Time to admit what you don't know.

[Saint]

I cruise the boards all of the time and hear terms that I don't understand but up until now the fact that I am a man has made me too proud to ask. I am starting this thread for Q&A. Any terms that you don't know can be posted here and we will give you an answer without ridiculing you for not knowing. So go ahead and ask that question you have wanted to ask for so long.

[Saint]

I will start the party with this one. I have been casting for bout 2 years now but I still have no idea what swaging is, how it's done, or what it's purpose is. I would be much obliged if someone could shoot out a very short reply.

[JSnover]

Swaging is squeezing something down to size or crushing it to surround and contain something else. Cables are swaged so they don't slip out of the ferrule or clevis. Bullet swaging is done in a press. Sizing is also a swaging operation but in that case the bullets are only being squeezed down a few thousandths of an inch. Swaging generally involves a much bigger reduction but the principle is the same. Crimping and case sizing could also be considered swaging.

[jjamna]

I have been pondering this one for a week or two. What is a bullet meplate?

[Saint]

Meplate refers to the bullet nose diameter. For example a flat nosed bullet has a larger meplate than a bullet with a rounded nose. That was a new term for me too.

[Woodwrkr]

Here's another one: So far I've been casting straight from the smelting pot. Well, I ordered a Lee Pro 4-20 pot, its coming in tomorrow, so now I need to cast some ingots. I tried casting ingots once before using a muffin pan and the ingots were permanently fused to to muffin pan. I had to melt the ingots out of the muffin pan.

I've got two genuine ingot molds now, an iron RCBS and an aluminum Lyman. Do I need to preheat or smoke the ingot molds before casting with them to help the ingots release from the molds? Any other recommendations?

[38 Super Auto]

I tried the same thing with regular tins. They had to cool along time and some had to be coerced out.

I switched to non-stick and they drop right out. I have used the non stick molds about 10 times with no signs of wear.

I think mold release should also help keep them from sticking. :drinks:

[fourarmed]

Woodwrkr, the reason the muffin molds didn't work is that they were tin plated steel. The molten alloy was hot enough to melt the tin coating and solder the ingot to the steel. This has happened to lots of us.

[Saint]

I only cast for black powder so I have always wondered what is the purpose of tumbling the cases.

[Bret4207]

Could someone define "Honest Politician" and "Fair Tax"?

Oh, didn't think so.:mrgreen:

[Woodwrkr]

According to the Lee load manual, even if you're using carbide sizing dies, a grain of debris can be hard enough to scratch the die and eventually cause the die to crack.

Tumbling the cases is to clean all debris off the outside of the cases. I don't know from personal experience, but I'm told whether or not the inside of the case is clean doesn't have any effect on the loaded ammo. So long as the primer seats fully and the flash hole is clear, I'm told whether or not the primer pocket is clean doesn't matter all that much. Well maybe it might if you're doing bench rest rifle shooting (I don't) but with handguns it reportedly doesn't.

[bc3660]

I only cast for black powder so I have always wondered what is the purpose of tumbling the cases.

It cleans the case and makes it look nice again.

[Forester]

So long as the primer seats fully and the flash hole is clear, I'm told whether or not the primer pocket is clean doesn't matter all that much. Well maybe it might if you're doing bench rest rifle shooting (I don't) but with handguns it reportedly doesn't.

Opinions abound on that one, but for rifles I think cleaning, and in some cases even uniforming primer pockets and flash holes is worth it. Not so much on Pistol cases unless you are striving for bullseye type accuracy, maybe not even then.

[JSnover]

A lot of fouling inside the case could reduce the volume and increase the pressure but I doubt most people would let it get that bad. With smokeless powders it might never get heavy enough to worry about but I tumble mine anyway, just to get rid of the bulk of it. As far as primer pockets go, my pocket cleaning tool will often not reach all they way in; it just scrapes the majority of the carbon out. Instead of adjusting the tool for each headstamp, I just segregate the brass and use the shallower pockets when I'm trying for the most accurate load.

[Gussy]

I only cast for black powder so I have always wondered what is the purpose of tumbling the cases.

Aside from looking nice, it cleans the inside which is more important. If you wet clean the inside and case mouth, tumbling is really not needed.

Cleaning out the residue from black powder stops any corrosion of the brass. A clean, slick case mouth is important if you want all of the brass to come out of the chamber after firing and not some of it going down the barrel, usually part way. For some reason if the mouth is dirty from previous firing, the low pressure black powder loads don't make the brass want to let go of the bullet. Best outcome is a streched case, worst is a splitcase with part going with the bullet.

Hopes this helps.
Gus

[crowbeaner]

Bret; the definition is smoke and mirrors. CB.

[HORNET]

Bret,
I've heard that an Honest Politician is one that stays bought......

[leftiye]

Bret........... Can you say oxymoron?

[38 Super Auto]

I only cast for black powder so I have always wondered what is the purpose of tumbling the cases.

I tumble my cases to keep the debris and fouling in the case and the crap on the outside of the case out of the chamber and bore. I am more interested in avoiding sending accumulated grit down the bore with the bullet or mucking up the chamber with unknown debris. Bright shiny cases are easier for me to retrieve out of the sea of brass at the range.

There are other ways of cleaning cases, but vibratory cleaners work for me.

[wills]

Here's another one: So far I've been casting straight from the smelting pot. Well, I ordered a Lee Pro 4-20 pot, its coming in tomorrow, so now I need to cast some ingots. I tried casting ingots once before using a muffin pan and the ingots were permanently fused to to muffin pan. I had to melt the ingots out of the muffin pan.


Use old rusty muffin pans. Ingots will drop right out, wont be contaminated.

[madcaster]

A honest politician and a fair tax are defined as a "hallucination of the mind".

[wills]

A "Fair Tax" is one somebody else pays.

[shooting on a shoestring]

I use only aluminum muffin pans for ingots. They transfer heat well, and cool quicker. Also molten lead will not solder itself to them. They are fairly easy to find in antique stores, flea markets, garage sales...places I end up following my wife. I'm always buying bread pans (great for dumping a box of brass into, cycling through my press and a second one on the other side of the press catches the sized, or primed or whatever brass)(bread pans also collect my freshly cast boolits and contain them until they get sized, lubed and boxed), small pans and lids for cooking and storing lubes, aluminum funnels, sometimes I buy more than she does.

[mroliver77]

I have always wondered if penguins have knees but was afraid to ask and look stoopid. Jay

[KCSO]

I know that in B/P crtridges an un cleaned case neck will cause the bulet pull to vary and wil open groups with stringing. I tumble to clean inside and out.

[montana_charlie]

I have always wondered if penguins have knees but was afraid to ask and look stoopid. Jay
I find it very admirable that you have found the courage to go ahead and look stoopid. Perhaps, someday, I will find the courage to try to answer that question...
CM

[testhop]

Could someone define "Honest Politician" and "Fair Tax"?

Oh, didn't think so.:mrgreen:


yes every politician is one than is running for the first time

and a fairtax is one all but you pay

[Phil]

"Could someone define "Honest Politician"

Geez Bret, the cemeteries are full of them. (:>)

Phil

[S.R.Custom]

Opinions abound on that one, but for rifles I think cleaning, and in some cases even uniforming primer pockets and flash holes is worth it. Not so much on Pistol cases unless you are striving for bullseye type accuracy, maybe not even then.

Not cleaning primer pockets and saying its OK is right up there with Benchresters saying they don't trickle their charges. They just say that so you don't bother. :mrgreen:

[jjamna]

Good one CM

[Buckshot]

Originally Posted by mroliver77
I have always wondered if penguins have knees but was afraid to ask and look stoopid. Jay


I find it very admirable that you have found the courage to go ahead and look stoopid. Perhaps, someday, I will find the courage to try to answer that question...
CM

...............I would go check my pet penguin Marvin, but he is currently migrated.

............Buckshot

[mroliver77]

Thats the problem with penguins these days. When you need them they are nowhere to be found. I guess everybody needs to go on holiday once in a while. J

[Freightman]

Could someone define "Honest Politician" and "Fair Tax"?

Oh, didn't think so.:mrgreen:
The "honest politician" is easy "ONE THAT HASN'T BEEN CAUGHT"
"Fair Tax" also easy "ONE THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY"
Honest and POLITICIAN are not really synonymous with one another.

[9.3X62AL]

"Honest politician" = "Ferrari camper shell". Our recently-retired Sheriff seems to have had serial lapses of ethics--I think his successor is a pretty good guy. Anyone who carried a S&W Model 29 with handloaded #429421's on board can't be all bad.

[AZ-Stew]

Saint,

Bullet swaging is not "squeezing down" to the size of the die, but rather, squeezing up to the size of the die. The core and jacket sizes are smaller than the die prior to swaging. Pressure applied at the base or nose (depending on the type of bullet being swaged) forces the metals to expand to fill the die. The process of reducing material size in a die is called "drawing". Wire is drawn through dies to progressively reduce it to the desired size. Cast bullet sizing is a drawing operation.

Bret4207,

For an explanation of the "Fair Tax", see: http://www.fairtax.org/ If you like hiring a CPA or spending several evenings per year sitting in front of a computer cussing at the legislative thieves who are raiding your wallet and implementing the impossible-to-understand income tax code, while trying to do your taxes yourself, you'll hate the Fair Tax.

Woodwrkr,

In his book, "The Accurate Rifle", noted bench rest shooter Warren Page wrote that during one competition season he experimented with NOT cleaning primer pockets and claimed that he was unable to tell whether cleaning them made any difference. But that was 30 years ago. Maybe with today's more precision benchrest rifles, one CAN tell the difference. I'm not convinced anyone could tell the difference in a hunting rifle or handgun.

Commercial ingot moulds from Lyman and RCBS have enough draft angle built into them that all you have to do is invert them after the ingot casting solidifies and give them a light tap on the bench or ground and the ingots should drop right out. No other prep is required. I used aluminum muffin pans for a long time, but they won't stand up to the weight of a full load of lead. They bend and make the ingot removal process a real pain.

jjamna,

First, it's "meplat", not "meplate", and it is a flat surface on the nose of a projectile. See: http://www.answers.com/topic/m-plat?cat=technology Round-nosed bullets do not have a meplat. Spitzer and hollow point rifle bullets have small meplats. Semi-wadcutter and full-wadcutter bullets have large meplats. And "ogive" is pronounced "oh-jive", not "oh-give".

Regards,

Stew

[Bret4207]

Stew- THAT fair tax I know about. Intriguing. A bit scary since Gov't can screw up ANYTHING, but intriguing.

Al- My favorite example of a modern politician- William Jefferson of Louisiana. I know I keep hundreds of thousands of dollars in my fridge.....

[looseprojectile]

Anyone want to tackle,
Sabot -- say bow, I thought sabbot was Sunday. Dang French.

Fair tax is what Democrats pay with Republicans money.
A large tax break usually results in a 30 cent cut.
A small tax increase usually costs me several hundred bucks.
Keep it up guys I need some humor as it's been a long winter this last couple of weeks.:drinks:

[crazy mark]

I need an answer to why I buy moulds and dies I don't have guns for and also buy guns I don't have dies or moulds for. Can anybody answer that question for me. It has been bothering me for many years. Mark

[MtGun44]

A sabot (pronounced say-boe, as was pointed out) is Dutch for "shoe",
and is also the root for 'sabotage' which involved placing your wooden shoe
in the wooden peg gear teeth of a windmill to ruin it and thereby
flood areas under control of the Nazis in WW2 - for example.

A sabot in the firearms field is a device that permits an undersized or odd shaped
projectile to be launched in a powder powered gun. Most of the time we are
using a 'discarding sabot' which comes apart and falls off of the projectile after
the assembly (projectile and sabot) leave the muzzle. The sabot seals the
projectile to the bore and aligns and supports it during the firing process.

The M1A1 Abrams tank main gun uses a discarding sabot round to propel a
depleted uranium 'arrow' about an inch in diameter and ~15" long at well over
5000 fps (classified actual velocity). This projectile shoots thru a tank the
same way a .22LR shoots thru a tin can. A very good application of a sabot.

Shotguns are using sabots for slugs, muzzle loaders use them a lot now days, and
the "Accelerator" ammo from Remington (IIRC) uses sabots so you can launch
a .224 bullet at very high velocity from your .30-06.

Bill

[waksupi]

I would like to know the patent date, and subsequent pattern histories, of the Asperly Aimless.

[felix]

Mark, you already have your answer. It's in your ID. They called me crazy Felix when I was invited to do an incognito on-line database job in Florida for a consortium of banks in the midwest. This completed job was supposed to be a system to replace the currently installed batch software provided by Systematics. Those in the banking industry would know of this after the fact. I was billed as a crazy SOB who could get the job off of the ground and provide direction for its completion. I was not offered a royalty payment scenario that I was privately seeking after hearing about the opportunities of the job and why they wanted me. So, I do know about CRAZY. Long story short, the system did not fly, and for what reasons I do not know. I suspect internal politics that I detected while interviewing the banking partners. ... felix

[floodgate]

crazy mark:

EASY! Your "handle" says it all. Me, too....

crazy floodgate

[Buckshot]

I would like to know the patent date, and subsequent pattern histories, of the Asperly Aimless.

...............There is conjecture among the Asperly Aimless illuminati (those so afflicted) that the mysterious disapperance of Prof Bruttus Llewellen Asperly was NOT actually an attempt to avoid litigation, or tar and feathering. He was last seen entering the patent office pulling a red Radio Flyer wagon with sideboards, containing all his drawings, documentation and patent request forms.

It's felt that he possibly ran afoul of a patent official (or officials) of minimal mental balance, and was made to 'Disappear' in an Argentinian sort of way. Several Aimless owners, trying to serve personal and property damage papers approched patent officials since he was seen there last. None were forthcoming, but several suspiciously broke out into cold sweats or began speaking in tongues.

...............Buckshot

[sundog]

Mark, your question is one of life's mysteries that will never be solved nor understood.

ACCEPT IT! Life will be much easier.

[725]

Crazy Mark, Another one of life's many "imponderables".

[JSnover]

[QUOTE=AZ-Stew;269748]Saint,

The process of reducing material size in a die is called "drawing".

It suppose it can be but not in all cases. I fabricated hydraulic tube assemblies for 12 years using a pressure swage; Slide the coupling over the end of the tube, insert them into the swaging die (a two-piece collet die) and apply 3000 lbs. The die closes and crushes them, forming a permanent coupling assembly rated to 5,000.
Appreciated you clarification, just thought I'd add my own.

[spurgon]

What is barrel slugging?
spurgon

[montana_charlie]

Swaging a lead bullet is crushing a lead core within a die to make the metal take on the shape of the die's interior.
Swaging jacketed bullets is crushing a lead core within the partially formed jacket...which is surrounded by a die...so that the metal and jacket take on the shape of the die's interior.

In bullet swaging, excess metal is extruded out of the die.

Drawing is is a 'stretching' process...no crushing involved.
The metal is made narrower (or thinner) by pulling it longer (in wire and tubing).

No metal is removed...only repositioned.
CM

[454PB]

What is barrel slugging?
spurgon

Hmmm....a serious question.

Slugging is driving a soft lead "slug" through the barrel or throat to measure it's diameter. There are many methods employed, some use hardwood dowels, I use brazing rod. Whatever is used, it has to be soft enough to prevent damage to the metal. Be sure the barrel is cleaned of all copper and/or lead contamination and well lubed. You will need a micrometer, or a very accurate vernier caliper to measure the slug once it's made the trip.

[Wayne Smith]

Mark, that's easy - they are for trading, don't cha kno! Just remember that until you find the matching rifle or mold, then it was prescient.

[black44hawk]

I have heard that heat treating in an oven is superior to water quenching right out of the mold because the latter procedure creates hard bullets that soften over a period of time. What is the difference, since both are probably right around the same temperature?

[felix]

The guy who told you that is street walker. No difference, except for time when out of the mold, or out of the oven. This assumes you are consistent in casting. If you are a flippant caster like I am half of the time, then oven treatment is superior. ... felix

[JSnover]

I have heard that heat treating in an oven is superior to water quenching right out of the mold because the latter procedure creates hard bullets that soften over a period of time. What is the difference, since both are probably right around the same temperature?

I think someone may have gotten confused or picked up some sort of Urban Casting Legend somwhere. Lots of metals and alloys can go through an age-hardening or precipitation-hardening process after they cool. Never heard of any of them going the other way.

[felix]

Yes, they do go the other way. In most cases (literally) it will take a lifetime for them to go back to ambient (air cooling equivalent). The individual boolits will be more or less consistent after a year or so, i.e., normalizing themselves during the hardness rise and fall. I've shot 6 year old boolits in my BR gun that are exceptional in consistency. I usually shoot the same within 6 months, and sometimes even a few batches that are a year old. They do improve with age. But, for a pistol, lever gun? One month should be plenty, and then any time after that is prolly a waste of good shelf time and space. ... felix

[mainiac]

Not cleaning primer pockets and saying its OK is right up there with Benchresters saying they don't trickle their charges. They just say that so you don't bother. :mrgreen:

supermag, have shot well over 50,000 rounds in registered br competition, every load was thrown from a powder measure,never clean inside of cases either. Won state championships,and top 10 in the nationals, plus many,many matches at the local level.Primer pockets are uniformed when new,and then never cleaned! Cases last 50-60 loadings apiece,with one-hole accuracy,to boot.

[JSnover]

That's interesting, Felix. Most of my heat-treatment experience involves steel or aluminum. Do you happen to know far up and down the BHN goes? I'm not planning on socking my bullets away for the Apocolypse, just looking for some metallurgical trivia here.
Thanks.

[felix]

No, I have never measured them with an official scale. Sorry 'bout that! Only advice is to wait as long as possible (patience wise) before you shoot significantly from the lot in question. It is like tasting new wine. By the time the lot is truly ready, it is gone. Always do a full pot of lead for one boolit is the motto I use. At least half are put up into storage, and I don't mark them. I love surprises. Cheaper than a new boolit, new gun, new powder, etc. ... felix

[klausg]

Okay guys another pronunciation one that has been bugging me for awhile...
COL Townsend Whelen/.35 Whelen: is it WEE-len or WAY-len. I've heard both and I like to try to not sound like an idiot. Thanks

-Klaus

[Wayne Smith]

Okay guys another pronunciation one that has been bugging me for awhile...
COL Townsend Whelen/.35 Whelen: is it WEE-len or WAY-len. I've heard both and I like to try to not sound like an idiot. Thanks

-Klaus

I have no idea, I just prounce it Way-len. Sounds good to me, an I don't mind sounding like an idjet when I truly don't know any better.

[MT Gianni]

Years ago I read it was Whay-len and Leopold was Loop-old not leo-polled. It was a gun magazine so who knows. Gianni

[Bass Ackward]

That's interesting, Felix. Most of my heat-treatment experience involves steel or aluminum. Do you happen to know far up and down the BHN goes? I'm not planning on socking my bullets away for the Apocolypse, just looking for some metallurgical trivia here.
Thanks.


I have bullets .431 bullets molded from WW (no tin added) that were water dropped and ranged from 24 to 28 BHN when molded in the early 90s. One year later, they were a uniform 20 BHN. They have been garage kept all this time from North Carolina to Pennsylvania and subjected to those extremes. That's 17 years.

[joeb33050]

I think someone may have gotten confused or picked up some sort of Urban Casting Legend somwhere. Lots of metals and alloys can go through an age-hardening or precipitation-hardening process after they cool. Never heard of any of them going the other way.

I cast some 314299s from a very hard alloy, generally size .312 then .309, could NOT get these to size to .309 in any combination of dies. Just too hard for the Lyman 450. First time this ever happened to me. I was planning to get a Lee sizer rig or melt them down. That lino was too hard, added lead to the pile and got it about right. Cast 314299s, sized easy, then-couple of weeks after the failed sizing try, got some of those TOO HARD bullets to fiddle with and they sized easy. In ~ 2 weeks those TOO HARD bullets softened up a lot.
joe b.

[JSnover]

That's like a 20-25% reduction!
Thanks for that eye-opener. If anyone knows of any books on this subject, let me know. It's sort of a hobby of mine.

[Saint]

What is a muzzle brake and if it is what I think it is why would I want to slow my bullet down rather than reducing the charge?

[Dross]

What is a muzzle brake and if it is what I think it is why would I want to slow my bullet down rather than reducing the charge?

a muzzle brake, (as I understand it) is an end-of-barrel, semi or permanent attachment that re-directs venting gasses to help compensate for muzzle rise, flash, or sound-suppression purposes.

It has no effect on bullet velocity that I know of.
(other than use of sub-sonic rounds in a suppressed weapon for Heat Erosion/Sound reasons)

Examples:

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o193/jinxxxonu/muzzlebrake.jpg
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o193/jinxxxonu/Rangemaster2.jpg
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o193/jinxxxonu/627.jpg
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o193/jinxxxonu/mbrake2.jpg

[mroliver77]

A muzzle break lessens the felt recoil of a gun using the gases comming out behind the bullet. Holes cut either in a scew on or even cut in the barrel end itself catch some gas and pull the gun away from you somewhat reducing the recoil. Does not slow boolit. J

[timkelley]

What does a soup-can boolet look like, I keep seeing threads about them?

[miestro_jerry]

Could a soup can boolit be a full WC boolit? I would like to know also.

Jerry

[JIMinPHX]

A sabot (pronounced say-boe, as was pointed out) is Dutch for "shoe",
and is also the root for 'sabotage' which involved placing your wooden shoe
in the wooden peg gear teeth of a windmill to ruin it and thereby
flood areas under control of the Nazis in WW2 - for example.

A sabot in the firearms field is a device that permits an undersized or odd shaped
projectile to be launched in a powder powered gun. Most of the time we are
using a 'discarding sabot' which comes apart and falls off of the projectile after
the assembly (projectile and sabot) leave the muzzle. The sabot seals the
projectile to the bore and aligns and supports it during the firing process.

The M1A1 Abrams tank main gun uses a discarding sabot round to propel a
depleted uranium 'arrow' about an inch in diameter and ~15" long at well over
5000 fps (classified actual velocity). This projectile shoots thru a tank the
same way a .22LR shoots thru a tin can. A very good application of a sabot.

Shotguns are using sabots for slugs, muzzle loaders use them a lot now days, and
the "Accelerator" ammo from Remington (IIRC) uses sabots so you can launch
a .224 bullet at very high velocity from your .30-06.

Bill


This is pretty close to what I have read as well, except that I thought it was the French & not the Dutch that came up with Sabot & Sabotage. I’ll need to check on that.

Also the Sabot was one of the first great advancements in artillery. Back in the early days of cannon, before cannon balls were being cast, rocks were fired from a rough bore. Originally, the rocks were chipped away at with a chisel until they sort of fit. Then someone (I thought it was the French) came up with the idea, to carve out a bucket shaped piece from a log & put the rock inside that. They called it the wooden shoe, or Sabot. Once close fitting cannon balls were cast, the practice of using a sabot fell out of use for centuries. It was only resurrected in modern times (from what I have read).

[4thebrdz]

I didn't know that lead would be worth so much today!

[Ricochet]

What a muzzle brake brakes is the powder gas, which otherwise flows straight out the muzzle at something over 5000 FPS, producing a considerable jet thrust to the rear that adds to the recoil. Divert the gas out to the side, effectively "braking" its forward velocity to zero, and you greatly reduce the recoil. Divert it to the rear and it gives a forward thrust on the brake that further reduces recoil, but the blast to the rear gets uncomfortable for the shooter.

The "Soup Can" is Lee's C309-113-F boolit.

http://leeprecision.com/graphics/bullets/c309113f.gif

[Salmon-boy]

I didn't know how important it was to slug a barrel. Or how to do it. Until today that is... :-)

[timkelley]

Ricochet, I'm just dense I guess but what makes that boolet a "soup can"? Is it a specific shape or just a name? Am I beating up that poor ol dead pony again?

[Ricochet]

It's a nickname that originated in this group. I don't know who came up with it. Doesn't look that much like a soup can to me, either. Took me a long time to remember it was a "soup can," not an "ash can" (think depth charge), "trash can," "oil can," etc.

Maybe somebody was on a diet when they thought of it.

[paul edward]

[QUOTE=Bret4207;269305]Could someone define "Honest Politician" and "Fair Tax"?

An honest politician is one that once bought, stays bought. Very rare these days.

[timkelley]

Ricochet,:):):)

[Adam10mm]

A meplat (MEE-plat) is the leading edge of the bullet. Take a bullet and hold it towards the base. Hold it nose down so the nose is touching the table. The part that touches the table and only the table is the meplat.

Spitzers and soft points do have meplats, but it is extremely small. It is simple impossible to have a meplat that measures zero.

[BAGTIC]

Actually as far back as the 1400's stone cannon balls were being machine made using the same technology that is used today to produce those pretty ornamental stone decorative balls one sees in novelty stores.

[jjamna]

I have come accross this term several times since this post came out. What does it mean to beagle a bullet / mold?

[klausg]

jjamna-
"Beagling" involves using Aluminum tape to shim apart your blocks resulting in larger bullets. For a much more complete description, scroll down to the Castpics link @ the bottom of the page, click on "Moulds" and beagle has a very in depth and fairly idiot-proof article on the topic.

-Klaus

[454PB]

Years ago I read it was Whay-len and Leopold was Loop-old not leo-polled. It was a gun magazine so who knows. Gianni

And I read in some gun rag that it was "Wheelin", as in wheelin' & dealin'.

Leopold Stevens also makes water level metering devices that I worked with a lot as a hydro-electric operator. The employees pronounce it "loopold".

When I bought my first .454 Casull, I wrote Freedom Arms for some information and asked how Casull was pronounced. I was told "Casool".

How about Sako? I read it's pronounced "socko".

[jjamna]

Thanks Klaus

[felix]

Shilen = Shill - Len, not Shy - Len. ... felix

[405]

Always wondered about correct pronunciation of Leupold??? Have heard here it is "Loo-pold". But if "Leu" is pronounced "Loo" shouldn't Leupold be spelled "Loupold". Maybe have to ask the owner of the name:-?

And, have heard about 50% of the time, Hornady pronounced "Horn-a-day"
IF that were true, after a week you'd have seven horns:mrgreen:

[quietmike]

Ogive- I know it has to do with the curvature of the nose of the boolit.
But can someone explain what a 1 ogive, 2 ogive, etc. means?

[Bullshop]

I think the #'s refer to length in calibers. For instance in a 30 cal boolit a 1 ogive will be about .3" while a 2 ogive will be about .6" in length. One would be more blunt and the other longer and more streamlined. I THINK!
Blessings
BIC/BS

[Alchemist]

Here's another one: So far I've been casting straight from the smelting pot. Well, I ordered a Lee Pro 4-20 pot, its coming in tomorrow, so now I need to cast some ingots. I tried casting ingots once before using a muffin pan and the ingots were permanently fused to to muffin pan. I had to melt the ingots out of the muffin pan.

I've got two genuine ingot molds now, an iron RCBS and an aluminum Lyman. Do I need to preheat or smoke the ingot molds before casting with them to help the ingots release from the molds? Any other recommendations?


I've been using Miday Drop-out on my ingot moulds...the ingots fall out with a slight tap...sometimes they fall out just turning the mould upside down. I think it contains mostly graphite, since it it about the same color and will rub off to a certain degree....the effects are still the same though.

Hope that helps
Alchemist

[floodgate]

quietmike:

As you read through this, take a pencil, a piece of paper, a ruler and a compass. Draw a typical long-ish pointed rifle bullet. Draw a center line along the axis of the bullet. Draw another line at right angles across the bullet, at the point the nose starts to curve in from the straight part of the body. Take a compass, set it for 1/2 THE DIAMETER of the bullet. Put the compass pencil point where the curve starts on the side of the body, on the cross-line, and the needle point of the compass on the cross-line (for a 1/2 ogive, it will fall at the intersection of the two lines). Draw an arc with the compass from the cross line to the center line. That is a 1/2 CALIBER OGIVE nose, and - if you continue the arc on down to the cross-line, you will see that this gives you a hemispherical point.

Now, set the compass to ONE FULL DIAMETER. Again, put the pencil point at the spot where the nose curve meets the straight part of the body, and put the needle of the compass on the cross line (this time, it will fall right on the opposite side of the bullet). Strike an arc up and over to the center line. Turn the compass over, put the point on the other side of the bullet sketch, where the cross line meets the straight body, and again strike the arc up to the center line. You have now outlined a ONE CALIBER OGIVE, and it will be a VERY blunt point.

Now, set the compass to two bullet diameters. Again, put the pencil point where the curve meets the straight body, and the needle on the cross line (this time, it will be one full diameter BEYOND the far side of the bullet. Strike the same two arcs, one from ether side of the bullet sketch up to the center line; you will now have a TWO CALIBER OGIVE, still a bit blunt, but pointier.

Keep doing this up to a TEN caliber compass spread, and you will have a family of ogives from the hemispherical ONE CALIBER OGIVE on up to a much longer, and VERY pointy TEN CALIBER OGIVE. For practical purposes, an EIGHT CALIBER OGIVE is about the maximum that will still leave enough straight bearing surface on the body to guide the bullet, for a practical overall length and weight of the bullet. To cut back the overall length and weight, the tip can be cut off cross-wise to give a flat or hollow point, or replaced with a smaller hemispherical tip like many soft-point hunting bullets.

Have I confused everyone enought yet? (I got this from Dave Corbin's swaging books).

floodgate

[quietmike]

Bullshop and Floodgate

Thanks for the education. I always worried that skipping geometry classes to go hunting would come back to haunt me someday.

Thanks to your help, it hasn't yet.:twisted:

[The Nyack Kid]

i jest got of work and read this thead , well what i know can be wrote on the inside of a 30 cal gascheck ...... with a felt tip pen .

[Newtire]

And I read in some gun rag that it was "Wheelin", as in wheelin' & dealin'.

Leopold Stevens also makes water level metering devices that I worked with a lot as a hydro-electric operator. The employees pronounce it "loopold".

When I bought my first .454 Casull, I wrote Freedom Arms for some information and asked how Casull was pronounced. I was told "Casool".

How about Sako? I read it's pronounced "socko".

If you are Finn, you say Sowna too not Sawna. It is Socko.

[JSnover]

"I've got two genuine ingot molds now, an iron RCBS and an aluminum Lyman. Do I need to preheat or smoke the ingot molds before casting with them to help the ingots release from the molds? Any other recommendations?"

I preheat my aluminum mold by laying it across the top of the pot until I'm ready to pour. Ingots drop out pretty easy if I just wait a few minutes, stand the mold on it's edge and let it flop down on it's face, onto a wooden surface. Iron molds will cool more slowly, so they might need more attention.

[JSnover]

Ogive- I know it has to do with the curvature of the nose of the boolit.
But can someone explain what a 1 ogive, 2 ogive, etc. means?

What I wanna know is how it's pronounced? Is it "oh-guyve" or "oh-jive"?
:roll:

[sundog]

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ogive

[floodgate]

JSnover:

"Oh-jive" from my Random House College Dictionary...

Fg

[xtimberman]

I keep reading about these squid loads that shooters start making up when they begin to undertake the foolish and unsafe pastime of reloading their own ammo.

Squid come in all sizes - from finger-length to downright gigantic. How can one load perform well on all varieties. It seems like you'd want to use a shotgun on the smaller schooling ones and maybe a large cal. N.E. on giant squid. :confused:


Sorry, I've been wanting to ask that for a long time. :mrgreen:

xtm

[10-x]

How Bout "Honest Auctioner?"[/I]

[mooman76]

"I've got two genuine ingot molds now, an iron RCBS and an aluminum Lyman. Do I need to preheat or smoke the ingot molds before casting with them to help the ingots release from the molds? Any other recommendations?"

I preheat my aluminum mold by laying it across the top of the pot until I'm ready to pour. Ingots drop out pretty easy if I just wait a few minutes, stand the mold on it's edge and let it flop down on it's face, onto a wooden surface. Iron molds will cool more slowly, so they might need more attention.

No you don't need to preheat or smoke them. The purpose of that is for good mould fill out so you get good bullets. Unless of coarse you want purdy ingots!:bigsmyl2:

[JSnover]

Yep! The ingots fall out of the aluminum mold either way but some of them look like crap if they're poured cold. It's probably just a NewGuy thing.......

[4570guy]

Regarding cast bullet hardness after heat treat (either mould dropped or oven heat treat) -- Harrison's Cast Bullet Handbook discusses this subject in some detail; although, he doesn't take the time scale beyond 6 months. I believe I saw BHN 20 after 17 years in a post up above. That's a pretty good time scale. There is a complete discussion in his book describing the metallurgy.

I prefer to oven heat treat for two reasons -- (1) I can control the temperature more accurately. You need to get the temperature just shy of the eutectic temperature -- about 440-460 deg F or so (for wheel weights). If you drop from the mould, you don't know what the temp is and may not get consistent BHN from bullet to bullet; (2) if you plan on sizing the bullet, its better to do this while soft and heat treat after sizing.

Finally -- I've always heard it pronounced "Way-lan" (for Townsend Whelen). However, I don't have any reference source for this.

[targetshootr]

I've been wondering if Wide Flat Nose boolits have any advantage over Keith style in accuracy or stopping power. I don't have any molds for them but I like how they look.

[blackthorn]

I keep reading about these squid loads that shooters start making up when they begin to undertake the foolish and unsafe pastime of reloading their own ammo.

Squid come in all sizes - from finger-length to downright gigantic. How can one load perform well on all varieties. It seems like you'd want to use a shotgun on the smaller schooling ones and maybe a large cal. N.E. on giant squid.


Sorry, I've been wanting to ask that for a long time.


It is "squib" not "squid" and it refers to a VERY mild load, in some cases (if it occurs as a mistake) so mild the bullet does not exit the barrel.

[Firebird]

I've been wondering if Wide Flat Nose boolits have any advantage over Keith style in accuracy or stopping power. I don't have any molds for them but I like how they look.

Stopping power - the wider meplat (flat front of the bullet) is supposed to give more stopping power to the WFN bullets; it's the goal of and reason for the WFN design.

Accuracy - the Keith designs will almost always out shoot any WFN design; the Wide flat nose moves the bullets center of gravity forward, which is bad for accuracy. WFN's typically are ok out to maybe 50 yards, by 100 yards most are keyholing and starting to tumble instead of flying point forward.