E-Bay bidding

[oldred]

I have bought a lot of things from E-Bay and have gotten some really good deals, lately I have noticed something strange in the bidding procedure. I watch a fairly large number of cutting tools (mostly end mills) at any one time looking for those real bargains and often an item will have a minimum starting price but zero bids, it may remain at zero until a few hours before bidding ends then suddenly have one, two or more bids showing but the bid amount has remained unchanged at the starting price????? This may not be anything new at all but just something I had not noticed until now but it's kind of puzzling, anyone know what's happening here?

[smokeywolf]

I've bought quite a few machinist's tools on the Bay and I don't remember encountering that.

I'll have to watch for it.

[shooterbob]

Sometimes its because of a dutch style auction. If the seller has multiple items the bid can stay the same but each bidder will get one of the items at the same price. I've also seen as a seller that a buyer will increase his maximum bid and it will show up as a bid but the price won't change until someone bids higher than he did.

[Bad Water Bill]

Back in Dec I saw a bunch of Lyman NEW stuff up for bid.

I contacted the seller to see if he would take a money order (I hate PLAY pail) and he responded yes and sent his addy.

Well I won and for less than 1/2 of what Lyman prices were.

Off to pick up the M O and it was in the mail in less than2 hours after the close.

Sent the seller the M O # and waited for my goodies.

A week goes by then 2 and no package or reply.

His answer was WHAT m o?

Luckily it was only $20.00 or so.

If you put something up for auction and you are not happy with the results just tear up the winners M O and deny ever receiving it and you are home free.

To bad it doesn't work that way with the I R S.

And NO he never filed a complaint of non payment.

[imashooter2]

If the original bidder goes back and increases his maximum before anyone else bids, a glitch in the system will display the item as having (2) bids submitted, but the current bid "price" will be unchanged.

[oldred]

If the original bidder goes back and increases his maximum before anyone else bids, a glitch in the system will display the item as having (2) bids submitted, but the current bid "price" will be unchanged.



That makes sense because with the first bid the price would remain the same, the price showing that is.

[Echo]

Maybe others are like me - I don't look at anything with more than a day left on the auction. I look generally, not specifically, look to see if something catches my attention, and maybe bid my max, including shipping. If I win, great - if not, C'est la vie...

[Handloader109]

Back in Dec I saw a bunch of Lyman NEW stuff up for bid.

I contacted the seller to see if he would take a money order (I hate PLAY pail) and he responded yes and sent his addy.

Well I won and for less than 1/2 of what Lyman prices were.

Off to pick up the M O and it was in the mail in less than2 hours after the close.

Sent the seller the M O # and waited for my goodies.

A week goes by then 2 and no package or reply.

His answer was WHAT m o?

Luckily it was only $20.00 or so.

If you put something up for auction and you are not happy with the results just tear up the winners M O and deny ever receiving it and you are home free.

To bad it doesn't work that way with the I R S.

And NO he never filed a complaint of non payment.

Did you save your receipt? You can find out if it was ever cashed? If so, I'd have let "Bay know along with the seller.

[oldred]

Maybe others are like me - I don't look at anything with more than a day left on the auction. I look generally, not specifically, look to see if something catches my attention, and maybe bid my max, including shipping. If I win, great - if not, C'est la vie...



I do pretty much the same thing except I save interesting items in my watch list even if they are new listings, I never bid on them at that time I just save them to the list. I go down the list usually once a day and if any of the items have picked up more than two or three bids or if the price is approaching my max I will just delete that item and go on to the next one, the top of the list is the shortest time items so I can always know the status of it without having to look at all the listings.

It's amazing what happens sometimes, not long ago I placed two extra long length 9/16" Accupro carbide TiN coated end mills on my watch list while they were new listings with six days left. The starting bid was $15 and for six days no one placed a single bid, in the last few seconds someone bid $16 and I followed that with a bid of $75 and won the darn things for $17.50 and $7.45 shipping! $24.95 total for $321.76 worth of brand new end mills ($160.88 each at MSC) for a nickle under $25! I fully expected the guy to back out on the deal and I honestly would not have left bad feed back for him if he had of but four days later they arrived in my mailbox, yeah I love E-Bay!

[imashooter2]

I use a free sniping program. I look at newly listed items, decide what I'm willing to pay and program a bid in the last seconds of the auction. Then I forget about it unless / until I get a "You Won" email.

[Ehaver]

I use a free sniping program. I look at newly listed items, decide what I'm willing to pay and program a bid in the last seconds of the auction. Then I forget about it unless / until I get a "You Won" email.

I do this to. It has won me many of Auctions. Is it fair? I dunno, maybe not. But, it works.

[imashooter2]

I do this to. It has won me many of Auctions. Is it fair? I dunno, maybe not. But, it works.

Everyone has the ability to do the same. Some choose not to. How can that be unfair?

[dragon813gt]

Everyone has the ability to do the same. Some choose not to. How can that be unfair?

It's not unfair. It's just playing the game. I really don't bother w/ eBay unless the items are Buy It Now. I'm impatient and very rarely have I gotten a deal through an auction. Same goes w/ Gunbroker. I prefer to plop down my money for an item at a good price and have it shipped to me in a day or so. I don't need a deal to good to be true.

[opos]

For anyone that uses Ebay, pay pal or e snipe (or any of the other sniping programs)...E bay and pay pal have been hacked and if you go to their account pages you will find their "urging" to change you pass word...both e bay and pay pal...if you have a snipe program and change your e bay password you will need to furnish the new password to the snipe program or your snipe bids will no longer work...Sniping is not unfair..anyone can get E snipe or one of the other programs...no way will I sit there and click time after time toward the end of an auction when there is a service that will do that for me for a very small fee...I put in the amount I'm willing to pay and about 6 seconds before the item is sold it begins the process of electronic bidding for me....usually there are many other folks doing the same thing so it happens fast and the one with the highest snipe bid wins...you can't click fast enough to keep up if not using a snipe bid...if you have put in a regular bid with a high limit and that limit is higher than the snipe bidding you will still win the item....but it is not unfair..

[lancem]

Back in Dec I saw a bunch of Lyman NEW stuff up for bid.

I contacted the seller to see if he would take a money order (I hate PLAY pail) and he responded yes and sent his addy.

Well I won and for less than 1/2 of what Lyman prices were.

Off to pick up the M O and it was in the mail in less than2 hours after the close.

Sent the seller the M O # and waited for my goodies.

A week goes by then 2 and no package or reply.

His answer was WHAT m o?

Luckily it was only $20.00 or so.

If you put something up for auction and you are not happy with the results just tear up the winners M O and deny ever receiving it and you are home free.

To bad it doesn't work that way with the I R S.

And NO he never filed a complaint of non payment.

So you broke ebay rules by not paying by paypal, the seller broke ebay rules by accepting payment other than paypal, you get ripped off and it's ebay's fault the way I'm reading it... Play stupid games win stupid prizes.... If you had paid by paypal and the seller hadn't sent the item you would have gotten your $20 back no problem, I guess I don't see what your complaint is, hard to call a foul if you don't play by the rules.

[Bad Water Bill]

So you broke ebay rules by not paying by paypal, the seller broke ebay rules by accepting payment other than paypal, you get ripped off and it's ebay's fault the way I'm reading it... Play stupid games win stupid prizes.... If you had paid by paypal and the seller hadn't sent the item you would have gotten your $20 back no problem, I guess I don't see what your complaint is, hard to call a foul if you don't play by the rules.

And some folks here lately always have to try and start an argument every chance they can.

Each time I contact a seller it is done thru and saved on my Evil bay records.

I have been doing it this way for over 8 years and discussed my few problems over the phone with folks at Evil bay and not one time has Evil bay said I violated THEIR rules.

I am sure if I did anything against their rules I would have been told by them instead of a computer ninja.

I obey all of the rules there AND at this site as well.

We have had to many folks lately trying to cause trouble on this site.

Now IF you can show me chapter and verse in the Evil bay rules that I have broken even one of their rules FINE and I will apologize.

[oldred]

So you broke ebay rules by not paying by paypal, the seller broke ebay rules by accepting payment other than paypal, you get ripped off and it's ebay's fault the way I'm reading it... Play stupid games win stupid prizes.... If you had paid by paypal and the seller hadn't sent the item you would have gotten your $20 back no problem, I guess I don't see what your complaint is, hard to call a foul if you don't play by the rules.



Where in the E-Bay rules does it say a buyer is REQUIRED to use Paypal??????

Come on show us where it's a violation!

[oldred]

I use a free sniping program. I look at newly listed items, decide what I'm willing to pay and program a bid in the last seconds of the auction. Then I forget about it unless / until I get a "You Won" email.


I have been considering doing this also but I have been a bit nervous about giving out my E-Bay user name and password to complete strangers. Even if these people are well meaning, and it looks as if they are just enterprising individuals who came up with a good money making idea, we have no idea of how good their security is or how honest everyone directly involved is. A hacker could easily steal this info if the site's security is lax (how much were they willing to spend on security?) and dishonest individuals or even pranksters could wreak havoc with an E-Bay account, if that happened through a site that is independent of E-Bay what would be our recourse? Still snipping is getting harder to do all the time and I imagine it's due to programs such as this.


BTW, to those who think snipping is unfair E-Bay itself actually ENCOURAGES the practice and indeed not long ago they even took steps to make doing so easier by moving the countdown clock to the confirmation page. Check out snipping at E-Bays Q/A or FAQ sections.

[Teddy (punchie)]

Bill

The bay is the Bay, years ago it was different and now PP and Evil are one. I just let it roll if someone's opinion is just hard.

I do recall reading years ago now, that Evil Bay was going to make it a policy only to use PP. Unless it was larger and condition for pickup. Not sure about it now, most use PP(Evil Bay) payment.

Not as easy to contract people. Years ago I would e-mail all of the bidders if someone sha.fted me. Explain how and why and what the Ebayer did.

[Finster101]

So you broke ebay rules by not paying by paypal, the seller broke ebay rules by accepting payment other than paypal, you get ripped off and it's ebay's fault the way I'm reading it... Play stupid games win stupid prizes.... If you had paid by paypal and the seller hadn't sent the item you would have gotten your $20 back no problem, I guess I don't see what your complaint is, hard to call a foul if you don't play by the rules.

Before you jump on somebody you need to get your facts straight. No where does it say you must use paypal on e-bay. It is against the rules to contact the seller to see if they will sell outside of e-bay.

[dragon813gt]

Took two seconds to find: http://pages.ebay.com/help/pay/methods.html

They really don't want you paying w/ checks or money orders. It even states they aren't allowed for most purchases. The category that Lyman tool was under was most likely not one that is authorized to offer a money order payment option.

Here is some more reading: http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/accepted-payments-policy.html

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/accepted-payments-policy.html#categories

While a poster went about it the wrong way and sounded like he was trying to pick a fight. You did violate their rules by sending a money order as payment.

[imashooter2]

I have been considering doing this also but I have been a bit nervous about giving out my E-Bay user name and password to complete strangers. Even if these people are well meaning, and it looks as if they are just enterprising individuals who came up with a good money making idea, we have no idea of how good their security is or how honest everyone directly involved is. A hacker could easily steal this info if the site's security is lax (how much were they willing to spend on security?) and dishonest individuals or even pranksters could wreak havoc with an E-Bay account, if that happened through a site that is independent of E-Bay what would be our recourse? Still snipping is getting harder to do all the time and I imagine it's due to programs such as this.


BTW, to those who think snipping is unfair E-Bay itself actually ENCOURAGES the practice and indeed not long ago they even took steps to make doing so easier by moving the countdown clock to the confirmation page. Check out snipping at E-Bays Q/A or FAQ sections.

Your concern is legitimate. We all have to decide for ourselves what our risk tolerance will be.

[farmallcrew]

Where in the E-Bay rules does it say a buyer is REQUIRED to use Paypal??????

Come on show us where it's a violation!

OLDRED, you made me almost choke on my scrapple. lol!!!

I have been ebaying since 1997.I have had my fair share of knuckle heads. Some people on there are complete loons. Contacted ebay on several occasions, sometimes they sided the correct way, and sometimes they sided with me being the seller, empty handed and no money. So hence all the disclaimers on ebay auctions.

But i know, say you have the winning bid as of right now, and you increase your max bid. Your bid will stay the same, and the bid count will go up by 1.

[oldred]

Took two seconds to find: http://pages.ebay.com/help/pay/methods.html

They really don't want you paying w/ checks or money orders. It even states they aren't allowed for most purchases. The category that Lyman tool was under was most likely not one that is authorized to offer a money order payment option.

Here is some more reading: http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/accepted-payments-policy.html

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/accepted-payments-policy.html#categories

While a poster went about it the wrong way and sounded like he was trying to pick a fight. You did violate their rules by sending a money order as payment.

The money order may have been out of order (pun intended! :mrgreen:) but Paypal is NOT a requirement, there are many advantages to doing so (and some disadvantages in some people's opinions) and E-Bay certainly encourages it but it is not a requirement as the poster so rudely tried to point out.

[oldred]

Your concern is legitimate. We all have to decide for ourselves what our risk tolerance will be.



This is even worse than I thought! The discussion got me to thinking about this since something like E-snipe would help me immensely so I just called an acquaintance of mine who is an IT tech for a medical supply company here in TN, he has nothing to do with E-Bay or E-snipe or any thing related to these outfits but he is well versed in computer systems, servers, ect and I became acquainted with him from repairing antique tractor parts for him. When I asked him about the wisdom of using that site he said he would check it out and get back to me in a couple of days, that was just a couple of hours ago and I just got off the phone with him again already. He said, and this is only his opinion but he is paid to know these kinds of things, that kind of site could be extremely risky and is an open invitation for trouble! He reminded me that E-Bay, one of the very largest internet based corporations has the best security that money can buy and is constantly on the watch for cyber attacks yet just in the last week or so they were hacked in spite of this massive security for just the information that site asks a person to provide to them! Hackers spent the resources required to attack this massive corporation and get past their high tech security and stole passwords and user names, highly unlikely that a small relatively new company using a third party server would have anywhere near the security of an outfit like E-Bay. Those sites are probably not yet on the hacker's radars due to the limited information they have on hand so they have not been bothered, YET, but as they grow that could change at any time and once they have that info they could do some serious damage.

I'm not sure what all a thief could do with a person's account info but apparently it's worth the trouble and resources to hack into E-Bay and E-Bay took it extremely seriously! Just handing out that sort of info to a relatively unknown outfit that may be working from a small office of even a home is just too risky for me, YMMV, considering what a large list of those passwords and user names could be worth can we trust this company's employees?

The idea is sound and I have little doubt these people are on the level and mean well, I hope they get filthy rich from their idea as long as they stay honest and make every effort to protect their clients, but for me at least after talking with this fellow I am going to have to take a pass on it at least until/unless it becomes more mainstream and better protected. You would almost certainly be responsible for anything that's done with your account info if you willingly pass out that info to someone else, not telling anyone to stay away from these services but from what I have learned this morning I thought it might be a good idea to pass along something to at least consider before handing out vital personal information to a stranger on the internet no matter how well their intentions may (or possibly may not) be.

Just my 2 cents worth and I am not trying to argue with anyone, to each his own.

[imashooter2]

If they were to hack into my sniping site, they could steal my eBay password. With my eBay password they could screw with my account, but nothing that would cost me money as I have no credit card on file with eBay and my PayPal is a different password and not associated with the sniping site.

There are risks, but they are pretty minimal as far as I am concerned.

[xacex]

What happened to sniping the old fashioned way? I still win many auctions blasting my max bid the last 20 seconds without a program.

[oldred]

If they were to hack into my sniping site, they could steal my eBay password. With my eBay password they could screw with my account, but nothing that would cost me money as I have no credit card on file with eBay and my PayPal is a different password and not associated with the sniping site.

There are risks, but they are pretty minimal as far as I am concerned.


As was pointed out to me E-Bay takes security very seriously and devotes huge amounts of money and resources to it in order to guarantee their members safety, they are highly unlikely to have any sympathy for anyone who gets into trouble by handing out their personal info to strangers. You are correct that the E-Bay user name and password would not allow anyone to access your PayPal account or other PayPal info but that does not mean you would be safe, it's almost a certainty you would be held responsible for any transactions done using your security information and I seriously doubt if E-Bay would stand behind you if that information was stolen from a third party. I honestly think the risks are far from minimal and that a hacker could cause serious problems if they become armed with that information, just think what even a prankster could do with it!


Again, my intent is not to argue but rather to discuss the pros/cons of doing this because I was seriously thinking about doing it myself until after that discussion with the IT tech, it really is something to consider and if the risks were indeed minimal I don't think the hackers would have spent the resources to breech E-Bay's security, they wanted that info pretty badly so I personally am not about to hand it out to a stranger on the internet who very well (highly likely) has security of questionable quality.

[oldred]

What happened to sniping the old fashioned way? I still win many auctions blasting my max bid the last 20 seconds without a program.

I have done the same and for the time being probably will continue to do it that way but the sad fact is we can't beat those sniping programs no matter how fast we are. It's tempting for sure but when one considers what a stranger could do with that user name and password I just can't bring myself to willingly give it out!

[Bad Water Bill]

Well I did change my stuff as suggested for evil bay.

Yes i DID have a pay pal account years ago BUT the credit card died when I closed out that bank account.

Not sure if I could even get in now to change anything on pay pal if I tried.

[oldred]

I guess I'm one of the few who actually likes PayPal, I like it because it has been very convenient for me and has worked extremely well -so far! I understand others' reservations and gripes about PayPal, I guess I have just been lucky so far.

[imashooter2]

As was pointed out to me E-Bay takes security very seriously and devotes huge amounts of money and resources to it in order to guarantee their members safety, they are highly unlikely to have any sympathy for anyone who gets into trouble by handing out their personal info to strangers. You are correct that the E-Bay user name and password would not allow anyone to access your PayPal account or other PayPal info but that does not mean you would be safe, it's almost a certainty you would be held responsible for any transactions done using your security information and I seriously doubt if E-Bay would stand behind you if that information was stolen from a third party. I honestly think the risks are far from minimal and that a hacker could cause serious problems if they become armed with that information, just think what even a prankster could do with it!


Again, my intent is not to argue but rather to discuss the pros/cons of doing this because I was seriously thinking about doing it myself until after that discussion with the IT tech, it really is something to consider and if the risks were indeed minimal I don't think the hackers would have spent the resources to breech E-Bay's security, they wanted that info pretty badly so I personally am not about to hand it out to a stranger on the internet who very well (highly likely) has security of questionable quality.


We aren't arguing, we are discussing the safety risks. All good. :)

If someone hacks my sniping account and gets my eBay password, they can log in as me, they can change the password so I can't log in, and they can bid crazy amounts on all sorts of auctions that I have zero interest in. What they can't do without my PayPal password
is take one American cent. Now eBay might ask me to pay for those auctions. I would politely decline. They may go to PayPal and steal the $20 that I keep in the linked bank account, but they can't make unauthorized charges on my linked credit card. The credit card company protects me from that. Heck, the poor sellers that get caught in the middle can't even give me negative feedback.

My total risk exposure as I see it, is having to deal with eBay to get my account fixed and $20 in the PayPal linked bank account that eBay might steal if they wanted to lose a customer over obvious fraud. I also view the probability of getting my password stolen and used fraudulently as fairly remote.

So from my viewpoint, it is a low probability of minor consequences weighed against the convenience. It's kind of like driving a car. I can certainly avoid the possibility of death or serious injury from a car wreck if I stop traveling by car. But the convenience outweighs the risk.

[leadman]

My account was old enough that for many years I could take payment other than PayPal. About a month or so ago I got a letter from EBay saying the only payment method is now PayPal. When I tried to list in the ad that I would take a money order it would not let me list the item until I removed this.

I do not like PayPal's methods and requirements but it does provide a level of security for the seller and buyer.

[oldred]

My account was old enough that for many years I could take payment other than PayPal. About a month or so ago I got a letter from EBay saying the only payment method is now PayPal. When I tried to list in the ad that I would take a money order it would not let me list the item until I removed this.

I do not like PayPal's methods and requirements but it does provide a level of security for the seller and buyer.

From E-Bay's information site, besides PayPal they list several other methods of payment.

"Choosing a payment method (for buyers)

PayPal
Bill Me Later
Credit cards and debit cards
Skrill
ProPay
Pay upon pickup
Escrow
Other payment methods"





This is what they have under "other payment methods",

Checks, money orders, and bank wire transfers aren't allowed for most eBay purchases.

But sellers can offer these payment methods for certain items in some categories, including Motors, Capital and Business Equipment, Real Estate, and Adult Only.

For more on exceptions, see the accepted payments policy"

PayPal is not REQUIRED and even money orders can be used under certain exceptions but usually not allowed on most transactions.

[opos]

If they were to hack into my sniping site, they could steal my eBay password. With my eBay password they could screw with my account, but nothing that would cost me money as I have no credit card on file with eBay and my PayPal is a different password and not associated with the sniping site.

There are risks, but they are pretty minimal as far as I am concerned.

Amen to that...the paypal (money part) and the Ebay part are 2 seperate items and in my case (and as suggested) both have different passwords...the sniping programs do not want and have no desire to have the paypal information...just the ebay password so the bids will be properly credited....If someone decides to bid on something that is not mine and use my e bay info...so be it...I won't pay...and it will be up to e bay to work it out...I been doing the ebay/esnipe thing for years and never once had any issues with any of it...Some auctions I win and some I lose...e snipe lets me decide before the "fray" of last minute bidding what something is worth to me and I don't chase the last minute bids...ever. I have bought and sold a ton of antique engine and tractor parts using e snipe...lots of old time engine folks think it is unfair...sorry about that.

As to security...Paypal is, according to my bank, one of the most dangerous sites as far as identity theft is concerned..they suggest (and I do have) a small checking account just for paypal if you plan to use paypal...it that account get's "hit" in my case they got about $400 maximum before the account is max'd out and the payment is refused....When you pull up the page to pay for an item there is a link to "other payment methods" and it's there for every one of the items I've ever bid on....it allows you to substitute a credit card payment for paypal..always been there...if it's some little tiny item I let it go on paypal but if anything of substance it's on the card and I got recourse with the credit card company if things are not right. If a person's tolerance level is so low that they are losing sleep over any of this...go to Walmart and pay cash for everything...problem solved.

[opos]

We aren't arguing, we are discussing the safety risks. All good. :)

If someone hacks my sniping account and gets my eBay password, they can log in as me, they can change the password so I can't log in, and they can bid crazy amounts on all sorts of auctions that I have zero interest in. What they can't do without my PayPal password
is take one American cent. Now eBay might ask me to pay for those auctions. I would politely decline. They may go to PayPal and steal the $20 that I keep in the linked bank account, but they can't make unauthorized charges on my linked credit card. The credit card company protects me from that. Heck, the poor sellers that get caught in the middle can't even give me negative feedback.

My total risk exposure as I see it, is having to deal with eBay to get my account fixed and $20 in the PayPal linked bank account that eBay might steal if they wanted to lose a customer over obvious fraud. I also view the probability of getting my password stolen and used fraudulently as fairly remote.

So from my viewpoint, it is a low probability of minor consequences weighed against the convenience. It's kind of like driving a car. I can certainly avoid the possibility of death or serious injury from a car wreck if I stop traveling by car. But the convenience outweighs the risk.


I think that unless a hacker can intercept and use your e mail they cannot change anything...If they have your e mail address and are capable of intercepting and controlling your e mail address you are far enough in trouble to never catch up.

I do know that it's really a problem if you use the same password for numerous sites you access...regardless....I go to about 5 firearms related sites...none have any monitary connection but each has a separate and distinct password...and those change about every 6 months...I have a buddy that has several stock brokerage accounts and he uses the same password for each of them and that same password for e bay and other web sites..he's the kind that's gonna get murdered some day..if they get one account data and can cross over to his other account choices it's game on for the hacker....I use nothing but 6 to 8 digit minimum...mixed caps and lower case....no personal info as part of the password...and random numerals..the hackers have to work to get the information...I don't bank on line except a tiny special pay pal checking account and it's not in my "full name" as far as the signature card is concerned.