How fast Lee 405 HB

[armednfree]

I was going to load the Hornady 325 grain FTX in my Rossi Rio Grande. After looking at all you have to do it appears to be a big PITA. So, I have the 405 HB mold.

If I cast these and tumble lube them, two coats, how fast can I push them? I have data to 1700 FPS with IMR 3031 and 4064 in trapdoor level loads, and to 1900fps in lever action loads. I can live with 1700 as the possibility of shooting a deer at even 100 yards is rather small where I hunt. Still, I zero it 4 inches high at 100 and I'm MPBR all the way to 180 yards.

Not that I'm a big believer in the energy figures so highly spoken of, that 405 grain bullet arrives at 200 yards with 1200 fps and 1300 fpe. That has a T.K.O of 45.

Of course all those numbers seem like someone pulled a formula out of their hind quarters, nobody is going to tell me that a 400 grain 45 bullet hitting a deer at 1200fps will not kill a deer dead as all heck and quickly. The original 405 military load, from what I read. was 1200 fps at the muzzle. The criteria for a load in that era was not to be able to kill a human. but to be able to kill a horse.

But, how fast can I push them lubed like that?

[NVScouter]

I shot LEE 340s and 450s in my Rio Grande and @ 1900FPS the 340s over 3031 were nasty. My friend shot two rounds and swore to never pick up that rifle again. Just food for thought.

HB mold with TL I'd start low and see when accuracy goes to pot with that base. Solid base I'd say 1700fps is reasonable with TL but not ideal. I havent had great luck with it except as a lube addative or second coating.

[Larry Gibson]

Only way to know with your bullet, alloy, rifle and load is to try it. I've shot a lot of those Lee 405 HBs in my own TDs and they hold up very well up through 1400 - 1500 fps when cast of 16-1 alloy and medium burning powders are used (RL7 - 4064). In my bolt action 450-400-70 (45-70) Accuracy falls off in the 1500 + range. This is probably due to that bullet having the HB and I did not go to a harder alloy. A 16-1 alloyed 405HB will kill every bit as good at 1400 - 1500 fps as a harder cast one at 1700 fps.

Two good coats of LLA should be sufficient. Make sure you let the first coat completely dry before doing the 2nd coat. Also don't apply the coats to thick. Two lighter dry coats is a lot better than a thick gooey mess.

Larry Gibson

[rhead]

I can only give data to around 1450 feet. It is very effective when pan lubed two coats of LLA should prevent leading I don't know about accuracy. Make a dummy round with no sizing. If it will chamber easily that will likely be the size you want.

My shoulder got tired of the project at 1450 fps.

[armednfree]

OK, Hodgdon is showing this:

IMR 4064 .458" 2.540" 46.0gr 1,534 17,900 CUP

What's the consensus on that?

[roharmon]

I had good results with IMR 4064, but prefer 40 grains of IRM 4198 with the 405HB sized to .460.

[armednfree]

Yeah, I'm pretty much hanging with IMR 4064 or 3031. I have 16 pounds of 4064 and 8 of 3031. Older stuff, in the metal cans

[roharmon]

I hear ya. When I use 4064 I load 49 grains, but still size to .460.

[Bigslug]

I can't tell you anything about the properties of LLA, but I would bet that in a light lever action, your shoulder will quit before your lube does.

The most thoroughly destroyed milk jugs I've ever witnessed the demise of were shot with flat-nosed 405's travelling in the 1400-1600fps range, and I had to dig through about a foot of the sand berm behind to collect them. The Lee HB doesn't make quite as big a splash, but it will solve your deer problem. Keep in mind that this is an exact copy of the 1873 military bullet. Havahart doesn't see the need in today's market to make a jumbo sized trap for keeping bison out of your petunias. This very projectile is a big part of the why.

Load load them to your comfort threshold first, then tinker for accuracy, and consider trajectory as a minor concern for your area. You can safely ignore all the stuff about TKO and FPE with this round. A deer won't know the difference between 1200 and 1700fps any more than a 1945 Hiroshima resident could have told you the difference between kilotons and megatons.

[armednfree]

"A deer won't know the difference between 1200 and 1700fps any more than a 1945 Hiroshima resident could have told you the difference between kilotons and megatons. "

Now that is a good analogy.

[roharmon]

I agree Bigslug. Loading to 1600 fps is working for me regardless of powder used. I think the key for me is sizing to .460;accurate, no leading and comfortable.