Day at the range = almost getting shot

[gray wolf]

Well men don't ever make the statement ( now Ive seen it all ) I thought I had but today proved me wrong.

Got up this morning and Julie insisted I take a little time to myself and go shooting.
Wow great idea Eh ? so I packed up the range bag, got a holt of a target and a frame, put togeather some 357 ammo and whatever else would fit in my pockets.

The 10 mile drive was nice, all country road. When I pulled up to the gate I found an SUV blocking it and two folks inside the range, I honked the horn and the gent came to the gate complaining the lock was broke and the combination wouldn't work, I pulled down on the lock and it opened.
Told him he needed to eat a bigger breakfast, he laughed and move his truck and I drove it.

He was there with his wife, both were in there late fifties, they had two S&W 357 revolvers on the bench, a box of 38 and a box of mags. We chatted a few minutes and I put my target at the same 10 yards there target was at. Take note here, my target is 5 feet to the left of there target and in line with it at the 10 yard mark. Side by side.
No one had a pistol in hand at this time, I walked down to my target and was bent over trying to get it inline with my bench. All of a sudden three shot ring out and I hit the ground, I turned and the Stupid dam Women was in front of the shooting bench ( wrong ) and blasting away at her target 5 feet to my exact right.

Men I became unglued on the spot, I started yelling at her to stay the dam Fu--ing pistol and stop shooting, I yelled at her, !!!! what the hell are you doing you crazy bit-h can't you see I'm 5 feet away from your target ? and what the H-ll are you doing in front of the shooting bench.

I ripped into her for a steady non stop 10 minutes while her husband sat at the bench with his head down reading the label on the ammo box in his hand and not saying a word. He must have read the same paragraph 20 times. I had my tiger stripe field jacket on but cheese I don't think I was invisible. When I ran out of different ways to yell at here she went and sat in her car while her dumb A$$ husband proceeded to tell me about the pistol course she had taken.

I have seen a lot of dumb, stupid things at shooting ranges but this had to be the DUMBEST ever.
What the hell was this women thinking ( not thinking ) And on what planet was the husbands brain on to allow her to pick up a loaded 357 and start blasting with someone a few feet away from the place her bullets were hitting.

The last time I was getting shot at at least I was getting paid to be fodder.
I can't believe the blatant stupidity of some people, I just can't fathom the dept it goes.

Folks !! you just can't let your guard down for a darn minute, not even on a nice sunny day at the range ( especially these days, and especially with the mentality of the people out there )

There voting, and breeding while I type this.
Stay safe and make sure when you go out, you make it home.


Sam

[Archey]

Glad that you are safe Sam. I have packed up my gear and left the range in a hurry more than once when I see people acting stupid but I have never seen anything that stupid!

[rockrat]

Think I would talk to the membership director and have them booted out of the club for that violation. Glad you are OK physical wise (except for maybe blood pressure!!).

[DougGuy]

They need a range exam. A WRITTEN one. It should cover what to do in any situation you or another shooter may encounter. It should FULLY STRESS the importance of knowing when the range is HOT and when it is NOT! Range etiquette is not really something they teach in any CCW or self defense course. When I first started shooting on ranges, it was a different discipline that I had to learn. I admit it was a bit foreign at first but I caught on really quick. The ones that scare me are the ones that turn around to see if you are looking or to tell you something, WITH a loaded gun in their hand, sweeping everyone in their turn radius with a loaded firearm, that chances are, is NOT on safe. Go figure.

You did right Sam by lighting her up, that is one of the worst things anyone can do at a range, that is 1% shy of actually shooting someone.

[texassako]

Glad you are safe! The range I go to has a rep for grumpy range officers. I never see it early in the morning and they pretty much ignore me, but once the crowd starts showing up they really change moods. I took the hint as well after a few stays later into the day when the real idiots start showing up. I am counting down the days my number comes up for a local private club, but your experience and other stories show it may not be any safer.

[blademasterii]

I am happy that even though my range is kinda pricey to join and not a cheap yearly membership, you have to go through an nra instructor taught safety meeting. You are graded on experience and range time as well. Guests are also required to provide a shooting history and sometimes a few shots with the rangemaster present before they are allowed to shoot with the member. Any unsafe activity and you are met by the range master. If he determines it was accidental or at least unintentional it is corrected on the spot and you can continue to shoot. If he determines you are simply unsafe you will be sent packing immediately and possibly range badge revoked permanently. There is a review board if you feel you were wrongly accused.

[gray wolf]

It's not any safer, dumb seems to be allowed to go anyplace these day's.
We don't have a steady RO at the range, only on special shoot days but all members have to singe at the bottom of the range rule page when they join.
Oh I will talk to the man in charge, I have there plate # and I will ask him to have a chat with them and then tell them to shoot someplace else.

[country gent]

I have had this happen years ago to me at our club. We have both a bench area and a position area all on the same range. The wife and I were 100 yds down range when a guy shooting at 50 touched one off. He had went down when we did knew we were down range and going to the 200 yd line. His excuse was they are diffrent lines and dont have to run together. I later found out ( when I turned in his membership number to club officers) this was his second major infraction. Some dont want to learn some dont care and some plain dont care. With the number of new shooters now these incidents will only grow in numbers. I have gotten into the habit of setting up on the far left of the line so I can see whats going on easily. And few are behind me.

[MrWolf]

I was at our range a few weeks ago and it was fairly crowded. We had about 10 folks on the line at the time. Both side of the line repeated we were going "green" which means no loaded firearms, no touching them ,etc. We all go and grab our targets, come back to the line where the RO proceeds to yell at the group. Someone had left a loaded tactical 12ga on the bench. After he hollered first reaction was we didn't do anything wrong it was the one idiot but thought about it and he was right to yell at the group. Now I start looking at the open breeches, etc on the bench before I get in front if the line. Glad you were ok - after reaming her I would have been in his face for allowing it to happen.

[Bullshop]

Don't you have other places to shoot besides a public range? I just drive out to the hills and find a place where I can shoot without any interruptions or distractions. Maybe since I have always lived were there are unlimited places to go shoot where you wont see another person maybe I am just out of touch with what others have available.
I took my 4 girls out today to explore a new canyon. We drove in several miles and then walked a few. Not another person or vehicle in sight. Each Sabbath we explore a new canyon and aren't likely to run out of new places to go for quite some time to come. Its just been this way for me for so long at time I get to thinking its this way for most folks.
I hate to hear stuff like this because I know that those people are an accident waiting to happen. She took some course so now in her mind she is Annie Oakley. She was just strutting her stuff and more than likely expected your praise.
Just so you know some girls are being taught right on our outing today Christian age 13, Grace age 10, Hope age 7, and Joy age, 5
got to take along their BB and pellet guns. We walked in and sat under a big red fir and each had to recite the safety rules before they could have a turn to shoot. Joy needed some help remembering but the three other girls have the rules down.
I am real sorry you had such an experience and though I know its not possible still wish everyone had the freedom of places to shoot that we do. If you ever pass through this part of Montana I would like to take you out to some of our shooting places.
That goes for all CB members. Warning though once you see what we have you may not want to go back home.

[Teddy (punchie)]

wow !!! Holy **** !! Glad you are here to tell us.

She should just not have a gun. Not anything else to say. Pray she learned something for life.

[str8shot426]

This is why I bought a home with room for a private range. Trusted friends and trusted family only.

[gray wolf]

Don't you have other places to shoot besides a public range?
It's not a public range, it's a small private range, that makes the rub even bigger Eh.
It's the people that think they know everything there is to know, when in reality they don't know squat,
new green gun owners with one class under there belt and turned loose on the public.

When I am shooting I watch everyone like a hawk, I have seen most of the mistakes and careless gun handling.
I guess I just never thought someone would start shooting with another person 10 yards down range from them and 5 feet away from there impact area.

What in the hell was this women thinking ? If it was a guy I would have ( better not said )his a$$ on the spot.

[Bad Water Bill]

The range I use is a DNR range with a RO there at all times.

Unfortunately he can not be everywhere at all times.

Many of us OLD folks also watch over the obvious newbies.

One time a 4H newbie pointed a revolver in the wrong direction and I called him on it.

Again he did the same thing but now I told him to pack up and go home.

His answer was "I do not have to do what you say because you are not the range master".

The fellow sitting next to me said you should always pay strict attention to all of the senior shooters here because they have many years of safe shooting under their belt.

The kid started on that man,BIG mistake as that man just happened to be the guy that hires and fires all employees at that DNR.

Mike said in a voice loud enough for everyone at the 25 yard to hear that if he or others doubted we OLD folks can WARN you off the range and if you do not take that "friendly warning" the actual RO will ban you from the use of the range.

With all of the new folks joining our ranks we older folks should watch the range just like we ARE the RO.

Many of us learned to shoot long before ROs watched over us and have called folks for unsafe practices many times before.

We do not want newbies banned for life but we do want them to learn safe shooting practices.

[Bullshop Junior]

I don't like shooting if there are other people around shooting as well. I probably would have come really close to taking that girls gun, unloading and shoving it up her a$$, throwing it as far in some direction as I could, or possible even tackling her if she was still holding it when I turned around.

But even by myself I'm not totally safe if I don't pay attention. I proved that...

[C. Latch]

It's not a public range, it's a small private range

It's not small enough.

:(

[bruce drake]

"There voting, and breeding while I type this."

Mrs. Gray Wolf know you are breeding and typing at the same time...

Ok, just had to lighten the mood.

Now regarding the various obvious safety violations. Silent Hubby probably told her to shoot and was hopefully chastised by your chewing into his Mrs.

Now I also would probably be pretty hot under the collar if this happened to me as well. But Hopefully, you have not closed off a new shooter by your reaction which while most justifiable, may have closed her off from shooting in the future. If you have the ability to determine who it was, then cotact them and offer a few more range lessons as a Public Service. Most pistol safety course are bookwork only with a written test at the end and "MAYBE" a live shoot for them to apply their new skills.

Extend an invite for the young couple to shoot with you in the future. You may be the one that develops her into a stronger person and maybe an Olympian-level shooter in her future.

[Mk42gunner]

Want see me turn into a by the book AH? Put me in charge of a range. There is way too much potential for death, or serious injury, to put up with someone that doesn't know or care about safety rules.

They are building so many five and ten acre hobby farms around here it is difficult to pick a direction that is really safe to shoot. I live on what was my grandparents place. When I was a kid in the 1970's, there were five yard lights you could see at night. a few years ago there were nineteen.

I have been going to one of the Dept of Conservation ranges, but I don't go on weekends, or for the last couple of weeks before deer season. It is unattended, meaning no range personnel; not exactly a safe place to shoot.

Robert

[MaryB]

Range I go to is part of a local gun club. Small group and I often have the range to myself. I refuse to use the pistol range if anyone else it there though. To many idiots. Same for the rifle lanes, at least we have 3 that are separated by large berms so you can change a target when the next lane is busy. Still makes me cringe though when I hear a shot! 15 foot high gravel berm so it is safe

[smokeywolf]

Sam, I'm sure glad you lived to tell this story.

It was nearly 36 years ago that I was last shot at. I still remember the feeling of not being able to make myself small enough and worrying that my horse was going to get shot. Was on horseback; at least until that first shot fluttered by about 12 feet to my right. Shooter (cattle rustler) was about 400+ yards off. I slid off old Stormy horse (in my avatar) so fast you'd have thought there was grease on the saddle.

Seems California doesn't have a monopoly on morons.

The fact that her husband wasn't supervising her makes him at least as big an idiot as she was.

Again, sure am glad you weren't shot. If you didn't die right away, people like that probably would have left you there to bleed out.

smokeywolf

[Frank46]

Had something similar happen at a public range. Guy came in during a cease fire which you aren't supposed to be doing, set up his stuff and fired one round down range. Must have been 30 folks down range checking targets. The RO went ballistic on the guy after he had made sure everyone was ok. This particular range has a yellow line that when a cease fire has been called, everyone not checking targets must be behind the yellow line. the guy packed up his stuff and left. After that big warning signs on the gate telling folks not to enter during a ceasefire.
Our range down here is a private range and wether or not there is a RO present I have been on occasion telling some shooters as to what the deal is during a ceasefire. There is always some guy messing with a firearm during a ceasefire. Usually a friendly word is enough to set him straight. When that fails and they repeatedly break the rules they are politely asked to leave. Only once did one guy get his panties in a bunch. Next thing he knew there were four folks whom I would not want to mess with (I know them all and we fit the catagory of old guys) he was told in no uncertain terms to leave or they would call the cops and have him escorted off the property. We had lost our old range after over 50 years of shooting at that place and the new location everyone is a range officer. Have seen guys while others are shooting start walking down range to check targets. Sometimes you just can't fix stupid. Frank

[popper]

I'm still alive and married to her. But the wife swept me and SIL with a 40 and her finger on the trigger. Stuff happens and sometimes you survive. The older fellow that shot a few rounds then went down range to look at his targets isn't there anymore. A bunch of us yelled ceasefire real loud.

[DHurtig]

I was at a public shooting area several years ago and had a similar situation. This area had 2 benches at 100 yards, 1 at 200 and 1 at 300. I was set up on the right hand bench at 100 when a vehicle went behind me and pulled up to the bench to my left. A guy in his late 40's or early 50's got out with a boy and a girl in their late teens. They set up and we each went about our own business for a while.

After a half an hour or so, I was lining up a shot when I heard a gunshot from behind me. I looked to my left and the man and the girl were there. I turned and looked behind me and the boy was at the 200 yard bench with a rifle pointed down range. When I turned back, the guy was looking at me. I asked " did that kid just shoot between us?" The says " Yeah, why?" I told him that " You better have a talk with that boy because if he sends a bullet past me again, we're going to need a podiatrist and a proctologist to get my boot out of his a$$." He waved the kid back to him. They shared a very quick and quiet conversation and then quickly packed their things and left.

[waksupi]

Wait a minute, wait a minute. Your wife sent you unexpectedly to the shooting range, and you nearly get shot? Maybe she hired an amateur hit woman, who lost her nerve at the last moment!

[clownbear69]

Ive had two similar stories under my belt and im probably younger than you (25).

1st Time: It was my first time shooting in about a year and I went with a federal agent who works at the Consulate in Juarez. Agent awesome guy. We shot all day. He showed me how they train with a Glock (never shot one before that). He complemented me on my shooting stance specially since I never had any formal training. Nonetheless I had my target 7-10 yards away. As I was about to set up and getting in to the zone, two noobs roughly 2 lanes away came running up to their target. Lucky for me mr agent tapped me on the back to alert me. I wouldn't had seen them at all (had my extra dark shades on and just barely hitting my corners of my eyes. They got spooked we told them do what you need to do. Sad thing is they were not at their line for easily 10 minuets hence me going to shoot (they were standing maybe 5 feet from their topic). For sure something I don't want to live to see again.

2 Same range: a father/son and another gentleman were shooting. It was my second time I took my wife shooting. Wife and I barely got to shoot because these people had such poor range etiquette (older gentleman shooting two full mags for his BHP and son with poor shooting stance shooting 3 full 10 rounder for his Mk3). Wife was only shooting my Colt trooper (1 speed loader) and I was shooting the PPQ with 2 mags but 5 round in each nonetheless very low amounts compared to what they were doing. Anyways as I was loading up my mags I hear a lot of yelling and screaming horns honking, dropped my mag backed off. Wife was in the car cooling off and pissed off with the other poor range etiquette we were experiencing. What happened was the older gentleman started shooting at the 25 yard mark when the kid was at the 15 yard mark. RO gave him an earful.

For everyone: Believe it or not you will see this happen a lot more than ever before. With how current laws are happening and potential bans more gun owners came in that we've never seen before. During this last scare I was selling firearms and you wouldn't believe the amount "dummies" you would see want and then buying firearms. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if an actually accidental shooting happens on the range in this manner. Now I know this might sound stupid but Id invent in body armor. Yeah you might look "tacticool" but rather have and not need than need to not have. I recently bought some mainly for this.

OP glad your ok and these are the kinda stories that need to sent to the higher ups at any ranges.

[Bad Water Bill]

ALWAYS watch like you are the RO.

If you see unsafe things mention it to the shooter .

Many are new and not familiar with the rules and may not be aware that there is such a thing as a training course on gun safety available.

Someone must show them safety at the range,why not us?

Yes I watch folks with big magazines empty the whole mag in 15-20 seconds and I shake my head because there is very little accuracy there.

But it is their $$$$$ and I generally get to pick up the once fired brass for free.

Yes one day 550 rounds of Win 45 ACP and another time 38# of Win 223 ALL MINE:bigsmyl2:

[tomme boy]

I've been shot at so many times I hardly even flinch at the range anymore when this same sh*t happens to me. It's at least 1-2 times every weekend. Actually had bullets landing 2 feet to my left of me when setting clay pigeons on the berm. That one caused a fight and a broken gun. Have never seen him again.

[MaryB]

That is one good thing out here in very rural MN, most people grew up handling guns of al kinds. With the exception of the occasional transplant from the big city it is rare to run into someone who doesn't shoot.

[Bad Water Bill]

For about 50 years I could visit the town my dad was born in.

I knew every merchant and most farmers for miles around.

Unfortunately most of the older folks have passed away (including my cousin 2 months ago at age 104) and their kids moved to the big city to make lots of money.

They bought up lots of farms and timber and posted every inch they own.

Now their children and grand children blaze away at any and everything with a total disregard for others.

Yes even the phone box on the other side of the road.

I came up to the cabin I had setting on my cousins property for OVER 40 years and found a note CARVED in the door.

LEAVE OR DIE.

On the advice of the State police I left.

The whole area has turned into another "DELIVERANCE" was how the trooper described things.

And this is very rural Wisconsin.

You are very fortunate young lady.

[2wheelDuke]

I've been fortunate enough to have not been shot at, either on or off duty. A couple times I've mentioned at the range that I still have a gun on me when I'm down range, and that I will return fire if someone shoots while I'm out there. That was mostly at a public range with no staff. I've had very few issues at my small private club.

[propwashp47]

sam life is good as long as you are alive. if we the older shooter do not teach those around us proper gun safety who will? bad water bill is right it is up to us to make safety a must for all around us. this is why I have built a range in the back yard. I had to call a cease fire and get the grand kids out of the target zone when the next door Nabors where shooting their back in their backyard. got the range built and had them over for safety training 1st and later some proficiency training. it is my goal to make sure all friends and family receive good training even if the are not gun people. it is a safe bet the will be around a gun at some time in their lives and that training may save some misfortune from happing.

[monge]

Was walking back from checking my target at 100yard line. Looked up some yo yo was handleing a ar pointed down range as I walked back to the bench.I took a deep breath and asked him to rack it , he said he was sorry I told him if I have had my boys with me I would not be so calm. Turned him in to BOD they threw him out of club.

[Bad Water Bill]

Well you proved how much power you have.

Why wouldn't it have been just as easy to show him where he was not practicing safe handling.

Your club is now out a possible life long member and the shooting community will be hearing that WE are an elitist group that is not willing to teach new shooters.

[pdawg_shooter]

uote from gray wolf; I have seen a lot of dumb, stupid things at shooting ranges but this had to be the DUMBEST ever.
What the hell was this women thinking ( not thinking ) And on what planet was the husbands brain on to allow her to pick up a loaded 357 and start blasting with someone a few feet away from the place her bullets were hitting.

That is THE reason my range is in my back yard. If I get shot there, there is only one person to blame!

[Love Life]

Wait a minute, wait a minute. Your wife sent you unexpectedly to the shooting range, and you nearly get shot? Maybe she hired an amateur hit woman, who lost her nerve at the last moment!

This. :bigsmyl2:

I'm glad that you're still here with us. Unfortunately, in today's world, you must take the actions of the mouth breathers into consideration. I believe you handled it quite well.

Some people shouldn't be allowed to cut out paper dinosaurs with safety scissors.

[Thin Man]

Most of the dumb moves told on this topic sound like the work of new, low experienced shooters. I was a witness to one of those back as early as high school. My HS had a rifle team, coached by an active U.S. Army trainer. All applicants for the team(some with experience and some with none) were going through qualification / competition to make the team. The trainer had all shooters fire at prone, then make their rifles safe and he went downrange. After reading each target he would call out sight corrections to the shooter. He was calling out corrections to the 5th shooter on the line. He called out "Up 1, Left 3, and put 2 more rounds in the target" to a shooter. You know what is coming... The trainer was reading the next target when a shot rang out! The #5 shooter he had just spoken to did exactly what the trainer called out! When the shot broke the trainer hit the ground with the speed of light and began screaming as loud as he could to "CEASE FIRE...CEASE FIRE". That #5 shooter got an immediate up close and personal introduction to range etiquette and safety. And, no, he did not make the team.

Thin Man

[Boyscout]

Last fall I got swept several times by a "gentleman" with a lever action. I asked him to watch his muzzle; he acted ticked off. I told the range officer. When he did it again, he was removed from the range. Same day, I witnessed a new shooter with a flat top AR-15 and no sights. His first two rounds hit the concrete baffles above the shooting area. He was ushered out.

Different public range yesterday, kept having people mess around on the bench during cease fires and the range officer seemed oblivious to it all. I was caught picking up some loose lead and he was all over my stuff. Someone said he may have thought I was putting up objects to shoot. I'm not sure. Last time there I was told it was OK as long as others were still putting up targets.

I'm all for hard corp range officers when they are hard on safety. I don't like being the one having to leave the range because someone else is being unsafe. Shooting in non-designated State and Federal areas is a no-go here in Indiana.

[10x]

Think about this for a moment - you travel on two lane highways at 60 to 65 mph every day. You meet on coming traffic traveling at 60 to 64 mph on that highway. They go past you at an impact speed of 120 plus mph at a distance of 7 feet or less. You extend trust that the other driver is competent and will not swerve into you.
Contrast that with what this woman did (totally unacceptable on a gun range).

Because of the rules on gun ranges they are far safer than our highways. You did right to lecture this lady - from the sounds of it her husband probably did not dare.

[alleyoop]

Did you just have to pull the lock open or work the combo, in other words were they even members ? The woman's husband is imo at an even greater fault. This kind of thing is one reason I dis-like a no carry range, I always have a sidearm holstered on my person when I go down range.

[theperfessor]

Glad you're OK Sam. Have you thought that since they couldn't open the lock they may not have even been members?

[MtGun44]

Glad you are OK, pretty scary. Fortunately, our range is pretty safe, but you do keep an eye
on people. I will be putting up a berm on my property this year to get my own range going, too.

perfessor - I understood that he had actually unlocked the lock, just not pulled on it hard enough
to open it.

Bill

[theperfessor]

Bill, after rereading post 1 I think you're right. We use 4 digit Master locks on the gates of our mini-storage facility. If you don't push the hasp down into the body to unlatch it before you pull it open it won't work. I've had to remind numerous renters of that when they call because "the combination won't work".

In any case I'm glad Sam wasn't hurt.

[BruceB]

This kind of thing is one reason I dis-like a no carry range.


"Concealed" means CONCEALED.

I too always have a concealed gun aboard for any range trip. My memory keeps reminding me that , for one extremely prominent example, Platt and Mattix were known for stealing the guns of shooters at ranges and sometimes leaving the victims DEAD.

If you don't already know, "Platt and Mattix" were the violent thugs in the famous Miami Massacre wherein a number of FBI agents were killed or wounded.

Personally, I can give any bad actor a VERY uncomfortable time from a hundred yards or more with my handguns. No, I have no INTENTION to use my guns against anyone, but.... I'm always ready if someone else wants to "open the ball".

I may be old and grey, but I value whatever time I have left and I'm prepared to defend that time "The meanest ol' SOB in the valley" is a fair description, IF people want to try me on.

Also, I waste no time in trying to decide whether-or-not the gun goes along on any particular trip or errand.... it ALWAYS goes along.

[Bloodman14]

A couple of years ago, at a Thanksgiving family get-together, my brother in-law wanted to shoot my .45; so the whole family trooped out to the back field. He is ex-Air Force, and knew the basics. My younger brother is ex-Navy, and KNEW, period! My dad is an ex-cop, but knew revolvers, so needed some basic info. My mom, on the other hand..... she was a Marines wife(divorced him when I was little) and said he had taught her to handle a gun. Oooooooohhhhhhkaaaaaayyyyyyyy; on her first shot, the brass arced through the air and landed in the neck of her blouse and settled in the cleavage. She yelled, then with the still loaded and cocked pistol in her right hand proceeded to hold her chest up with her right hand, trying to fish out the brass with her left,while hopping up and down, turning in circles and thereby pointing the pistol at her chest while covering the ENTIRE family. I yelled at her to stop, was almost to the point of using foul language at her (something I had never done) when she finally dropped the pistol.
I told her as nicely as I could that she was through with guns until she got some intense instruction from me.
The .45 had a ten rounder, down one, and there were 15 people present, including kids. That was too many close calls for one day; I shut it down.

[HeavyMetal]

Sam:
after reading your OP I think you did the right thing in chewing her out and him as well.

However I think you missed a huge "flag" when you arrived: "the gate was blocked and the man says the lock is broke"

The lock wasn't and he did move his car BUT they did not want company PERIOD! I think they played stupid in a very flagrent attempt to scare you off "thier" range!

I suspect a visit with other members will reveal this is not the first time but might be the first time it was reported.

Please follow up with the range Officials, don't be surprised if you find out this was someone's cousin or brother!

This is unacceptable behavior and I have experieinced it at least once in my life in a public shooting area. To long winded a story to tell suffice it to say Bubba and his two kids are still breeding ( to stupid to vote) and I will kick myself for the rest of my life for allowing!

I do hope you post the results of your talk with the range staff, we need to protect ourselves and the remaining places we have to shoot, and every positive decision made public helps the next guy "win" his point of view.

[contender1]

First, to the OP, I'm truly glad you were not hurt. Yes, this woman was totally in the wrong. I also blame her husband for his failure to step up, offer an apology, and to back you up in your "discussion" with his wife.
That said, I want to interject a few thoughts.
A little background first.
I own a gun range. It's private, and yet we also hold USPSA matches here. I am a certified NRA instructor, as well as a certified RO. So, I have a little experience in range operations as well as safety on gun ranges. In USPSA, there are specific safety rules, and all must follow them. Break them, and your match is over & you go home.
One is no gun handling except in a "safe area" (An area designated as such, where you can work on a gun, check things etc, BUT,,, NO and I mean NO ammo handling there.) Or, gun handling in a bay, under the watchful eye of a RO. Those are the only two places. In fact most ranges are considered "cold" upon entry. THAT INCLUDES CCW ETC!!!!!! No gun handling in the parking lot, etc.
Why? Simply put, safety.
If you come to my range, even MY CCW firearm is unloaded & stored properly prior to entry, and I own the place.
I even has issues with a USPSA club member once, who ignored this & was banned. I gave him his "no trespass" and he has not been back here. He was CCW during a match, against club rules.

But let's look at the issue that happened.
I also teach the NRA Women On Target clinics with my wife. We have done so for over 13 years now. We stress safety.
But something about ladies & shooting.
We need MORE ladies shooting, and not less.
Was this lady unsafe? Absolutely.
Did she deserve a corrective discussion? Absolutely.
By how you described it, I have to ask; Did she deserve a screaming, possibly obscene dressing down? Maybe not.
YES,,, a very firm, even elevated voice of discussion can be acceptable. But, I can bet you scared her off of ever shooting again. You may have created an anti-gunner out of her and possibly her husband as well.
Yes, a loudly screamed "Cease Fire" is fully acceptable. Yes, she needed to be taught how unsafe she was. But ranting, raving, cursing, screaming is not the way to properly educate someone.
Before you ask, yes, I have has a couple of similar issues happen to me. Was I upset? Absolutely. But, I took the time to properly educate the offenders instead of scaring the bejesus out of them.
All too often, new shooters do NOT know nor understand the safety rules.
PLEASE understand that I fully appreciate your anger & how upset you were. We are all human. But, maybe you could consider how you reacted & the possibility of losing potential pro-gun voters.
I have taught MANY ladies who came to me without any knowledge of firearms. It sounds like this lady (and her hubby) were in SERIOUS need of some good safe instructions.

Please realize I'm not chastizing you. I just try & look at things a bit differently because I own a range & want nothing more than good safe shooters & want to welcome as many as I can to our side.

[starmac]

Sounds like you met someone too dumb to open a lock, and found out that they were also too dumb to own a gun, Just because it is our right doesn't mean everybody should. Some safety instruction might help, but it may just be a waste of time too.

[monge]

Bad water bill my club has a zero tolerance rule everyone is well informed the rules of safe gun handleing. It only takes one fool to wreck it for everyone else that follows good safe gun handling ,not everyone is cut out to own guns!

[Bad Water Bill]

Great post sir.

Wouldn't it be a good thing to suggest to ladies to wear a T shirt under their blouse when handling ANY firearm.

Time and time again I have heard of females of all ages doing the "hot brass dance".

That has to be a painful experience indeed.

Just a thought.

Why not contact businesses and ask for free T shirts to be handed to the females that need them at your range?

It is great advertising on their part and thanks to THEIR generosity makes your range a safer place to shoot.

Now report back on your success so others can also benefit.

[starmac]

LOL Some of us are not too old to appreciate a hot dance once in a while. lol

[hardy]

I,ll take "ranting,raving,cursing,screaming" any day over "pretty please".I don,t give a hoot if they never touch a gun again!!First impressions,including no regard for others,mean a lot!! Be safe,Mike.

[Bad Water Bill]

LOL Some of us are not too old to appreciate a hot dance once in a while. lol

No I am not that old either .

Next time your wife does the dance tell her how much you enjoyed her dance.

When and IF you get out of the hospital please share with us your experience.:bigsmyl2:

[Bullshop Junior]

Funny how once more a thread has wondered....

[gray wolf]

By how you described it, I have to ask; Did she deserve a screaming, possibly obscene dressing down? Maybe not.Sorry but when someone is shooting at me and in my direction a few feet to my side with my back to them, in front of the shooting bench, your darn right they needed all the correction they/she got. As for what this person may or may not become ? it bothers me not, not one bit. Some people like has been said should not be in the same room with a gun, some shouldn't drive and some should not have offspring.
YES,,, a very firm, even elevated voice of discussion can be acceptable. But, I can bet you scared her off of ever shooting again. I don't think I scared her about anything, Also she was happy to say she took an NRA course. I have witnessed some of this NRA instruction, And to stay friends here lets just say some of it is less than exceptable and poorly done, some are great, but, to put the NRA label on it and call it good just don't fly. I have met some NRA instructors that were fantasic, but I have also met some that were very poor examples of what they were getting paid to do. You may have created an anti-gunner out of her and possibly her husband as well.That's nonsense, I doubt very seriously she or him will turn there attention to being anti gun. The level of chastisement fit the level of incompetence and lack of concern for other people that she presented.

PLEASE understand that I fully appreciate your anger & how upset you were. No Sir, I don't think you really do appreciate how upset I was.We are all human.You are correct on that, and humans bleed when they get shot and I was in no mood to bleed out on some piece of sand at a shooting range. But, maybe you could consider how you reacted & the possibility of losing potential pro-gun voters. I guess you and I have to agree to disagree, I have considered how I reacted, And I did take the time to explain things to her and her husband after the dust settled, fact is I went out of my way to offer help with there shooting. You don't know me and I understand that, + you weren't there, and if she becomes an anti gun voter then I guess that will have to be dealt with along with the others.

I have given up more of my range time to other people than I care to recall, I am first to offer help if needed,
Even if I just see that it's needed, and 100% if it's asked for.
I did call and speak with the range master just a short time before this post,this was his answer to me.
Well everyone that becomes a member gets a sheet of paper with the range rules on it. Also we are going to post them at the range. But here is what I suggest, when you go to the range and other people are there make sure you explain the safety rules and see that they understand them. If they give you a problem, walk away.

Also if someone comes while your there talk to them first before they start shooting.

Seems not everyone thinks the piece of paper with the rules printed on it are meant for them, and some people are just plain careless about everything they do and firearms are just another thing to them.
also some folks are the wrong tool for the job, if you don't understand the rules, put the gun away until you do understand them, if you need more time to read them and FULLY understand them, then put the gun away till they become second nature to you.

I have a lot of patients for ignorance, many times it can be corrected. But blatant UN-rectifiable stupidity without the brain power to realize that some attention to the matter is needed, well that's another matter isn't it ?

[Bullshop Junior]

and humans bleed when they get shot

I can confirm this.

[merlin101]

I can confirm this.
:bigsmyl2:
I bet you can!!

[Recluse]

I don't give a damn if I create an anti-gunner out of some numbnuts who's too stupid and lacking of common sense to pour pee out of a boot.

When that same idiot shoots/kills some innocent person, they will have created far more anti-gunners than I ever will for simply calling an idiot an idiot.

Some people shouldn't drive cars. Some people shouldn't breed. Some people should not own guns.

It really IS that simple.

:coffee:

[DLCTEX]

I took two boys from the boy's home I worked for in La. squirrel hunting once. We were walking back up a power line right of way to our car when a man about 30 something cut loose at a water puddle between us. Bullets ricocheted around us like bees buzzing. I yelled and hurried the boys to the cover of trees, while the guy continued shooting. I circled him and kept him covered with my rifle while approaching him from behind. I waited until he was out of ammo and called for him to stop shooting. I explained that we were downrange and the bullets ricocheted at us. He shrugged and insolently said, so? I said next time I will shoot back and mine won't be ricochets. I took his plate number and reported him to the SO. I did not turn my back on him all the way to out of range.

[clintsfolly]

I RO for my club and do a few events ever year. At the one that we have for a shooters club I always carry my side arm and tell them that any gun handled out of the safe area will get them sent home and any AD from the bench area Will be considered hostile fire and be returned with all that I have!! This has got there mind on safety as in years past I have out shot there best and used some of the guns to do it. clint

[Digger]

I don't give a damn if I create an anti-gunner out of some numbnuts who's too stupid and lacking of common sense to pour pee out of a boot.

When that same idiot shoots/kills some innocent person, they will have created far more anti-gunners than I ever will for simply calling an idiot an idiot.

Some people shouldn't drive cars. Some people shouldn't breed. Some people should not own guns.

It really IS that simple.

:coffee:

Can I add to that statement ? ..."shouldn't vote"
Don't mean to divert the thread here .....

[kfarm]

I have a farm and have had friends that shoot that are not invited back for some of the same stuff, and they wonder why. I have a knack of not keeping friends very long when it comes to safety.

[WILCO]

The 10 mile drive was nice, all country road. When I pulled up to the gate I found an SUV blocking it and two folks inside the range, I honked the horn and the gent came to the gate complaining the lock was broke and the combination wouldn't work, I pulled down on the lock and it opened.

That should've been your first clue Sam.
I doubt they were members of the club.
Glad that you're okay.

[WILCO]

They need a range exam. A WRITTEN one.

You can't fix stupid. I would've asked for club I.D. and taken a plate number for a report.

[daniel lawecki]

Our new members have a walk thru safety coarse to fellow and pass. A board member and two others from the club school each new member about safety. You can and will face the board and action will follow for rules and safety violations.

[Col4570]

This puts it in a nutshell,"Whoops now look what you made me do".No guns to be handled when others are changing Targets.All shooters to be inline.Any guns that malfunction to be worked on with the Muzzle down range unless verified my the RO.Simple but safe.

[smokeywolf]

Anyone who intentionally fires a gun at or toward another human (unless for defensive purposes) or sends a bullet downrange when there is human life visible and in that general vicinity, is completely absent of common sense and as others have pointed out, dumb can neither be cured nor fixed. A person who is that devoid of common sense cannot be trained to safely handle a firearm. You might as well be trying to teach your goldfish the theory of zero-point energy.

Although I want more of the public to gain a love for our Constitution and the one tool that keeps politicians from declaring it no longer valid or applicable. Because just a momentary lapse in firearm safety can change, take away and destroy lives. Trying to train a person to safely handle a firearm when they are barely capable of understand how to butter a piece of toast is just asking for an injury or even a fatality somewhere down the line.

Sam's response to the threat this woman posed to his life was completely appropriate and reasonable. Not sure how anyone can imply that 10 minutes of @$$ chewing is an overreaction to someone committing an act that so obviously and blatantly threatens your life.

smokeywolf

[blackthorn]

Given the potential for personal injury, I think Sam was more than reasonable in his reaction!!

[MaryB]

I have been shot at twice... neither at the range. Once duck hunting the guys on the other side of the slough who watched us setup and knew where we were kept peppering us with pellets. We hollered at them 5 times to knock it off and watch the aim. 6th time I load up some 2 shot and peppered back just above their heads. They packed and left. When we came out 3 hours later game warden had them pulled over. Her had witnessed them shooting at us so he stopped them. Found them with 5 times the daily limit of ducks on top of it. They lost their boat and truck, shotguns, decoys everything. I knew the game warden and he told me a few days later that he would have directly peppered them with shot instead of a warning over their heads. Range was far enough it just stung but it is very annoying and not to conducive to duck hunting when someone is shooting at you.

Second time was deer hunting. I heard something hit the tree a few inches over my head and a shot go off. Wasn't a shotgun sound so i climbed down and looked over the fence line where the shot came from. Saw these guys walking our tree line with AR's in a shotgun zone so I headed back to the yard we parked in. They had parked next to me so I blocked them in with my truck and called the game warden. He arrived just in time to see these guys(Hmong from Minnepolis, a major hunting/fishing problem in Minnesota, they do not follow the laws), from the twin cities pointing a rifle at me. Another case where they lost everything.

[leeggen]

Glad we live on property where we have our own private property range. Know the feeling about being shot at, and it is not good in any manner. While hunting deer, I was in a tree and 2 guys behind me anbout 75 yd away started shooting pine cones out of the tree I was in. I yelled at them 3 times and ofcorse they shot again, so I leveled the 270 and shot the cb antenna off their truck. As they left they drove within 50ft of me and still had not seen me. Last time I hunted on wildlife management land.
Glad no one was injuried, as said can't fix stupid!!!
CD

[contender1]

gray wolf,,,
First, MANY thanks for the more detailed explanation of the events. In your latest thread, you explained how she apparently failed to understand fully why you were upset. From your post, she felt the NRA course was all she needed. We both know better.
In fact, I FULLY agree with you about some of the NRA instructors out there. I too can say I know some who I wouldn't let pick up dog ****.
My service as a NRA instructor is voluntary. I have never received a dime from teaching. I know a few others who are excellent instructors, and plenty who are NOT. I add my credentials so you'd hopefully understand I'm not speaking w/o experience.

Your qoute; "That's nonsense, I doubt very seriously she or him will turn there attention to being anti gun. The level of chastisement fit the level of incompetence and lack of concern for other people that she presented."
Excellent. If you had said that in the first post, I doubt I'd have said much at all. In fact, your next quote;

"I have considered how I reacted, And I did take the time to explain things to her and her husband after the dust settled, fact is I went out of my way to offer help with there shooting. You don't know me and I understand that, + you weren't there, and if she becomes an anti gun voter then I guess that will have to be dealt with along with the others."

I also appreciate this. You are right, I don't know you, nor do you know me. But, I'd bet if we were able to sit & discuss this at length, w/o trying to convey feelings & such on a keyboard, we'd likely agree on a lot of things, including how you handled it. Just by these two comments, you revealed much about yourself that I found I like.

I truly was hoping that was the case, as well as I was NOT trying to chastize you in any way.

All in all, your latest post above, which explains a LOT more, and reveals a lot of good in you, made me smile. I'd offer to buy you a cold beverage of your choice as a way of extending my hand of friendship & apology if I did offend you in any way. It was NOT my intent. If you are ever in Western NC, my door is open & the beverage is on me!

Truly, NONE of us ever want to be downrange of any gunfire. On the range or in the street. Yes, it is mighty upsetting, and downright scary. Going off on people may or may not get the point across. I agree that some of the bozos out there deserve "return fire" when they do stupid things & endanger us. But, to everyone, we have to be aware of how the anti-gunners already think we are knuckle dragging descendants of apes.
And yes, I fully agree that some people should never own a gun, as much as I believe some should never breed, drive cars, or take up good O2 that the rest of us enjoy.

So, please, gray wolf, accept my SINCEREST apologies if I upset you. It truly wasn't my intent.

[Love Life]

I have been shot at twice... neither at the range. Once duck hunting the guys on the other side of the slough who watched us setup and knew where we were kept peppering us with pellets. We hollered at them 5 times to knock it off and watch the aim. 6th time I load up some 2 shot and peppered back just above their heads. They packed and left. When we came out 3 hours later game warden had them pulled over. Her had witnessed them shooting at us so he stopped them. Found them with 5 times the daily limit of ducks on top of it. They lost their boat and truck, shotguns, decoys everything. I knew the game warden and he told me a few days later that he would have directly peppered them with shot instead of a warning over their heads. Range was far enough it just stung but it is very annoying and not to conducive to duck hunting when someone is shooting at you.

Second time was deer hunting. I heard something hit the tree a few inches over my head and a shot go off. Wasn't a shotgun sound so i climbed down and looked over the fence line where the shot came from. Saw these guys walking our tree line with AR's in a shotgun zone so I headed back to the yard we parked in. They had parked next to me so I blocked them in with my truck and called the game warden. He arrived just in time to see these guys(Hmong from Minnepolis, a major hunting/fishing problem in Minnesota, they do not follow the laws), from the twin cities pointing a rifle at me. Another case where they lost everything.

I usually avoid the woods like the plague during hunting season in the south east now that I don't hunt anymore. I don't even feel safe when I'm dressed like an orange Hi-Lighter.

I can remember all the times I'd hear "Bang............BANG,BANG,BANG,BANG!!!!"

[jmort]

MaryB good to have you here. LoveLife your just O.K.

[Mumblypeg]

I've been shot at several times.... and hit a couple of times.... but still above ground..... :-)

[MaryB]

I quit deer hunting about 10 years ago, to many city idiots who ignore no trespassing signs and they shoot at anything that moves. Killed my friends lab who went out to sit on the stand with him when she hopped out to pee. That was one case where I really might have ignored him shooting them... instead we held him down and told them to get but I snapped a cell pic and the game warden recognized them. That was the last year I hunted. We were on private land 1/2 mile off the highway. You had to park in a farmers yard to go in. They ignored all the no trespassing/no hunting signs, parked in the yard like they owned it. We had leased it for 40 years but that year the farmer said no more and deer season he put chains across the driveway and field exits.

[medalguy]

I hate shooting on public ranges and I'm not too thrilled with private ranges either. I much prefer to shoot on my property or go out to BLM land for longer distance shooting. About three months ago I was set up on BLM land, shooting 300 yard targets, when a group in a white pickup pulled right past my shooting position (I had a table, chair, and several ammo boxes sitting between my car and the road so they knew exactly what I was doing) and drove about 50 yards IN FRONT OF ME and piled out of their truck. I yelled at them and told them I was shooting directly in line with them, and one of the guys yelled back that this was public land and there were no range rules. I fumed for a few minutes and considered sending a few rounds past them but I decided it wasn't worth it and just packed up and moved. Boy, there are some people that are so stupid they probably deserve to be shot.

[.45Cole]

Grey Wolf
I see it as an opportunity to teach someone who doesn't know any better, once you have let the adrenaline run it's course. The sport is in the limelight, and we are commonly portrayed as grumpy old men, or insane people ready to snap (although your reaction is common after an adrenaline dump). She is a voter, and someone who can tell her FEMALE voter friends about the guy who gave her some pointers about safety.

[Love Life]

MaryB good to have you here. LoveLife your just O.K.

Huh??

[country gent]

At most high power matches there is a range saftey speech after colors and before the match starts. Basically takes a few mins for ro to go thru over. Basically everyone is a saftey officer and anyone can call a cease fire if somethings not right. Ive never seen anyone do it in my years of competeing though. But then half the time at a high power match is standing infront of the targets down range doing pit duty.
On a range without operating targets and pits then everyone needs to police the line. Being disabled I normally get another shooter to go down for me. No one wants to wait for me to walk 200 yds. LOL But I stay on the line and watch to insure no firearms or ammo is being handled. Most times it a simple slip of the mind. Its always interesting though had one changing batteries in a red dot on an ar and his exact words Im changing batteries not handling the rifle. But the rifle was in his hands at the time. Ive seen alot on diffrent ranges both private public and buisness ( rented by the hour) its always interesting and also if your not paying attention dangerous.

[RKJ]

I expect most of us would have reacted in much the same way. If someone is shooting in my direction I don't think I'd be very cordial towards them.

[gray wolf]

I expect most of us would have reacted in much the same way. If someone is shooting in my direction I don't think I'd be very cordial towards them.
Especial when they are only 10 or so feet behind you and slightly to the side.

[winchester85]

i used to volunteer to watch over the local public range. it is owned by the colorado DOW, the club that has their shotgun range there is supposed to take care of everything not just their private clubhouse and shotgun range. i sent many people packing for stupid things. one couple did not have earplugs so they started shooting their rifle at the shotgun range... right toward the 200 yard rifle target. when i got up to the 200 yard target to check my target i saw them and what they were doing. i sent them home right off. had another couple of guys using shotguns at the rifle range, blasting away at the target stands themselves with an apparent attempt to destroy the stands. another ocassion i was walking back from the 100 yard target stands with all the other shooters that were there. while we were down range a few new people showed up, one guy got his rifle out, put it on the bench, sat down and started looking down range through his scope like hew was ready to shoot. as i got close enough for him to hear, i asked him how i looked in his crosshairs. moron said, "it doesnt matter, it isnt loaded". i sent him home too!

[rbstern]

Sam, glad you're ok.

One of my last times at a public range, a senior citizen swept me with the barrel of a loaded 38 snub, with his finger on the trigger. After that day, I made it a priority to get on with my plans to buy some acreage, so I could shoot when I want, without dealing with the public, and only invite people who I know are safety conscious.

At the local gun store:

At the counter one day, I watch a young lady come through the door to the range with an unholstered rental Glock, with the action closed. Clerks aren't paying attention because the stores is busy. She's standing there with the gun on the counter and her hand on the gun. I suggest to one of them that they have an urgent situation at the end of the counter that needs immediate attention. The clerk's eyes almost popped out of his head when he saw her with the barrel facing in his general direction.

Same store, different day, I watched a clerk take a rental Thompson SMG down from the wall. He inspected the action and was quite surprised to find a 45ACP in the chamber.

I haven't been back to that store since that day. Accidents waiting to happen.