lead question with pics

[colbyjack]

well went out to grandpas today and picked up some soft lead. he said its sheet lead plumbers use. heavy as heck, probably 18"x18" x stacked high as a pop can. i also came out with one stick of tin. pretty light, but where can i buy more of this?

i also got 2 blocks of bell wiping solder i was told its 50/50 i have no clue though.

there is also one big heavy stick bout as thick as a ball bat. looks like pure lead. hopefully all this stuff is useable. im still not set up yet. im waiting on my lead pot to come in.

hey how big of a pot do i need to smelt all this down in? and should i just melt the lead down to ingots for now? or should i try to get more tin and stuff to actually make it into bullet metal ingots for storage?

what do you guys use for a fire source to smelt? side burner on gas grill? turkey fryer burner?

well heres the pics dont know if this will help ya tell what the 2 ingots are or not?

ingots of bell wiping solder magazine to show scale

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f186/hawgz/lead012.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f186/hawgz/lead013.jpg

heres a couple chunks of soft lead scratches easy

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f186/hawgz/lead010.jpg

here is the small stick of tin i found

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f186/hawgz/lead009.jpg

heres this big chunk of lead looks to be as big as a ball bat in size maybe 2 1/2 ft long

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f186/hawgz/lead008.jpg

how do i get that in a pot to melt?

i found this lil cast pot. can i smelt in this or is it to small?

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f186/hawgz/lead007.jpg

heres that sheet lead 18x18x pop can tall

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f186/hawgz/lead006.jpg

how do i get that in a pot to melt?

any help or ideas will be great. im just trying to make .45 acp bullets. -chris

[wills]

You can use the search feature and search for newbie, also some of the common questions are answered in

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=6774

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=6520

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=6203

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=6108

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=6059

[dubber123]

I believe your "ball bat" sized chunk is linotype.

[454PB]

I disagree, dubber....I think it's a lead window counter weight. Probably pure or near pure lead.

[dale2242]

I agree with 454Pd. I think it`s a window weight. You can use the pot to melt the alloys. It looks like a 10# pot to me. I use a 20#er to do my smelting and alloying. Small pot just takes longer. I have used an axe to cut the sheet lead, or better yet use a heavy duty pair of tin snips. You may be able to cut the ball bat chunk with an axe. Set it on a solid, thick piece of wood and cut it into usable size pieces. If you have a propane or white gas camp stove, they work well to smelt and cast with.

[mroliver77]

I wouldnt make no big moves until you get more knowlege. Find a 2quqrt or 4 quart pane and clean up 10-20 lbs to get started. Do some casting with that to get your feet wet. You will prolly have a lot of rejects for a while anyhow. If you have some bullets of known hardness you can put one of yours butt to butt with a ball bearing or small rod between them in a vise and squish them together. See if the ball imprints more in one or the other. The softer will have a larger imprint. Wont tell you much but give you some idea what your working with. Water drop some then and repeat and you can tell if they get harder from the tempering. Just go slow!! Once you understand what you want from an alloy then you an make up a big batch. I whipped up a big batch once from unknown scrap and something was contaminated with zinc I imagine. The whole batch was messed up then. :( Did I mention to go slow? J

Oh ya, I keep reading that the muzzle loader shooters go gaga over the sheet lead and it could be more valuable as trading stock to them then as boolit material. I save mine for BP shooting. If that stick is a window weight you should be able to bend it, If it is lino it will bw very srtong.

[Buckshot]

..............So dubber123 and I are the only ones to have seen a linotype ingot before? :-) That's the way it comes, except the one in the picture has half the hanging loop busted off.

You can cut the lead sheeting and that bar of lino with a Skilsaw or reciprocating saw. You need to get yourself at least a muffin pan to cast the rendered stuff into. I got these at Wal-Mart:

http://www.fototime.com/432F142B09E587B/standard.jpg

They're mini loaf pans, and hold about 1.5 lbs each. I had round ones before but these stack better. My suggestion is to melt the bar of lino down and cast it into ingots. Once cooled use a magic marker and put a 'L' on each one so you may recognize them as lino.

Ditto the soft lead. Melt them up and cast them into ingots and mark them 'PL' or somesuch for pure lead.

For the stick of tin, it'll be used in small quantieis, so make it into small pieces. Easiest to do is to merely hold it over a small container with water in it. Either use a propane torch to melt it and let it drip into the water, or melt it in a ladel and dribble it into the water. You'll end up with small teardrop shaped pieces of tin. Pour off the water, spread them on some alum foil on a cookie sheet and place in the sun or an oven at 200 degrees for a couple hours. Pour them into a suitable container. Now they'll be easy to weigh out.

I don't know but possibly the lead already cast up into ingots might just be WW alloy. If they're harder then the pure lead and softer then your bar of lino, then that's probably what they are.

Now your lead scrap is all batched up nicely and marked so you know what you have. The pure lead isn't much good for smokless loads unless you're planning on paper patching. If you don't need it you can possibly trade it off for WW alloy. Muzzle loaders are ALWAYS desperate for real pure lead. BTW, if there are any soldered seams or joints, cut them out before rendering the sheets down. These joints will be tin rich from the solder.

................Buckshot

[Dross]

Nice score!

That looks like a sash-weight to me, a huge one no doubt, but a window-weight none the less.

Let us know the Brunell reading!

[colbyjack]

the heavy big bar i got is harder than the sheet lead and i cant bend it like the sheet lead. -chris

[Typecaster]

If it's harder, it's Linotype, and probably weighs about 22-23 lb. The Linotype "pigs" were hung from a chain with just the end in the melting pot of the Lintoype machine; that's how I melt mine down into Lyman ingots as well. It's always possible that someone processed WWs and used a Linotype pig mold, but not likely. I always do a comparison test—at least see how easily it scratches with a key—before I buy Linotype in pigs. Once you've processed the pure lead, scratch a (cooled) ingot, then a WW, then the Linotype. You'll see a dramatic difference in how deeply they'll scratch.

[Blammer]

I'd use all your little "SAECO" bars first. Should be good to go for cast as is. That will give you a great amount of experience to start with.

the sheet lead it really close to pure lead. just bend it as needed to get it in the pot to melt.

I'd keep the sheet lead, the window sash, and the ingots seperate. Melt each seperate and cast into your own ingots to clean em up and to get a "feel" for the different types and how they melt.

I'd look for a bigger pot.

[454PB]

I have about ten 10 kilo linotype ingots, and all of them have flat bottoms for stacking. Window counter weights are round so that they fit within the casement and won't hang up while moving up and down therein. Can you imagine trying to stack round ingots? I still think that round one is a window weight.

[jhalcott]

That's what I am thinking. I've seen/used both sash weights and Linotype pigs. the pigs have a flat side .

[Adam10mm]

Oh ya, I keep reading that the muzzle loader shooters go gaga over the sheet lead and it could be more valuable as trading stock to them then as boolit material.
Crap. I just melted over 100# of sheet lead today. I melted about 600# of lead, lino and WW.

[colbyjack]

That's what I am thinking. I've seen/used both sash weights and Linotype pigs. the pigs have a flat side .


heres more pics of it....................

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f186/hawgz/leadlino002.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f186/hawgz/leadlino001.jpg

-chris

[MT Gianni]

That flat sheet lead was used for shower pans and you can consider tit to be pure. Gianni

[454PB]

Looking at the new picture, it could be linotype. In the first one, it looked round.

Here's a test.....put an ingot under that long piece near one end, then smack it with a 3 lb. hand sledge. If it's linotype, it will break like ceramic and you'll see a very crystaline appearance on the broken ends. If it's pure lead, it will simply bend.

[MtGun44]

Looks exactly like my 20 bars of linotype. I was told that they were cast
that way to feed the linotype machine.

Linotype will fracture if you try to chisel off a chunk. A cold chisel will cut
a bit then the chunk will brittle fracture leaving a visible grain structure.
Try gouging a small chunk off to verify linotype. Lino also will crack/shatter if
you put a small chunk (boolit size) on an anvil and smack it hard with
a hammer - squish some, then break.

Bill

[imashooter2]

If it was pure, the chain loop wouldn't have cracked off.

[Stevejet]

I've cut 40 lb. aircraft flight test square donuts (lead ballast) that was 4" high by 2 1/2" thick with a Black & Decker reciprocating saw and a coarse blade. Otherwise it was never going into my Lyman or Lee lead furnace pots.

[Lloyd Smale]

the bar defeniatley looks like a lynotype bar. the 3rd pic down the one by the clip looks like plumbers lead which should be pure and the sheats look like cable sheathing that was cut off. Ive had a bunch of it and its almost pure and can be treated as pure. The wiping solder i had was 60/40 tin/lead.

[wills]

..............So dubber123 and I are the only ones to have seen a linotype ingot before? :-) That's the way it comes, except the one in the picture has half the hanging loop busted off.

................Buckshot

My first casting expierence invloved about 350,000,000 grains of those

[colbyjack]

well the long stick isnt lino. talked to grandpa and he said it was his bullet metal he just poured into a pipe he had cut in half. so not lino just mixed lead. he couldnt remember the other day but now he does.....lol -chris

[boommer]

This is the way I sort my lead scrape out when I am not sure what it is. If you drop the piece OF PURE LEAD on the concrete from about a foot it will go thud! The more it rings in sound when it hits the ground the more antimony it has in it so this is a broad way of getting an idea what your dealing with. lino will ring purdy loud this is a way to fast check what you are buying or smelting ( just REDNECK SCIENTIFIC LOGIC )

[snuffy]

The long bar is lino! No doubt in my mind. Here's some I had along with some I just got off fleabay.

http://photos.imageevent.com/jptowns/arrow/websize/P1160030.JPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/jptowns/arrow/websize/P1160031.JPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/jptowns/arrow/websize/P1160032.JPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/jptowns/arrow/websize/P1160033.JPG

The nicks in it are from me TRYING to cut it with an axe. It's MUCH easier to cut with a skill saw! The other shiny stuff is from an auction on fleabay, I got it for $1.25/lb. delivered.

Chris, the shape on the ends of that long ingot couldn't be formed in a half pipe. Notice the round side is not circular, but shaped more like a "U" or round bottomed "V".

[imashooter2]

well the long stick isnt lino. talked to grandpa and he said it was his bullet metal he just poured into a pipe he had cut in half. so not lino just mixed lead. he couldnt remember the other day but now he does.....lol -chris

Doesn't make sense. If Grampa had cut a pipe in half and used it for an ingot mold, the ends would be pipe cap square and there wouldn't be a chain loop. It might not be lino, but it was cast in a commercial lino mold.

[colbyjack]

ill try to break it tonight and see what happens. it looks just like your lino stick. im just saying grandpa may or may not have a clue. hes up in the late 80's and doesnt remember everything. im going to drop it or cut it tonight and ill post pics.

i do appreciate all the help. ive learned alot in the week or so ive been on board.

that is true if he did use a pipe for a mold. both ends would be the same. and both ends would have a different shape then what is posted. hmmmm i think grandpa just forgot or is thinking of something else.

im gear should be here this week. ill use up the other lead before i mess with the stick and the pure lead. i better get my feet wet before i swim.... lol -chris