Imr 4064

[jonp]

I am not finding a lot of data for this powder using cast in 30-30. Has anyone used this powder in 150. 160 or 170gr and could you give me a min starting point? Also what was your results? Thanks

[ShooterAZ]

I have not tried IMR4064 in the 30-30, but Lyman's 49th shows 29-31.5 with a 150gr, and 27-30.5 with a 170gr. These were both for jacketed bullets though.

[Outpost75]

My experience with 4064 in the .30-30 is that you can't get enough into the case to get into any trouble. Fill'er up.

[jonp]

I have not tried IMR4064 in the 30-30, but Lyman's 49th shows 29-31.5 with a 150gr, and 27-30.5 with a 170gr. These were both for jacketed bullets though.

Yes, I saw that and can extrapolate out but actual real world experience is worth much more. I'm looking for a powder to use over several calibers that is available and 4064 looks to fit the bill for me.

[243winxb]

In 30-30 27.5 gr of IMR 4895 work for me with 173gr lead. 4064 is a bit slower, add a bit more.

[243winxb]

I'm looking for a powder to use over several calibers H4895 and Hodgdon Youth load data/formula would seem to be good for some lead starting loads ideas .

[jonp]

Ok, thread drift. 4895 is my first choice but I am asking about 4064

[MtGun44]

Hodgdon's web site has the following: 150 Sierra, 31gr gives 2106; 160 Hornady, 28.7 gr gives 2000fps;
170 Sierra, 29.8 gr gives 1991 fps. All are starting loads and Jbullets. Good info on their site.

Bill

[Pb2au]

So far in a couple of current projects, 4064 is the sneaky Pete. It is working well for me in 30-30 and so far 30-40 Krag.

[LAH]

If "I" were wanting to do what you want to do "I" would use the Lyman starting load for the "J" bullet of chosen weight & begin there. At this time I have plenty of powder for my 30-30 but if I run out & have to switch to my stash of GI Brass 4895 which loads closer to 4064 data I'm following my own advice. Jim Taylor once said with cast in the 30-30 simply use jacketed data.

[Tatume]

Hodgdon has IMR 4064 data for 130, 140, 150, 160 & 170 grain bullets.

http://hodgdon.com/

[jonp]

Sometimes it is difficult getting information from this site. I specifically asked about castboolit data using imr4064 and 30-30 not jkt data. I can go to Hodgdons site and get that easily enough and already have

[Dan Cash]

jonp,
most of the guys have given you the best advice available for 4064 in .30-30. Your snarky reply in #12 above is uncalled for. If information is too hard to come by on this site, then go to planet reality and see what that brings you.

[Love Life]

jonp,
most of the guys have given you the best advice available for 4064 in .30-30. Your snarky reply in #12 above is uncalled for. If information is too hard to come by on this site, then go to planet reality and see what that brings you.

Gospel.

[jonp]

jonp,
most of the guys have given you the best advice available for 4064 in .30-30. Your snarky reply in #12 above is uncalled for. If information is too hard to come by on this site, then go to planet reality and see what that brings you.
My reply was not "snarky" in the least. Asking if someone has used 4064 in a 30/30 cast and getting hodgdons data for jkt bullets isn't a great deal of help. Maybe I should have been more clear in my question.

I have looked at the Hodgdons site and a few reloading books including Lymans Cast and Lymans #49 and do not see much in the way of data for cast and 4064. I realize it probably is not the best powder for this application but would like to try it as I can use it for some other purposes. Has anyone tried it for cast and do you have a min. to start at? If you have what has been your results with this powder? Thanks

[jonp]

If "I" were wanting to do what you want to do "I" would use the Lyman starting load for the "J" bullet of chosen weight & begin there. At this time I have plenty of powder for my 30-30 but if I run out & have to switch to my stash of GI Brass 4895 which loads closer to 4064 data I'm following my own advice. Jim Taylor once said with cast in the 30-30 simply use jacketed data.

I will look him up and read his advice. Thanks

[ShooterAZ]

jonp,

I agree with the being snarky comment... Uncalled for especially when every single person here was trying to help you. Maybe you should be a LOT more clear in your questions. Good Luck.

[Hannibal]

Why is it that when someone specifically asks for cast data and he is repeatedly given j-word data, even after he has said more than once he knows where to find j-word data and is looking for cast data, no one can understand why he's getting irritated. Had he come here asking for j-word data he'd have been taken to task for that. In short, if you don't know, why reply with off-topic comments?
I have seen it pointed out on many occasions that this is, in fact, a site for cast bullets.

[LAH]

Maybe this will help?

Check post 1,3,7 & 15
http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/336/36166-good-30-30-cast-loads.html

Check post 1, 10, & 14
http://www.handloadersbench.com/forum95/21584.html

Check post 9
http://gunhub.com/ammunition/9541-anyone-used-imr-4064-30-06-30-30-223-a.html

[gwpercle]

I looked through every manual I have, old and new and found nothing with cast boolits and 4064...don't know what the problem is. These hard times are forcing "creative" powder selections...keep us posted on how this works out...you may be on the verge of a discovery that 4064 is good with cast.
Gary

[jonp]

Maybe this will help?

Check post 1,3,7 & 15
http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/336/36166-good-30-30-cast-loads.html

Check post 1, 10, & 14
http://www.handloadersbench.com/forum95/21584.html

Check post 9
http://gunhub.com/ammunition/9541-anyone-used-imr-4064-30-06-30-30-223-a.html

This does. Thank you.

[jonp]

I looked through every manual I have, old and new and found nothing with cast boolits and 4064...don't know what the problem is. These hard times are forcing "creative" powder selections...keep us posted on how this works out...you may be on the verge of a discovery that 4064 is good with cast.
Gary

My point and why I asked

[ShooterAZ]

Why is it that when someone specifically asks for cast data and he is repeatedly given j-word data, even after he has said more than once he knows where to find j-word data and is looking for cast data, no one can understand why he's getting irritated. Had he come here asking for j-word data he'd have been taken to task for that. In short, if you don't know, why reply with off-topic comments?
I have seen it pointed out on many occasions that this is, in fact, a site for cast bullets.

Umm, maybe because there just isn't a whole lot of cast boolit data out there for IMR4064 in the 30-30? Everyone is just trying to help out the best they can. The 30-30 isn't a mysterious new cartridge for crying out loud.

[Pb2au]

AZ shooter nailed it. Sometimes there simply isn't any published data, so you have start puzzling it out.
30-30 is a good one to learn for example. Think about it, most full house jacketed loads stay in the 2000-ish fps range at a modest pressure.
Those numbers should sound a bit familiar in the cast world right?

[Bullshop Junior]

I was just loading up some 32 specials with this powder. I was loading 30gn under a 170gn bullet. For the 30/30 lyman shows 30.5 as being max with a jacketed, 27.0 as starting.

[MtGun44]

Because jbullet data is always a good starting point for boolits, and there is tons more of it,
and it is very useful for staying in the correct pressure range.

Another issue is that many sources for cast boolit data do not even attempt to go beyond
1400-1700 fps with anything, probably because they don't know how to do it and can't
even imagine driving boolits at 2000 fps or more.

Bill

[jonp]

Umm, maybe because there just isn't a whole lot of cast boolit data out there for IMR4064 in the 30-30? Everyone is just trying to help out the best they can. The 30-30 isn't a mysterious new cartridge for crying out loud.
Your right on that one. It's not like it has not been around for a little while. thats why I'm asking the question about 4064 and this one. I have all of the Unique I need to last a few years and was thinking of a rifle powder for it and found it odd that 4064 which is used in a bunch shows little data for it with cast.
Sorry if I offended anyone with my comments. We are all here to help each other out

[LAH]

No offense here.

[ShooterAZ]

No offense taken. 4064 is a wonderful powder. But... It is best suited for a bit larger case than 30-30 for optimum results. I love it in 30-06 & 308, none better (for me anyway). For 30-30 Win though, 4895, 3031, 4198, and even the lowly 2400 will give better results.

[Bullshop Junior]

No offense taken. 4064 is a wonderful powder. But... It is best suited for a bit larger case than 30-30 for optimum results. I love it in 30-06 & 308, none better (for me anyway). For 30-30 Win though, 4895, 3031, 4198, and even the lowly 2400 will give better results.

3031 is a great choice for 30-30...if you can find it. That tends to be the problem these days. I have been using titewad in everthing lately because it is what I can get me hands on...

[jonp]

I saw both 3031 and 4064 online in 8lb jugs the other day and it got me to thinking about it.

[TCLouis]

IMR 3031 covers a lot of loading and though not the best for many, will provide for more than "adequate performance" in many.

[mdi]

jonp,
most of the guys have given you the best advice available for 4064 in .30-30. Your snarky reply in #12 above is uncalled for. If information is too hard to come by on this site, then go to planet reality and see what that brings you.
I happen to agree with jnop. Snarky? Hardly! Way too many times (even though they think they are helpful) fellers will answer questions not asked and just clog up, and often times steer the thread away from the original question/intent. jnop asked about 4064 and cast bullets in 30-30. At least 4 other powders and jacketed bullets were answers for a 4064 with cast question. How many answers really addresses that question?

[Bullshop Junior]

I happen to agree with jnop. Snarky? Hardly! Way too many times (even though they think they are helpful) fellers will answer questions not asked and just clog up, and often times steer the thread away from the original question/intent. jnop asked about 4064 and cast bullets in 30-30. At least 4 other powders and jacketed bullets were answers for a 4064 with cast question. How many answers really addresses that question?

For me, especially in something like a 30/30, jacketed date is the same as cast. I want my cast bullets to achieve jacketed performance, isn't that out whole goal? So for most of my guns, I use starting jacketed loads for my cast.

[Elkins45]

Because jbullet data is always a good starting point for boolits, and there is tons more of it,
and it is very useful for staying in the correct pressure range.

Another issue is that many sources for cast boolit data do not even attempt to go beyond
1400-1700 fps with anything, probably because they don't know how to do it and can't
even imagine driving boolits at 2000 fps or more.

Bill

And even the cast bullet "expert" publications aren't consistent. The Lyman cast bullet manual I have limits some perfectly capable cartridges to <1700 fps loads primarily with pistol powders and then lists data for a few other cartridges at near 2500 fps with rifle powders, seemingly with no rhyme or reason. For example, the 358 Winchester is one of the most ideal cast boolet cartridges ever invented and yet Lyman lists only fast powders and not a single load over 2000 fps.

I didn't think the OP was being snarky in his reply, but I also don't blame the other posters for a little bit of thread drift. When you're venturing into uncharted territory you shouldn't be surprised when people keep pointing you back to the boundaries of the known map. "Here be dragons" doesn't really apply in this particular case, but I think everyone involved is earnestly trying to be helpful.

[Uncle R.]

Because jbullet data is always a good starting point for boolits, and there is tons more of it,
and it is very useful for staying in the correct pressure range.

Another issue is that many sources for cast boolit data do not even attempt to go beyond
1400-1700 fps with anything, probably because they don't know how to do it and can't
even imagine driving boolits at 2000 fps or more.

Bill

Yes. This. ^^^^^
<
I have cast boolit manuals that list nothing but small charges of shotgun or pistol powders in big rifle cases. Most loads show velocities well under 2000 fps. While I'll admit that they sometimes work OK my results with such loads were usually dismal.
<
It was Richard Lee's writings in the first edition of Modern Reloading that taught me how to use medium speed rifle powders with cast for not only higher velocities but much better accuracy than I ever got with a few grains of pistol powder in bottleneck cases. He doesn't so much give you loads for cast but rather explains how to figure them out using the jacketed data. It's only a couple of pages but the information there was worth the cost of the book. I recommend it highly.
<
As stated above, I doubt you could get too much 4064 in a .30-30 case from a pressure standpoint. I would expect you'd get better results from 3031 but if 4064 is what you have to work with you need to use enough to insure good ignition and clean burning. I suspect you'll find a case at least 3/4 full or more will give the best results. I'd start at 25 grs. and adjust according to accuracy. If your boolits are hard enough, fit well and wear gas checks I think you'll find a case full of 4064 works well.
<
Uncle R.

[aspangler]

To answer your question as you asked it, I started with the Lee 150 fp gas checked over 30 grains of IMR 4064. Settled at 32.2 grains in my 336 with Ballard rifling. 3/4" groups at 50 yards. Maybe that will help you.

[KYCaster]

311407 copy from a Lee group buy mold, Sears M52 (Win '94) with issue sights...:

30.0 IMR4064 = 1960fps.....1.45" 5 shot group @ 50yds.

Lee C310-160-SP....same gun:

31.0 IMR4064, no chrono data....1.60" 5 shot group @ 50.
32.0 IMR4064 = 2018fps......2.58" 5 shots @ 50.
33.0 IMR4064 = 2110fps......2.675" 5 shots @ 50.

3 months later....Win'94, Marbles tang sight, Lyman globe front.
Lee C310-160-SP.

30.0 IMR4064, no chrono data.....2.225" 5 shots @ 100yds.

That last combo does ~3MOA out to 300yds.

Jerry