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View Full Version : Why is there a rimfire ammo shortage?



10x
05-18-2014, 04:20 PM
CCI Can produce 4 million rounds of 22 rim fire a day.
Now some one please tell me why they can't get those to the store shelves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5qMsmucXhI

btroj
05-18-2014, 04:23 PM
Because people can buy 4,000,001 round a day. The supply never exceeds the demand.

Basic economics.

starmac
05-18-2014, 04:35 PM
Because people are standing there buying them off of the pallet, before the employees can get them on the shelf. lol

Bullshop Junior
05-18-2014, 04:42 PM
Really? Seriously? Again?!?

bubba.50
05-18-2014, 04:47 PM
there's not a shortage of 22 ammo. there's a surplus of money-grubbin' hoarders. tables full of 22's at the gun show yesterday. $15.00 boxes of 100 & $60.00 bulk boxes of the federals that were like 8 bucks or so before the nonsense started. bricks anywhere from $60.00 to over $100.00 dependin' on grade of ammo.

btroj
05-18-2014, 04:51 PM
Really? Seriously? Again?!?

Must be a shortage of topics to post about. Dang hoarders and gougers must be snapping them up too.....

Bullshop
05-18-2014, 04:51 PM
Who cares! Anyone that has a center fire of any flavor and casts boolits don't need no stinkin RF.

canyon-ghost
05-18-2014, 04:56 PM
Well, there are centainly a lot of new high capactiy 22 rimfire guns coming out nowdays. They're a basic big boy toy. I think that's where all the 22 is going.

GRUMPA
05-18-2014, 04:58 PM
This to me is funny, and the outcome revolves around what Bullshop says. Here I go to the Post Office and I get hit up by 2 different people that know what I do (very small town) asking if I know where to get 22rf ammo.

To make a long story short I told them I have no clue, got rid of the only 22rf I had 2yrs ago. When asked why I simply put it I can make my own CF ammo cheaper and better. And.....if you learned to cast and reload you can do the same.

Mod42
05-18-2014, 04:59 PM
Because people can buy 4,000,001 round a day. The supply never exceeds the demand.

Basic economics.

Four million rounds per day = 8,ooo bricks of 500 per day.
If there are 100,000,000 shooters looking for 22 ammo, it would take CCI 34 years to produce one brick per shooter!!

btroj,s answer is right on the money!

pretzelxx
05-18-2014, 05:10 PM
I bought a brick, that's why the supply can't keep up. Me!!! All me!!!

In all honesty, it's absurd. People still pay the huge ticket price even if they can wait a while and buy cheaper if they put a little effort in. That's why you got scalpers around still.

Love Life
05-18-2014, 05:35 PM
Because the evil dragon Smaug is hoarding it all. The only way to get 22lr back on the shelves is to send a quest, staffed by dwarves and a Hobbit, to defeat the evil dragon and return all the 22lr back to the shelves.

That's the only way I know how to solve the issue.

starmac
05-18-2014, 05:53 PM
This so called shortage is a great thing. I always give bricks for christmas and even birthday presents. The folks I give them too think I am going all out anymore. lol

NewbieDave007
05-18-2014, 05:53 PM
Because the evil dragon Smaug is hoarding it all. The only way to get 22lr back on the shelves is to send a quest, staffed by dwarves and a Hobbit, to defeat the evil dragon and return all the 22lr back to the shelves.

That's the only way I know how to solve the issue.

Truer words have never been typed. Lol.

Btw, I like your signature line.

WILCO
05-18-2014, 05:54 PM
[QUOTE=btroj;2784672] hoarders and gougers QUOTE]

Two words I'm sick of reading. It's supply and demand. You'll pay for what you want.
Find out when the store receives a truck and get down there before they're open.
Stand in line and make a purchase. It really is that easy folks.

lonewelder
05-18-2014, 05:59 PM
Who cares! Anyone that has a center fire of any flavor and casts boolits don't need no stinkin RF.

That's my thoughts,even thought about selling all my 22s except maybe a squirrel rifle.what I can't understand is why does every body want 22s so bad.

starmac
05-18-2014, 06:01 PM
If I have to stand in line, I would just leave them for somebody else. lol
But then I am the type of guy that pulls up with a full shopping cart of groceries and leaves it when the lines are long and they only have one or two registers running out of ten or twelve.

plmitch
05-18-2014, 06:13 PM
There is no real shortage just cheap people.

C. Latch
05-18-2014, 06:14 PM
The 'shortage' exists because people were daydreaming about shooting during economics class, and they learned nothing the easy way, so they're now learning economics 101 the hard way.

oldred
05-18-2014, 06:18 PM
If I have to stand in line, I would just leave them for somebody else. lol
But then I am the type of guy that pulls up with a full shopping cart of groceries and leaves it when the lines are long and they only have one or two registers running out of ten or twelve.


EXACTLY, and I thought I was the only one that did that!

375RUGER
05-18-2014, 06:27 PM
Cause the gubmint shut down Doe Run

jcwit
05-18-2014, 06:40 PM
All these new shooters sure aren't joining clubs at least not here in So. Michigan or No. Indiana.

country gent
05-18-2014, 06:56 PM
Another issue is all the doomsdayers **** hits the fan survivalists that have to have 50,000 rounds + in there basements or shelters. One thing it has done is help sell 22 firearms here as if you buy a gun you can buy ammo, alot thinking about another 22 buy it and a brick or more of ammo

btroj
05-18-2014, 07:00 PM
I wish whining, complaining, pissing, and moaning were in short supply too.

Sadly, there seems to be a surplus of those, largely as it pertains to shortages of other items.

WILCO
05-18-2014, 07:09 PM
I wish whining, complaining, pissing, and moaning were in short supply too.

But capitalism is supposed to be a social program. Everyone is entitled to be owed something............

btroj
05-18-2014, 07:16 PM
They are entitled to my disdain

mikeym1a
05-18-2014, 09:22 PM
That 4 million rds of .22 is from CCI only. there are at least 3 other ammo manufacturers in the US, plus the imports. It does make me wonder. mikey

btroj
05-18-2014, 09:25 PM
Wonder about what? A govt conspiracy? Foreign conspiracy?

Supply vs demand.

Simple stuff. No wondering, just reality

Cmm_3940
05-18-2014, 09:38 PM
http://sierrabullets.wordpress.com/2014/04/07/why-cant-i-find-22-lr-ammunition/

tl;dr supply and demand.

Love Life
05-18-2014, 09:50 PM
Smaug.

Bullshop Junior
05-18-2014, 09:57 PM
It's all being sent to Nuuk Greenland.

bangerjim
05-18-2014, 09:58 PM
Here we go again! "Shoot ONLY what you can reload!"

Nuff said!

banger

jcwit
05-18-2014, 10:00 PM
Till all the madness is settled out and the supply is restored will we actually know what caused all this.

Till then it is all speculation and opinion, and my opinion may not agree with others just as theirs may not agree with mine.

JonB_in_Glencoe
05-18-2014, 10:09 PM
there's not a shortage of 22 ammo. there's a surplus of money-grubbin' hoarders. tables full of 22's at the gun show yesterday. $15.00 boxes of 100 & $60.00 bulk boxes of the federals that were like 8 bucks or so before the nonsense started. bricks anywhere from $60.00 to over $100.00 dependin' on grade of ammo.

MY 2¢...
When Hillary is elected El Presidente in 2016 and the GOP loses the house...Then the prices that my good friend bubba.50 posted above, will sound CHEAP. I believe there are speculators figuring the same thing. Any 22LR you can buy now for $50 a brick will be worth lots more in 2016 if the Dem's gain all the control.
Good Luck

Garyshome
05-18-2014, 10:16 PM
There sure are plenty of 22 cal firearms for sale now a days! There is No Way I would buy one [Don't need more then I already have] if the ammo is not available.

NewbieDave007
05-18-2014, 10:20 PM
Did anyone hear about doe run?

TXGunNut
05-18-2014, 10:21 PM
Who cares! Anyone that has a center fire of any flavor and casts boolits don't need no stinkin RF.



Well said! I have plenty of 22LR, just don't care to shoot them. May try again when it gets too hot to shoot CF rifles but may just shoot BP revolvers and frontstuffers.

Baja_Traveler
05-18-2014, 10:24 PM
The only thing I use .22's for is our monthly silhouette matches - I figure I have two years on the shelf at 2 matches a month. If I can't find a brick for less than $40 by then I won't shoot those matches any more and stick to center fire....

freebullet
05-18-2014, 10:30 PM
"Why is there a rimfire ammo shortage?"

I didn't know there was one. I guess if there is a shortage its because some folks aren't smart enough to cast, reload, and own calibers conducive to such. Since most folks here reload better calibers for the old cost of rf ammo you shouldn't be surprised by many of the responses posted. Simply put most here couldn't care less about 22lr myself included.

This thread would be better off on a rim fire forum.

str8shot426
05-18-2014, 11:04 PM
I bought 400 rnds ten years ago for pest reasons. Still have 380 rnds.

No shortage here!

Bullshop Junior
05-18-2014, 11:08 PM
Well said! I have plenty of 22LR, just don't care to shoot them. May try again when it gets too hot to shoot CF rifles but may just shoot BP revolvers and frontstuffers.

Wai wai wait. Too hot to shoot..?

TXGunNut
05-18-2014, 11:24 PM
Wai wai wait. Too hot to shoot..?

Welcome to Texas! When ambient temp is 95 degrees or better a CF hunting rifle simply will not cool down and the duration of a shooting session is often 3-4 rounds unless you have an air tank in your shooting kit. When you cast boolits outside in August you have to wait until after sundown to let them cool off enough to bring them inside.

wallenba
05-18-2014, 11:35 PM
I hear stories about folks waiting in the stores for them to stocked and grabbing most or all that come in when they come in. What stores? Walmart, K-Mart? I visit most of the local gun shops around me at least once a month. None of them are getting any at all. What outlets are getting preference?

NewbieDave007
05-18-2014, 11:40 PM
I hear stories about folks waiting in the stores for them to stocked and grabbing most or all that come in when they come in. What stores? Walmart, K-Mart? I visit most of the local gun shops around me at least once a month. None of them are getting any at all. What outlets are getting preference?

I just checked the Wal-Mart app and a store about 7 miles from me (I'm in a big metro area) is getting Winchester 333's. If I wanted some (I have plenty for now) I would go there at 5am and wait in line until they bring them out at 7am.

jcwit
05-18-2014, 11:44 PM
MY 2¢...
When Hillary is elected El Presidente in 2016 and the GOP loses the house...Then the prices that my good friend bubba.50 posted above, will sound CHEAP. I believe there are speculators figuring the same thing. Any 22LR you can buy now for $50 a brick will be worth lots more in 2016 if the Dem's gain all the control.
Good Luck

And if the dem's don't gain control, then what?

TXGunNut
05-18-2014, 11:56 PM
And if the dem's don't gain control, then what?

The smart ones among us will just stock up and wait for the folks that vote for a living to regain control.

WILCO
05-19-2014, 12:02 AM
The smart ones among us will just stock up and wait for.......

Oh boy! Brace yourself for the "H" & "G" words.......

jcwit
05-19-2014, 12:05 AM
H & G????????????????

Hoard

Gouge

There I said it.

fatelk
05-19-2014, 12:09 AM
An acquaintance recently told me how he had something like 100k rounds of .22lr stashed away. He was pretty proud of his cleverness at figuring out some kind of alert system to his smart phone and knowing exactly when to go wait in line at walmart to pick up his daily allotment, along with his wife and whatever other relative happened to be around. I asked if he did a lot of shooting. He basically doesn't shoot at all, but it makes him feel good to have a huge stash of ammo around just in case. You get a few thousand like him around the country, along with resellers and the like, and it's not hard to figure out where it's all going.

As to casting and reloading cheaper that rimfire; this may be true if you have lots of spare time. At this point in my life I do not, but that's OK because I don't have a lot of time to shoot either. That, and I just don't shoot a lot of volume either.

When I was a kid, a box of 50 22lr lasted all day. It seems like nowadays folks have to burn through a couple bricks in an afternoon to have any fun. What's with that?

TXGunNut
05-19-2014, 12:16 AM
I've been keeping a comprehensive supply since Clinton I slithered into office, I will be prepared to survive Clinton II. I'm not a gouger, I sometimes loan commodities to folks with less foresight. I don't hoard but I don't run out either, feel free to form your own opinion. I'll give you a hint, my degree is in business. I understand supply & demand.

TXGunNut
05-19-2014, 12:28 AM
fatelk, folks like your friend are "causing" this "shortage" and quite honestly I could care less. Thanks to him and and folks like him we have a heightened awareness of just how fragile the ammo supply chain really is. I think that's a good thing.
Had a good friend, now shooting at heaven's range, who told me years ago that firearms and ammo companies are actually not huge corporations and a sudden heightened demand was all it takes to cause a "shortage".
Nowadays firearms and ammo companies are part of large corporations but their production capability has not changed appreciably.
If you don't have enough ammo and components to make it thru the next rough spot, perhaps you'll learn to do better next time.

Bullshop Junior
05-19-2014, 12:39 AM
I think the next person who starts a rimfire shortage thread should be banned

Springfield
05-19-2014, 12:46 AM
I tell you what, I am probably going to encourage my kids to move up to the junior shooters class sooner than I would have normally just so I can reload for them, instead of them shooting .22's. I did get a 500 round box from Midway Friday, that had been backordered since January. It cost about the same, with shipping, as what some of the guys on Craigslist are charging, but I refuse to buy from hoarders/scalpers/gougers, whatever your favorite word for them is. And I didn't have to drive anywhere to get it. Time IS money, after all.

waltherboy4040
05-19-2014, 12:54 AM
Almost completely stopped shooting 22lr, saving most of it for squirrel season. Haven't seen a brick of federal in a long time.

Been seeing 22 shorts and high velocity ammo but it only stays on the shelves a bit longer.

jcwit
05-19-2014, 12:57 AM
I have 10's of thousands of 22's "hoarded?" away. All were purchased long, long ago before any of this madness was ever dreamed of. Why do I have such a stash? Well back in the day when you could buy 500 round bricks for $7/$8 bucks and on sale for $5 bucks I bought a brick here and a couple there, just because.

I've also done the same with motor oil, after all when Menards offers me Q/S synthetic 12 qts for the price of a stamp, why not, I use it eventually, at least I hope to live that long, I haven't purchased motor oil for years.

I've done the same with many things my wife & I use on a daily basis. I NEVER spend more than $ .20 cents for a roll of name brand of TP, but then I can't remember when we last purchased TP.

Am I buying these items to hoard? Not hardly, I'm buying at sale/close out pricing, and using it as we need it. All this saves cash allowing me to own my home with no monthly payments, paid cash for both of our vehicles. LOL, you should see the look on a new car salesman's face when he asks how you wish to finance it and you reach in your pocket and bring out a roll of 100 dollar bills.

Now back to all the speculation on opinions.

waltherboy4040
05-19-2014, 01:00 AM
I have 10's of thousands of 22's "hoarded?" away. All were purchased long, long ago before any of this madness was ever dreamed of. Why do I have such a stash? Well back in the day when you could buy 500 round bricks for $7/$8 bucks and on sale for $5 bucks I bought a brick here and a couple there, just because.

I've also done the same with motor oil, after all when Menards offers me Q/S synthetic 12 qts for the price of a stamp, why not, I use it eventually, at least I hope to live that long, I haven't purchased motor oil for years.

I've done the same with many things my wife & I use on a daily basis. I NEVER spend more than $ .20 cents for a roll of name brand of TP, but then I can't remember when we last purchased TP.

Am I buying these items to hoard? Not hardly, I'm buying at sale/close out pricing, and using it as we need it. All this saves cash allowing me to own my home with no monthly payments, paid cash for both of our vehicles. LOL, you should see the look on a new car salesman's face when he asks how you wish to finance it and you reach in your pocket and bring out a roll of 100 dollar bills.

Now back to all the speculation on opinions.

Wow I thought the days of $15 a brick on sale were good :0

NWPilgrim
05-19-2014, 01:02 AM
I wish whining, complaining, pissing, and moaning were in short supply too.

Sadly, there seems to be a surplus of those, largely as it pertains to shortages of other items.

That's why it is free! Oversupply.

As far as .22 ammo, every gun forum I am on for the past couple of decades when a newbie asked what their first gun should be there would be 47 pages saying ".22LR!" With zealous gun grabbers pushing restrictive laws and gun owners winning more CHL victories we have more and more new shooters. And it seems a large number if gun owners, myself included, enjoy shooting a few hundred rounds per session. Unlike 20 years ago when I shot 50 rounds per session.

I had a stockpile long before 2008 and have not bought a box for a very long time. But I know at least five close family friends that started in the last two years. That's more new shooters in my inner circle than the previous 30 years.

Something clicked and people are realizing they have to provide for their own protection and wouldn't it be nice to be able to meat on the table, too. We should welcome such a surge in our ranks. Just 5 million new shooters could seriously stress the ammo market. And how many shooting competitions and classes sprung up that run through a few thousand rounds per week? Older bullseye type competitions shot maybe 100-250 rds. Action events can shoot a couple thousand.

TXGunNut
05-19-2014, 01:03 AM
I think the next person who starts a rimfire shortage thread should be banned


I dunno, Daniel. They're quite popular, lead to sprited debate....but generally deteriorate from there. I see your point but I don't support your conclusion. Dunno why I even post on them, can't recall last time I fired a RF round but I have a few guns that fire them, and a few thousand rounds to feed them.

crazy mark
05-19-2014, 01:23 AM
I fired off 4 to test a couple of old 22's I bought a little while back.

jcwit
05-19-2014, 01:30 AM
That's why it is free! Oversupply.

In a word, WRONG!

If you were correct there would be other retailers other than Menards doing the same.

They use this as a loss leader to get folks into the door with the hope of selling them other items.

You need to take a close look at their adds if you have a Menards outlet near you.

This week in our area they have 4 "free" items after mail in rebate. One is a Bar B Q brush, I spose there's an over supply of basting brushes.

starmac
05-19-2014, 02:04 AM
I wish whining, complaining, pissing, and moaning were in short supply too.

I have only been in a few menards, but never realized they even sold whining,complaining,pissing and moaning, much less had a mail in rebate for it. lol

jcwit
05-19-2014, 02:06 AM
I wish whining, complaining, pissing, and moaning were in short supply too.

I have only been in a few menards, but never realized they even sold whining,complaining,pissing and moaning, much less had a mail in rebate for it. lol

Only when TP and motor oil is being hoarded. LOL

NWPilgrim
05-19-2014, 02:36 AM
In a word, WRONG!

If you were correct there would be other retailers other than Menards doing the same.

They use this as a loss leader to get folks into the door with the hope of selling them other items.

You need to take a close look at their adds if you have a Menards outlet near you.

This week in our area they have 4 "free" items after mail in rebate. One is a Bar B Q brush, I spose there's an over supply of basting brushes.

Humor is lost on the cheerless.

NWPilgrim
05-19-2014, 02:39 AM
I mentioned to a couple shops that they ought to hold some 22 back, they asked what for? Really? gun sales! The lights went on. Most shops here now have a brick or at least a couple hundred rnds set aside for new rifle sales. Nobody's gonna get a mother lode but least they can site it in and have some fun.

That is the same around here. I bought a SR22 and they allowed 100 rds with each purchase. Clerk said shipments are getting more frequent but will be a while longer until they get larger. But some light ahead.

lefty o
05-19-2014, 02:53 AM
i wont get too involved in this, cuz people wont listen to the truth even if you beat them in the head with it, but.. several mentions of doerun have been made. well, doe run shutting down has had exactly zero percent affect on any of the ammunition/bullet manufacturers, as none, read that again, NOT ONE SINGLE ONE OF THEM USE OR HAS USED VIRGIN LEAD FOR A VERY VERY LONG TIME. too many people are paranoid, just because they need to be paranoid. if anyone really cared, they would be out pushing hard and doing what needs to be done to keep democrats from being elected to office.

Cmm_3940
05-19-2014, 03:15 AM
Doe Run is an ongoing Cast Boolits meme. Don't mess with the meme. I hear it has a nasty bite. :wink:

Pb2au
05-19-2014, 08:33 AM
Smaug.

I like this theory the best, therefore I will support it.
Clearly there is a dragon involved. I will pledge my support to any quest involving the vanquishing of said dragon. I even have an ax.

JonB_in_Glencoe
05-19-2014, 11:16 AM
MY 2¢...
When Hillary is elected El Presidente in 2016 and the GOP loses the house...Then the prices that my good friend bubba.50 posted above, will sound CHEAP. I believe there are speculators figuring the same thing. Any 22LR you can buy now for $50 a brick will be worth lots more in 2016 if the Dem's gain all the control.
Good Luck


And if the dem's don't gain control, then what?


I have 10's of thousands of 22's "hoarded?" away. All were purchased long, long ago before any of this madness was ever dreamed of. Why do I have such a stash? Well back in the day when you could buy 500 round bricks for $7/$8 bucks and on sale for $5 bucks I bought a brick here and a couple there, just because.

I've also done the same with motor oil, after all when Menards offers me Q/S synthetic 12 qts for the price of a stamp, why not, I use it eventually, at least I hope to live that long, I haven't purchased motor oil for years.

I've done the same with many things my wife & I use on a daily basis. I NEVER spend more than $ .20 cents for a roll of name brand of TP, but then I can't remember when we last purchased TP.

Am I buying these items to hoard? Not hardly, I'm buying at sale/close out pricing, and using it as we need it. All this saves cash allowing me to own my home with no monthly payments, paid cash for both of our vehicles. LOL, you should see the look on a new car salesman's face when he asks how you wish to finance it and you reach in your pocket and bring out a roll of 100 dollar bills.

Now back to all the speculation on opinions.

I have to assume your question to me was rhetorical, From your many posts, like the last one I quoted above, you seem smart enough to understand American politics and how it effects the free market.

But, since I easily take the bait, when offered...To your question, I'll say this, I believe that same type of people that are buying all the 22LR ammo, are the same type of people that were buying Generators prior to Y2K. Shortly after Y2K, I was chompin' at the bit to buy me a minty Generator at Garage Sale pricing...but they proved to be as illusive and the Asperly Aimless. So I don't expect 22LR ammo will be available for "buying at sale/close out pricing" when "the dem's don't gain control" in 2016.
That's another 2¢ worth ;)

WILCO
05-19-2014, 11:22 AM
.22 rimfire ammunition is the new "Gasoline". You'll never see it again for $10.00 a brick.

montana_charlie
05-19-2014, 12:25 PM
Humor is lost on the cheerless.
Yep ...

badbob454
05-19-2014, 12:37 PM
one word Greed...

MBTcustom
05-19-2014, 12:47 PM
I had an interesting conversation with a feller at the local bank branch about this subject.
He saw the name of my account, and asked me what I do? Told him I'm a gunsmith.
The very next question out of his mouth was: "what do you think of this 22 shortage? what's causing it?

Well, I said. Do you remember the good ol days when you would go by walmart and see all the 22 stacked up on the shelf?
Sure! he said.
OK, you saw it there, but did you buy any?
Well, no.
OK, so if you saw the shelf stacked with ammo exactly the way it was 5 years ago, would you buy some now?
Absolutely!
Do you shoot a lot more now than you did 5 years ago?
Well, no.
Would you if you had the ammo?
I dont think so.
There's your shortage in a nutshell!!!!

Listen, it's not the hoarders, it's not the gougers, it's not the government. It's the fact that we are having this conversation. It's death by 10000 cuts.
In massive amounts of people, a small sentiment of unrest, turns into a big deal.
We just had a tornado blow through a town I have to drive through on the freeway on my way to work. This happened weeks ago. The road was totally clear the day after the storm. Yet, we are being delayed over an hour in our daily commute (I carpool with my father). Dad is absolutely cussing the guy that is causing the holdup every day. "some jerk just had to stop and take a look at the damage" he says to me.
No. I say, we are just as much at fault as everybody in front of us.
What are you talking about? he says.
Well, I don't know if you've noticed, but when we are driving through the tornado damage, there's about a half a cars length that magically develops between me and the guy in front of me.
So what? he says.
Dad, the guy in front of me didn't speed up ya know.
OK.....
So we have about 2000 cars we are driving with every morning, and if each one does what I just did, then it all stacks up! There's your slowdown. It's not one guy causing all the trouble, it's 2000 people each gaining 5 feet stopping distance behind the guy in front of them!

Look fellers, I'm good friends with the guy that decides what ammo goes to what walmart store all across the US. I asked him what he's seeing a few weeks ago.
he said, Tim it's crazy. I send twice as much ammo as I used to to store X. That amount of ammo used to keep them stocked for a month 4 years ago, and now it doesn't make it 2 days! Even the purchase limits he imposed have done no good.

SO! You want the cost of 22 to come back down? Then find something else to do and quit worrying about it! Try to get 5 other people to do the same.

Now granted, most places (like my blessed state of Arkansas) if you want to hunt squirrels you have 2 options: RF cartridge less than 22 caliber, or shotgun between 410 and 10 gauge.
That said, I have a handful of 22's that have lasted me all the way up to this point. I kill about 5 squirrels a year average, and I only need 10 shots to do it (figure a five shot group to sight in with). If all you are doing is plinking, then grab your 30-30 and a couple pounds of Unique and have a time with it!

jcwit
05-19-2014, 01:15 PM
I have to assume your question to me was rhetorical, From your many posts, like the last one I quoted above, you seem smart enough to understand American politics and how it effects the free market.

But, since I easily take the bait, when offered...To your question, I'll say this, I believe that same type of people that are buying all the 22LR ammo, are the same type of people that were buying Generators prior to Y2K. Shortly after Y2K, I was chompin' at the bit to buy me a minty Generator at Garage Sale pricing...but they proved to be as illusive and the Asperly Aimless. So I don't expect 22LR ammo will be available for "buying at sale/close out pricing" when "the dem's don't gain control" in 2016.
That's another 2¢ worth ;)

You are more than likely correct.


Listen, it's not the hoarders, it's not the gougers

But these folks sure aren't helping the situation any.

I am not shooting as much as I always did, but it has nothing to do with using up my stash, or the cost of ammo to replace. It all has to do with the fact I'm getting old, older, or whatever. Going into the VA tomorrow to see if something can be done to my hip so I can walk without so much pain. Just a fact of life, it snuck up on me before I knew it.

MBTcustom
05-19-2014, 01:33 PM
But these folks sure aren't helping the situation any.


No they aren't. But they have only the ability to buy a few thousand 22s. It's all the sheeple that see them do it and flock like roaches to the stores to buy "just one brick" that accounts for the millions more that are bought, which causes the shortage.
You've got a million people, each holding a box or two of ammo, blaming the guy that bought 100 boxes.
It's hilarious!!!

starmac
05-19-2014, 01:57 PM
I still like to shoot them some, but have given away more by far the last couple of years than I have shot. All of what I do have, I bought after the 2008 crunch, and I will buy more when they reappear hopefully. I don't personally need them, but I have a grandson that will get his first 22 (single shot) probably this coming year, and the grand daughter a year or so after. Unless things change she will probably require as much or more ammo than her brother. lol I am working on reloadable 22 cals for them, but it will be a few years before they grow into them.

dtknowles
05-19-2014, 06:17 PM
That's my thoughts,even thought about selling all my 22s except maybe a squirrel rifle.what I can't understand is why does every body want 22s so bad.

I have a Ruger 10/22, Ruger SingleSix, two Ruger MKII's, an Anschutz Exemplar and a Walther P22. I like to shoot all of these firearms and with .22 ammo priced as it is it would be silly to sell them right now even if I wanted too. It is usually a lot less work to prepare ammo for shooting .22 LR than reloading even the simplest centerfire ammo. One of my MKII's shoots smaller groups than any other handgun I own except my Exemplar. Try and find another repeating handgun for under $400 that shoots groups under an inch at 25 yards.

Tim

fatelk
05-19-2014, 09:30 PM
Goodsteel, your explanation is a good one. I've heard stories of people buying ammo that don't even own guns. A friend's wife works at Bimart and sometimes works the sporting goods counter. She said one day a "little old lady" happened by and saw the rare brick of .22lr on the shelf and bought it.

She asked her by way of conversation if she liked to shoot, or if they were for her husband, grandson, etc.. She said neither. She didn't even have a gun, but she knew .22 ammo was rare so she saw some and bought it.

Should we start a rumor and see how it works? Maybe spread it around that 9v batteries are soon to be reformulated by government mandate for some weird reason or another, the new ones won't be as good and availability will be limited, and see what happens to 9v batteries on the shelves.

How many people keep stocks of 9v batteries? If you're like most people you by a couple every year or so to swap out the ones in the smoke detectors, and only buy them when you need them, or maybe have a couple in the pantry.

If some kind of moderately believable rumor made the rounds, I would bet that store shelves would be cleared of all 9v batteries and you wouldn't be able to find any for a year, because half the people that walked by them would grab at least a few. A sudden, even moderate, increase in demand would completely swamp supply, give credence to the rumor that would then build on itself causing even more demand. Human nature- we are funny creatures, aren't we?

NewbieDave007
05-19-2014, 09:46 PM
OHHH I see you do know about this new deal on the 9v batteries. Not only do they not last as long there is a chip in the new ones that monitor activites of the folks using them. Dept of Homeland is push for them under the guise of welll the war or terrorism. because these new batteries monitor everthing to include a upload feed of GPS coordinate they only have 75% of the battery life available.

You guys are starting this too soon. I need to make sure I fully invest in all of the battery companies before this really kicks off.

yoter
05-20-2014, 12:49 PM
Had to quit hunting small game with 22 LR. I went to pellet rifles for hunting rabbits. No shortage of pellets.

David2011
05-20-2014, 11:20 PM
The increased number of gun owners, the high capacity 22lr guns available, the political climate- no- the FEAR of the current administration is more accurate, the unknown future and the practical limit of how much the manufacturers can produce are al factors. True hoarders, the preppers and the like, are probably only a small portion of the problem based on my own seat-of-the pants perceptions. Those who buy for themselves simply because it's available are definite contributors. To me there is a difference between honest capitalism and scalping. Scalpers are helping cause the problem to advance their greed. I don't need lectures on capitalism. I'm a capitalist. Scalping is illegal when a tropical storm or hurricane approaches in many states. I see no difference between scalping on plywood and scalping on ammunition. During a hurricane ammunition and plywood can both be necessities. I will start buying .22lr again when the prices are no longer usurious. If that means the supply I have has to last the rest of my days, I can live with that.

I inventoried lots of primers when I was shooting tens of thousands of rounds every year. Since I transferred to a different area a few years ago the powder and primers are not going as fast so I will shoot reloads to my heart's content. If I'm really lucky I'll live long enough to use all of my primers.

David

Gator 45/70
05-20-2014, 11:48 PM
Mai David, Our scalping as you call it is indeed a law for business's to ad here by, It does not apply too the Motley Kwewes of Old Mullets that camp out at the wally world sporting goods at 5 am. Only later too post it the same day at double or triple the price on Choupics web site

I saw plenty of 22lr. 22mag. and .17 hmr for sale along with a few powders and 40.00 per 1k of primers at a local maw and paw place, Problem being is a 50 rd box of CCI round nose lead heads started at 6.00 a box, The bottom line is I passed on the 22lrs, Never bothered too ask about the other rounds,




The increased number of gun owners, the high capacity 22lr guns available, the political climate- no- the FEAR of the current administration is more accurate, the unknown future and the practical limit of how much the manufacturers can produce are al factors. True hoarders, the preppers and the like, are probably only a small portion of the problem based on my own seat-of-the pants perceptions. Those who buy for themselves simply because it's available are definite contributors. To me there is a difference between honest capitalism and scalping. Scalpers are helping cause the problem to advance their greed. I don't need lectures on capitalism. I'm a capitalist. Scalping is illegal when a tropical storm or hurricane approaches in many states. I see no difference between scalping on plywood and scalping on ammunition. During a hurricane ammunition and plywood can both be necessities. I will start buying .22lr again when the prices are no longer usurious. If that means the supply I have has to last the rest of my days, I can live with that.

I inventoried lots of primers when I was shooting tens of thousands of rounds every year. Since I transferred to a different area a few years ago the powder and primers are not going as fast so I will shoot reloads to my heart's content. If I'm really lucky I'll live long enough to use all of my primers.

David

dakotashooter2
05-21-2014, 06:50 PM
If you are over 50 think back to the first .22 you shot. It was probably a single shot or bolt action. I could spend all day hunting gophers and not go through 50 rounds. Now days Maybe 5-10 % of the market is single shots and/or bolts. The market share is semi auto guns and it's a lot easier to blow through a brick in an afternoon. Just look at the growth and popularity of the AR style .22 rifles. The price of CF ammo has also driven some shooters back to the .22. I think shooting competitions have also grown the last several years pulling in new shooters and shooters that have not even looked at a .22 in years.

I rarely shoot .22 despite having 4 rifles and 2 revolvers but about 2 years before the shortage started I began buying a couple bricks a year when they were on sale. I probably have about 3K but that's probably enough to last me 10 years. I did buy the last 2 bricks my small town has had in 3 years but they sat on the store shelf for at least 3 months before I finally grabbed them, giving someone else plenty of opportunity to get them. I will continue to buy when I can but that is just because I now have a grandson that I hope to keep in ammo when he is ready to start shooting in a few years. At some point the hoarders will have to stop buying. They will run out of space, money or their wives will find their stash and many new shooters will get frustrated with the shortage of ammo and just give up.

I do think we may see an increase in demand for some of the old .22 centerfire cartridges like the hornet,bee,fireball and etc.

Wally
05-21-2014, 07:24 PM
I bought seven 525 Value packs from a vendor in the fall of 2012 on sale for $15.99 each... I am not sure why I did, but I felt that I better do so. Shortly thereafter this shortage non-sense started and I never saw then available again. I shot very little .22 RF last year as I realize the availability and cost of replacing my stock is just bad news. I had thought the manufactures would have either imported or increased their manufacturing capacity ... I see neither happening. Makes no sense to me to buy .22 RF ammo at 10¢ a round when i can load CF ammo for less than that. I enjoy shooting the CF ammo more anyway.

Seems to me that many interested in shooting start w/the .22 RF ...if they cannot get ammo or the cost is too high, it will dissuade them from getting into this hobby. If enough don't, the balance of pro vs anti gun electorate will change and the liberals will take advantage of the situation with more anti-gun laws.

Sure hope that this situation improves very quickly...as I know many are hurting not having it be available at a fair price.

Mausermeister
05-21-2014, 07:45 PM
I haven't bought any 22 ammo since the two cases of Automatch I purchased in October 2012. I can find plenty of the cheaper plinking 22. Prices are 2x - 3x what they were before.

The problem I am having is finding match 22 ammo. The only match 22 ammo I have seen available anywhere is Eley, which was extremely expensive before this nonsense started and I couldn't afford to shoot it then.

I'm not going to run out anytime soon. Still have about 35000 rounds of the cheaper stuff and several bricks of match ammo left, but I have not been shooting it the last couple of years like I was before.

dakotashooter2
05-22-2014, 09:32 AM
I don't even throw out my 38 sp brass that has cracked necks. I trim them down to "short colt or 38 S&W" length and load them up. They make a great low recoil load that are 1/2 the current cost of .22 and will probably be what my grandson learns to shoot handgun with.

9.3X62AL
05-22-2014, 10:07 AM
David 2011's explanation makes a lot of sense to me--sort of a "perfect storm" of economic negatives that have combined to result in scarce supplies and high prices. I love how the Captain Mensheviks all line up to blurt out how $75-$100 bricks of 22 LR ammo are perfectly normal and just a part of the Capitalist Miracle. Sorry, but I don't buy that--it is greed and theft, period--and thankfully I am not obliged to deal with jerks of that kind due to my hobby interest in casting and reloading. It is still wrong as hell, and if someone objects to the terms "scalper" or "hoarder" as used in this context, perhaps THIEF or GRIFTER is more to the point and a more succinct descriptor that might be hitting a little too close to home.

LeadRecycler
05-22-2014, 10:28 AM
We had our town-wide yard sales last weekend. I saw one house with anything gun related -- 3 of the 525 packs of .22LR, priced at $60 per. I offered $60 for all 3, and the lady kind of chuckled. She asked if I had bought any .22 lately. I smiled at her, and said no, I hadn't. I refuse to pay stupid prices for it. She told me I was unlikely to find any for a "reasonable" price. It was then I pointed out to her that she left the Wal-Mart receipt tucked into the flap of one of the boxes...$25 per box, bought the day before.

9.3X62AL
05-22-2014, 10:52 AM
We had our town-wide yard sales last weekend. I saw one house with anything gun related -- 3 of the 525 packs of .22LR, priced at $60 per. I offered $60 for all 3, and the lady kind of chuckled. She asked if I had bought any .22 lately. I smiled at her, and said no, I hadn't. I refuse to pay stupid prices for it. She told me I was unlikely to find any for a "reasonable" price. It was then I pointed out to her that she left the Wal-Mart receipt tucked into the flap of one of the boxes...$25 per box, bought the day before.

Classic!

Mausermeister
05-22-2014, 11:54 AM
We had our town-wide yard sales last weekend. I saw one house with anything gun related -- 3 of the 525 packs of .22LR, priced at $60 per. I offered $60 for all 3, and the lady kind of chuckled. She asked if I had bought any .22 lately. I smiled at her, and said no, I hadn't. I refuse to pay stupid prices for it. She told me I was unlikely to find any for a "reasonable" price. It was then I pointed out to her that she left the Wal-Mart receipt tucked into the flap of one of the boxes...$25 per box, bought the day before.
And her response was????

Zymurgy50
05-22-2014, 08:18 PM
We had our town-wide yard sales last weekend. I saw one house with anything gun related -- 3 of the 525 packs of .22LR, priced at $60 per. I offered $60 for all 3, and the lady kind of chuckled. She asked if I had bought any .22 lately. I smiled at her, and said no, I hadn't. I refuse to pay stupid prices for it. She told me I was unlikely to find any for a "reasonable" price. It was then I pointed out to her that she left the Wal-Mart receipt tucked into the flap of one of the boxes...$25 per box, bought the day before.



Makes me wonder how many more she had hiding to bring out when they sold those three.

9.3X62AL
05-22-2014, 08:28 PM
I don't mean to begrudge a dealer or vendor an honest profit for stocking and selling the goodies I enjoy buying and using--please let me be clear on that. But the example cited by Recycler states the case succinctly, that avaricious azzhats are sticking it to folks that just want to enjoy our sport--and it annoys me smartly. They AREN'T HELPING, not in the least.

jcwit
05-22-2014, 08:30 PM
Hey! Wasn't she only meeting the new current fair market price?

9.3X62AL
05-22-2014, 08:34 PM
Hey! Wasn't she only meeting the new current fair market price?

Mi nalgas......

jcwit
05-22-2014, 09:33 PM
Mi nalgas......

No idea what that means, being as I live in the U.S., English is my language.

Sweetpea
05-22-2014, 09:42 PM
I got it...

Just use your imagination...

Cmm_3940
05-23-2014, 05:00 AM
Better yet, use Google Translate... ;)

jcwit
05-23-2014, 05:26 AM
No good

LeadRecycler
05-23-2014, 08:50 AM
And her response was????
I didn't give her time to respond, as I was walking away at that point. I don't believe she said anything, anyway. Just stood there with a look on her face like she was trying to figure out who I am. That's the one nice thing about being the "new guy" in a town this small; not everybody knows you.

Bullshop Junior
05-23-2014, 09:12 AM
No idea what that means, being as I live in the U.S., English is my language.

There is a awesome little tool out there called google translate.

jcwit
05-23-2014, 09:33 AM
Well whoop de doo, why not just say BS.

After all it is what it is, isn't it?

By what some here and on other forums think that was exactly what she was doing.

Elkins45
05-23-2014, 09:53 AM
Sorry, but I don't buy that--it is greed and theft, period--and thankfully I am not obliged to deal with jerks of that kind due to my hobby interest in casting and reloading. It is still wrong as hell, and if someone objects to the terms "scalper" or "hoarder" as used in this context, perhaps THIEF or GRIFTER is more to the point and a more succinct descriptor that might be hitting a little too close to home.

Greed, yes, but it is absolutely NOT theft. Nobody is reaching into your pants and taking your money then shoving a brick of ammo into your hands. When someone voluntarily participates in a transaction for a non-essential commodity at overinflated prices that doesn't make them a victim of theft. It makes them a victim of their own bad judgement.

I haven't bought 22 ammo since December of 2012, and I won't again until the price and availability is at a level I can tolerate. I also haven't bought any diamonds, gold bullion, Beanie Babies or Ferrari parts. There are guys out there who will compete with each other to pay hundreds of dollars for old model train engines that probably cost $3 new. I don't buy those either.

I think ammo scalping is a distasteful practice and I won't deal with people who do it, but the buyers are just as much to blame for continuing to make the practice profitible. The sellers wouldn't exist without the buyers.

The people I really feel bad for are the ones just getting into shooting, or parents wanting to teach their kids to shoot. Those are the people that scalpers are really hurting. All the rest of us should have been stocked up already.

LeadRecycler
05-23-2014, 10:18 AM
The people I really feel bad for are the ones just getting into shooting, or parents wanting to teach their kids to shoot. Those are the people that scalpers are really hurting. All the rest of us should have been stocked up already.

I agree with this, which is why I was looking at .22 anyway. My stock is getting low, because I keep giving it to folks who are trying to teach a youngster to shoot. My stock is below 1000 rounds now, so I look at it when I see it. Still refuse to pay $60/box though. Luckily, my kids shoot .38 spc just fine.

9.3X62AL
05-23-2014, 11:02 AM
Elkins' last paragraph cuts right to the chase, and sums up most of my annoyance with the practices under discussion here. I'm in fair shape in terms of 22 LR ammo, and I have centerfire rounds I can refill 'til the cows come home. Still, this avaricious course of conduct is reprehensible--and I'll be (blank)ed if I'll feed the jerks.

Bullshop Junior
05-23-2014, 11:26 AM
I think the deal with new shooters buying 22s is spot on. Look how many new casters have joined this forum since te shortage started. Same with powder and primers. People are buying them and ten dont really know what to do with them.

9.3X62AL
05-23-2014, 11:35 AM
People are buying them and then don't really know what to do with them.

That is an easy fix. If they haven't already done so, buy a reloading manual or two and educate themselves. I've seen those posts, too--another side-effect of the feeding frenzy. We can get 'em schooled with a little guidance, it ain't rocket science--but it requires care and a modicum of understanding.

Elkins45
05-23-2014, 11:53 AM
That is an easy fix. If they haven't already done so, buy a reloading manual or two and educate themselves. I've seen those posts, too--another side-effect of the feeding frenzy. We can get 'em schooled with a little guidance, it ain't rocket science--but it requires care and a modicum of understanding.

This brings up and interesting and scary point that I've noticed in recent posts. People who don't understand the complexity of what and why happens inside the case generally can reload quite successfully as long as they follow the manuals like a cookbook. The problem has become that none of the powders listed in the manual were available and questions like "can I create a substitute load using a burn rate chart?" start to crop up. That's when bad stuff starts happening.

Bullshop Junior
05-23-2014, 12:07 PM
You can if you know what you are doing. But someone who has never loaded a round in their life should not.

dtknowles
05-23-2014, 12:58 PM
I agree that if you follow the manual to the letter then you really don't have to more than be able to read and comprehend. At 15 I taught myself to reload for my 30-30 and at 16 was casting and reloading cast bullets, started with a Hornady Handbook and then got a Lyman when I started to cast. All my equipment was Lyman at the time. The guys at the shop where I ordered my equipment were not much help, I think they knew less than I did but would not admit it, they sold my brother healed bullets meant for 32 Colt to load in his 32 S&W long, I know they worked but I am not sure the shop knew the difference and I bet the guy they stocked them for was sad when the were no longer on the shelf. I got the Hornady handbook because that is what they had on the shelf along with Hornady bullets, CCI primers and IMR powders.

Tim

Blacksmith
05-24-2014, 01:09 AM
This brings up and interesting and scary point that I've noticed in recent posts. People who don't understand the complexity of what and why happens inside the case generally can reload quite successfully as long as they follow the manuals like a cookbook. The problem has become that none of the powders listed in the manual were available and questions like "can I create a substitute load using a burn rate chart?" start to crop up. That's when bad stuff starts happening.

Had a nOObe reloader on another forum made up a series of rounds for testing with increasing charges. First 10 went OK. First shot in the next group flattened the primer, continued to flatten the primers in the remaining nine. Only stopped stopped his testing when the first round in the next group completely blew the primer out of the case. He had pictures of the cases when he asked why it was happening. Got a start point on the internet and went up from there. Enough people jumped on him to reign him in I hope.