Load Development 45LC

[abearir]

Hello

Anyone using the Lee C452-255_RF for hunting?

My plan is to try it for deer over about 9.0g of Unique in both a Ruger and Win 94.

My alloy would be 50/50 WW PB with a touch of tin added.

Any thoughts?

[RobS]

If it's accurate the combo you have should work just fine. Personally I would use a tougher alloy with a bit of tin if needed for mold fillout and turn up the velocity with some 2400.

[Outpost75]

My experience has been that #2400 does not burn well at standard pressures with 255-260-grain bullets in the. 45 Colt and that the amount of unburned powder can cause function problems until you get to "Ruger Only" loads.

Your 50-50 Pb-WW alloy with a small addition of tin, not more than 2%, to aid fillout, is correct, and 9 grains of Unique is a good full charge load, about 1000 fps. Effective and very appropriate.

[NVScouter]

I liked R7 and 4227 for us in both. 7" barrel was mostly burnt but in the 4" I had some I unburnt powder. But the carbine performance was better than my magnum powders.

[Rompin Ruger]

anyone tried the "li'l Gun" with heavier bullets in the 280-285 gr SWC configuration?

I did some 290's that I bought as FB 15 BHN, but really weighed 285... tried with Longshot and got some leading... I'm told that the "Li'l Gun" is lower pressure w/ higher velocity. Anyone use both to confirm or deny?

[RobS]

anyone tried the "li'l Gun" with heavier bullets in the 280-285 gr SWC configuration?

I did some 290's that I bought as FB 15 BHN, but really weighed 285... tried with Longshot and got some leading... I'm told that the "Li'l Gun" is lower pressure w/ higher velocity. Anyone use both to confirm or deny?

Lil'gun is a powder that is in the class of H110 but is a bit faster and not as touchy about ignition however its not a powder to down load either. Page 13-15

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/pdf/hl%20246partial.pdf

[smokeywolf]

I settled on 8.2 grns. of Unique under an Ideal 454190 50-50% COWW/SOWW in a 1920ish Colt SAA.

[Rompin Ruger]

My apology to ABEarir,

Perhaps I encroached on your thread with my question. Thanks to RobS. Yes, I have several articles using the Li'l Gun and see it's in line with the 4227, H110. I've used the 4227 in .44 Mag in the mid weights of 240-250. Was curious if the rhetoric is true that Longshot is a higher pressure (more recoil/flash) than the "li'l gun" in similar weight boolits.

I'll back on out now. Sorry ABEARIR... Mia copa

[leftiye]

Blue Dot will bridge the gap you have in powders. It is capable of 1200 fps and more in the Ruger, and will burn well at lower pressures.

[taco650]

Was curious if the rhetoric is true that Longshot is a higher pressure (more recoil/flash) than the "li'l gun" in similar weight boolits.

From research I've done, Longshot is similar speed to 2400. I plan to use it in my 44mag in a Ruger SB 7.5". I know, not a 45 Colt but close ;-)

[Pb2au]

Although I am a fan of 2400, the OP's load should be a solid performer as intended. The suggestions for 4227 and blue dot also can play nicely. What RobS said is the most important. If it is an accurate load and the shooter does their part is the key.

[44MAG#1]

"From research I've done, Longshot is similar speed to 2400."

Where did you come up with that? What reloading book did you use? A burn rate chart? Very curious to know.

[abearir]

My apology to ABEarir,

Perhaps I encroached on your thread with my question. Thanks to RobS. Yes, I have several articles using the Li'l Gun and see it's in line with the 4227, H110. I've used the 4227 in .44 Mag in the mid weights of 240-250. Was curious if the rhetoric is true that Longshot is a higher pressure (more recoil/flash) than the "li'l gun" in similar weight boolits.

I'll back on out now. Sorry ABEARIR... Mia copa

No by all means continue. I enjoy reading the responses. I always learn something.

I'm blessed to have several powders on hand to play with. PB, Unique, 2400, 296, 110. I just have the most of unique.

[RobS]

From research I've done, Longshot is similar speed to 2400. I plan to use it in my 44mag in a Ruger SB 7.5". I know, not a 45 Colt but close ;-)

Not Quite...............Longshot is closer to HS6 and considering this HS6 is slower than Longshot. 2400 is quite a bit slower than even HS6 and is a powder that will take more of a charge and can yield higher velocities safely vs HS6 or Longshot. Reloading manuals will show the difference as will online reloading data from either Alliant or Hodgdon.

Although with 240 grain bullets and lighter Longshot can be used nicely with some rather decent velocities however 2400 will yield, as I said, higher velocities with equal pressures.

www.hodgdon.com
www.alliantpowder.com

[DougGuy]

That 255gr RF will work fine for deer, and if your Ruger revolver has a two-digit prefix in the serial number you can reliably use the Ruger Only load data published. 9.0gr of Unique is almost a cowboy load, that boolit/cartridge is capable of MUCH more in the guns you are shooting it in. If it has a three digit prefix it is built on the medium frame, and can take tier 2 pressures with 23,000psi (45 ACP +P) as a pressure ceiling. it would help to know which model you are loading for.

Also, check your cylinder throats, tight throats can cause leading and poor accuracy and really throw a wrench into the works when you are trying to develop an accurate load. A good way to test, try pushing the boolit you want to load into the cylinder from the front. If it won't go, chances are your cylinder needs to be "dimensionally corrected" to .4525" throats to accurately shoot .452" boolits without leading. This is very typical of big bore Rugers, especially the .45s, and I do a few of them every week, they shoot much better when sized .0005" over boolit diameter.

50/50 with 2% tin added is the bees knees in my Rugers, both the .44 and .45 took an instant liking to that alloy. Although I use the C452-300-RF boolit, you should have great luck with the 255gr and loaded properly you will likely not recover one in a deer, they will go slam through, leaving the animal to bleed out both sides and a shot to the vitals with one of those RF boolits will ensure they don't go far.

[osteodoc08]

The OP's load will work fine for its intended audience.

I've used Lil Gun quite a bit in my 357/41/45C and do get rather impressive velocity. I've never noticed any forcing cone erosion. It is best served using LilGun with heavy for caliber projectiles.

Longshot in my experience is considerably faster than 2400.

Taco- I see youre in Lagrange. My brother has been killing the stipers and hybrids on West Point lately. If you fish, get in on the action.

[.45Cole]

abearir=You're on the right track. 9.some grains is a great load for 250+ gr boolits, and my go to load for powerful, accurate, loads. It's dirty, but you'll have something to do on Saturday night now. I haven't used that combo on game, but i wouldn't hesitate on shots within range (mpbr). IMHO h110 needs to be pushed to the limits to work well, like heavy boolits cruising 1100+fps or it is very hard to burn worth a hoot.

[rexherring]

Yup, It'll work if you do your job. I've shot deer with basically the same load. A 255 RCBS with 10 grs of AA#5 and have not recovered a slug yet. Puts them down quickly if you have a good hit. Are there better powder/bullet combinations? Probably but it should work fine.

[mj2evans]

I tried 2400 and 255 Lee RNFP in a Rossi '92. Lots of unburned powder (I worked up to 16.5g). Accuracy was not great - vertical stringing I assume due to velocity changes from uneven burn. 7.0 W231 was mild and shot well and 12.0 Blue Dot was decent. Trying Unique now (held off a while on Unique, I hate how it meters).

[taco650]

"From research I've done, Longshot is similar speed to 2400."

Where did you come up with that? What reloading book did you use? A burn rate chart? Very curious to know.

Online burn rate charts. I bought it because the GS I was at had it and not 2400. I'm not saying its a direct substitute like you can get away with on H-110 & W296, just similar. I haven't used it much but do know 16gr under my 316299 copy work good in my 303 British.

[taco650]

Taco- I see youre in Lagrange. My brother has been killing the stipers and hybrids on West Point lately. If you fish, get in on the action.

No time for fishing Doc but WP Lake is a hot spot. No wonder the Bassmaster's tournament comes here every year. Talk about some blinged out boats!

Sorry for the hijack!

[1bluehorse]

Hello

Anyone using the Lee C452-255_RF for hunting?

My plan is to try it for deer over about 9.0g of Unique in both a Ruger and Win 94.

My alloy would be 50/50 WW PB with a touch of tin added.

Any thoughts?

I've shot that bullet (260gr from my mold) more than any other in my 45 colt Rugers and Rossi Rifles..it does quite well out to around 100yds...I've not shot it much over that distance so no experience...the 9gr. Unique load is my "walkin around" (and my favorite) load....accurate and nice to shoot...and a hair over 1000fps in my Rugers...If I feel I want a bit more I go to 2400 at 18-18.5gr, picks up a couple hundred fps.... and 25-26gr of H110 will get you over 1300 in a 5 1/2in barrel along with a lot of recoil and impressive fire-ball.....I don't and have not shot a whole lot of those....I'm currently trying for a accurate load with H4227 as I happened into an 8lb jug of it and expect it to fall in with 2400 performance wise....I've only tried a few "expeditionary" rounds at 21gr, I am not impressed...yet.....it meters well but is one strange looking powder though....

[Rompin Ruger]

http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html

Shows Longshot at # 53 on the hit parade of burn rates and Alliant 2400 at #55. I think I have a pound or 2 of 2400 made by someone else (OLD) , but it's in my powder locker and it doesn't really matter...

then comes Hodgdon lil gun (62); Hodgdon H110(63); Win 296(64); IMR 4227(65) & H4227 at 66.

[lonewelder]

That load will work fine.keep in mind the original colt load was said to be able to shoot through a horse.

[Wolfer]

I've ran a whole bunch of lee 255 RF thru my new vaquero with 8.8 gr of unique. My most accurate load. I've killed about everything legal in MO. with it and have a lot of confidence in it if I do my part.
My part being I don't shoot unless I know exactly where the boolit is going to go. While I've never shot a horse I have no doubt it'll penetrate one broadside.

I've never had a deer go very far but blood trails are really scimpy as a general rule. I do my best to hole both lungs and break a shoulder if possible.

I've switched to the 452-424 with a small HP for deer hunting. I get better blood trails but the end result is about the same.

The lee is the most accurate boolit or bullet I've shot in my gun. It'll punch a 45 cal hole thru small game with minimal meat damage. I use it considerable on grouse while elk hunting. You can literally eat right up to the hole.

Woody Roberts

[Rompin Ruger]

Woody, that line, "eat right up to the hole" made me laugh! Seems I've heard that, probably out in MT when I lived there, cause that was their brand of humor, but I can't recall for sure!

Personally, for deer, I think that 255 would be sweet! I'm looking at the 280-290 range at hotter loads for wild hogs in TX this Sept... but first, I have to get to the smitty to get some cylinder throat measurements, bore and FC casting and see what's really needed before I go too far. I bought that 45-270-SAA mold written up that kicks out 280-285 w/ WW, but again, till I see what my 2 Ruger's are spitting out, I have to hold off. Appt with a gun smith this Tue...

Finally!

[44MAG#1]

Online burn rate charts. I bought it because the GS I was at had it and not 2400. I'm not saying its a direct substitute like you can get away with on H-110 & W296, just similar. I haven't used it much but do know 16gr under my 316299 copy work good in my 303 British.

Well, I guess you know. I go by loading data and can tell you that there is a lot of difference between them. On average it is faster than HS-6.
Have at it and let us know.

[abearir]

That 255gr RF will work fine for deer, and if your Ruger revolver has a two-digit prefix in the serial number you can reliably use the Ruger Only load data published. 9.0gr of Unique is almost a cowboy load, that boolit/cartridge is capable of MUCH more in the guns you are shooting it in. If it has a three digit prefix it is built on the medium frame, and can take tier 2 pressures with 23,000psi (45 ACP +P) as a pressure ceiling. it would help to know which model you are loading for.

Also, check your cylinder throats, tight throats can cause leading and poor accuracy and really throw a wrench into the works when you are trying to develop an accurate load. A good way to test, try pushing the boolit you want to load into the cylinder from the front. If it won't go, chances are your cylinder needs to be "dimensionally corrected" to .4525" throats to accurately shoot .452" boolits without leading. This is very typical of big bore Rugers, especially the .45s, and I do a few of them every week, they shoot much better when sized .0005" over boolit diameter.

50/50 with 2% tin added is the bees knees in my Rugers, both the .44 and .45 took an instant liking to that alloy. Although I use the C452-300-RF boolit, you should have great luck with the 255gr and loaded properly you will likely not recover one in a deer, they will go slam through, leaving the animal to bleed out both sides and a shot to the vitals with one of those RF boolits will ensure they don't go far.

The gun appears to be the standard large frame. SN# 48-59xxx

As to the throats, I do believe the cylinder should be reamed. It mikes just a tad smaller than the barrel. I asume your a smith? Is this a job a layman can do with the correct reamer without a lathe? I looked quick at my Brownells catalog but didnt see a cylinder reamer listed by size. You have any suggestions or part numbers?

Smiths (real ones) around here are few. The only local one I know, takes a act of God to finish a simle job in under a year. I'm inclind to give it a go myself. FWIW Im a retired ASE Master tech so I'm "fair" with a tool or two.

[Wolfer]

If you go to Beartooth bullets and click on the articles Marshal has one titled ( ruger, America's best do it yourself project ) or something like that.

Details and pictures on honing cylinders to size.

[RobS]

The gun appears to be the standard large frame. SN# 48-59xxx

As to the throats, I do believe the cylinder should be reamed. It mikes just a tad smaller than the barrel. I asume your a smith? Is this a job a layman can do with the correct reamer without a lathe? I looked quick at my Brownells catalog but didnt see a cylinder reamer listed by size. You have any suggestions or part numbers?

Smiths (real ones) around here are few. The only local one I know, takes a act of God to finish a simle job in under a year. I'm inclind to give it a go myself. FWIW Im a retired ASE Master tech so I'm "fair" with a tool or two.

Reaming cylinders is quite easy just use enough cutting oil and take your time.
http://www.gunblast.com/Brownells_Reamer.htm
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/barrel-blanks-tools/reamers/throating-reamers/revolver-cylinder-throating-reamer-45-cal-throat-reamer-sku513-000-001-7700-19345.aspx

I also have the throat pilot pack as well.

[taco650]

If you go to Beartooth bullets and click on the articles Marshal has one titled ( ruger, America's best do it yourself project ) or something like that.

Details and pictures on honing cylinders to size.

I have read this article several times and it's a good one. Very practical and easy to understand.

[DougGuy]

The gun appears to be the standard large frame. SN# 48-59xxx

As to the throats, I do believe the cylinder should be reamed. It mikes just a tad smaller than the barrel. I asume your a smith? Is this a job a layman can do with the correct reamer without a lathe? I looked quick at my Brownells catalog but didnt see a cylinder reamer listed by size. You have any suggestions or part numbers?

Smiths (real ones) around here are few. The only local one I know, takes a act of God to finish a simle job in under a year. I'm inclind to give it a go myself. FWIW Im a retired ASE Master tech so I'm "fair" with a tool or two.

The throats should be the larger dimension, and everything should gradually get smaller as the boolit travels toward the muzzle, there should be no restrictions anywhere. Think of it as a funnel of sorts, from cylinder to muzzle the boolit's journey should follow the shape of the funnel, with the boolit being swaged gradually smaller by the forcing cone, then the bore, this way it will seal in the bore at every part along the way.

I was a smith, until the FFL costs and regulations got so stupid that they wanted you to pay for the privilege of handling a firearm in order to service it. These days I only take in cylinders to work on, mostly as a convenience to shooters since cylindersmith stopped doing them. It puts a little change in my pocket to cover the cost of the tools, but you couldn't retire off it. I do several Ruger cylinders a week most weeks, and if it helps someone else get a problem taken care of, an issue out of the way to promote better shooting, I'm all for it.

[Rompin Ruger]

DougGuy,

That's pretty cool explanation. I waited 3+ weeks for a smitty buddy to work me into his schedule to do exactly that: Check my cylinder throats, forcing cone and barrel. I'm getting some leading on a "new to me" .45 Colt NMBH in 7.5" SS. I also bought a new NMBH in 5.5 blue. Both cylinders, I can take cast bullets, what were sold to me as .452 bullets, and SNAP them into the throats on 5 of 6 of the hole in my cylinder...but ONE of them, the 5th one I tried, wouldn't go and I would have had to BEAT it into the throat---working from the muzzle end of the cylinder of course.

So we're going to check them with his funky pronged cylinder mic...I also want him to cerro cast the bore/forcing cone...he's hesitant...says that he often has to beat the tar outa the casting to get it out...said it happens often enough in his 30 yrs of smithing, that he hates doing them...doh... Brownell claims they fall out in 30 min if you do it right...but his experience over the years is very different. :0

I don't want to pay to have the danged barrel taken off, but we'll see Tuesday what we see...

Anxious to get the gun squared away so I can start casting my 45-270-SAA bullets in my new RCBS mold and get back to shooting! Without all the leading I was getting. Going to try Donnie's HI-Tek coating and need to know what size to size the finished slugs...

Great thing about sites like this is that you loose your virginity and learn all sorts of things you never USED to know you needed to know! And now that you know, danged if those things don't end up causing problems you never had before you knew!

Odd how that works! LOL:-P

We'll see.

[TXGunNut]

I like a bit heavier boolit (RD454-290) but I'm sure you've noticed by now the 45 Colt is a very versatile and forgiving cartridge. Enjoy!

[osteodoc08]

http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html

Shows Longshot at # 53 on the hit parade of burn rates and Alliant 2400 at #55. I think I have a pound or 2 of 2400 made by someone else (OLD) , but it's in my powder locker and it doesn't really matter...

then comes Hodgdon lil gun (62); Hodgdon H110(63); Win 296(64); IMR 4227(65) & H4227 at 66.

Burn charts are relative. You need to look at charge weight and velocity using the same boolit and load configuration to get a real appreciable measure.

[GSaltzman]

20 grains of 4227 with a Fed 150 primer is very accurate load in all three of my Ruger 45 colt Blackhawks. Very much so in my Flattop convertible. Leaves a little residue but for the accuracy I can deal with it. Using a 260 454424. Figure it will shoot through anything I need too.

[DougGuy]

DougGuy,

That's pretty cool explanation. I waited 3+ weeks for a smitty buddy to work me into his schedule to do exactly that: Check my cylinder throats, forcing cone and barrel. I'm getting some leading on a "new to me" .45 Colt NMBH in 7.5" SS. I also bought a new NMBH in 5.5 blue. Both cylinders, I can take cast bullets, what were sold to me as .452 bullets, and SNAP them into the throats on 5 of 6 of the hole in my cylinder...but ONE of them, the 5th one I tried, wouldn't go and I would have had to BEAT it into the throat---working from the muzzle end of the cylinder of course.

So we're going to check them with his funky pronged cylinder mic...I also want him to cerro cast the bore/forcing cone...he's hesitant...says that he often has to beat the tar outa the casting to get it out...said it happens often enough in his 30 yrs of smithing, that he hates doing them...doh... Brownell claims they fall out in 30 min if you do it right...but his experience over the years is very different. :0

I don't want to pay to have the danged barrel taken off, but we'll see Tuesday what we see...

Anxious to get the gun squared away so I can start casting my 45-270-SAA bullets in my new RCBS mold and get back to shooting! Without all the leading I was getting. Going to try Donnie's HI-Tek coating and need to know what size to size the finished slugs...

Great thing about sites like this is that you loose your virginity and learn all sorts of things you never USED to know you needed to know! And now that you know, danged if those things don't end up causing problems you never had before you knew!

Odd how that works! LOL:-P

We'll see.

The reason he has to beat the castings out, is because the barrel is wasp-waisted where it threads into the frame. So you got this cast piece of metal that is closely encased by the barrel, and it's shaped like an hourglass. Won't travel in either direction without a fight. Then when it does come out, it's worthless to measure from because it's swaged down now.

You can do the easiest test at home with a cleaning kit. Get the barrel clean and dry, patch a plastic or brass jag into the bore really tightly. Push it down the bore and feel the amount of resistance it takes to keep it moving. (Oddly enough, you can feel the "ripples" in a .45 barrel that are on the inside behind the roll marked warning!) If the jag gets hard to push through the part where it's threaded into the frame, that's the thread constriction you are feeling. If it is only a bit harder to push, you can maybe firelap that one out. If it stops, and you have to nearly destroy it to beat it through, that's a .003" constriction at the very least. Those, if you call Ruger, they should send you a shipping label and fix it on their dime, that's below SAAMI specs for the bore diameter, and they guarantee their pistols to be within SAAMI specs.

If you want the cylinders fixed, send me a PM or go to the facebook page in my signature and read up on it.

[Cowboy T]

That load will work fine.keep in mind the original colt load was said to be able to shoot through a horse.

Actually, it was a cow, and yes, it went from port to starboard. These were the original US Army tests on cattle cadavers from something like the year 1910. Despite its low-ish pressure level, the .45 Colt round, as originally loaded, is not wimpy.

The boolit the OP is talking about is what I use in my ".45 Colt Magnum" load, using a very healthy dose of 2400. The BHN is 12-13 (straight WW), and the load chronos at about 1,300 fps out of the Super Redhawk 454's 7.5" bbl. I've also tried BHN 10.5 (Muddy Creek Sam's lead), with excellent results. This boolit does respond well to tumble-lubing as well as traditional wax types.

[taco650]

The reason he has to beat the castings out, is because the barrel is wasp-waisted where it threads into the frame. So you got this cast piece of metal that is closely encased by the barrel, and it's shaped like an hourglass. Won't travel in either direction without a fight. Then when it does come out, it's worthless to measure from because it's swaged down now.

You can do the easiest test at home with a cleaning kit. Get the barrel clean and dry, patch a plastic or brass jag into the bore really tightly. Push it down the bore and feel the amount of resistance it takes to keep it moving. (Oddly enough, you can feel the "ripples" in a .45 barrel that are on the inside behind the roll marked warning!) If the jag gets hard to push through the part where it's threaded into the frame, that's the thread constriction you are feeling. If it is only a bit harder to push, you can maybe firelap that one out. If it stops, and you have to nearly destroy it to beat it through, that's a .003" constriction at the very least. Those, if you call Ruger, they should send you a shipping label and fix it on their dime, that's below SAAMI specs for the bore diameter, and they guarantee their pistols to be within SAAMI specs.

If you want the cylinders fixed, send me a PM or go to the facebook page in my signature and read up on it.

Will the roll mark ripples fire lap out too?

[pls1911]

Well placed shot at moderate velocity gives plenty of penetration to anchor whatever your hit.
Through both shoulders, or through the bung hole and out the nose, it does the job.
In fact, I go a bit further... I heat treat my bullets to mid 20s bhn, , put where it counts and things drop... DRT.
Don't over analyze it... Find what your gun likes, and shoot enough that it's an extension of yourself. You can put away a whole sounder in open pasture, after a little stalk...as long as your ammo lasts.

[taco650]

Well placed shot at moderate velocity gives plenty of penetration to anchor whatever your hit.
Through both shoulders, or through the bung hole and out the nose, it does the job. Don't over analyze it... Find what your gun likes, and shoot enough that it's an extension of yourself. You can put away a whole sounder in open pasture, after a little stalk...as long as your ammo lasts.

+1, good advice!

[Gunnut 45/454]

My hunting load for 45LC with the 255 Lee is 10.5 Unique, I show 1298 fps - I do believe that was out of my SRH 7.5" when I had it. I would exspect it would be 1500ish out of my 45 LC Win 94.

[skeettx]

Yes the load will work fine
I use a bit more in my New Model but 9.0 is awesome
Use it and report back on your hunting success.
Mike

[DougGuy]

Will the roll mark ripples fire lap out too?

About 90% of the distortion from the roll marks will firelap out. You can barely see what's left.

[Sheriff]

My hunting load for 45LC with the 255 Lee is 10.5 Unique, I show 1298 fps - I do believe that was out of my SRH 7.5" when I had it. I would exspect it would be 1500ish out of my 45 LC Win 94.

Mine is 10.0grs/255gr out of a 5.5" Bisley model, ss, convertible and it consistantly runs 1150 for 5-shot average.

[jmort]

^ That is the load I used for my "Old" Vaquero. You are getting around 900 foot pounds with that load. That will work real good. Got to love that 11.5 mm.

[abearir]

Well after having shot a few rounds of both 9.0gr and 10.5gr of Unique.....

I'll say either is very capable of hunting at reasonable distances. Penetration of WD 50/50 WW-Pb is impressive. 7.5" in solid green pine. I stopped digging at two feet in wet earth.

I will need to soften my mix a little for these velocities as I got zero expansion.

[DougGuy]

At the velocity you are shooting, air cooled 50/50+2% would be a good match for the Ruger's rate of twist. Both my .44 and .45 group well with alloy soft enough to scratch with a thumbnail. Also, make up some Felix lube and try it.