9mm 115gr, 124gr, 147gr cast for Deer and small game?

[huntersdog]

Looking for some suggestions on some good cast bullets for the 9mm Pistol for small game hunting and maybe an occasional deer out small game hunting.

I think a hard cast 9mm 147gr FP would be plenty for deer.

Edited added pistol

[dubber123]

Carbine or pistol? Either way I would lean towards the heavier flat points, pushed hard. Shot placement would have to be good. If it's a carbine, that would go a long ways towards getting decent power out of the 9mm.

[scattershot]

I have a friend who killed a Colorado mule deer with a 380. It worked, dead deer, but it's hardly a recommended load.

[tazman]

In this state, pistol only,no carbine allowed. .357 mag or larger only. No rifle except muzzle loader. Shotgun and archery.
Greatly limits your choices.

[Bigslug]

I think a hard cast 9mm 147gr FP would be plenty for deer.

It would. You'll have plenty of penetration on a broadside shot, but legality in your area is going to be the greater question.

[huntersdog]

Carbine or pistol? Either way I would lean towards the heavier flat points, pushed hard. Shot placement would have to be good. If it's a carbine, that would go a long ways towards getting decent power out of the 9mm.
I just edited it. Thanks for pointing that out. It would be for a 9mm handgun.

[huntersdog]

I have a friend who killed a Colorado mule deer with a 380. It worked, dead deer, but it's hardly a recommended load.
I have had a few buddies use BB in the 38 special to take deer in their 4" revolvers.

[huntersdog]

It would. You'll have plenty of penetration on a broadside shot, but legality in your area is going to be the greater question.
No restriction, just as long as it is over 35 Cal.

[357shooter]

No restriction, just as long as it is over 35 Cal.
Doesn't that eliminate 9mm?

[tazman]

Doesn't that eliminate 9mm?
9mm is .356

[357shooter]

9mm is .356
Exactly, the 35 caliber ammo that I see is in the neighborhood of .358. Anything starting w/.35 is 35 caliber isn't it? The post I responded to said it had to be bigger than 35 caliber.

[DougGuy]

I would NOT hunt deer with a 9mm. Period. There are SO many better choices, it's just silly to take the chance of wounding an animal just to say yeah I took it with a 9mm.

[Blammer]

technically yes, 9mm is .355 dia

357 mag is .358 dia

9mm is smaller

but you too can be a test case.

for small game, I'd use the 135gr FP's by NOE.

[Char-Gar]

I would NOT hunt deer with a 9mm. Period. There are SO many better choices, it's just silly to take the chance of wounding an animal just to say yeah I took it with a 9mm.

I most strongly agree.

[huntersdog]

Doesn't that eliminate 9mm?

Nope, anything .351 and over is OK, just like we can hunt with a rifle .22 cal just as long as it's a centerfire for big game, which we can use .223 for deer, bear, elk, etc.

[gray wolf]

Small game sure, Deer ? foolish move.
It's not about what will kill a Deer, it's about being humane and killing quickly.
There comes a time when we say, But, But it's all I have, I say then you don't have enough.
Use the right tool for the job, folks just don't hunt Deer with a 9 Mill if they can help it.
Just my 2 cents

[jonp]

Exactly, the 35 caliber ammo that I see is in the neighborhood of .358. Anything starting w/.35 is 35 caliber isn't it? The post I responded to said it had to be bigger than 35 caliber.
I would not want to be the guy in front of the judge arguing over 1/1000 of an inch

[huntersdog]

I would not want to be the guy in front of the judge arguing over 1/1000 of an inch
It's in the reg, nothing to dispute or argue over. I have taken several black bears with the .223 and a pile of deer with the .223 also. Spine shots or head shots and they just drop.

[xacex]

Shoot a black bear with a cast 223, take a picture for me will ya? Where do you live again? I just want to put your local paper in my search engine.

[45-70 Chevroner]

I would NOT hunt deer with a 9mm. Period. There are SO many better choices, it's just silly to take the chance of wounding an animal just to say yeah I took it with a 9mm.
I second that.
If it hasn't changed, Arizona allows any centerfire handgun or rifle to hunt big game. Hopefully our hunters here know what the humane limit is.

[huntersdog]

Shoot a black bear with a cast 223, take a picture for me will ya? Where do you live again? I just want to put your local paper iiin my search engine. Please do not put words into my mouth I did not say anything about using a cast 223 for bear.

I use a 60 grain Nosler Partition do very well as does the TSX. The .223 is used a lot in and been very Successful in many parts of Alaska for hunting Bou, moose, bears.

I have a buddy who is a native and in Alaska and he uses a 243 to hunt everything and he takes brown bears with his 243 every year.

[gray wolf]

Some people need a slap upside the head, some once in a while, and then again some need a constant reminder.
Not a slam, not meant to be abusive and surely not directed at anyone here.

[xacex]

Please do not put words into my mouth I did not say anything about using a cast 223 for bear.

I use a 60 grain Nosler Partition do very well as does the TSX. The .223 is used a lot in and been very Successful in many parts of Alaska for hunting Bou, moose, bears.

I have a buddy who is a native and in Alaska and he uses a 243 to hunt everything and he takes brown bears with his 243 every year.

Well, it is a cast boolit forum so that is a automatic assumption with many of the members here including myself. Yes, a partition, or TSX will work just like 5.45 in an ak will kill a grizzly bear. It is not ideal with an animal that can kill you. 9mm is also not idea for deer unless you intend on stalking it to be within bow range. Not an easy thing to do during general rifle season after the rut. I did it last year, and got close enough to use my sidearm, but the 300BO pistol was a much better choice, and worked as it was intended.I did not have to second guess if I would kill it if I hit a bone.

[huntersdog]

Some people need a slap upside the head, some once in a while, and then again some need a constant reminder.
Not a slam, not meant to be abusive and surely not directed at anyone here.
I hunt with the tools I have had for many years its all I have. I don't have the luxury to go out and buy a brand new toys big name for your arms to go hunting.


I've seen my share of animals shot with quote on quote hunting rifles in hunting handguns design for hunting big game and is never found or runs hundred yards.

Is it Maine we're the snowmobilers shot and killed a moose with a glock handgun attacked him on his snow go.

[huntersdog]

Well, it is a cast boolit forum so that is a automatic assumption with many of the members here including myself. Yes, a partition, or TSX will work just like 5.45 in an ak will kill a grizzly bear. It is not ideal with an animal that can kill you. 9mm is also not idea for deer unless you intend on stalking it to be within bow range. Not an easy thing to do during general rifle season after the rut. I did it last year, and got close enough to use my sidearm, but the 300BO pistol was a much better choice, and worked as it was intended.I did not have to second guess if I would kill it if I hit a bone. I am NOT trying to be argumentative I was just asking if there is a good cast bullet that can be used in a 9mm for deer hunting. 9mm is the only handgun I own.

I am trying to save up for a 45 Ruger Blackhawk.

The 223 came up when somebody question if we were allowed to use .35 caliber handguns in the state and then I mention that to 223 was legal to hunt with here. .
I believe that is why the thread went off on a tangent.

[dakotashooter2]

I'll probably make a statement contrary to what you are getting here but I'd go to the heaviest flat nose bullet you can get to function, with the idea that you will probably get better penetration. Even then I'd keep my shots under 20 yards.

cal·i·ber (kăl′ə-bər)
n.
1. Abbr. cal.
a. The diameter of the inside of a round cylinder, such as a tube.
b. The diameter of the bore of a firearm, usually shown in hundredths or thousandths of an inch and expressed in writing or print in terms of a decimal fraction: .45 caliber.
c. The diameter of a large projectile, such as an artillery shell, measured in millimeters or in inches.

by this definition .355 is 35 caliber and no judge could argue otherwise.

I remember reading years ago that the most common cartridge used (successfully) by the Alaskan Natives for seal, caribou AND polar bear was the 22-250.

Also make sure your state doesn't have a magazine capacity restriction. While my state doesn't spell it outright for handguns it does have a 5 round max capacity for detachable magazine fed rifles. I suspect our wardens might apply it to handguns also.

[Bigslug]

I am NOT trying to be argumentative I was just asking if there is a good cast bullet that can be used in a 9mm for deer hunting. 9mm is the only handgun I own.

I am trying to save up for a 45 Ruger Blackhawk.

Well, one way you can look at this is that a good 9mm mold will cost about a quarter of what a Blackhawk does.

But I have shot FBI gelatin with a .358 200 grain round nose at under 600 fps and had it penetrate 18" when it ran out of Jell-O and hit the backstop. 147 grain flatheads at 1000 FPS shouldn't show you much difference in depth, and 160 grain .357's moving only a little faster are regarded by many as "peachy keen" for the task.

The 9mm's reputation still suffers from the days roundnosed FMJ (that merely pushed tissue out of the way), and of the 115 grain Silvertip (that opened real pretty but didn't penetrate for beans). We've got better solutions today. You need to understand that you won't get damage from hydrostatic displacement at under 2000fps - the bullet is going to destroy what it touches, but not a lot more. A flat nose will help with the grabbing, crushing, and tearing, but don't expect more than about 3/4" to an inch tube of ruptured stuff. Don't let this worry you too much, because that's a lot like the mechanism guys use to kill deer with 200FPS ARROWS all the time!

Shot placement is #1. Penetration THROUGH the pumping station is #2. As long as you've got both, you're golden.

[gray wolf]

AND polar bear was the 22-250.
With shots behind the Ear, Who in there right mind would wantingly choose to hunt polar bear with a 22 anything.
But I have been told that head shots and behind the ear does put meat in the igloo.

[357shooter]

I'll probably make a statement contrary to what you are getting here but I'd go to the heaviest flat nose bullet you can get to function, with the idea that you will probably get better penetration. Even then I'd keep my shots under 20 yards.

cal·i·ber (kăl′ə-bər)
n.
1. Abbr. cal.
a. The diameter of the inside of a round cylinder, such as a tube.
b. The diameter of the bore of a firearm, usually shown in hundredths or thousandths of an inch and expressed in writing or print in terms of a decimal fraction: .45 caliber.
c. The diameter of a large projectile, such as an artillery shell, measured in millimeters or in inches.

by this definition .355 is 35 caliber and no judge could argue otherwise.

I remember reading years ago that the most common cartridge used (successfully) by the Alaskan Natives for seal, caribou AND polar bear was the 22-250.

Also make sure your state doesn't have a magazine capacity restriction. While my state doesn't spell it outright for handguns it does have a 5 round max capacity for detachable magazine fed rifles. I suspect our wardens might apply it to handguns also.

I was the one that questioned if 9mm was legal. Back in post 8 the original poster said handguns larger than 35 cal were legal. The 9mm is NOT larger than 35 cal, it IS 35 caliber. Post 9 is where I questioned it.

[40-82]

I found a 22-250 case once on the western shore of the Hudson Bay. I wondered who was crazy enough to carry a rifle that light in such country. The next day as I paddled down the shore I ran into a man and his grandson out with only a 22 rifle. People take some crazy chances. No question bigger animals than deer have been killed with less gun than a 9mm pistol. Placement is everything, but still if money is that tight trade the thing in on a single shot 22 rifle, something you can shoot accurately. To use the 22 rifle would be illegal in most places, but in my view a notch up in ethics above the 9mm pistol. To use any pistol effectively enough for big game hunting requires a lot of practice, and the practice necessary to be good enough, even with cast bullets will be much more expensive than the cost of a new gun of suitable power.

[huntersdog]

I was the one that questioned if 9mm was legal. Back in post 8 the original poster said handguns larger than 35 cal were legal. The 9mm is NOT larger than 35 cal, it IS 35 caliber. Post 9 is where I questioned it.
my misinterpretation of the 35 caliber. It states .35 or caliber or LARGER.

[357shooter]

my misinterpretation of the 35 caliber. It states .35 or caliber or LARGER.Thanks for clarifying.

[dkf]

Please do not put words into my mouth I did not say anything about using a cast 223 for bear.

I use a 60 grain Nosler Partition do very well as does the TSX. The .223 is used a lot in and been very Successful in many parts of Alaska for hunting Bou, moose, bears.

I have a buddy who is a native and in Alaska and he uses a 243 to hunt everything and he takes brown bears with his 243 every year.

Yeah I saw how they hunt on TV. A pot shot at long range to wound the caribou so it lays down. Then walk up to it and cut its throat. Not ideal at all IMO.

If you can afford a .243 you can afford to buy a 30-06 or trade the .243 in towards a 30-06.

[Jupiter7]

Is it Maine we're the snowmobilers shot and killed a moose with a glock handgun attacked him on his snow go.

It was and it was also a 10mm G20. Shots made within 10-15ft, and he did go down pretty quick. But that was quite a few shots too.

To the OP, I'd pick one load and stick with it. 147gr loaded as hot as possible within reason, it'll be effective on small game and get at least close to penetration you'll need. Obviously a HP would be a exercise in futility on both fronts. I too would recommend a bigger caliber as 9mm has proven inadequate on men plenty of times. .40 would be a better choice to at least get some more weight at similar velocity.

[Magana559]

The high and mighty .223 bear hunters.

Seriously guys use a gun with at least 150gr as respect for the animal. 223 disintegrate on impact with bone.

[huntersdog]

Yeah I saw how they hunt on TV. A pot shot at long range to wound the caribou so it lays down. Then walk up to it and cut its throat. Not ideal at all IMO.

If you can afford a .243 you can afford to buy a 30-06 or trade the .243 in towards a 30-06.
There is a big difference between hunting and substance living. In the bush, food is food.

Edit: Yes it is legal and in certain areas on Native lands one can take 5 Bou a day and on Federal lands they can take 15 per day per person.

This may rot your socks.


http://youtu.be/e-KOJPax8OI

[huntersdog]

The high and mighty .223 bear hunters.

Seriously guys use a gun with at least 150gr as respect for the animal. 223 disintegrate on impact with bone.
Thank you, for you for your opinion, I will make a note of that. Real hunters will skill to hunt bear with a .223 get well within 100 yards or less. That is a hunter. Give it try, you may like the challenge.

[huntersdog]

Thanks for clarifying.

Your welcome. I will admit when I dinked up something.

[dkf]

There is a big difference between hunting and substance living. In the bush, food is food.

Edit: Yes it is legal and in certain areas on Native lands one can take 5 Bou a day and on Federal lands they can take 15 per day per person.

This may rot your socks.


The kills in the video are rather quick and humane kills. Not much different than putting one in the brain stem of a steer. I get that it is not the hunt but to put food on the table.

Shooting to wound so you can get to the animal to finish it off is what I don't care for at all. Use a weapon that allows you to a good clean shot and quick kill.

[gray wolf]

Give it try, you may like the challenge.
I don't think your point has to be driven home any harder,
I guess some people think hunting game with a sub caliber makes a man a hunter.
I'm not sure who your trying to convince that your point is valid, For the record I am not one of them.
I am certainly not trying to slam your efforts or change your mind, or insult you in any way.


Real hunters will skill to hunt bear with a .223 get well within 100 yards or less. That is a hunter. Give it try, you may like the challenge.

Now as far as insults go, I find your above post to be insulting and a tad troubling.
If I lived any more in the bush I would be on another Planet, And I don't think of myself as a fake hunter, I am as real as you will get. Let us know how the real hair on your real hunter body stands up when a Bear charges you and your 223

I have to let this post go, I can't deal with the logic.

[mdi]

Can you keep all shots inside a 4" circle at say, 25 yards? Are all the shots for deer less than 25 yards? A lot of deer were killed with a .22 and some even with a big stick, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea (I worked in a slaughter house for a while and those 1,000 lb. steers were killed with a .22 short, but I'd never attempt that at even 2 feet...).

[williamwaco]

:dung_hits_fan:

[huntersdog]

Give it try, you may like the challenge.
I don't think your point has to be driven home any harder,
I guess some people think hunting game with a sub caliber makes a man a hunter.
I'm not sure who your trying to convince that your point is valid, For the record I am not one of them.
I am certainly not trying to slam your efforts or change your mind, or insult you in any way.



Now as far as insults go, I find your above post to be insulting and a tad troubling.
If I lived any more in the bush I would be on another Planet, And I don't think of myself as a fake hunter, I am as real as you will get. Let us know how the real hair on your real hunter body stands up when a Bear charges you and your 223

I have to let this post go, I can't deal with the logic.

Rolls eyes! Try SW Alaska sometimes.

[huntersdog]

Time to let this thread die off. To many panties getting all twisted up.

[dkf]

I was not a aware in order to be a "real hunter" you had to use inadequate or barely adequate calibers to kill game. LOL.

[Love Life]

If it's all you got then...well...it's all you got. Load em' hot, get close, an shoot em' where it kills em'. You don't always need a 45-70 for a 50 lb deer...

I neither condone nor criticize your choice as only the person pulling the trigger can make the call about what is right for them.

I mean, seriously, look at all the gut shot deer that have been hit with "Adequate" calibers. Nothing made me madder during hunting season than when someone would show me their hunting photos of fresh kills and the stomach and other organs were hanging out of the cavity after a poorly place shot pushed them out.

[Harter66]

Interesting thread here .

I would go w/130-140 gr boolit for the 9mm. Heres why, the point of returns ends in the 9mm at about 135 gr . I mean its too heavy to push faster and the lighter faster boolit is actually higher energy and the same or greater tissue disruption. In my research and use the 9mm is in a dead heat w/ the 38 special except that the 38 runs heavier boolits faster at half the pressure.

Recently I had the chance to shoot several game animals w/a 45 Colts carbine. 1 of the hogs should have been in a heap w/a high shoulder back break. Instead the boolit took a side trip through a lung and a humoral vessel and was finished staggering 200 yd away. A second took a double lung heart damage shot through the shield staggering about 10 ft and collapsing dead the 3rd dropped like a rock shot inside the rt shoulder and out just inside the left ham. The 263 gr Lee 452-252 makes a big hole, and eclipses the 357.

I really like the 7.5 RBH in 45 Colts

[dakotashooter2]

Just don't use it on something that bites back. I once dumped 5 rounds in the boiler room of a badger and did it ever make him mad. A head shot finally calmed him down.

[mdi]

I wouldn't think anyone in Alaska would use a 9mm for anything except shootin' people...

[Love Life]

Just don't use it on something that bites back. I once dumped 5 rounds in the boiler room of a badger and did it ever make him mad. A head shot finally calmed him down.

Badgers are scary!! <---I say that with all seriousness.

[xacex]

I would love one of those shorty 300AAC Honey badgers! The blast on my 8.5" is bad enough, but the bite of those shortys will wake up your sinuses.

[NVScouter]

I agree if you can shoot the heck out of the pistol and limit yourself to bow range why not? If I had a doe tag and was out hiking with a doe staring at me at 50 feet...dead doe. 125g+ depending on your pistol heavier boolits may give diminishing returns.

I would stipulate this as a pot gun scenario instead of primary hunting arm.

Close shots, great accuracy, full size 9mm (no compacts), cast only, shots for penitration kills, etc.

.223 for bears? better have milsurp ammo...my antelope I took this year .223 65g gamekings was a frontal shot. Love that combo gives about 10" penitration and a nice mushball at the end. 10" of penitration on bear is a recipe for a mauled hunter.

[dubber123]

If it REALLY is your only option, and you REALLY need a deer, go for it. I wouldn't count on a quick kill due to tissue disruption, but would look for through and through penetration of the heart/lungs area. I would imagine it would kill as well as an average bow shot. If you can shoot it good enough to guarantee such a hit, and you limit your range and shots to assure good placement, I think it would work fine.

Hitting what you are aiming at is the most important thing. I'd rather see you hunting with a 9mm you shoot really well than see the guy with the scoped .454 at the last boar hunt I was on. Qualification was 3 shots on a pie plate at 25 yds. He nicked the top edge of the plate with a single shot. The other 2 missed.

[robertbank]

SW Alaska is no different than NW BC. We have Columbia Black tails up here that can get as big as 100lbs, sometimes more. The ones on the Charlottes aren't much bigger than a large dog. Yes you can hunt them with pistol carbines - no handguns but that is a much different topic.

A former friend from Texas who passed away a few years ago wrote articles on his hunting deer in Texas with his FN Hi-Powers in 9MM. I have a very +P+ load he used to kill his small Texas deer.

We all have different opinions based upon our own personal experiences and shooting and hunting ability. Too, there are deer and there are deer.

Please refrain from personal insults but do post your own personal opinions.

Take Care

Bob

[Whitespider]

I think a hard cast 9mm 147gr FP would be plenty for deer.

So do I‼ Although I don't believe "hard cast" is a prerequisite, and any cast FP in the 125-150(ish) range would be "plenty". The 9mm wouldn't be my choice... but... I have over a dozen other choices at my disposal. Heck I wouldn't "choose" the .40, 10mm, .45 ACP, or even the .357 Magnum... but they're legal in this state, and plenty of guys use them successfully.

I personally don't believe "ethics" have anything to do with boolit diameter or cartridge power. Rather, in my mind, an "ethical" hunter knows the limitations of the cartridge, firearm, and most importantly his personal ability with them... and then chooses his shots accordingly. In comparison to many areas of the country, we have big deer here in Iowa; a 150 lb deer is camp meat. I've killed, or seen killed, likely something close to 500 deer over the years (our group harvested between 15 and 25 deer each season for years)... I've seen them drop from a .22 rimfire as though struck by lightening, and I've seen them run over a mile after a 12 gauge slug clipped both lungs.

If the 9mm is a legal cartridge in your state, and a 9mm is what you own... well.
Develop a load using whatever FP 125-150 grain boolit shoots best in it, practice with it and learn your personal limitations (for me that, would be keeping all off-hand shots in a 6-inch circle... and then I'd subtract 15 yards or so), and pick your appropriate shot. The majority of deer I've shot have been inside 50 yards, with a few inside 10 yards (the longest I can remember was 135 paces)... I'm not so sure I'd use a 9mm out to even 50 yards (unless it's a lot more accurate than the ones I've shot), but 35-40 yards seem appropriate for broadside lung shots. The .32(ish) caliber, muzzle-loaded round ball kept a lot of people eating venison in this country for near two centuries...