Long GC'ed bullet in a short neck

[Hook]

I would like to get y’all’s opinion on something. Several years ago, I came across several hundred cast bullets that had gas checks seated on them but without sizing or lube. They miked 0.314” and weigh about 180 gr.They had been very neatly stored in old cardboard ammo boxes. A couple of years ago, I lubed some with Lee liquid alox and loaded them over a light load of 2400 in 7.62X39 cases. In my CZ 527, they shot very well, sometimes approaching 1” at 100 yards. I know you’re not supposed to seat gas checks below the neck, but it worked well and apparently the GCs are staying put or the accuracy would be awful.

I was loading some more this past week and realized I’d used the powder charge from a 38-55 cast load (proving once again that you don’t need to load from memory) and had to break the loads down. The gas checks all came off and stayed in the case, causing me to have to discard them. The entire process made me rethink shooting these in the 7.62X39.

What would happen if a GC came off in the case before I fired it? Should I rethink shooting these long GC’ed bullets in the CZ? Here is a picture of the bullet, a loaded round, and a group I shot yesterday measuring a little under 2”. As you can see, the bullet shank and GC sit well down into the case below the neck.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Hook67/rufus006_zps505fb7a0.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Hook67/media/rufus006_zps505fb7a0.jpg.html)

[Larry Gibson]

As mentioned before on similar thread topics; "sometimes you get away with it." There are numerous variables that will determine whether you get away with seating the GC below the case neck or not. By "get away with it" I don't mean anything drastic will happen. Most often just a loss of accuracy is the result. While your accuracy is good is it the best for that rifle? The combination of the bullet hardness and the "light load of 2400" are probably conducive to the accuracy you obtained which is quite serviceable. I wouldn't hesitate shooting up the rest of those bullets with that load.

Have you used a cast bullet of better design such as the C312-155-1R that keeps the GC inside the case neck in that rifle?

Larry Gibson

[Tatume]

An expedient that will allow you to use your bullets with confidence is to switch to a compressed load.

[catskinner]

I don't believe there is any serious problem with gc's loaded below the neck/shoulder junction. I've shot a lot of 300 Savage that way.

[randyrat]

I run into a long cast bullet and a short neck loading the 7mm08...I think a gas check falls off once in a while, because accuracy goes crazy once in a while. I only run into this when I don't have a full load. Fill that case with powder is my solution.

[dilly]

My hypothesis is this, and as far as I can tell it is untestable.

A pulled bulled pulls the bullet out, leaving the gas check behind sometimes. A fired bullet pushes from behind, meaning the check at the very least goes forward. Whether they stay attached when they leave the muzzle is related but a different story.

If you had a pie in a tin pie pan, and held it upside down, the pie would fall out. That doesn't imply that if you threw the pie by launching its pan that the pan would fall off.

[popper]

You could powder coat them then the GC will NOT come off when fired. Yes they may when pulling.

[BNE]

THANK YOU FOR THIS QUESTION!! I just did the same thing today and wondered if it was a problem.

[Hook]

Thanks, everyone. Until I have a problem, I guess I'm gonna keep loading these and shooting away.

I do like the idea of using a full case of powder to help keep the GCs on. Anyone care to suggest a powder and charge weight that would do a good job?

[selmerfan]

I shoot more than one gun that I regularly load the GC below the neck. I have not seen accuracy suffer from this practice.

[44man]

A loose check might fall off but not a good fit. I never seen a problem with any bullet/boolit below the neck.

[Larry Gibson]

Whether you "see" a problem or not is dependent on numerous things as mentioned. If accuracy or higher velocity is the name of the game then you will "see" it. Those who load for accuracy and/or velocity successfully do not seat the GCs below the case neck. For example; my own Mini MK X bolt action 7.62x39 will run the very same 2 - 2.5" or so groups (10 shot run closer to 3" on average) with a 170 gr GB 314291 very similar to the bullet pictured. The GCs have to be seated about the same distance below the necks as shown. That's "ok" except the Lee 312-155-1R and a GB 314-150-WFN bot shoot pretty consistent 1 - 1.5" with 10 shot groups. I can also give you many, many examples using the .308W, the .223, the 22-250 and other cartridges.

As I stated earlier; " I wouldn't hesitate shooting up the rest of those bullets with that load. Just because one finds 2" accuracy to be usable doesn't mean a better designed bullet that keeps the GC inside the neck won't shoot better. Thus my suggestion to the OP is that when you buy a mould for that rifle get a bullet design that fits the cartridge. Other wise you are probably settling for second best.

Larry Gibson

[DR Owl Creek]

... " I wouldn't hesitate shooting up the rest of those bullets with that load. Just because one finds 2" accuracy to be usable doesn't mean a better designed bullet that keeps the GC inside the neck won't shoot better. Thus my suggestion to the OP is that when you buy a mould for that rifle get a bullet design that fits the cartridge. Other wise you are probably settling for second best.

Larry Gibson

That's always been my understanding too...

Dave

[Calamity Jake]

You can with a pair of tweezers turn the GC sideways and pull it out saving everything for future use.

[Elkins45]

You can with a pair of tweezers turn the GC sideways and pull it out saving everything for future use.

Or hemostats, or needle nosed pliers. Go get those cases out of the trash.

[bandmiller2]

The only real danger would be if the check got turned sideways and remained in the barrel, an obstruction for the next shot. If you could easily check the barrel between shots no harm using them. Frank C.