Evidence of a hot load.

[JeffinNZ]

I was dumpster diving at the range this morning with Mike. Recovered 3-4lb of brass and found this little gem. It USED to be a .308 Winchester.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/DSCN4617_zps9655d088.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/JeffinNZ/media/Shooting%20stuff/DSCN4617_zps9655d088.jpg.html)

Primer pocket measures .238 and the head measures .481 inch. They should be .205 and .468!!! The flash hole is about double what is should be also.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/DSCN4615_zpsb6a06556.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/JeffinNZ/media/Shooting%20stuff/DSCN4615_zpsb6a06556.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/DSCN4614_zps6368c521.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/JeffinNZ/media/Shooting%20stuff/DSCN4614_zps6368c521.jpg.html)

I would hate to think what the load was.

[Outpost75]

Proof loads in 7.62 NATO are about 70,000 psi and usually do not drop a crimped in primer, although they may if the primer is not crimped, as in commercial, rather than military high pressure test (HPT) cartridges, and the case head hardness is less than 180 Vickers DPH.

Your case shows pressure well in excess of that, similar to that produced when an FMJ ball bullet is lodged in the throat by firing a primed case with no powder, then chambering a standard round of ball ammunition behind the lodged bullet and firing it. Firing a "double-bullet" proof results in a chamber pressure of about 80,000 psi,and will result in a broken left locking lug on TRW M14 rifle bolts which were not differentially heat treated. I have done this in the lab many times. Firing by remote control in a proof box, of course.

[Reg]

I would say this one was right on the verge of going "grenade ".

[bruce drake]

Noting the impression of the bolt head's ejector on the base of the case, I'm thinking that the fellow got a bit more than he was expecting. You guys know what your club members shoot? Probably pretty easy to figure out who has a 308 Win rifle registered with the club.

Bruce

[JeffinNZ]

Noting the impression of the bolt head's ejector on the base of the case, I'm thinking that the fellow got a bit more than he was expecting. You guys know what your club members shoot? Probably pretty easy to figure out who has a 308 Win rifle registered with the club.

Bruce

Lots of folks shoot .308 and we don't keep a register. We're not Democrates.

[Bullshop Junior]

That was a bit hot. It appears to have been a reload. Find any other brass that and sizer die marks?

[bruce drake]

But there are Social Democrats there?

Don't worry about it. We are starting to call Democrats for what they are now a days here in the States...Communists.

Bruce

[str8shot426]

Novice reloader, no mentor, .........reloading is easy!, just fill up the case with some powder and put a bullet on top. Who needs a manual.

Scary, but they are out there.

[popper]

Did you find the hammer also?

[44man]

That looks like an SEE event. Bullet moved out, stopped, then the powder went off. Bore obstruction.

[Shiloh]

I would say this one was right on the verge of going "grenade ".

+1.

One of my fellow shooters found a .308 fired from a .30-06. Looks a rimless straight walled .45-70 case. I'd like to have it for my collection.

Shiloh

[MtGun44]

Wow! When you consider that a proof round is somewhere around 70-75,000 psi, and
the case looks normal - I'm betting that was out in the 90-100,000 psi range and RIGHT
on the verge of the head letting go totally which would typically splinter the stock on a
conventional rifle and blow the mag floor plate out or at least bulge it.

Somebody was learning about reloading, it would seem. Hope they understood the
lesson, it was very nearly an expensive one. I have (fortunately) never managed to
produce a case that looks even remotely like that.

Bill

[Blammer]

my guess is that it was fired in a semi auto, note the torn rim from an extractor claw.

[JeffinNZ]

my guess is that it was fired in a semi auto, note the torn rim from an extractor claw.

You could be correct. I wonder if it is ex a dreaded Norinco M305 and firing slightly out of battery?

[dougader]

Either that, or the bolt was so stuck it had to be beaten open...

[bruce drake]

Norinco 305s still selling there in NZ despite the known issues with them? Since Clinton banned the import of Norinco firearms, I have not seen them on the ranges here in the US as often.

And now with Obama banning Russian imports, it seems like we'll be limited to Italian, Korean and Japanese imported firearms soon enough.

Bruce

[BNE]

.... I have (fortunately) never managed to
produce a case that looks even remotely like that.

Bill

Probably because you know how to read and show respect for the tools you work with!!

[JeffinNZ]

Norinco 305s still selling there in NZ despite the known issues with them?

Yes but not to this little black duck. Cheap you see. Some folk just can't be told.

[Shiloh]

Probably because you know how to read and show respect for the tools you work with!!

Well put. ;)

Shiloh

[JeffinNZ]

The president of our club asked me to include something in the next newsletter. I said there's no point because clearly the perp can't read.

[trixter]

Lots of folks shoot .308 and we don't keep a register. We're not Democrates.


I love your quote and reply!!

[Tar Heel]

How does the neck look? If it now looks like a straight-walled pistol case, it was probably fired in a .270 like this one was.

104216

104217
L-R: .270 Win, 308 Fired in 270, fired 308 case

BTW this case (cartridge) was fired in a Ruger M77. We had to BEAT the bolt open with a #2 maul which bent/broke the bolt handle. Ruger builds strong rifles.

[303Guy]

So it's been suggested that it was a double bullet 'load'. That can happen and nearly happened to me in a No4. I was lucky in that I was using a near case filling powder so the bullet of the second round couldn't push back far enough to chamber. I hate to think of what would have happened it it did. But the point is that is a reasonable explanation of what might have happened. A SEE is possible too but I wonder whether a anyone would be loading reduced loads in a 308. Usually folks want more performance, not less. The wrong powder is possible too. I do lean toward an empty case pushing the bullet into the throat on primer power resulting in a double bullet on the next round. Bad loading practice! I know - I did it too! I tightened up my procedures big time after my scare.

You could try asking around. Unless the shooter was alone at the time, someone ought to have witnessed it.

[Stephen Cohen]

The president of our club asked me to include something in the next newsletter. I said there's no point because clearly the perp can't read.
Well put, you certainly have his or her IQ level pegged.

[PAT303]

Reading replies on other forums I'm not supprised by this,some of the velocities quoted by shooters and posting up loads that are way over book max's are the norm. Pat

[Tar Heel]

Having worked as a Range Officer on three ranges, it has been my observation that incidents like the subject incident are caused by:

1. Wrong ammunition in the gun. "It looks like a 30-30 so I bought 30-30 ammo." It was actually a 35 Rem.
2. Failure to READ the owners/instruction manual for the safe & proper operation of the firearm.
3. Failure to check the bore for obstructions BEFORE firing the gun after any period of time. (Spiders, corrosion, cigarette butts, mud, wasps, stuck bullets)
4. Ignorant reloading practices like pulling military ammo and putting 220gr bullets in a case/charge designed for a 168gr bullet. "A bullet is a bullet."
5. Too many types of ammunition at one range session. Things get hectic, shooters get distracted, BOOM!
6. Week-End handloaders who really should not be handloading ammunition making ridiculous assumptions and careless choices.
7. Failure to follow prescribed loading guidelines for propellant choice and volume. The work has already been done for you by engineers with a zillion years of college but you are smarter than the collective intelligence and experience pool of Winchester, Accurate, Hodgdon, Speer, Sierra, Hornady, IMR, Norma, right?
8. And finally...."I saw this load online and figured I'd try it."

I have witnessed a LOT of destroyed firearms and personal injuries due to dumb-*** stunts like the above. Fortunately nobody was killed - yet. I am continually AMAZED at the strength of most firearms from reputable manufactures and the abuse they can withstand.

[opos]

Nothing wrong with that load...1/2# of C-4 with a 400 grain "Unobtanium" projectile....He got it on the web so it must be right on.