A second chance with the 375 Whelen

[Bullshop]

A second chance to try the 375 Whelen with our 365gn custom boolit. Back in March my friend that runs the local slaughter house got a call to go out to dispatch a very large belligerent rouge bull bison. This was a big really big bull that had no respect for fences and was having his way with cows no matter how many fences where between him and them.
My friend and enterprising man sold the right to the shot to a fellow that flew in the NJ named Joe. Joe had never shot anything before so he really didn't know where to place the shot when it came. I supplied the armament and ammo and gave Joe his choice between my 1886 Win 50 2.1" or my Husky Mauser 375 Whelen. Joe chose the 1886 for his shot. He was confused about where to place the shot because I was telling him to shoot low in the chest and between the front legs no matter what the angle. The rancher was telling him to shoot low and behind the shoulder which Joe did. Problem was he took the shot when the bull was facing him so the shot ranged from about a foot behind the leg to the rear which was through the guts.
The half inch diameter boolit at 1750 fps made the bull sick enough that he didn't go anywhere but he was far from finished. We finally got Joe lined out and he made a good shot the finished the deed. That bull went over a ton live weight. I really wanted to test the 375 Whelen with my 365gn soft nose boolits but it was not to be.
Now the reason for this post. Yesterday my friend Paul got another call to go to another ranch to dispatch a very large belligerent Herford bull. Last week this big bad bull killed someone on the ranch that was foolish enough to get close to him without any way to kill the animal. It was a woman that I guess didn't know better. He worked her over pretty good before they got her out but she died a couple days later, sad!
One again I have been called upon to provide the armament and this time only the 375 Whelen is going. The will be no inexperienced shooter this time. Paul will make the shot with the 375 Whelen I traded him and I will be there to back him up with my 375 Whelen in hand. We will both be shooting the same ammo loaded with my 365gn LFN. The load is burning 57gn H4831 for about 2100 fps muzzle velocity. The cartridge can get a little more steam with this boolit but this load shoots good. The boolits we will be using are cast in an alloy that will quench harden to BHN-20 but they have 40gn of pur lead in the nose that will not harden.
I was very foolish when we did the bison and didn't bring a camera but I plan to take some pick of this one. Since Paul will do the butchering I hope to get some post mortem shots as well.
Gentlemen wish me well, and if all goes as planned this should reveal something of the cartridge I have much admiration for. If you don't hear from me by Wednesday evening I have probably become smooshed bull mire. This is gonna be fun!

[Frank46]

When I was a kid many moons ago my uncle had a dairy farm. used to keep a huge bull for stud. Well he crashed the fence and right about that time running became very popular. Frank

[xpaholic]

can't wait to see the pics. I have wanted to put a 375 whelen ackley together for some time now, I keep looking for someone selling or trading the dies but no luck so far. xp

[Bullshop]

I have been looking for dies for quite some time too. I have been loading ammo by partial neck sizing with a 375 Ruger die. When after a few shots the cases get a little tight chambering near the base I size them in a 444 Marlin die. It works but would be much nicer to have the right dies.
Checked my zero today, dead on at 100, perfect!!!
Paul plans on putting the first shot in the bulls head. If he does not drop instantly at the shot I am jumping in. I will be holding for the heart.
BTW Paul gave me a present from the bison bull, a perfectly classically mushroomed 50 caliber boolit. He recovered it when he butchered that beast. I do mean beast! His hooves were about the size of my head and his head was as big around as a 55 gallon drum.

[AlaskanGuy]

Wow... Sounds like fun....:popcorn:

[762 shooter]

I would buy a ticket.

762

[Bullshop]

Anxiously awaiting! Departure time is 8:00 AM tomorrow.

[Pilgrim]

Why go the Ackley route (unless for novelty)? The .375 case is damn near straight when formed. Dunno if there will be any significant cost increase for the Ackley dies, but I suspect so. I seriously doubt there will a significant difference in performance. Probably less than barrel to barrel variations IMO. Many discussions of too small a shoulder, etc, have taken place. Clearly Bullshop isn't having any problems, but you have to be VERY careful when loading this cartridge to not create headspace problems. The Ackley version may help this a smidgeon, but I don't know if that would be significant enough to incur the increased cost. FWIW...Pilgrim

[Bullshop]

I tried both. With the heavy boolits I shoot there was not much ballistic gain even in the Hawk/Scovill improved version and the standard shoulder feeds much more reliably.
I have the Hawk/Scovill reamer if someone wants to try it but in some rifles it gave feeding problems for me.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Bullshop: Is your chamber cut so as to allow the case to have the .458 dia shoulder? I'm sure you've read the article by Petrov on the .375 and .400 Whelen cartridges in the Gunsmithing section? If not I can post it again.

Huntington's can make, or probably has in stock, a correct sizing die for you.

Can't wait to hear about your experience with this critter, and the gun.

Randy

Here's a link to the thread,,, http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?236670-Thinking-on-a-400-Whelan-Improved

After reviewing this thread I see you took part in it, so you should already know about the correct chamber dimensions.

[jonp]

Ill be very interested on the report of the 375 performance and i hope you can find the boolit to post a picture of it

[Mk42gunner]

I tried both. With the heavy boolits I shoot there was not much ballistic gain even in the Hawk/Scovill improved version and the standard shoulder feeds much more reliably...


I am guessing here, but I believe that probably 90% of the people that build the medium bore and up rifles never use them on game that is actually big enough to need them.

One thing that I think a lot of target shooters forget is the need for these rifles to work 100% of the time. When you have put your first round into a large belligerent animal, good shot or not, is not the time you want to have to fiddle around getting the second round in the chamber.

Dan,

If your butcher friend can get close enough to place his shot, I don't think you are going to have to fire. On the other hand, I would rather the bull had a few extra holes in him than either of you two.

Frank,

My Dad always said there was nothing on a farm more dangerous than a dairy bull.

Robert

[Bullshop]

I think your right too but I will be ready to shoot in about .0000000001 of a second if that bull don't drop.
On a head shot you have to hit the brain to drop them. A near miss to the brain will stun them but they wont go down but will hold their footing. Paul knows where the brain is and I doubt he will miss it.
I went out with him to kill a big very old range cow. He asked if I would shoot it because all he had at the time sighted in was an iron sighted Ruger 44 mag auto. We didn't expect to be able to get closer than 50 yards if we could get that close. She was a very spooky old gal. I took my 221 fire ball with a box of ammo loaded with the 62gn Swede boolit at about 2000 fps. I had forgot that I had sighted it in for a lighter 55gn CBE boolit and found that it was shooting about 3" high.
My forst shot was aimed between the eye and ear hole but went just high enough to miss the brain.
At the shot she froze stiff but stood her feet. A second shot also aimed between the eye and ear hold had no additional effect. This used up about half a minute at which time she began to move forward slowly.
I was seeing the hits going high of my aiming point so on the third shot she turned her head toward me at a bit of an angle so I held about two inches below the eye and that did it. Through the eye and into the brain. At that shot she dropped instantly and stretched out all four legs quivered a bit and relaxed and it was over. This all took probably less than two minutes. Paul gave me THE LOOK as to say your supposed to do it with one shot. I should have checked my zero before we left but well I guess I know better next time. That is why I checked the 375 yesterday no room for error tomorrow.

[762 shooter]

GOOD luck.

762

[Bullshop]

Just got the word from Paul, CANCELED, BUMMER!!!
He said there was some family talk what ever that means at the funeral today. He will be acomanied by the ranch owner only and there will be no pictures. There seems to be a legal issue about the bull is supposed to already be dead.
I talked to Paul and he said he is still going to use his 375 Whelen and if he recovers a boolit it will be mine. He was bummed about it too but since he is hired to do this has to do what the customer wants. Sorry for the let down everyone.

[Mk42gunner]

Oh well. Here's hoping Paul makes a good first shot anyway.

Legal issues because the bull was supposed to already be dead? What did he kill or maim someone before this?

Sounds like something to stay well away from.

I had a thought after my first post, CH4D has a lot of wildcat caliber loading dies for around $84.00. Might be worth taking a look. I have been satisfied with their dies that I have, although they are probably 30-40 years old (I've had them for twenty years).

Robert

[NVScouter]

Yeah the Bull killed a lady.

So with 375 Whelen dies cant you just have a set of 30-06 dies run with a reamer? The same reamer used like benchrest guys do. Or is that more than custom dies? No neck taper crimp but a 375 factory crimp die would work.

[Bullshop]

You cant ream a hardened die it would have to be ground. The die would have to be reamed before hardening.
I did check with C&H and the dies are about $100.00 and 6 months wait.
Yes the bull killed a woman last week and is why it is being dispatched.

[AlaskanGuy]

Awwwwww Daniel Sr... Huge bummer... That would have been cool to see, but its even a bigger bummer for you....

Well, maybe you could get some work shooting them bison as they migrate out of the park up the yellowstone valley??? Used to be a bursolosis scare about them mingling range with cows so they dispatched them right there in gardner.... That would be a interesting place to test boolits.....

AG

[Bullshop]

Got a call from Paul today. When he got there he dropped the rifle getting out of his truck. He said he fired it to check zero and it was way off. He ended up shooting it in the head with a 270.
BUMMER!!!
Anyway he got a contract to process 600 bison from the park. The park service will dispatch them (bummer) and deliver them to his shop. He is supposed to grind every bit of it and the meat goes to native reservations. Some of the res home boys came in and wanted whole quarters but he cant do that. Its all going into burger.