lead temperature

[calsite]

I'm a fairly new caster, and have been recommended to cast at the lowest temperature you can, this keeping the tin and antimony from settling to the top of my casting pot. I was surfing around the RCBS site tonite and noted the their recommended casting temperature for wheel weights was 775. I was curious about hearing what others thought on this.

[Saint]

Guess it just depends on what works best for you. If you ask the ideal temperature everybody will give you a different one. The only way to know for sure is trial and error. I cast pure lead with a little WW mixed in for muzzleloader roundball. If I want any kind of decent rounds I have to crank the pot till my alloy is just starting to glow.(FYI I cast at night outdoors.) I use a lee 4 lb ladle pot and I have to run it around 7 or 8. Another factor will be your mould material and amount of cavities. I find that my aluminum moulds require a higher casting temperature than my iron moulds but my iron moulds take a lot longer to get to proper casting temperature. One of the roadblocks I ran into when I started casting was realizing just how hot a mould needs to be. I kept getting poor quality and would give up after 50 or so rounds. That was while using an electric hotplate and a cast iron pot. I later determined the electric hotplate could not get the alloy hot enough. I switched to the Lee and after about 10 rounds I was dropping great boolits and the mould was getting way hotter than before. Welcome to Cast Boolits, you have found the single greatest online resource for bullet casting. Let us know what turns out best for you.

[testhop]

welcome glad to have you
casting to me trial and erraltill you find what works

[randyrat]

It's best to get your mold hot as possible before you cast your first boolit or you'll be banging on the sprue plate to open it. Dip a corner of your mold in the molten hot lead for a while(trial and error) Don't over look the prep of the mold,smoking it, Bullshop sprue plate lube will help..ect... As far as temp of the melt (trial and error) i don't use a thrmometer. Oh yeh give your mold some break in time also or all bets are off, so don't judge your mold by the first batch of boolits. IMO the temp of the mold is more important than the temp of your pot. Once you do everything right, including when the temp is just right, you can cut the sprue with thumb pressure and the boolit will drop right out with no banging of a club. You'll find you optimum temp/tempo/pace in time. Thats called casting heaven.

[waksupi]

Whoever was telling you the different components of an alloy would separate, are full of beans.

Welcome aboard!

[NVcurmudgeon]

Waksupi is right. Years ago there was an article in Handloader by a lead company metallurgist. He said that lead, tin, and antimony allloys do not gravity separate. When casting with a dip pot the reason for fluxing and stirrring is to get the dross out of the metal and coming to the top, where we can skim it off.

[sundog]

I pour HOT. Only time I back off is when boolits or sprue take to long to set. Don't need no stinkin' thermometer. I'll agree mould temp is critical, and don't forget that the sprue plate is part of the mould.

[mooman76]

Being new to casting it will be easier for you to make good bullets when the lead is too hat rather than too cold. In fact it is easier for anyone. If it's too hat for the most you just get frost bullets, frosty but filled out. If the melt is too cold, you won't get good bullets at all. Crank up the heat and when you get going you can lower it some a little at a time. You can tell if the lead is the right temp because the bullets mouldinf is easier and you get a rythem going. If the if you turn it down too much you will start to loose your rythem because the bullets won't be turning out as good so you turn it back up!

[Jon K]

calsite,

Welcome to the assylum.

As you can already see, lots of different answers.

Different moulds, different alloys, different methods of pour, all will change the pour. Only the mould can tell you what temperature it likes. Pour hot works for pistol boolits, and certain moulds. Pistol, rifle, ML, or BPCR each takes a unique approach according to your mould.

Consistancy is the key to good boolits. A thermometer can be a very vital tool. Write down what you did with what mould and what worked with that mould, and PREHEAT the mould. If you don't it may take a while to get it up to operating temp.

Don't be afraid to experiment, that's how you'll find what works for you. Remember just because something works for the other guy, doesn't mean it's going to work for you. Write it down, keep notes, it gets harder to remember what worked the last time you used the mould, with what alloy, what temp, what conditions, especially the longer it's been, or older you get.

Jon

:castmine: :lovebooli

[Saint]

Being new to casting it will be easier for you to make good bullets when the lead is too hat rather than too cold. In fact it is easier for anyone. If it's too hat for the most you just get frost bullets, frosty but filled out. If the melt is too cold, you won't get good bullets at all. Crank up the heat and when you get going you can lower it some a little at a time. You can tell if the lead is the right temp because the bullets mouldinf is easier and you get a rythm going. If the if you turn it down too much you will start to loose your rythm because the bullets won't be turning out as good so you turn it back up!
I like my boolits a little frosty.

[Woodwrkr]

Oh yeh give your mold some break in time also or all bets are off, so don't judge your mold by the first batch of boolits. IMO the temp of the mold is more important than the temp of your pot.

I'm glad you wrote that! I used my first iron mold for the first time last night and I was not all that pleased with the results.

I've heard that some people use a hot plate to preheat the mold. What sort of temp setting do you set the hot plate on to preheat the mold? Is there any chance of warping the mold if I get the hot plate to hot?

[Shuz]

Calsite,welcome to the site! Once a lead alloy has been made, the constituents will not "gravity out" as some have suggested. However, if you don't cover your melt with something like kitty litter, ambient air will oxidize your melt and the percentages of the elements in relationship to each other will change, and the weights of your boolits will change as a result. This is one reason I like to utilize a bottom pour pot. Kitty litter scattered on top of the melt prevents oxidization, makes it easier to keep the heat in, and basically allows the alloy to remain "cleaner" and thus obtain better boolits because the impurities are floating with it on the top of the melt. I've heard that some folks cast with a ladle in an open pot covered with kitty litter, but, I'm confident that it is more difficult than using a bottom pour pot.
I find that using a thermometer inserted into the melt enables me to start casting when it is easier to obtain good boolits because I can wait for the melt to arrive in the temperature range for good fillout. In my experience, good boolits can be obtained with melt temps in the 650 to 800F degree range regardless of the moulds composition. However, I've found that aluminum moulds seem to prefer a higher mould and/or alloy temp for consistent results.I believe that is because they cool off quicker than steel. Have fun,wear glasses and gloves, and enjoy your hobby.--Shuz

[Bass Ackward]

Every time I mix a new batch of something, it seems that a 200 degree rule comes into play.

For a bottom pour pot, anything I mix that melts at a certain temperature can be used at 200 degrees above that point in steel molds. Aluminum may need another 50 degrees depending on block size and bullet mass.

So something like 20-1 is molded at 675 with700 degrees in aluminum.

WW melts at about 515 degrees if it's "pure" WW with 2% antimony. WW with 4% antimony melts around 490. The more impurities it has in it, the higher the melt temp goes. My WW is around 4% but it has about 1% copper. It melts @ 545 so I can set 750 degrees with it in steel and may have to go to 800 with small caliber bullets in 2 cavity aluminum, but not very often as I cast with a good rhythm.

Pure lead needs 800 + as it melts a hair over 600 degrees up to 625 depending on how pure "pure" really is.

Laddling seems to use a 150 degree rule and can be used 50 degrees lower than the pot with the same mix.

[klw]

I always start out at 720. If the bullets are frosted I drop the temperature 50 degrees. If the bullets have incomplete fillout I raise the temperature 50 degrees. So you can use the condition of the bullets to determine the best temperature.

If I'm using two moulds where complete cooling is pretty much a given (that isn't always true with two moulds), then I turn the furnace all the way up.

[MT Gianni]

I'm glad you wrote that! I used my first iron mold for the first time last night and I was not all that pleased with the results.

I've heard that some people use a hot plate to preheat the mold. What sort of temp setting do you set the hot plate on to preheat the mold? Is there any chance of warping the mold if I get the hot plate to hot?

I dip the corner of my mold into the melt until lead no longer sticks to it, usually 90-180 seconds. I then leave it in another 30 seconds and start to cast. Gianni

[Marlin Junky]

I was surfing around the RCBS site tonite and noted the their recommended casting temperature for wheel weights was 775. I was curious about hearing what others thought on this.

780F +/- for wheel weights.

MJ

[black44hawk]

I had the same problem that Woodwrkr had with my iron RCBS Keith mold. I started using a propane torch to heat my mold and fillout became better. I sure like the convenience of Lee molds though.

[Woodwrkr]

I dip the corner of my mold into the melt until lead no longer sticks to it, usually 90-180 seconds. I then leave it in another 30 seconds and start to cast. Gianni

That explains part of my problems last night. I didn't leave the corner of the mold dipped in the pot for long enough. Does leaving the corner of the mold dipped in the pot for 90-180 seconds plus 30 seconds preheat the sprue plate as well as the mold blocks? Another of my problems last night was that the corner of the base of the bullet (Lyman 358429 double cavity) weren't filling out and the corners of the base were rounded over almost as if the bullet were a bevel base instead of a plain base. I was running the pot at 700-720 degrees and the mold was behaving as if the sprue plate never heated up sufficiently or perhaps the sprue plate was contaminated somehow.

[Kid Curry]

My best investment was a bottom drain production pot. Setting the temp is just a dial away (no thermometer) and I have to clean of the surface less often. After getting used to the bottom pour control I can get into a rhythm with two moulds (two calibers) at a time and produce more bullets faster.

Preheating the moulds I do by simply sitting them on top of the pot as it heats up. Unlike some, I think lead temp is more important than mould temp. I run my lead on the high side of the dial (8).

I much prefer the steel Lyman moulds over Lee aluminum. Seems they are less critical to temperature and easier to get the wrinkles out and getting into the rhythm.

Do what you will, but everyone has to get their own bugs worked out through trial and error. Ed.

[montana_charlie]

Another of my problems last night was that the corner of the base of the bullet (Lyman 358429 double cavity) weren't filling out and the corners of the base were rounded over almost as if the bullet were a bevel base instead of a plain base. I was running the pot at 700-720 degrees and the mold was behaving as if the sprue plate never heated up sufficiently or perhaps the sprue plate was contaminated somehow.
This can be caused when air is trapped under the sprue plate.
Adjust the tension on the pivot screw so that the plate can swing a little when you shake the mould around. When the mould is heated, it may even get a bit looser.

As the cavity becomes full and you back off to leave a sprue puddle, the lack of pressure on the sprue plate will allow air to escape between the bottom of the plate and the top of the mould. This might cure your base fillout problem.
CM

[Woodwrkr]

This can be caused when air is trapped under the sprue plate.
Adjust the tension on the pivot screw so that the plate can swing a little when you shake the mould around.
CM

That could very well be the problem. The sprue plate was tighter than that. Thanks, I'll give that a whirl. That could also be why my Lee 452-230-TC is behaving the same way.

[Ken]

I was casting this afternoon using two Lyman 4 cavity moulds with the RCBS pot set at 750. It worked fine, bullets a little frosty but filled out good. One mould just gets too hot and slows me down.

[calsite]

Thanks for the reply(s), I sure do agree about this site being a great reasource and have already turned on a couple more people to it. After reading quite a bit last night I'm wondering if the lowest temperature recommendation was only for smelting. I'm using an RCBS 20# Pro Pot (nothing like picking up a good pot for 20$ aah!) the last batch I threw were at 700 degrees according to the thermostat on the side of the pot and I did notice that the rings on my bullets wern't filling out or were shotty (not always filling out) perfect. I think I need to buy me a good thermometer like the RCBS and do alot more exploring with temperature until I'm happy with results. Right now all I've got are two Lee tumble lube moulds, .430 and .452. eventually after I get done restocking my 45-70 rolling block I might be looking for a good iron .451 405 gr. mould for it too.

[calsite]

My best investment was a bottom drain production pot. Setting the temp is just a dial away (no thermometer) and I have to clean of the surface less often. After getting used to the bottom pour control I can get into a rhythm with two moulds (two calibers) at a time and produce more bullets faster.

Preheating the moulds I do by simply sitting them on top of the pot as it heats up. Unlike some, I think lead temp is more important than mould temp. I run my lead on the high side of the dial (8).

I much prefer the steel Lyman moulds over Lee aluminum. Seems they are less critical to temperature and easier to get the wrinkles out and getting into the rhythm.

Do what you will, but everyone has to get their own bugs worked out through trial and error. Ed.
I was curious on how accurate do you think the Pot thermostat is? Mine, an RCBS 20# Pro Pot, is all I've ever had to go by. I've been considering buying a good thermometer as well for smelting and casting. Yeah, right now I using alum. Lee Moulds but would eventually like to go with Iron.

[454PB]

I've only owned a lead thermometer for about a year, yet I've been casting for 37 years. Yes, they are fun to play with and educational, but you can cast perfectly good boolits without one.

Another vote for frosty boolits.

[randyrat]

Preheating the moulds I do by simply sitting them on top of the pot as it heats up. Unlike some, I think lead temp is more important than mould temp. I run my lead on the high side of the dial (8). KID CURRY

To a certain point your right, but try to cast with a cold mold and you'll have a heck of time banging on that sprue plate and pounding out the boolits, no matter how hot your lead is.

[Kid Curry]

calsite... As for accuracy of thermostatic controlled pots - the Lee Production Pot seems to keep the temperature within the range selected and I have mine set at 8 (medium is 5). That is more important to me than the actual temperature of the lead. I don't use a thermometer. If the lead seems too cool I simply crank it up a notch. Works for me.

randyrat... Didn't mean to imply that a mold shouldn't be pre-heated. I just feel a mold's temperature fluctuation is less critical than lead. Both should be hot enough. Ed.

[osage]

Welcome Calsite, :drinks:
I've tend to run my casting pot as hot as needed for good fillout. With the highest temps for straight lead in roundball and Lee R.E.A.L. boolits. Seem to have better fill at or near frosting with my Lee 6 bangers no matter what alloy I'm using. When smelting WW I do run just hot enough to melt them so that any zinc WW floats and can be removed with the clips.