Lyman 429421 with Contender.

[djgoings]

I recently purchased a G1 Contender with a 10" 44 Rem Mag barrel. Mounted a 4x Leupold on it, using Warne and Leupold hardware. Started off by shooting 240 XTP (.430") bullets using 23grs of H4227. No problem grouping 3-4" at 100 meters. Barrel looked pretty clean after 20 shots. Switched over to my Lyman 429421 (sized to .430") with 18grs of 2400 and BAC lube. First 100 meter group was about 8". Shot a few groups at 50 meters then went back to 100 meters. Only hitting a 1 foot square target about half the time now. The barrel looked like there was leading. Took the gun home and about the first 1" of the rifling had some leading. Cleaned out pretty easy using the wire brush with chore boy. My 429421 are made with 50% WW (clip-on) and 50% linotype. Tests about 17BHN. I have shot many of these same bullets thru my S&W's and Dan Wessons (10" barrel) with one change. I have always used 50-50 lube, instead of BAC. Accuracy was pretty good with the revolvers with little or no leading. I'm planning on loading up more 429421 with the 50-50 lube and seeing how these shoot in the 10" contender. Also need to shoot some of the 429421 loads with BAC through my revolvers and check for leading. I have about (6) different 44's that I shoot, so I'm trying to avoid having different loads for each gun.

[44man]

Dump the 4227's. NOT good in the .44 as velocity will increase as the gun gets warm. Go to H110 or 296.

[gray wolf]

I have about (6) different 44's that I shoot, so I'm trying to avoid having different loads for each gun.
Good luck, but I think your endever will be a bit of a challenge. Do you have the stats for all six guns ?
Barrel groove and or cylinder mouth measurements. It's up to you to set your standard for accuracy, But it's been my experience that unless you want a general purpose so, so , load, each firearm needs to be treated as an individual.

One gun may like one load and the another gun my need a change in powder weight, or a different powder all together. Or a different bullet.

I test every rifle or pistol as an individual, and look for the best accuracy possible, changing components if need be. From what you describe about your shooting with a 10 in barrel and the scope your using, I would say your load development needs a lot of work. Were you shooting from a good rest ?

[Larry Gibson]

Couple problems; the Contender barrel is a completely different animal than any revolver because of the short throat and lack of a barrel/cylinder gap. Velocities will be much higher in the Contender, especially with the slower powders such as H4227. A maximum load (I used 23 gr with the 429421 and the 44-250-KT) will produce as much as 200 - 300 fps more in the Contender and rifle barrels as in the revolver barrels. I have shot a lot of H4227 through all my own .44 Magnums including my Contender Barrel with the 429421 and the 44-250-KT. Not wanting to get into a long discussion with 44man but I've chronographed a lot of loads in numerous revolvers, several rifles and several Contenders (also pressure tested a lot of loads in a Contender barrel) and never found the velocities or the pressures increase as the gun gets warm any more so with H4227 than with 2400 or H110 for example.

Then your COWW/linotype alloy is very antimony rich and tin poor which probably the cause of the leading or antimonal washing of the bore. I suggest adding 2 % tin to the COWWs and try that w/o adding any linotype. Or use the Lyman formula for #2 alloy with the linotype. I let my bullets AC and age harden for 7 - 10 days. The BHN should be 14 +/- with that alloy. I also use NRA 50/50 lube in the past (Javelina and Tamarac) But have been using BAC for last couple years with complete success.

Additionally with PB'd cast bullets such as the 429421 in a Contender or a rifle barrel the velocity increase when using an excellent max load for a revolver many times simply is pushing the PB'd bullet too hard for accuracy. Having learned that I don't even shoot any magnum level max revolver loads using PB'd cast bullets in Contenders or rifles any more. The accuracy is just not going to be there. I use medium level load for the revolver which then give magnum level velocities (1300 - 1450+ fps) in the Contender. However, GC'd cast bullet magnum level revolver loads almost always give excellent accuracy in the Contender and rifles.

I currently have three 44 Magnum revolvers and the Contender. I have accepted the fact that magnum level loads with any PB'd cast bullet is just not going to shoot well in the Contender regardless of how well they shoot in the revolvers. Thus I use the same mid level loads (usually 8.5 or 9 gr Unique under the 429421 or 44-250-KT) but not the magnum loads with 2400 or with H4227. I do use any of the GC'd cast bullet loads in the Contender.

Larry Gibson

[mdi]

I have 5, .44 Magnums and I have found each has it's own preference. Some loads will do well in more than one gun, but some will work quite well in only one gun, so I have 4 "perfect" loads (bullets, powders, and charge) for individual guns. Not a problem for me, I enjoy reloading and I keep fairly good records. All I do id make a note on my labels; "629" or "Puma", "SBH", etc. My 10" Contender will shoot the '421s pretty good (WW alloy, air cooled), but I'm sizing them to .432" and using Caranuba Red as lube and 2400 for ummph. I believe the leading at the beginning of the barrel would indicate a too small bullet...

[djgoings]

"From what you describe about your shooting with a 10 in barrel and the scope your using, I would say your load development needs a lot of work. Were you shooting from a good rest ?"

I was shooting from a good rest. I thought a 3" 5-shot group at 100 meters was pretty good. Could the group size get much smaller with a 44Mag contender w/4x leupold? Most of my handgun shooting is done off-hand at silhouette targets (50-200 meters). My 429421 bullet with 18grs of 2400 w/50-50 lube shoots well in 4 or 5 revolvers of mine. I switched over to BAC lube instead of 50-50 lube. This is my first time I got a chance to shoot the 429421 with BAC. Going to see how these BAC loads shoot in my revolvers as well. Can't believe it's a lube issue, but you never know.

[captaint]

dj - As one "might oughta", you might oughta try a little softer alloy. Not sure your alloy needs to be as hard as all that. 44man might disagree, but it's worth a try. The 50/50 lube should be fine also. Try to get that boolit to seal up a little sooner. Mike

[djgoings]

Thanks for all the comments. Larry's response gave me some great stuff to consider.

[ShooterAZ]

I struggled a little bit with my 44 Contender. I have a brand new 12" barrel on an old frame, not that it matters. My .430 boolits would lead in front of the chamber. I kept fiddling with it, and found that .431 or .432 was the ticket for this particular barrel, even though it slugged just under.429. I did get some different molds to do it (Noe). My RCBS 44 250KT was casting at .430, and I beagled it to get it sized to .431. I have been using alloys of both 2.5/2.5/95 and WW + 2% tin with good success. I use BAC, 2500, and CR, they all work well. No more leading even at top velocities.

[44man]

You can shoot softer in a tender or rifle then from a revolver. Gas checks will let them work.
Shooting IHMSA will show how hot a gun gets. Everyone on the line using 4227 in the .44 revolvers had trouble, shots would get lower and lower as the guns heated. My last ram had the bullet hit 50 meters short with 16 clicks higher then normal. 296 solved it.
The 357 max loves 4227 though.
I would hit the first steel dead center, then lower and lower, kept adding clicks, even looked down the side of my gun a few times, thought the barrel was bending down! 4227 has not been in my .44's since 1980. I never chronograph ed it but the only reason to keep shooting lower was a velocity increase. Primers got dead flat. Cussing on the line had to be heard to believe.
The 240 Hornady SIL bullet used 23.5 gr of 296, The 240 XTP loves 24 gr, all my .44 loads use a Fed 150 primer. These loads worked in every .44, I owned 8 at one time and all my friends with .44's use the exact same loads, Ruger's of all kinds and S&W's too. Most accurate was the SRH and SBH Hunter. Old model 29 also deadly, grip sensitive though. Bisley sensitive.
I still have my old SBH and it did this for a drop test at 200 yards, yes only 3 shots but 1-5/16". 104228

[44man]

I designed the boolit to get the ogive close to the cone angle, made the mold myself. It weighs 330 gr and I use 21 gr of 296 with a fed 150, Felix lube. I had a 75 yard setting on the red dot. Lots of drop at 200.
Meplat is 80%. Deer buster supreme, good as the Lee 310. My boolit has done under 1" at 100 yards. The RD 265 does 1-1/4" at 100 using 22 gr of 296 out of every .44 so far. I have never had to change a single load for any .44, even a Taurus did 1/2" at 50.
I never had a Tender in .44 though so am not much help.
I can't argue with Larry much but I will all day about 4227's in the .44! [smilie=s:

[captaint]

Well, don't stop now. I'm just starting to learn something about these 44's - which I should shoot more of.. Enjoying the thread... Mike