APP warning

[hiram]

Directions for APP say lube is not necessary and can even be detrimental to accuracy. They say APP makes its own moist lube. Well, guess what--lube is necessary. I shot my 92 - 44-40 and in less than 20 rounds, accuracy was crippled. The first six inches from the muzzle was leaded. The previous times I used APP, bullets were lubed and no problem.

Now I have to get the lead out. I was thinking of trying COW capped with a gas check, no bullet, and/or a jacketed flatbase bullet loaded backwards so the base acts like a scraper. Are these ideas a good start? Any more ideas?

This is the first time I had a leading problem.

Thank you APP.

[725]

Get some "chore boy" type stuff from Big 45 Frontier Gun Shop and wrap it around your cleaning brush. Works better than a lewis lead remover. I wouldn't go shooting things backward and expect any lead removal. Pretty much if something is dirty, you clean it. Cutting corners doesn't work in real life, why would it work in you rifle?
Big 45 Frontier GunShop
P.O. Box 90947
Sioux Falls, SD 57109
(605) 335-0049

[9.3X62AL]

Chore Boy copper dish scrubber material wrapped about an old bore cleaning brush gets lead out mui pronto. I dip the wrapped brush into Hoppe's #9, and scrub it out. I hate leaded barrels.

At risk of sounding unschooled.....what is APP?

[waksupi]

Yeah, what is APP?

[Shiloh]

At risk of sounding unschooled.....what is APP?

Thanks for asking.

I always get cold feet when asking questions that subjects tha I feel I should have a grasp on. What IS APP???

Shiloh

[Razor]

Yeah, me too.. what's APP ????

Razor

[PatMarlin]

You guys don't know what APP is?... Sheesh... :roll:

Neither do I.. :groner:

[oneokie]

American Pioneer Powder???

[Razor]

say APP makes its own moist lube.

American Pioneer Powder???

Powder that makes it's own lube ??
I WANT SOME....

:kidding:

[Swamprat1052]

Boy I'm glad we cleared that up. lol.

Thanks, Swamprat

[hiram]

yup---

ameican pioneer powder


http://www.americanpioneerpowder.com/

[Springfield]

APP-Black Powder substitute. I prefer the real thing with heavily lubed bullets. If the Chore Boy stuff doesn't work(usually does for me) the Outer's Foul Out works great as a last resort. Don't get much leading myself. Only on used guns I buy from other people.

[crowbeaner]

Try some SPG lube. Any mfg. that claims their powder makes lube is full of bull pukky. Steve Garbe shoots BP and knows his stuff.

[44man]

Can you use APP in the lube sizer? [smilie=1:

[Ricochet]

Might have to heat it with a torch to get it to flow.

[Blammer]

:)
:)

[drinks]

Sometimes some of the finer details get overlooked, APP is for use in MLs and the no lube needed part is when loading patched ball or sabot in a ML, does not address cast bullets in a cartridge gun.
I do not know of many cast bullets that do not need to be lubed.

[44man]

OH, OH, Drinks, the patched ball NEEDS lube. The sabot doesn't.
Of course the inline can't shoot a patched ball anyway because of the fast twist. But if you shoot APP in a round ball rifle, never think of loading dry.
The cartridge rifle sure needs lube and the best you can make for black powder, not smokeless.

[drinks]

44, I must have missed something, when I quit using that nasty BP and went to 777, I stopped lubing patches and have never done so with 777, has worked , so far.
I use a lube on anything that has the alloy actually in contact with the barrel metal, min'ie, REAL or my homemade swc hollow base bullets.
I use a simple homemade lube for ML, just 1/2 and 1/2 peanut oil and bee'swax and just dip the bullets.
As I understand the APP instructions, lube makes a sticky mess with the APP that will eventually build up, have not yet found any around here to try, but I am looking.

[jhrosier]

Hiram,
FWIW, I use Hogdon's Triple 7 BP substitute in cartridge guns with very good accuracy and no leading.
It is not picky about what type of lube you use.
I have used both LLA and White Lable 2500+.
The fouling does not build up in teh bore and cleanup is a couple of wet patches and then oil.

Jack

[dromia]

On my reading of the site they are referring to not needing grease cookies or lubricated wads, they say regular bullet lube is fine.

It is a bit ambiguous though as I found two separate references in two separate places and if you just read the one then taken literally you could get the interpretation that bullet lube is not necessary.

[Saint]

I have tried dry patches and using spit to lube them but in both cases my patches burned straight through. That was using 45 grains of powder and a .50 RB in the sidelock pistol you see in my avatar. I also understand that you get blow by with this method which will decrease velocity.

[hiram]

I stand corrected.--I went back and read the directions on the APP sight. In one paragrapgh it says patch lube is not necessary for ML. App makes its own moist lube. In another paragrapgh, it says BP lube can be detrimental but smokeless lube is fine.

I haven't tried 777 because I've heard about about a crud ring and that it is hard to remove. I always use goex 2f in my 45-70 and have gotten very good results with Pyrodex Select. I might try some for fun.

If you hear that APP is non-corrosive, don't believe it---It makes a rusty mess.

I found chore boy under the kitchen sink. In one word--UNBELIEVEABLE.

Thanks

[black44hawk]

No Lube? Sounds nefarious.

[JIMinPHX]

Powder that acts as a lube? How can that possibly work? The powder goes down the barrel AFTER the bullet does. I can see how lube in the powder might help on a subsequent shot, but that first boolit will be seeing bare steel as it slides along on its way out towards the muzzle. Sabot or patch, it's still a dry barrel on the first shot

[hiram]

Yes--the first shot is down a dry barrel. I have a 45 cal mop oiled with cooking oil. Before I shoot my first 45-70, I screw the mop on a cleaning rod and oil the barrel. Its not dripping like with bore cleaner, just damp. Subsequent shots rely on bullet lube. Try it--I think some of you guys will see the sense to it. As far as petroleum oil in the barrel from the last cleaning, I run a dry patch to wipe out the oil so the petroleum oil/black powder combo do not make the tarring fouling that is so dreaded.