Tumble lube, how much is enough?

[trucker76]

So the first round of my cast boolits that I tumble lubed were lubed way too light. How much is enough? Does every lube groove need to be filled? I relubed them and used more this time but can't seem to get all the grooves filled without using an obscene amount of lube.

[Maximumbob54]

Honestly I would stop right now and look up the 45/45/10 mix. Go find some Johnson's Paste Wax, buy some mineral spirits, and mix/warm them up and rebottle the results.

I was asking this same question when I started to tumble lube and would get some nasty results that often would still lead the barrel.

This is assuming your alloy hardness and bullet design is good for what you are doing. But the short answer to your question is the bullet should only look like it has a light varnish of lube on it with alox. Any more and it's pretty much just smoke filled stanky waste.

[Beagle333]

The lube doesn't need to be in the grooves. It just coats the bearing surfaces of the boolit. It shouldn't hardly stain the boolit at all. If you make em brown, you got waaaay too much.

[jmort]

I have a feeling you were close to the mark the first time. Only the surface lube matters if you are using Alox or 45-45-10. Read the 45-45-10 sticky by Recluse.

[dragon813gt]

I have to ask. Did you read about tumble lubing before you attempted it? Because trying to fill the lube grooves leaves me to believe you didn't. You should barely be able to see it on the bullets when done properly.

[telebasher]

This becomes much easier to do if you warm the boolits in the warm sun or in an oven. Try it and you will love it, guaranteed.

[tomme boy]

Depends on the gun also. I had to do them 2 times to stop the leading.

[trucker76]

I have to ask. Did you read about tumble lubing before you attempted it? Because trying to fill the lube grooves leaves me to believe you didn't. You should barely be able to see it on the bullets when done properly.

Actually I did. But one persons "barely able to see the lube" may differ from anothers. I was just curious because why put in lube grooves if a surface coat is all that's necessary?

[dudel]

Sounds like you had it right the first time. If done correctly, it won't fill the TL grooves anyway. First couple of time I just kept adding more till they looked like amber beans. It was way too much. Didn't hurt anything; just used more LLA than I needed to. It helped when I cut the LLA 50/50 with mineral spirits.

I'd go back and do another batch like the first time, and shoot them. The proof will be in the barrel.

[Recluse]

A pretty good rule of thumb for lube is to use only as much as is minimally necessary. For instance, in my wadcutters (.358), I have three lube grooves and over time I found that by simply lubing only one of them, my accuracy became more consistent and steady. Too much lube can cause you a whole nother set of challenges.

With tumble-lubing, less is almost always more. I tumble-lube, run 'em through the push-through sizer, then tumble-lube 'em again, load, shoot. By the time the second coat dries, you should be able to feel the lube and that will be a better indicator than actually seeing it.

:coffee:

[Maven]

"...why put in lube grooves if a surface coat is all that's necessary?" ...trucker76

trucker76, Because, in theory, lube in the grooves is "pumped" on to the bore's surface by rotational forces from the rifling and pressure from the powder charge and the cast bullet's resistance. Btw, I always give my CB's a healthy, groove filling liquid alox "bath."

[bedbugbilly]

My first question would be . . . "how did you know the first batch was way too light?" Did you load them, shoot them and have a problem? If so, what was the problem?

Everyone has their own preferences as far as lube. I cast two different RN, a SWC, a WC and a TC. The only one with a "tumble lube groove" design is my SWC. All I do is put a batch of them in a plastic bowl, heat them up with a hair dryer and then add a dollop of paste wax - swirl 'em around and put them out on a pice of wax paper. That gives ample lube if I'm going to size them. If I'm shooting "as cast" - I do the same thing and then after swirling them around in the paste wax, I heat them again - add just a "small drizzle" of a lox and swirl them again until I know they are all coated. Then I place them out on wax paper - let 'em dry overnight and the next morning, they are ready to load. If you add too muh a lox, they'll be sticky which you don't want. Mine end up with a nice coating that is dry and easy to handle and they never gum up my dies.

I shoot 'em that way out of a half dozen different 38s and also a 9mm and have never had a problem with leading. As already mentioned, the grooves on a conventional lube groove design doesn't need to be filled - it's a coating of the bearing surfaces that is what is important.

As I said, everyone has their own way of doing it and their preferences of lube formulas, etc. What I do, works for me, is quick and easy and seems to work well out of my pistols and revolvers. I primarily load target and plinking rounds and I don't push them to the limit. YMMV.depending on what your bore size is and the size of your cast rounds that you put through them.

[trucker76]

Yeah I had some trouble with a heavily leaded barrel in my 45. I reexamined the bullets next to some fresh cast and unless I looked very close I couldn't tell the difference and there was a very slight waxy feeling to them. I wanted to try the simplest solution first and hit the bullets with more lube. I was just curious about other lube techniques people use. I'm going to search the 45/45/10 someone mentioned as well as some other methods. It seems to be one of those things where you try different stuff until you find a method you like.

If the barrel still leads then I know I need to do some slugging. And yes I know I should've done that first. I'm just working with no money to buy a micrometer until work starts and I get a paycheck.

[Handloader109]

Honestly I would stop right now and look up the 45/45/10 mix. Go find some Johnson's Paste Wax, buy some mineral spirits, and mix/warm them up and rebottle the results.

I was asking this same question when I started to tumble lube and would get some nasty results that often would still lead the barrel.

This is assuming your alloy hardness and bullet design is good for what you are doing. But the short answer to your question is the bullet should only look like it has a light varnish of lube on it with alox. Any more and it's pretty much just smoke filled stanky waste.
Yep smoking stanky for sure. I'm Powder coating mine!

[mpmarty]

45/45/10 is your friend. It's all I ever use in rifles and pistols. Quick, easy and no problems.

[rsrocket1]

So the first round of my cast boolits that I tumble lubed were lubed way too light. How much is enough? Does every lube groove need to be filled? I relubed them and used more this time but can't seem to get all the grooves filled without using an obscene amount of lube.

Just wondering, why did you say "way too light"? Did you get leading on the muzzle end of the barrel? If so, then yes, your bullets ran out of lube. If you simply suspect "way too light", you should shoot them as is anyway to prove it. You may be surprised at how little is really enough.

[trucker76]

Just wondering, why did you say "way too light"? Did you get leading on the muzzle end of the barrel? If so, then yes, your bullets ran out of lube. If you simply suspect "way too light", you should shoot them as is anyway to prove it. You may be surprised at how little is really enough.

the barrel was leaded from one end to the other but mostly at the muzzle. generally from what I read leading at the breech is gas cutting and leading at the muzzle is low lube. As I don't have the ability to measure a slug from the barrel yet I want to eliminate the low lube as a possibility. As soon as I can buy a mic I can slug the barrel and check that too. I'm running the bullets as cast from a .452 mold which from my reading should be fine for a factory xd barrel. But maybe I got an oddball. Here's a pic of the barrel from the breech end.

103160

[44man]

I went through all of the same stuff to find TL boolits will lead my bores. Maybe it is OK with a 3" barrel but I shoot big, heavy guns with longer barrels.
I just lube TL boolits with Felix and they work. No way a skin on a boolit is going to hold up. I am still convinced Alox burns in the bore to leave deposits that promote leading. Adding wax just tempers the Alox. Smoke and stink when you shoot should be a clue to something.

[rsrocket1]

My first guess is that your bullets are too small to begin with. That leads to gas cutting and the bullets never do bump up to sealing the bore. You'll get a good coating of lead all the way down the bore. You should measure your barrel with a slug. I'll bet the boolits are too small and [too hard or being driven too slow] to seal the gases.

[BAGTIC]

"...why put in lube grooves if a surface coat is all that's necessary?" ...trucker76

trucker76, Because, in theory, lube in the grooves is "pumped" on to the bore's surface by rotational forces from the rifling and pressure from the powder charge and the cast bullet's resistance. Btw, I always give my CB's a healthy, groove filling liquid alox "bath."

If yhat is true why do I find so many bullets at the berms with some or all of the grooves full of lube? If centrifugal force can't spin the lube out of the grooves in free flight and even under the shock of impact why should we expect it to happen in the bore? I can't prove it but I have always suspected that the role of bullet lube was to prepare the bore for the next shot which in turn lead to the custom of firing a fouler before getting down to business. I have also suspected that the role of gas checks is not to prevent lead fouling but to scrape any fouling from the bore before the next shot, like the scraper ring on an engine piston.

[TXGunNut]

Sounds like a fit issue, takes very little LLA for a trip thru a pistol bbl. I use two light coats for a 22" rifle bbl for well over 2000 fps, my 45's refuse to lead or even get dirty.

[Shiloh]

A slight golden color is plenty. More is NOT better. It only takes a little bit.

Shiloh

[HiVelocity]

I tumble lube every cast bullet I cast, whether its a TL design or not, with 45-45-10.

My boolits are sized and gas checked first, usually lubed with WD-40, or similar lube. A day or two later, after the WD-40 has dried/dissipated, I tumble lube with 45-45-10 with a "golden" haze. Dry overnight, load. I got this info, I think, from a post by Ranch Dog, Michael Reamy. None the less, it works! Just food for thought.

HV

[Hooker53]

I bought a new Lee .357 sizer where you get the bottle of A-Lox with it. I tried to squeeze some out and found it must have been on the shelf to long. Had to thin it down in a hot tub of water. Did fine then. If I had tried to use that I don't think I could have seen the Boolit for all the lube on it after tumbling them.

[Foto Joe]

Well, you've got tons of advice on this thread about tumble lubing so there's not much I can add. But I would be interested in knowing what kind of alloy you're using and what the mold is. Are you using COWW's or SOWW's or a combination of the two? Are you water dropping? (not needed for 45ACP by the way) Are you sizing these boolits and if so using what?

45ACP is pretty forgiving when it comes to cast boolits I've found so if you're getting leading you need to give us some more information. And yes if you're going to tumble lube then 45-45-10 is the hot ticket.

[trucker76]

I'm using 50/50 coww/pure +2% tin air cooled. The pencil scratch test puts it at about 12bhn give or take which should be perfect in front of 4.6gr of bullseye which turned out to be the load my XD likes.

My leading issue did seem to be a lube issue. I relubed the bullets and have fired 150 so far and aside from some powder residue the barrel is shiny squeaky clean. Now I have another issue. That issue could be too much lube. Whats happening is when the bullet nose rides up the feed ramp lube is being scraped off and building up. Eventually I'll get a round that will not go into battery and when I pull it out there's crud packed in the front lip of the case in an area roughly the size of the feed ramp. If I scrape the crud out with a fingernail then reload the round the slide goes into battery just fine.

I'm seriously considering trying the powdercoating. Plus I can have trendy colored boolits.

[Foto Joe]

It definitely sounds like now you've got too much lube if the feed ramp is getting mucked up. You might want to just wipe the boolits off with mineral spirits before you box them. I tend to do this on my auto loader cartridges just as a matter of habit that dates back to when I tumble lubed.