Want to cast undersize bullets.

[hunter64]

Kind of a different question, I am sure it has been asked before but I can't find reference in the search engine. I was in on the GB for the 311291 and it works great for my .303 because it casts at .314 which I need. I would like to try this in my 30-30 and a 30-06. I have a .311 punch so I put it in the Lyman sizer and tried to size the .314-.315 in the .311 sizer and that is a no go. I am using approximately Lyman #2 alloy. So can I get smaller bullets out of this mold if I use more pure lead and just heat treat in the oven to make them harder? What about getting a Lee .311 push thru sizer and install the GC and size them in there and then lube them in my Lyman sizer? I would think that the lube grooves would be really squished from the sizing. Should I just buy a dual cavity 311291 and be done with.

[Maven]

hunter64, I've had to do what you've described using Ly. #314299, which casts @ .315". Some of my rifles shoot it very accurately, but at .311". You can use your Lyman lube sizer if you size the oversized CB's in .001" steps, but that becomes tedious in a hurry. The better way is to purchase a Lee .311" press mounted sizing die kit and size them in a single step. It's not only less expensive than buying another mold (#311291), but it does a better job than the incremental reductions I mentioned earlier.

[Jon K]

hunter,

You got the right idea, 2 steps- lube and size in the larger sizer, then size in the smaller sizer. Add GC for whichever. I do the same with several guns, but the BIG question is.........will the bore riding nose section fit both guns? I sold my GB 311291 because I couldn't use .301 or bigger.

Jon

[NVcurmudgeon]

Ease of sizing must be alloy-related. Using WW + 1-2% tin, my 314299 casts .314" I size .314" for the .303, .312" for 7.65 Argentine, and .310" for .308, .30/40, and .30/06. No collapsed lube grooves and good to great accuracy.

[grumpy one]

The main issue is how to prevent smeared or collapsed lube grooves, and that can be achieved by lubing and sizing first to fit your 303, then sizing down to the size you want as a second step. Full lube grooves are unlikely to be damaged by further sizing.

If your lubesizer can't deal with the amount of downsizing required, either your alloy is too hard or your lubesizer is too weak. Either is easily fixed. If the bullets are too hard, use a lower-antimony alloy, cast them soft, then heat-treat after sizing. If the sizer is too weak, this is a perfect excuse to get an additional sizer.

As Jon said, you can only have one size of nose if the bullet is a bore-rider, and this may be a stopper in the end. This is one of the arguments for Loverin bullets.

[hunter64]

I think I will experiment a bit, I will cast and let air cool instead of water quench. Then I will size at .314 in the sizer and then run it thru a .311 lee push thru die. Then I could heat treat later and lube. Sound like alot of extra work but not a big deal. Then I will try just running it thru the .311 sizer first , heat treat and then lube.

[grumpy one]

hunter if you are water dropping, it's no surprise that you can't easily sized down by .003 in one pass. Seems like you should be air cooling, as you say, and heat-treating at the end of the process. An extra step, true, but you should get much more uniform hardness.

[Ricochet]

You've got to lubricate the bullets to size them in the Lee sizer. And though I do use liquid soap or soapy water as I've often said, if there's a lot of sizing to be done and the boolits are hard, it's best to first tumble them in a light coat of LLA.

I have taken water dropped boolits, put them in the oven at 475°F for an hour, turned the oven off till it cools, sized them, then repeated the same oven heating and dropped them in cold water to reharden. Not really that much trouble.

[Larry Gibson]

Concur with Grumpyone, seat GC and lube in .314 die then push through Lee .311 load and shoot. I do that all the time and the lube supports the grooves so they do not collapse. No need then for a seperate lube just to push through the .311 sizer either.

Larry Gibson

[Leftoverdj]

Just use one of the spray graphite mould releases. That will reduce as cast diameter by up to .002.

[hunter64]

Leftoverdj: Hey great idea, never thought of that. Even if it just reduces it by 1 thou that is a step in the right direction. I have never bought any or seen any for sale, who makes it?

[Larry Gibson]

That one slipped by me too. Goes to show what a great site ths is. Midway sells spray graghite mould release that works just about that way.

Larry Gibson

[Leftoverdj]

Hunter, I buy DGF 123 from the lubricants section of NAPA auto parts. It seems to be the same stuff marketed by Frankfort Arsenal and others but in a can that is twice the size and half the price.

[hunter64]

Leftoverdj: I will try and find some on the way home today and give it a shot, thanks for the info.

[dbldblu]

2nd what leftoverdj said, I have had that happen too, especially as I did not follow directions and sprayed onto hot mould repeatedly.

[hunter64]

I tried three NAPA auto stores and no one even heard of DGF 123. So last night I thought I would just cast some and let them air cool then try to size them in the .311 die and see what happens. What a difference, no problems at all sizing now that they are much softer. So I put on the GC and sized them all, into the oven to heat treat and tomorrow I will run them thru the sizer again to put the lube on them. Thanks for your help guys and I will still look for the DGF 123 stuff and give it a try sometime.

[Leftoverdj]

I tried three NAPA auto stores and no one even heard of DGF 123. So last night I thought I would just cast some and let them air cool then try to size them in the .311 die and see what happens. What a difference, no problems at all sizing now that they are much softer. So I put on the GC and sized them all, into the oven to heat treat and tomorrow I will run them thru the sizer again to put the lube on them. Thanks for your help guys and I will still look for the DGF 123 stuff and give it a try sometime.

They're none too bright. NAPA part number is BK 765-1413. They have it or can get it, but are too lazy to look.

[hunter64]

Thanks for the part number, I will stop in and see what they can order for me.