Need your input on a fat 30-30 boolit

[fatelvis]

I measured a pound cast on my 1954 Marlin 336. It has Ballard rifling and the bore reads .3114" -.3116". The rifling starts right away, with practically no throat/freebore/lead, whatever you call it. Lol ... I've been feeding it .310" sized 311041 boolits, (they are only .3106" as cast). I guess it's time to go with .312" boolits? Could any of you suggest a boolit that may work well, and function through this rifle? Thanks!
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[Bloodman14]

Try beagling your mold, and see how they come out measurement-wise. How is the accuracy currently? What is the alloy? What powder, etc? Need more info.

[fatelvis]

The accuracy is decent at 100 yds, (about ~2" groups off the bench) and have been using 15 grns 2400 and 25 grns of 8208XBR. Both loads have the same poi but I'm looking to bump up the charges to smack silhouettes out to 200meters and maybe 500 meters, if I can ever find a silhouette range that goes out that far. I'm using ACWW with added 95/5 solder 9:1. I'm thinking that pushing them harder is going to result in leading.

[fatelvis]

Try your boolits size/lube and GC in a .312" die.
Wouldn't that result in a sloppily lubed boolit, still only measuring 3106"?

[Horace]

NOE 311041 for $92 @ www.noebulletmolds.com with WW alloy they cast at .3125''.

Horace

[fatelvis]

NOE 311041 for $92 @ www.noebulletmolds.com with WW alloy they cast at .3125''.

Horace
The drawing of that boolit shows .311" diameter.

[MBTcustom]

Hmmm, this sounds familiar! LOL!
Look in the group buy section. 338ultramag is doing a 311466 in several diameters for $55.
Your rifle liked those.
Holler at me and ill send you some samples in .313.

[fatelvis]

Hmmm, this sounds familiar! LOL!
Look in the group buy section. 338ultramag is doing a 311466 in several diameters for $55.
Your rifle liked those.
Holler at me and ill send you some samples in .313.
Thanks Tim, I will be Pming you shortly.
By the way, Tim worked his magic on this rifle, resurrecting a botched trigger job from the past, making it one of the nicest triggers on a lever gun that I have ever felt! He also slicked it up, and fixed a problem it had. Thank you Tim, you are very good with these smokepoles! I will be writing a thread reviewing this rifle soon, right here.

[RickinTN]

I had Tom at Accurate molds do the 31-170S for me and my Marlin rifles. I think I specified the bullets to drop .312" and they do drop .3125" to .313" with approximate clip-on wheel weight alloy. This bullet fits the throats of my Marlin rifles very well, and I have both the older ballard rifling as well as micro-groove rifles. I've just begun accuracy testing and in my '49 model 336A it shoots very well. In my '80 model with micro-groove it is only so-so, but I think the rifle is happy being so-so.
I couldn't help but notice your alloy. 9 to 1 wheel weight/ 95-5 solder. That is almost 10% tin and seems like quite an overuse of a valuable material. Usually 2% tin works very well when added to clip-on wheel weight alloy.
My Marlin rifles all (except for my '49 model RC) share the same abrupt, almost non-existent throat. 2" or so groups at 100 yards with iron sights isn't too shabby at all.
Rick

[fatelvis]

I couldn't help but notice your alloy. 9 to 1 wheel weight/ 95-5 solder. That is almost 10% tin and seems like quite an overuse of a valuable material. Usually 2% tin works very well when added to clip-on wheel weight alloy.
My mistake. I'm used to my Lee 10lb pot. Now I'm using the 4-20 pot, so make that 1lb 95/5 solder to 19lbs WWs. By the way, I'm loving that bigger pot. More casting, less melting/fluxing/skimming, etc.

[popper]

WAY too much tin. That will cause undersized from the mould/sizing. If the Sn/Cu solder, try 9:0.2 Should give you balanced Sn/Sb/Cu & maybe 0.311 as cast. PC them and you will get 0.312-.313 and NO leading. You can do better than max jacketed book loads with no leading & accurate. I assume it's a 1:12 30/30.

[fatelvis]

WAY too much tin. That will cause undersized from the mould/sizing. If the Sn/Cu solder, try 9:0.2 Should give you balanced Sn/Sb/Cu & maybe 0.311 as cast. PC them and you will get 0.312-.313 and NO leading. You can do better than max jacketed book loads with no leading & accurate. I assume it's a 1:12 30/30.
Wow.... learning something new all the time here. I was assuming that adding the 95/5 would help fill out the mold better and give larger boolits because of that. Excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean by "PCing" them? -Thanks

[Char-Gar]

There are three off the shelf molds that will do well in your short throat Marlin MG, they are.

1. SAECO 305

2. NOE 311 165RF (RD/Ranch Dog)

3. NOE 311 170gr. FN (311407 Mod)

All of these are fat 30s and will cast .313 - .314. They will size easy to .312 or even smaller. Any of them should get you where you want to be.

My first choice for dedicated use in a Marlin 30-30 MG would be NOE 311 165 (Ranch Dog). If I wanted to use the bullet in a 30 caliber bolt gun as well, I would go with NOE 311 170 FN (311407 Mod). For 30-30 use, seat the top two bands out of the case and crimp in the third groove. There are reasons for this, but you didn't ask.

At any rate, here are three good choices that will solve your problem.

Both Winchester and Marlin 30-30 lever guns have short throats, with some being less than others. Really and truly, the best fix is to use a throating reamer and put one where the factory should have, but did not.

[country gent]

Tru some of the larger dia boolits first in loaded ammo and make sure they feed and function correctly. Uour existing mold could be lapped out to what you are wanting fairly easily. Another plus to lapping is rounder bullets if done correctly. For what you are asking you only need .0004 on the dia or .0002 on a side. a very fine lapping compound or even a polishing compound will give that. Drill a 1/8" - 3/16" hole on the base of the bullet ( use the sprue as a center) glue a appropriate pin in the hole with super glue. Clamp pin in a tap handle. coat bullet with polishing compound. Slowly and carefully close mold around bullet. ( A heavy rubber band can supply consistent tension on blocks). Slowly spin bullet by hand back and forth rotating 1/4 turn every 3-5 back and forth series. Do one rotation and check.

[fatelvis]

My first choice for dedicated use in a Marlin 30-30 MG would be NOE 311 165 (Ranch Dog). If I wanted to use the bullet in a 30 caliber bolt gun as well, I would go with NOE 311 170 FN (311407 Mod). For 30-30 use, seat the top two bands out of the case and crimp in the third groove. There are reasons for this, but you didn't ask.

At any rate, here are three good choices that will solve your problem.

Both Winchester and Marlin 30-30 lever guns have short throats, with some being less than others. Really and truly, the best fix is to use a throating reamer and put one where the factory should have, but did not.
Please elaborate on seating in the third groove. Also, my rifle isn't a MG, it has Ballard rifling. Thanks so far guys!

[fatelvis]

Tru some of the larger dia boolits first in loaded ammo and make sure they feed and function correctly. Uour existing mold could be lapped out to what you are wanting fairly easily. Another plus to lapping is rounder bullets if done correctly. For what you are asking you only need .0004 on the dia or .0002 on a side. a very fine lapping compound or even a polishing compound will give that. Drill a 1/8" - 3/16" hole on the base of the bullet ( use the sprue as a center) glue a appropriate pin in the hole with super glue. Clamp pin in a tap handle. coat bullet with polishing compound. Slowly and carefully close mold around bullet. ( A heavy rubber band can supply consistent tension on blocks). Slowly spin bullet by hand back and forth rotating 1/4 turn every 3-5 back and forth series. Do one rotation and check.
I don't want to alter my Lyman 311041 if possible. It throws a boolit that shoots wonderfully in my Krag.

[Char-Gar]

Please elaborate on seating in the third groove. Also, my rifle isn't a MG, it has Ballard rifling. Thanks so far guys!

311407 MOD is a shortened fat version of Lyman 311407. There is two differences in addition to being one band shorter. The top two bands are .301 - .302 and ride on top of the barrel lands. Thus there is no body diameter bands to catch up on the short throat. Loaded this way it will contain the bullet body in the 30-30 case neck. The other difference is it is fatter at .314.

The original Lyman version had the top three bands that tapered from .305 to .308. This was fine is a worn military 30-06 throat, but in most any other it shoved the bullet body down inside the case with the fire. Not good.

Any of these three bullet will work as well with Ballard as with MG. I have two Marlin 336s and both are MG. I also have four other 30-30s (Winchester, Savage and Browning) with traditional style rifling.

I have all three of these molds, so I am working from experience and not theory.

[Char-Gar]

I don't want to alter my Lyman 311041 if possible. It throws a boolit that shoots wonderfully in my Krag.

NOE 311407 MOD makes a very good Krag bullet. Just seat the bullet out as far as it will go and have the round still feed through the magazine.

Krags have large throats and .312 to .313 bullet will do better than smaller. I have four Krag rifles and all of them do their best with .313 bullets. One rifle has a little tighter chamber neck than the others, and I have to neck turn the brass to get it to accept .313 bullets, but the improvement is worth the effort.

[fatelvis]

I should clarify: My "Krag" is really a 30-40 in a Ruger #3. It possesses much tighter dimensions than that of Krag Milspec rifles. Thanks for the tips on boolit designs. I like the tapered band idea, it looks promising. You guys are going to have me spending more on molds than this rifle is worth!! I guess Swede needs to put food on his table too. Lol




NOE 311407 MOD makes a very good Krag bullet. Just seat the bullet out as far as it will go and have the round still feed through the magazine.

Krags have large throats and .312 to .313 bullet will do better than smaller. I have four Krag rifles and all of them do their best with .313 bullets. One rifle has a little tighter chamber neck than the others, and I have to neck turn the brass to get it to accept .313 bullets, but the improvement is worth the effort.

[fatelvis]

I assume it's a 1:12 30/30.
I just checked; it has a 1:10 twist