers.........gotta love 'um.

banger

leadman
05-28-2014, 03:16 PM
Lead is carried out of the lead pot even when the alloy temperature is around 700 degrees. I did have an increase in my blood lead level when I was making shot and casting. There was a metallic taste in my mouth, my teeth felt strange and the cutticle of my nails was purplish. My blood pressure was elevated also and did not respond to medication. My bll was only 12 so imagine what the symptons would have been at the OSHA actionable standard of 40.

Go to Home Depot or other similar stores and buy a lead test kit. Very easy to use and not all that expensive considering what could happen. You will be amazed where the lead ends up.

dondiego
05-28-2014, 04:09 PM
I know of men with blood lead levels of over 20 who have experienced no symptoms whatsoever. Are you sure you didn't have cadmium poisoning?

hickfu
05-28-2014, 04:22 PM
Ca Condors circle overhead, seeking yummy lead to consume in mass quantities all the time! Have seen 'um!

(yuk...yuk...yuk)

Owl huggers and tree kissers.........gotta love 'um.

banger

You laugh but I live here... Its getting so bad in Ca that I think they are making regulations that you can only hunt with Lead free Gummy bears and have to shoot them out of your rainbow rifle while thinking happy happy joy joy thoughts about your lesbian friends hugging a tree....

How I hate this state!!!!!!

Doc

mdi
05-28-2014, 06:04 PM
Well, I lived in So. CA for 60+ years and the last 25 I had a good job so I stayed. I fought as well as I could; I am a member of NRA, CA Rifle and Pistol Assn., and voted. I signed and circulated petitions, and it was an up hill battle. Most of the "slick anti-gun, anti-hunter" legislation was forced through by committee, not a vote. Some politician would hear the city dwelling tree huggers complain about how evil lead and hunters are and cave in every time, and push some ridiculous law through without the general public knowing about it. I realized I was just pounding sand so I left as soon as I could, retired and left the next day...

cbrick
05-28-2014, 07:31 PM
How I hate this state!!!!!! Doc

I've found that my hatred and disgust of CA has diminished considerably over the past two+ years. Amazing what escaping and moving back to America can do for ya. Would I ever go back? Not on a bet, not even for a visit because I couldn't even visit the state without spending money and a good portion of that money would end up in the hands of Sacramento socialists.


I realized I was just pounding sand so I left as soon as I could, retired and left the next day...

Wasn't quite the next day for me but it wasn't too much longer than that.


I'm trying to get a bead on what people here consider to be the dangers of the fluxing smoke coming off your sawdust/wax etc? Does it carry lead particulate with it or does it not? I extract and wear a respirator to be safe but I've not found a conclusive answer.

Welcome to CastBoolits ChrisCbr, I've been casting for decades and have never cast a single bullet outside. I have my blood lead level checked with every physical I get and it's never been higher than low adult normal and sometimes it doesn't even show up in the tests. I've never worn a respirator but I do use caution and the normal safety precautions such as good ventilation, keeping the casting area clean, washing my hands as soon as I'm finished, no eating while handling lead etc. Lead is much worse for kids under about 7 years old so if kids are in your life use extreme caution with them by keeping them well away from casting areas.

Rick

ChrisCbr
05-28-2014, 07:52 PM
Hi Rick, do you use a smokey flux is the question. Or do you use a smokeless flux. I'm not concerned about lead vapor, rather lead particulate borne on smoke aerosols. I am thinking this may have something to do with individuals who seemingly practice similar hygiene while casting only to have one person report poisoning while the other has low blood levels.

Down South
05-28-2014, 09:06 PM
Stand upwind of the smoke even you need to use a fan. Let the folks you don't like stand downwind and enjoy the savor.
That was posted as a joke but some might think it a good idea.

Once the lead is clean, you have scooped out all of the trash, you will be alright.

mdi
05-29-2014, 11:01 AM
FWIW; when I worked in L.A. for a major utility, we got a physical exam annually, which included lead level testing. For the last exam I had a "normal" lead level and I was shooting about 500 rounds per month, indoors and cast about the same amount of .44 caliber bullets. The only person I ever saw come up with high lead levels was the shop weldor (he insisted this was the correct spelling), and he didn't cast bullets (or sinkers), he only shot a .22 on his vacations, and never shot a "big bore" handgun indoors...

Jayhawkhuntclub
05-30-2014, 01:23 PM
You laugh but I live here... Its getting so bad in Ca that I think they are making regulations that you can only hunt with Lead free Gummy bears and have to shoot them out of your rainbow rifle while thinking happy happy joy joy thoughts about your lesbian friends hugging a tree....

How I hate this state!!!!!!

Doc Um dude... If you paid any attention at all, you'd know that gummy bears "have been found to cause cancer in California." I think organic tofu is your only option for a projectile under current state law.

mold maker
05-30-2014, 01:57 PM
The particulate you have to worry about is in the waste you dip off when fluxed. It is in the form of very fine dust of lead oxide that fluxing didn't reclaim. This dust can very easily become airborne if handled carelessly. I've cast since 1963, and never had more than normal background lead levels.
Just use common since with handling any lead product, and avoid breathing the oxide dust. If you don't inhale, or eat it, your fine.

Bonz
05-30-2014, 02:09 PM
I use a small fan to push the smoke away from me. Also helps keep me kool ;-)

303Guy
05-30-2014, 03:46 PM
I developed high blood lead. It was the dust from the dross - lead oxides. I was careless! Can't say I experienced any effects that could not be attributed to something else so no conclusions there.

johnme
05-30-2014, 09:39 PM
I have never had my blood checked for lead levels and was a plumber for 35 years, soldering 50/50 joints. lead flux paste called swift solder flux brush up the fitting on the inside , outside the pipe and heat add only a little solder, wipe with a dirty cotton rag for a lead drip free joint. In a crawl space the air looked like a Poker party was going on with all the smoke haze. Please just use a fan to clear the air. Be safe !

Whitespider
05-31-2014, 09:27 AM
I treat the smoke coming off a lead pot (from flux, dirt, or whatnot) the same way I treat the smoke coming off the welding of galvanized steel... I don't stick my head in the smoke. I do such things outside or in a well ventilated area (such as open shop doors), and wash up when I finish. I do have an exhaust fan in the wall above the casting area in the shop, which I can open and fire-up if there seems to be no air moving... I only use it occasionally. I make every attempt to keep my (likely) contaminated hands away from direct contact with my mouth. And I caution family members to avoid entering the shop if there is any visible smoke/haze (caused by whatever) exiting it.

Other than that common sense approach... I pay it no other consideration... I'm not the type to worry about the little stuff. Breathing smoke, any smoke, is likely to be an unhealthy activity; common sense tells me to minimize the amount whenever possible... but I ain't sweatin' it if I do breath a little now-and-then. It-is-what-it-is.

Personally, I believe the chances of receiving third-degree burns while playin' with molten lead is far greater than lead poisoning. But what do I know?? I'm just a country hick with a shooting fetish.

roberts1
05-31-2014, 10:08 AM
You laugh but I live here... Its getting so bad in Ca that I think they are making regulations that you can only hunt with Lead free Gummy bears and have to shoot them out of your rainbow rifle while thinking happy happy joy joy thoughts about your lesbian friends hugging a tree....

How I hate this state!!!!!!

Doc
Don't forget that rainbow rifle better only have a five gummy magazine and at least a 16" barrel. The lesbian version is known as a "strait rainbow" rifle

Three44s
05-31-2014, 10:19 AM
Smelt outside and pay attention to the smoke. I like to run my WW's etc. a couple of times to get them clean.

In my opinion the smokeless fluxing agent (Marvelux) is about as worthless as ........ $%@ ......... it cruds up your bottom pour pot and makes you handle more obnoxious material and more lead exposure than all smoke you get from wood sawdust combined.

I do my casting in a garage with lots of doors to open.

The problem I run into is that without a steady breeze, the smoke will start shifting and then you are doing the lead pot hokey pokey to stay out of it.

My Man Cave is provisionally plumbed for a range hood and that's where I'll make my stand in the "lead wars" once it's installed and running.

But my smelting will always be done outside ......... might even get creative and build a "Lead Smelting Gazebo" and make a hood for it ....... hook a shop vac to it or something?

Also, if you are worried about lead ........ you may want to keep things in persective ........ lead in primers at the indoor range and cleaning up your fired brass with a dry medium in your tumbler.

Best regards and most of all .......... WELCOME!

Three 44s

cwheel
05-31-2014, 10:24 AM
Retired and left 2 hours later with my retirement money, I'll never ever move back there.
Chris

mdi
05-31-2014, 11:20 AM
The particulate you have to worry about is in the waste you dip off when fluxed. It is in the form of very fine dust of lead oxide that fluxing didn't reclaim. This dust can very easily become airborne if handled carelessly. I've cast since 1963, and never had more than normal background lead levels.
Just use common since with handling any lead product, and avoid breathing the oxide dust. If you don't inhale, or eat it, your fine.

There it is. The answer. Voice of experience. New casters remember this...

butch2570
05-31-2014, 10:48 PM
FWIW; when I worked in L.A. for a major utility, we got a physical exam annually, which included lead level testing. For the last exam I had a "normal" lead level and I was shooting about 500 rounds per month, indoors and cast about the same amount of .44 caliber bullets. The only person I ever saw come up with high lead levels was the shop weldor (he insisted this was the correct spelling), and he didn't cast bullets (or sinkers), he only shot a .22 on his vacations, and never shot a "big bore" handgun indoors...And he is correct WELDER is the machine, WELDOR is the person making the welds.

Landshark9025
06-01-2014, 09:25 AM
I cast on the back porch. It has a solid roof and is screened on three sides. I try to set my table underneath a ceiling fan set to suck up. I use a layer of pine sawdust as flux and an O2 barrier. Even if I have a fan pointed to try to blow the smoke away, invariably the wind will shift and I get hit with pine smoke. Wind seems to swirl around the house. Once then sawdust has charred, it stops.

I just try to hold my breath and minimize it the best I can.

Leatherhead Bullets
06-03-2014, 11:05 PM
I have hoods over my three pots with a fan to draw the smoke etc. I do try to remember and were a OSHA approved organic vapor mask when fluxing and cooking (we coat with Hi-Tek). Better safe than sorry for sure.