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NavyVet1959
05-17-2014, 05:26 AM
Has anyone tried resizing one of the .41 mag rounds for 10mm? I was looking a heavy 10mm mold and the choices were not so great, so I wondered if maybe I should try resizing a bullet cast from a .41 mag mold.

What's the most that you've ever resized in a single trip through a resizer die? I figure that from .410" to .401" should be doable. Anyone tried going from .429" or .430" to .401" in a single step? I tried going from .452" to .401" in a single step and my press just laughed at me. :)

Tatume
05-17-2014, 06:40 AM
It's not hard to size 0.008" but make sure your bullet is lubed first. Run it through the lubrisizer at a fairly large size, then run the bullet through the desired sizer with the lube grooves fully filled. Otherwise you lube grooves will be eliminated in the sizing process.

Big Boomer
05-17-2014, 12:03 PM
I have some 300 gr. cast boolits that were originally cast for a .45-70 rifle (.459 or .460) that were swaged down to .452 so they could be used in a .45 Colt. I didn't do that work - the guy that cast them sized them down for me. The boolits look fine ... you can't tell by looking at them that they were swaged down to .452. Big Boomer

NavyVet1959
05-17-2014, 12:11 PM
It's not hard to size 0.008" but make sure your bullet is lubed first. Run it through the lubrisizer at a fairly large size, then run the bullet through the desired sizer with the lube grooves fully filled. Otherwise you lube grooves will be eliminated in the sizing process.

I'm using the Lee lube and sizing kit for my resizing. Since I'm also using the Lee tumble lube bullet molds, I suspect that there won't be much left of the lube grooves afterwards.

Tatume
05-17-2014, 12:27 PM
I'm using the Lee lube and sizing kit for my resizing. Since I'm also using the Lee tumble lube bullet molds, I suspect that there won't be much left of the lube grooves afterwards.

Yep, you might be right about that. It may be time to either buy a new mold or a lubrisizer.

Good Cheer
05-17-2014, 12:28 PM
Just did some .408's down to .401 this morning to use in the fast twist forty percussion rifle. Used lanolin-olive oil-beeswax loob. Didn't feel like it was even being squeezed.

NavyVet1959
05-17-2014, 01:37 PM
Yep, you might be right about that. It may be time to either buy a new mold or a lubrisizer.

I've been planning on switching to powder coating my bullets, so losing the tumble lube grooves wouldn't probably be that big of a deal. I was thinking that I would wait until I had used up all of the Lee Liquid Alox, but with a bottle of LLA coming with each bullet resizing die, it's going to take *forever*. :) All the heavy 10mm bullets are made by companies that charge quite a bit more than Lee and I figured that if I can resize them down a bit, I will have more flexibility on my mold choices. I also like the way that the Lee system pushes from the bottom of the bullet and thus does not need a new nose punch for every nose profile that you have.

JonB_in_Glencoe
05-17-2014, 01:43 PM
I've been planning on switching to powder coating my bullets, so losing the tumble lube grooves wouldn't probably be that big of a deal. ...snip

I was thinking that exact same thing when I read the OP. I have a 255gr TL Ranch Dog RF mold...that'd make for a nice heavy powder coated 10mm :)

but seriously the Lee 41 cal TL boolit, would be the cat's meow for a heavy 10mm PC'd boolit.

NavyVet1959
05-17-2014, 09:11 PM
I was thinking that exact same thing when I read the OP. I have a 255gr TL Ranch Dog RF mold...that'd make for a nice heavy powder coated 10mm :)

but seriously the Lee 41 cal TL boolit, would be the cat's meow for a heavy 10mm PC'd boolit.

Yeah, at 210 gr, that should equate to some pretty good penetration due to the sectional density. It's a SWC and by the time you resize it, it will be a bit closer to just a TC design. :)

If I had a Lee .410 lube and resizing kit, I might even try seeing if a .44 mag bullet could go down to .41 mag and then go from there to 10mm.

dakotashooter2
05-19-2014, 09:55 AM
I have been sizing down bullets dropped out of a .41 RCBS 210 gr mold that I had hollow pointed. they are sized to .401 and weigh in at 198 gr. Still plenty of lube groove and are one of the most accurate bullets I shoot out of my .40. I have had no problem sizing them in one step.

NavyVet1959
05-19-2014, 04:52 PM
Just for the 'ell of it, I tried resizing the Lee TL430-240-SWC (240 gr, .430") to .401 in a single step. The bullets were cast with a 50:50 wheelweight to pure lead alloy and lubed with mink oil. They made it about half way into the resizing die even with me putting a lot of pressure on the arm of the press. I then took a rod and knocked the bullet back through the bottom opening of the die. The lube grooves had completely disappeared on the part of the bullet that had gone into the die and the redistribution of the lead was apparently well on its way to making a hollow base bullet. :)

I didn't particularly expect to be able to resize to that great of a change in diameter in a single step, but I was curious how far it would make it.

NavyVet1959
06-01-2014, 04:15 AM
Well, I got my order from Midway in today.

TEST #1
In one experiment, I took a 240 gr Lee TL SWC for the .44 mag, ran it through the .430 sizer, then ran it through the .410 sizer, and then through the .401 sizer. The 240 gr mold was dropping bullets at around 249 gr with the 50:50 WW/Pb alloy I was using. Ended up having to use the .401 sizer's stem on the .430 so that the lead would have some place to go. End result was that it moved the lead to the base of the bullet and then cut off a small 15.1 gr donut as I finished pushing the bullet through the sizer. Of course, there were no lube grooves after this. Since what was left of the bullets was around 230 gr, I looked up a .45ACP load in my reloading manuals and decided on 5.1 gr of Red Dot. Tossed a bit of mink oil on the bullet as a lube, loaded it in a 10mm case with the 5.1 gr of Red Dot, and took it to the garage to shoot it. Ended up with a little bit of primer flow into the rectangular firing pin hole in my G29, but it wasn't any worse than I get with the load that I current shoot in that gun. The sizing from .430 to .410 was the most difficult. I really needed a longer arm on my press. In one attempt, I ended up having to take the sizer die and stem to my arbor press to get enough force to make it work.

TEST #2
In the next experiment, I cast a few bullets with the 210 Lee TL SWC mold for the .41 mag and then resized it directly to .401. They were dropping out at an average over 5 bullets of 215.72 gr with the 50:50 WW/Pb alloy I was using. Still used mink oil for the resizing and bullet lube because it was convenient and I didn't want to wait for the Alox to dry. Some of the bullets were noticeably more difficult to resize than others. If I'm going to continue this, I really need to get a cheater bar / pipe that will fit snugly over the RCBS's handle. Since it wasn't an extreme resizing, it didn't result in a donut of lead being sheared off the bullet and as such, the bullets weighed the same after resizing. I don't remember if the tumble lube grooves were smeared a bit flat or if they completely disappeared. I used the same 5.1 gr of Red Dot for firing this round. I did not notice any less primer flow on this one than on the previous one.

No chrono results on any of these tests since it was late at night and I was shooting in my garage.

CONCLUSIONS:

Resizing a .44 mag bullet to 10mm is a pain and since you lose lead in the process, it's not very practical. After losing the lead donut, it ended up weighing basically the same as the .41 mag bullet.
Resizing a .41 mag bullet to 10mm is a viable option (albeit a little bit of work) and if you want a heavy 10mm bullet for hunting or whatever and you can't find a 10mm mold in that weight, then it might be worth it.

JonB_in_Glencoe
06-01-2014, 10:06 AM
You might want to use a powder that's slower than red dot for Heavies in 10mm, I'd suggest blue dot.

Also, if you were to go into larger production, instead of a longer handle on the press and the energy needed from your arm, I'd buy another 401 die and polish it out to around .407 or whatever your midway point is.

my 2¢

NavyVet1959
06-02-2014, 03:47 PM
You might want to use a powder that's slower than red dot for Heavies in 10mm, I'd suggest blue dot.

Also, if you were to go into larger production, instead of a longer handle on the press and the energy needed from your arm, I'd buy another 401 die and polish it out to around .407 or whatever your midway point is.


I just used Red Dot since that was what I already had loaded in my press since it was what I had been using in my normal 10mm loads. I figured that the case capacity was close enough to .45 ACP considering the higher pressure rating of the 10mm that I could get away with just using the .45ACP reloading data. It worked and it let me feel the difference between what I normally shoot and what this one fells like. It was a data point that I needed to fill anyway. I have a 5 lb container of Blue Dot, but I haven't tried it yet.

NavyVet1959
09-28-2015, 12:33 AM
Finally got around to taking some photos of the results... After tumble lubing with alox, letting it "dry", and dusting with talc to reduce stickiness, they came out looking like this:

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/lee-tl410-210-swc-resized-10mm-1-320w.jpg

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/lee-tl410-210-swc-resized-10mm-2-320w.jpg

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/lee-tl410-210-swc-resized-10mm-3-320w.jpg

bowenrd
09-28-2015, 09:59 AM
One problem you may have is seating a bullet that heavy. Seating deep enough to fit magazine will likely bulge the case to the point it will not chamber.

osteodoc08
09-28-2015, 10:29 AM
There are plenty of 200gr WFN molds available for the 10mm that are proven to work. Why reinvent the wheel?

as mentioned, bullet seating depth is going to be an issue with longer boolits.

Red Dot is not gonna be a suitable powder, you need slower. Longshot, AA#9, Blue Dot should all be suitable for the heavier loads.

NavyVet1959
09-28-2015, 10:47 AM
One problem you may have is seating a bullet that heavy. Seating deep enough to fit magazine will likely bulge the case to the point it will not chamber.

I do not remember have a problem with this when I tried it back on 6/1/2014. I haven't done anything with it since then though. I was looking for something on my reloading bench and came across those bullets, so I decided to update this thread with a post of some photos of what the .41 mag bullet looks like after being resized for a 10mm.

NavyVet1959
09-28-2015, 10:52 AM
There are plenty of 200gr WFN molds available for the 10mm that are proven to work. Why reinvent the wheel?

Because it was a cheap experiment to do... Haven't you ever tried something, just to see if it was possible even if it wasn't practical?

Besides, sometimes you get interesting results when you reinvent the wheel...

Texas A&M Square Wheel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgbWu8zJubo

osteodoc08
09-28-2015, 12:01 PM
That explains a lot about those A&M folks. Bwahahahaha

country gent
09-28-2015, 12:37 PM
One thing to look at is most sizing dies have a short steep angle for squeezing the bullet down just the recomennded .002-.003. A lee type die with a gradual swage taper of 1 1/2" -2" long to the sizing ring in the die may help alot woth accuracy and force required. A good high polish and very gradual lead should help alot. What you are wanting to do is more a swaging operation than a sizing one due to metal being moved.

bdicki
09-28-2015, 12:55 PM
Before there was a 10mm I picked up a swage die for sizing 41 mag bullets down to .401 for the 38-40 for a friend of mine. I swaged some 41 mag jacketed bullets down to .401 before I sent it to him. They had a little skirt at the base when done. The 10 mm eliminated the need for it.

blikseme300
09-28-2015, 10:23 PM
That explains a lot about those A&M folks. Bwahahahaha

Like these:

150008

150009

osteodoc08
09-30-2015, 12:16 AM
Like these:

150008

150009

Absolutely love it. Gonna save those to harass my A&M friends.

dudel
09-30-2015, 09:03 AM
I'm using the Lee lube and sizing kit for my resizing. Since I'm also using the Lee tumble lube bullet molds, I suspect that there won't be much left of the lube grooves afterwards.

Maybe try powder coating? I seem to recall some Boolits that had no lube grooves at all. Intended for PC.

NavyVet1959
09-30-2015, 10:32 AM
Maybe try powder coating? I seem to recall some Boolits that had no lube grooves at all. Intended for PC.

After powder coating and resizing, those don't have have much in the way of lube grooves either. :) All my molds are Lee and they don't make any without lube grooves.

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/lee-tl410-214-swc-resized-10mm-powder-coated-320w.jpg

I tried mixing a few of the HF powders and ended up with that funky mottled color.

shooter93
10-01-2015, 06:30 PM
I shoot a 200 grain bullet in 10 mm around 1,000 fps. I don't have seating depth trouble so I doubt the extra 10 grains you have will cause any problems. I use Unique powder.

NavyVet1959
10-16-2015, 03:02 AM
I shoot a 200 grain bullet in 10 mm around 1,000 fps. I don't have seating depth trouble so I doubt the extra 10 grains you have will cause any problems. I use Unique powder.

With a 50:50 Pb:WW alloy, they work out to be around 215-216 gr on average. Cast a few the other night, resized them without any lube, powdercoated them (ASBB *2), and then resized them again. Even without lube on the bare lead, they resized easily.

Lloyd Smale
10-16-2015, 07:03 AM
Ive done it on my star with conventions lube grove bullets and still have enough grove for plenty of lube. I wouldn't try something like water dropped or lineotype bullets though but ww bullets will size down without any undue stress.

NavyVet1959
10-16-2015, 12:07 PM
Ive done it on my star with conventions lube grove bullets and still have enough grove for plenty of lube. I wouldn't try something like water dropped or lineotype bullets though but ww bullets will size down without any undue stress.

I'm using a 50:50 Pb:WW bullet that is water dropped (just so that it cools quicker) and it still resizes easily.

NavyVet1959
10-18-2015, 01:38 AM
Here's mine loaded... 8.4 gr of Longshot, 1.2660" OAL, used Lee TL410-210-SWC resized to 0.401", supposedly 1237 fps / 747 ft-lbs in a G20 barrel. I test fired one in a G29 barrel (without a mag inserted, just in case if blew up). Felt a bit snappier than my normal load. :)

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/lee-tl410-210-swc-resized-10mm-loaded.jpg
http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/lee-tl410-210-swc-resized-10mm-loaded-320w.jpg
They average 216 gr each.

Like I've previously mentioned, I use .40SW brass for my 10mm loads...

Couldn't find my brass afterwards. It's probably in low Earth orbit. :)

Seriously though, it's *somewhere* in my garage...

And on a more positive note, my bullet trap stopped it... :)

So, I'm thinking... New SD EDC load? You never know when you might end up with 3 or 4 bad guys standing all in single file, right? :)