Unacceptable accuracy question

[Hannibal]

I have a Savage model 10 .308 that I bought new roughly 3 years ago. The first time I sighted it in, in seemed the group size was excessive. I did not get concerned at the time as it was a new firearm. It has been fired only occasionally since. A couple of months ago, I decided to get serious about the accuracy problem. A 10 round group started out, and remains, around 3 1/4 MOA at 100 yds. This is with factory j-word ammunition. 4 major manufacturers, same overall results. Correction attempts include replacement of the scope and rings with quality pieces (Leupold and Millet), glass bedding of the stock, and of course inspection for loose hardware/barrel to stock contact. Accuracy has remained unchanged. I noticed this evening that with the bolt closed on an empty chamber that the bolt can rather easily be moved forward & backward .012" as measured with feeler gauges. NONE of my other bolt-action firearms display more than .001" using the same measurement technique, and 1 of them is 94 years old and has had untold thousands of rounds thru it. So, my question is, is this an adjustable tolerance, or something that will require a receiver/bolt repair. I'd LOVE to shoot cast thru this rifle. But I don't dare try that road with a rifle that won't shoot factory j-words decently.

[joesig]

I'm not too familiar with the Savage. Is this bolt pulled to the rear when cocked? (pulled back by firing pin spring) I would expect yes and I believe Ruger is like that. I would be curious to know if you measured the cases to check the headspace. If that checks okay I wouldn't be concerned.

Regarding accuracy, how is the crown?

[TheCelt]

I replaced a stock on a Savage 116 and the improvement was breathtaking

[Hannibal]

Regarding accuracy, how is the crown?

If it's damaged, I'm not able to detect it with a loupe.

[Jr.]

I replaced a stock on a Savage 116 and the improvement was breathtaking

+1 on this the savage actions are very reliable I love them. However their mold injection stocks are junk. I replaced the stock on my 110 ( which didn't shoot terrible) and it cut the group size in half. And on my wife's axis from 4 inch groups to just over an inch at 100 huge difference.

[BruceB]

My .338 Model 116 is still in its original plastic-wonder dock.
I don't think I could STAND IT if I replaced the stock and its accuracy improved.

You see, with NO work of any kind, the rifle delivers 225 Barnes TSX bullets into three-shot groups of UNDER 3/4" from 100 yards.... consistently.

Gents, that will suffice for me, and I'm a happy shooter....

[TheCelt]

My .338 Model 116 is still in its original plastic-wonder dock.
I don't think I could STAND IT if I replaced the stock and its accuracy improved.

You see, with NO work of any kind, the rifle delivers 225 Barnes TSX bullets into three-shot groups of UNDER 3/4" from 100 yards.... consistently.

Gents, that will suffice for me, and I'm a happy shooter....

That's typical Savage performance!! What's your barrel length Bruce? My 338WM 116 is an old flatback Alaskan and is SS. the stock was a *** but it did shoot 1.5 MOA with 250gr Nosler Partitions. Shoots a cloverleaf with a B&C stock with aluminum bed/rail.

[Hannibal]

I'm happy for you gents. I was hoping for similar results. The .243 I own is a great shooter. This .308 is the worst-grouping gun I have ever owned. However, rather than get rid of it or send it to an accurizer, I have decided to take the hard road and attempt to correct the problem myself. My goal at the end of this quest is to better understand the factors between a mediocre rifle and a 1MOA/100yd rifle, reguardless of manufacturer.
Yes, the composite (plastic) stock leaves much to be desired. I believe the bedding job to be sufficient to allow the rifle to at least approach 1MOA, and its a long way from that yet.

[HeavyMetal]

I'm thinking you have a mechanical issue, but it's tough to tell for sure over the net, LOL!

What I do know is Savage mounts the barrel to the action using a proprietary head spacing gauge, they install the barrel losely, insert head space gauge, turn the barrel in until "tight" on the gauge, torque down the lock nut and ship it to the next station for the next assymbly step.

My thought is you got one somebody missed and I would make a call to Savage and ask if they have a local warranty station.

When they get done laughing ask them for a shipping label and send the gun back for warranty work, that much bolt movement is unacceptable.

Only try to repair a problem like this after you've exhausted the factories ability to put up with you!

[Larry Gibson]

How does the crown look?

Larry Gibson

[375RUGER]

Look at your bench technique. That plastic stock, if like the one on my son's rifle, flexes and is sensitive to pressure. It's a shooter if rested on the bags as if they were eggs.

[Hannibal]

How does the crown look?

Larry Gibson

If there is any crown damage, I am unable to detect it with a loupe.

[Hannibal]

I'm thinking you have a mechanical issue, but it's tough to tell for sure over the net, LOL!

What I do know is Savage mounts the barrel to the action using a proprietary head spacing gauge, they install the barrel losely, insert head space gauge, turn the barrel in until "tight" on the gauge, torque down the lock nut and ship it to the next station for the next assymbly step.

My thought is you got one somebody missed and I would make a call to Savage and ask if they have a local warranty station.

When they get done laughing ask them for a shipping label and send the gun back for warranty work, that much bolt movement is unacceptable.

Only try to repair a problem like this after you've exhausted the factories ability to put up with you!

I suspect it is a head spacing issue as well, but this is my first time looking at a problem like this.

[Hannibal]

Look at your bench technique. That plastic stock, if like the one on my son's rifle, flexes and is sensitive to pressure. It's a shooter if rested on the bags as if they were eggs.

I've tried various approaches to this possibility as well. None make any appreciable difference.

[C.F.Plinker]

If it's a headspace problem would the shoulder move forward upon firing? Could this be easily measured without a case-mic? I agree that the manufacturer should be given a chance to put it right.

[44man]

Head space is not to much of a problem if shoulders are not set back.
I had the same problem with an early Rem with the plastic stock. Thing would flex and bang the barrel. I routed out the forearm and steel bedded a 3/8" stainless aircraft tube in it. Cured that problem fast.

[243winxb]

with the bolt closed on an empty chamber that the bolt can rather easily be moved forward & backward .012" as measured with feeler gauges. When chambering a round, the shoulder may be getting pushed back, causing excessive cartridge slop in the chamber. Not good for accuracy if this is happening. I seem to remember reading in Hatchers Notebook about this in a military rifle. http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/ClassicWorks/Hatchers%20Notebook.pdf

[tomme boy]

It is not actually moving. The bolt head is floating. the head is up against the lugs, the body of the bolt is what is moving.

If it really is as bad as you say it is, call Savage for a call tag and send it back. They will fix it. They do not want to hear anything like this out of their rifles.

[Larry Gibson]

If the crown is good then I'll have to go with the next possible issue and agree with 44man on the stock. If the action does not fit the bedding correctly they can really flex.

One last idea is to slug the bore, it may be over size or have other problems.

Larry Gibson

[2ndAmendmentNut]

My opinion. Sell the rifle. It sounds like you have already taken reasonable steps to sight in the rifle. Savages are not rare or special. The 308 is also very common. Nine out ten 308 rifles should shoot within 2" at 100 yards. Life is to short.

[Harter66]

I have this 110 06'. Bed ,crown ,check check........blah.
Turns out it needed hand loads and to be held to 2700 w,150s and wiegh matched cases because its fussy. But I didn't discover all that until I shot up the last 80 of a 150 rd lot to discover 3 3'' groups 12'' apart that matched up w/the case weights.

I probably shot $100 worth through it when 06' was $9. Heavy light no groups. LC43 showed me what it needed...... after I got cranky and shot it all in 1 setting.

[Hannibal]

My opinion. Sell the rifle. It sounds like you have already taken reasonable steps to sight in the rifle. Savages are not rare or special. The 308 is also very common. Nine out ten 308 rifles should shoot within 2" at 100 yards. Life is to short.

That would certainly be the easiest for me. But I'll never learn anything that way. And i have this unusual mental condition called a conscience. I don't like to sell things that I know have problems without disclosing them, and who knowingly buys a 3+" MOA rifle?

[2ndAmendmentNut]

I have very limited experience with Savage bolt action rifles, but what limited experience I do have is that the Savage bolt actions aren't all that accurate. So if I or anyone else experienced with Savage wanted to buy your rifle we would already be expecting less than stellar accuracy. In all honesty most "hunters" and "gun owners" are not that great a marksman and likely wouldn't even notice or know what a 3MOA rifle meant. Also 3MOA can still put meat in the freezer so my conscience wouldn't bother me as long as the selling price was fair.

[joesig]

That would certainly be the easiest for me. But I'll never learn anything that way. And i have this unusual mental condition called a conscience. I don't like to sell things that I know have problems without disclosing them, and who knowingly buys a 3+" MOA rifle?
Someone who wants the action for another project or likes a challenge themselves.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Only try to repair a problem like this after you've exhausted the factories ability to put up with you!

Personally if the rifle was mine this is what I would do. Let the factory try to make it right and if they can't get 2MOA out of it at least they will guarantee it is a safe and functioning rifle. Then I would move onto something else. You could easily spend a lot of time and money and eventually find a solution that will cut the groups in half, but the end result will be a 308 that shoots about the same as almost any other 308 off the rack.

[Hannibal]

Personally if the rifle was mine this is what I would do. Let the factory try to make it right and if they can't get 2MOA out of it at least they will guarantee it is a safe and functioning rifle. Then I would move onto something else. You could easily spend a lot of time and money and eventually find a solution that will cut the groups in half, but the end result will be a 308 that shoots about the same as almost any other 308 off the rack.

That is certainly a reasonable opinion. I've spent the majority of my adult life troubleshooting machinery and fixing the problems I find. My track record isn't perfect, but it's pretty good. If I reveal anything that is questionable in reguards to safety, then of course that's the end of this persuit. However, up until that time, I plan to continue looking into this problem. No, its not the easy, fast or cheapest course. But it's the one I'll learn the most from.

Besides, if I wasn't working on this, I'd be looking for something else to fix. It's just what I do.

[Whitespider]

I have very limited experience with Savage bolt action rifles, but what limited experience I do have is that the Savage bolt actions aren't all that accurate.

I've shot many Savage bolt guns, and every one would put ten rounds in 1½ MOA, or better, with near any generic load... they may not shoot like a laser pointer, but they certainly ain't no slouch neither.
I have a .223 Savage bolt sporter (plastic stock, pencil-sized barrel) that shoots just a bit over an inch with run-of-the-mill 55 grain factory loads... my refined prairie dog load easily keeps 'em all well inside an inch, and I've never done anything to it except load it. I've seen many Savage bolt guns sitting on dog towns... they are actually well respected by those who shoot tiny targets way-out-yonder. (shrug) One of the big plus-points is the ease of replacing a shot-out barrel (which ain't all that uncommon on a dog rifle that gets used hot-'n'-heavy)... all that's needed is the barrel nut wrench and a headspace gauge.

The fact is, some barrels just flat won't do much better than three inches, no matter who the manufacturer and no matter how much "accurizing" is done to the rifle... it-is-what-it-is. Three inches is still a darn good meat-getter for hunting deer in the woods, brush and such. Heck, it's still a darn good home self-protection piece. But if you're wantin' a tack-driver, I wouldn't screw 'round with a gun that starts out at something over 3 inches; 'cause even if ya' make it "better", it'll likely still never drive tacks... it-is-what-it-is.

[Whitespider]

The .243 I own is a great shooter. This .308 is the worst-grouping gun I have ever owned.

If it's possible, have you thought about swapping the stocks between your .243 and this .308 just to see what happens??

[John Boy]

Seat the bullet depth so the bullet is lightly engraved by the leading bore cuts. Will present the bullt to the bore axis. If this fails to increase accuracy - sell the rifle

[jsizemore]

You can check for a burr at the muzzle with a cotton swab. If you see strands you got burrs. If you suspect excessive headspace, then chamber a fired case and check your axial play. That will tell you if it's the 2 piece bolt. If you neck size only your brass that was fired in this chamber then headspace is not an issue. Changing the headspace on a model 10 can be done by any competent smith with the proper tools. My model 10FP was very snug on factory ammo. I found the plastic stock to be not conducive to accuracy when used with a bipod. When a front rest bag was under the chamber it was at it's best. I did a full stock marine-tex bedding job with a piece of 1/2" aluminum angle in the barrel channel with the junction pointing down in the stock. The stosk then behaved with a bipod. If none of this points to your problem, send me a PM.

[NVScouter]

I had a model 10 .308 tactical with McMillan stock that was about 2.5MOA at best. I tried it all shorten barrel recrown lap etc. Got a new barrel it became a .33MOA rifle.

[Hannibal]

I'll have access to go/no go gauges after the holiday. I won't know what to try next until I see the results of that test.

[detox]

Lots of variables and not enough information

Is barrel free floated from factory? Vertical stringing when barrel heats up is a sure sign barrel needs to be free floated (remove raised pressure point in barrel channel). I hear head space is easy to adjust on Savages...adjust using GO gauge. Aren't all Savage barrels button rifled? Savage target rifles (free floated heavy barrel) are normally pretty accurate...is your barrel fowled with copper?

[Hannibal]

If it's possible, have you thought about swapping the stocks between your .243 and this .308 just to see what happens??

Not possible. .243 is older model, spacing of action screws not the same.
.308 stock has been bedded, and it made no discernable difference.

[fourarmed]

Maybe you tried this. Take some hard, thin cardboard like comes on blister packs and wedge several layers between the tip of the forend and the barrel. Make sure the thickness is enough that it puts pretty hard pressure on the barrel. (Some of those stocks are pretty limp.) Use a big target, cause it will raise the POI. If that doesn't help, loosen the action screws and put enough of the cardboard between the front receiver ring and the stock to make sure it is free floating. If neither of those make any difference, it is probably not the stock.

[Hannibal]

Maybe you tried this. Take some hard, thin cardboard like comes on blister packs and wedge several layers between the tip of the forend and the barrel. Make sure the thickness is enough that it puts pretty hard pressure on the barrel. (Some of those stocks are pretty limp.) Use a big target, cause it will raise the POI. If that doesn't help, loosen the action screws and put enough of the cardboard between the front receiver ring and the stock to make sure it is free floating. If neither of those make any difference, it is probably not the stock.

Great idea! A trip to the gunsmith proved that the headspace is correct. Movement I am seeing is strictly within the bolt itself and only with the firing pin relaxed. I've been at a loss as to what to try next without resorting to buying parts, replacing them, and testing for improvement. A desperate and likely expensive approach. I plan to test the preloaded tip idea first thing tomorrow.

[44man]

The thing to remember when you bed an action is to not make the recoil lug tight. I use a very thick electrical tape to tape the front, bottom and sides of the lug so they have space, just the rear should have a good fit. I use steel bed at the lug and regular bedding for the rest. All applied at the same time.
I tape the barrel with double or triple layers where I don't want bedding to float the barrel. Bedding in the forearm will stiffen it good.
Some of the first, old plastic stocks were like rubber. New ones have come a long way and are just fugly. I still love wood. Bedding in new rifles is much improved. Seen old factory bedding that looked like silicon caulk.
Rare to see a Savage that won't shoot. Had one here that had the barrel in crooked so it could not be sighted, 30-06. I shot it and got 1" at 100 all the time so I shimmed the scope. The fellow only hunted to 100 yards so was happy, still shot an inch or less with his factory loads.

[Hannibal]

Well, pressure point bedding made no discernable difference, either. I'm beginning to think something is wrong with the barrel itself. Anybody know of a clever method to check for a chamber/barrel machining problem?

[Hannibal]

Think I may have finally found my answer. Starting another thread on barrel slugging and what to expect.
Slugged the barrel with fishing sinkers and it measures .001 larger on the muzzle end than on the chamber end.

[wrench man]

Seems guys used to bash Ruger's this way??, I have two Savage 110's that shoot like ****!, my 110 270 after three scopes, recrown, Timney trigger, glass bedding and untold round count (I bought it brand new) absolutely! REFUSES!! to shoot ANY! 130grn bullet! into less than a 3" pattern, and that's down from 6" patterns!?, however it'll put Nosler 150grn Partition's less than an inch??
The second is a 110 in 243, so far I've only put factory Winchester 100grn ammo down the tube?, but it also shoots 3" patterns??, and yes I can shoot, I promptly put away the 243 and got out my Marlin 375 and shot a 1 1/2 group with it!, and everyone knows that lever guns don't shoot worth beans!??
These two rifles really make me scratch my chin about the Savage 110? and the 270WCF and 243 Win??
The only reason I don't hate Savage rifles is that I also have a 10F in 22-250, with the skinny barrel and Tupperware stock it would put 20 rnds of factory Winchester white box 45grn HP that you could cover with a dime!, but it refused to shoot 55grn bullets!??, the light weight of this rifle pizzed me off at the bench!, so I turned it into a 12V with a take off 26" fluted bull barrel and put it in a Boyds VTH stock, it weighs in at just over 12# now, MUCH! better to shoot! and it still puts the WWB in TINY little holes!, until my eyes get tired from the 18X scope.

Try a fair deviation from the weight of bullet you were shooting and see what happens??

[Hannibal]

Bashing? I'm asking for help with an accuracy issue. And if you read the start of the thread you would see that several types/weights of factory ammo have been tried.
Bashing? No, I think not.

[country gent]

Sometimes finding the combination to make a rifle perform can be alot of trial and error. A bore scope would be handy to get a really good look in the barrel at the throat lead angle area. The .001 larger muzzle dia isnt helping any for sure barrel tension can be experimented with as stated with card shims between forend and barrel. Another thing is to vary the placement a 1" testing from forend tip to about 4" back from it. You may find the harmonics node that makes it shoot. How is the trigger on this rifle good clean and crisp like a glass rod breaking or grity creepy heavy like pulling a rubber ball over coarse sand paper? Check lug bearing in the reciever with scraping blue or ink. Lightly coat both lugs backs and close bolt open and remove bolt look at surfaces cor contact. It should be even and equal from one side to the other. Make sure the ejector isnt putting undo pressure on the loaded round or the extractor isnt binding on some rilms. Check case fit to chamber. Also check a fired case from this rifle fit in the camber and then turn 45* thro a full rotation, this will give an ideaif the chamber is round. Tension on the barrel nut? Bearing in the stock of diffrent areas and clearence where needed. A trigger group or magazine box bearing can screw up accuracy also. Bedding it up on pillars can take alot of stock issues away. A full reciever bedding job and testing is going to show alot.

[Love Life]

Have you tried Federal Gold Medal Match? If it won't shoot with that then it is time to sell that bad boy off or rebarrel it...and a rebarrel may not fix what may be wrong with it.

I don't see the wisdom of dropping more money into a rifle that can easily be replaced for the cost of the "Fixes" to make it shoot.

[MBTcustom]

I'm coming in late, and I'm going to hunt down your barrel slugging thread next, but I guarantee the barrel is to blame. If you have a good barrel, a good crown, and the headspace is correct, there is just not much you can do to blow the groups out past 2".
They don't call it a rifle for nothing. The barrel is more important than all the junk we strap all over it. Get it right, and it will shoot.

[MtGun44]

Call Savage and see if they will fix it. My bet is they will.

Bill

[Hannibal]

As everyone seems to agree that a rifle barrel with these bore dimentions is very likely to give poor results, I plan to contact Savage Monday and explain the situation. I'll update the thread once they have responded. Thanks for all the replies/input so far.

[Hannibal]

Update : Savage has agreed to look at the rifle. UPS to pick-up in the next 2 days.

[Hannibal]

Update : The rifle arrived at Savage today and is already on it's way back to me according to UPS tracking. I'm not sure if that's good or bad. I guess I'll have to wait another week to find out. [smilie=6:

[TheCelt]

Update : The rifle arrived at Savage today and is already on it's way back to me according to UPS tracking. I'm not sure if that's good or bad. I guess I'll have to wait another week to find out. [smilie=6:

Doesn't take 10 minutes to change a Savage barrel and set the headspace, sounds like GREAT customer service to me!!

[Hannibal]

That's what I'm hoping for. I ain't looking for anything extra. But I DO want something done about that barrel.

[HeavyMetal]

I'm glad you sent it back to Savage now I can't wait to see what they did and if it performs better.

Looking forward to your updating us when it arrives

[Hannibal]

Update : I misunderstood the tracking information. Savage still has the rifle, but in response to my latest inquery I have been told they are replacing the barrel. Apparently, they have some sort of revolving 2 week shut down period in the summer, so no one will be in the finishing department until 7/28. :groner:
Ah, well. At least it appears they are going to take care of it.

[Mk42gunner]

At least they are going to take care of it for you.

Maybe they figured if you waited three years to send it in, two more weeks wouldn't matter.:kidding:

The .338 116 that I had shot a lot more like Bruceb's than your .308, and the wood stocked .22-250 shot thumbnail sized groups. The 110FP I had would hit pop cans and fist sized rocks with boring regularity using plain old M-80 Ball, for as long as you wanted to stay in the sling.

Hopefully yours will shoot like that when you get it back.

Robert

[triggerhappy243]

If you asked me, I would sell the rifle. any bolt rifle of good quality should be able to shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yards..... off the rack...... providing you do not get the barrel hot.(3 to 5 shot group). a 3.25 inch group sounds to me there is more than 1 issue with your rifle. I am an accuracy nut. and I know where I start and stop with an "off the rack rifle". how much factory ammo do you want to waste.... trying to find out what is wrong with the rifle?

I notice you mention you shoot a 10 round group. is this a sporter weight barrel or a heavy contour?

[Hannibal]

Sporter weight. During the summer months, it can take as long as an hour per group. Fans are also involved. My summer bench is right outside the garage door. If you read the entire post, this is as much about learning what is the root cause as it is about fixing it. Many have advised me to give up already. I plan to see this through. Foolish? Some say yes. I say I'm learning something. We're all correct, most likely. 8-)
AND in my opinion, a 3-round group is merely a guesstimate, at best. Nor have I found firing rounds under controlled and observed circumstances to ever be a "waste of time." But what do I know?

[triggerhappy243]

I have 2 sporter weight rifles. 30-06 and a 243. I shoot 5 shot groups and then put it away to totally cool. much past that 5th shot my groups grow. that is why i asked. there may be potential... it is not my rifle and i have not tried shooting the 10 shot groups. but i do know after shot #5 you can not hold onto the barrel very long bare handed. hope you can fix what is wrong.

[mpmarty]

Let someone else shoot it. Ya might be surprised.

[dakotashooter2]

Update : I misunderstood the tracking information. Savage still has the rifle, but in response to my latest inquery I have been told they are replacing the barrel. Apparently, they have some sort of revolving 2 week shut down period in the summer, so no one will be in the finishing department until 7/28. :groner:
Ah, well. At lea
st it appears they are going to take care of it.

I'm willing to bet it's cheaper for them to just replace the barrel than spend a bunch of man hours trying to figure out the problem. Either way it works out in your favor. Savage still makes a fine working mans gun, not always fancy but generally accurate enough to get the job done and at a reasonable price.

[Pilgrim]

What goodsteel said...As much as Savage rifles are sorta ugly (that barrel nut just bugs me!) their reputation is they are good grouping rifles. A number of years back I worried about factory barrels, but they have greatly improved their tolerances. The only exception to that that I'm personally aware of are some (not all) imports and I'm fighting with one of those right now. The folks that worry about shooting bug holes have a saying...accuracy factors are barrels, bedding, bullets, in that order. You can screw around with the bedding and bullets, but a bad barrel is hopeless and you can't fix that with bedding or reloads and I think you had one of those barrels. If your rifle shoots sorta OK, then fooling around with the bedding, reloads, etc makes sense. At least Savage is proud enough of their rifles to make sure bad barrels go into recycle bins. I wish Rossi felt that way......Pilgrim

[Treetop]

I have a Savage model 10 .308 that I bought new roughly 3 years ago. The first time I sighted it in, in seemed the group size was excessive. I did not get concerned at the time as it was a new firearm. It has been fired only occasionally since. A couple of months ago, I decided to get serious about the accuracy problem. A 10 round group started out, and remains, around 3 1/4 MOA at 100 yds. This is with factory j-word ammunition. 4 major manufacturers, same overall results. Correction attempts include replacement of the scope and rings with quality pieces (Leupold and Millet), glass bedding of the stock, and of course inspection for loose hardware/barrel to stock contact. Accuracy has remained unchanged. I noticed this evening that with the bolt closed on an empty chamber that the bolt can rather easily be moved forward & backward .012" as measured with feeler gauges. NONE of my other bolt-action firearms display more than .001" using the same measurement technique, and 1 of them is 94 years old and has had untold thousands of rounds thru it. So, my question is, is this an adjustable tolerance, or something that will require a receiver/bolt repair. I'd LOVE to shoot cast thru this rifle. But I don't dare try that road with a rifle that won't shoot factory j-words decently.

Expanman, I had a similar problem with my brand new Savage model 10. My first groups with J words were more like shotgun patterns! I tried different brands of .308 factory cartridges, handloads and cast boolits. Typical "groups" were anywhere between 4"-6" except with cast boolits, which were tumbling!

I had heard nothing but great things about the accuracy of these rifles and perhaps that's why I failed to do what you should do first with ANY rifle that you plan on shooting cast boolits in. Slug the bore! When I finally did, I couldn't believe how easily the pure lead slug went through the bore... I knew something was amiss...

Bore slugging results= .305 bore diameter X .308" groove diameter! IOW, my rifling was only .0015" deep per side!

This rifle had an integral muzzle break on it so I wasn't able to drop a bullet in the bore and visually check it.

Instead of sending it back to Savage, I ordered an Ed McGowan barrel in 1:12 twist for it. The McGowan barrel has never seen a J word and probably never will. I have now shot sub MOA groups out of this rifle with 3 different boolits! Almost every boolit I have shot was suitably accurate (<1 1/2"). I hope that this information helps you. Tt.

[leadman]

I know a gunsmith that used to work for a well known barrel maker and he said it is not unusual for a barrel bore to be larger on one end than the other. He hand lapped all the barrels and checked them. IIRC he said he marked the barrels as to which end to chamber. He also said that about an inch or so of the end the cutter comes out of is no good and has to be cut off. I bought a barrel from Numrich for a 93 Mauser in 7.62X39 that has this problem so I cut the barrel off.
I have a 1960s' era Savage 110CL in 30-06 that was a very particular shooter when I bought it used about 15 years ago or so. It has a wood stock and I bedded it and now it shoots most everything well and some loads exceptional.

I think Savage will make it right for you.

[Hannibal]

Conclusion : Nearly 11 weeks later, my rifle was returned to me without any advance contact from Savage. Paperwork included in the box indicated that they had replaced the barrel, refinished the metal, function fired, target tested and proof tested it. What I received is a barrel and receiver that are no longed blued but matte finished, and my (apparently) blued original bolt. A slug test shows that if the barrel has, in fact, been replaced, then they must have a mountain of defective barrels, because the dimensions are indentical to the barrel that I had before. Needless to say, the on-range performance has not improved in the least. Words cannot express my irritation at the 'service' I have received. And you can bet I have purchased the last Savage product I will ever own. Disgusting!

[triggerhappy243]

sorry to hear the disappointing news.

[TXGunNut]

Sorry the first trip back to Savage, I'd call and calmly ask to discuss the matter with someone who can resolve it or simply ask for another call tag. I don't think this rifle meets Savage's standards, we know it doesn't meet yours. I had to send a rifle back to Winchester twice but I now have a rifle that works like it ought to.

[MtGun44]

Send it back. They used to know how to make an accurate rifle, I have several, all shoot very well,
so unless Remington has destroyed the company (possible), they should be able to fix it. Tell them
about the bore dimensions, too.

Bill

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Wow. I hate matte finishes. If I sent off a blued rifle and got back a matte one everyone at Savage would hear about it. I would keep sending it back until they got it shooting or gave me a brand new one. Then I would sell it.

[Hannibal]

Send it back. They used to know how to make an accurate rifle, I have several, all shoot very well,
so unless Remington has destroyed the company (possible), they should be able to fix it. Tell them
about the bore dimensions, too.

Bill

Remington? I've had nothing but trouble with THAT outfit for years. Care to elaborate?

[Harter66]

If you decide to dump it. ....I've got a new 7x57 bbl that needs a new home.

[Hannibal]

As irritating as it is, I have no other viable option but to appeal to Savage once again, which I have done. I am now 'patiently' awating their response.

[Hannibal]

If you decide to dump it. ....I've got a new 7x57 bbl that needs a new home.

With a matte barrel/receiver and blued bolt I have no desire to be seen in public with this :mad: ugly thing.

And it's reached the point where I'll likely keep it as evidence. No company that operates like this deserves to stay in business.

[birddog]

Send the rifle back to Savage and tell them that the rifle accuracy is unacceptable to your standards, they should give you an account number to send with the rifle and take it from there. If it has not been right from the start don't start pissing with.
Charlie
OK so I'm late on the response, but still take the time to take with service tech and ask for an explanation to their due process