Do I need to just grow up and get one?

[Lefty Red]

I tumble lube for my pistols and 30/30 rifle.

I am getting into 45/70 single shots and higher velocity rifle rounds.

Can I get buy with tumbling or do I need to get a luber?

On the 45/70, I know I can just pan lube or dip lube them. I guess I could do it for all the rifle calibers.

Just wondering.

Lefty

[ACrowe25]

Pan lubing will become the most hated part of the process if you continue it longer then 100 boolits at a time IMO. How often you expect to shoot it? I pan lubed 500 boolits before at one sitting and it was terrible!

If you can swing it, just buy a lube sizer. You won't regret it! It took me awhile to save for one but it was probably the best purchase I made in this hobby.

[Old Caster]

If you are older than 91, don't buy one because you won't get to use it long enough. Anything below that, go and get one. If you are less than 75 get a Star or Magma.

[VHoward]

Save up and buy what you want regardless of age. I would buy a sizer.

[dilly]

I went from pan lubing to dry tumble powder coating. I didn't want to spend the money but the real reason is I didn't have the bench space. You still have to buy the push through sizers though. Don't have any plans to get a lube sizer.

[bbqncigars]

There's different options available for your boolits: pan lubing (yech), tumble lubing, lube/sizer, powder coating, Hi-Tek coating, and paper patch, just to name a few. The last three can be done fairly cheaply via thrift store purchases if cost becomes a major factor.

[country gent]

The 45-70 isnt bad to pan lube as the bullets are a bigger dia and stand up easier in the pan. as the bullets get smaller they dont stand as stabile due to smaller dia. The lube sizers make this chore so much easier and faster. With softer lubes you can finger lube also, sort of similar to packing a wheel bearing. Pinch off a little lube and press it into grooves with your thumb working around. One plus to tumble lubing is the nose gets lubed also. On bore ridering noses this can make a big diffrence. Ive pan lubed 45 cal at times ( testing new lubes and didnt want to clean out the sizer) but its a slow process and a pain setting all the bullets up to do it.

[Lefty Red]

As far as the 45/70, I should be shooting around 500-750 rounds a year. Its a Handi Rifle and will be used as a SEMO hog and deer killer.
Plan on getting the Buff Classic, later this year.

The other rifle caliber with be 30/06. It will be shot more, closer to 1000 rounds a year.

I figure I won't be shooting more than 100-150 of each in one range outing as we shoot 38s in levers and pistol way more.

I was thinking the 45/70 could be dipped or pan lubed in 100 round batches without much pain. The 30 cal I am sure would be more of a PITA, but doable.

Lefty

[357maximum]

Yes...do it once...buy a STAR......you will never look back, but if you do happen to look back you will both laugh and curse yourself for not doing it sooner.

[enfieldphile]

I know that's right!

I started out w/ a RCBS LAM 30 years ago. It still works perfect. It's still just as slow as ever! I used to dred the time it took to L&S boolits. :violin:

Since I got the Star, I look forward to L&S'ing now! :)

We have a saying in Texas for when it comes to paying for something you really need/want: "It only hurts for a second."

Besides, a Star really doesn't loose value! Guys on Evil-Bay pay as much or sometimes more for an used one as for a NIB one! Buy a Star, use it responsibially, keep it clean, in a year it's about held it's NIB value. Buy a new car, truck or computer. What's it worth in a year? Phhhhffffpt! That's what it's worth. :bigsmyl2:

Put on your big-boy pants and go for it! ;)


Yes...do it once...buy a STAR......you will never look back, but if you do happen to look back you will both laugh and curse yourself for not doing it sooner.

[gmsharps]

I started out pan lubing out of necessity until I could afford a Lyman. Once I discovered the Star machine I worked part time to pay it off. I still have the Lyman for special needs but the Stars I have get most of the work. Did you catch the plural on the Star. They are an addiction as well as molds and when you see one at a great price you get it to. That way you can use different lubes for different purposes without having to clean out the sizer. I picked one up for $5 once that was covered in grease and had a cracked collar. A good boiling and a alunimum weld on the crack and it works great. I picked up another for $20 that did not work and came with 8 sizer dies. After boiling out the old lube I found a second leather washer inside the lube tube clogging it up and after removing it it is a super machine. So keep your eyes open there are deals out there you just have to be ready.

gmsharps

[ssnow]

Like any other tool purchase, whether or not it's worth it to you comes down to money and time. There are other things that may play a role in the decision as well, like expected future needs, pride of ownership, quality of work performed, method of operation. It's not really a matter of right or wrong, better or worse.

I have the Ballisti-Cast sizer and am well pleased with it. A machine of this type, whether Ballisti-Cast or Star, makes the job much easier and faster. Once you own a machine that makes the job easier and faster, then that opens up new possibilities. One may cast a lot more, and expand what he is casting for, when he owns equipment that makes better use of his time. Time vs. money. The age old dilemma :) I have no doubt that you can get by with your current system.......but what would you do if you had a better system? Have you ever noticed that us guys on the forum can spend your money really fast :)

[Dan Cash]

I tumble lube for my pistols and 30/30 rifle.

I am getting into 45/70 single shots and higher velocity rifle rounds.

Can I get buy with tumbling or do I need to get a luber?

On the 45/70, I know I can just pan lube or dip lube them. I guess I could do it for all the rifle calibers.

Just wondering.

Lefty

I pan lube everything that I don't paper patch. For me, pan lubing is way faster than any sizing machine except a Star. The money saved is spent on components and guns. If you would like my recipe, pm me for details.

[kungfustyle]

pan lubing isn't bad, but you can also follow RandyRat's tip to heat the boolits and dip them into the hot lube. Size the boolits and you are off and running. However, if you buy a sizer and don't like it you can sell it for 90% of what you bought the thing for....

[captaint]

My Star is by far the most enjoyable piece of loading equipment I own. I actually like using the Star. I measure the distance (the amount of punch hanging out of the machine) on the punch, write it down for each boolit, and guess what ? Nothing to it.... Mike

[hickfu]

I have been pan lubing for years and Im tired of it now!!! I have so many different pans with different colored lubes in them for different boolits... i cut the boolits out with my home made lube cutter and then put more boolits back in their place and pop it back into the toaster oven until the lube melts, take it out until the lube cools enough to cut out the boolits and do it all over again.... I am soooo tired of to Im going to get a lube/sizer. I was trying to decide between a Lyman 4500 and an RCBS LAM 2 but now I see everyone talking about the STAR so Im thinking along that line but geeeze they are expensive.... Im disabled and have very little income (the disability is the reason to stop pan lubing... hurts too much now) I still dont know what route Im going to go as far as a lube/sizer but eventually I will get something.

Doc

[Silverboolit]

Check E Bay for lubsizers. I used to pan/tumble lube and hated it. Too much wasted everything. Time. Lube. Patience. I really wanted a STAR, but I realized that I don't really need the output that the Star puts out. I got a used RCBS LAMII for less than a hundred, shipped. Cleaned it up and it just works.

[Wayne Smith]

I figure that the Star is great if you are shooting a lot of a few calibers. I'm casting for over 20, I have a Lyman and an RCBS, one for pistol/BP lube and one for smokeless rifle/pistol. It works for me. If I shot competition it would be different. That would be thousands of one boolit. Exactly what the Star is made for.

[Char-Gar]

Yes...you need to grow up and buy one. :-)

[Dale53]

I have a Star and an RCBS luber/sizer. Up until recently, I had a Lyman (sold that to a friend who was just getting into casting).

I shot black powder cartridge rifle for fifteen years. I pan lubed nearly all of my bullets for that purpose. I bought cake pans from second hand stores and did several hundred at a time. The lube you use makes a tremendous difference in how easy or hard it is. I used Emmert's home mix and it worked extremely well. I just pushed the bullets out. You can read about the process, here:
http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/HowTo/Dale_Lube.pdf

I use the Star for 90% of all of my lubing/sizing. HOWEVER, the Star does not do long bullets well (black powder cartridge rifle bullets like the 40/65 and 45/70). The bullets are too long for the die. You CAN do it by running all of the bullets through once, resetting the luber base punch then running them again (pain in the tuckus).

Mostly, these days I shoot pistols and the Star SHINES there, for sure.

There is nothing wrong with using the Star for most of your bullets and pan lubing for black powder, long bullets, etc. That's what I do. Use the process that works for the particular task you have. I agree with Char-Gar - get a Star. I have never met a man who cheerfully gave up his Star...

FWIW
Dale53

[Bent Ramrod]

Nobody put it better than Elmer Keith:

"The price of the [sizing/lubricating] machine will soon be justified by the saving in time, as well as by the added convenience and accuracy of its use and the elimination of all surplus grease from the bullet and hands. When lubricating bullets by hand, I always get some of the grease on my clothes as well, and my nose never fails to itch just about the time my hands get greased well and good--everything manages to get well lubricated by the time the job is finished."

Avoid sellers who use the terms "vintage," "rare" and "antique," and keep your eyes open while attending yard sales, reading swap sheets and gun club bulletins and touring gun shows. You should be able to find a used Lyman, RCBS or other hobby reloading lubricator/sizer for $35 or less that still has decades of use in it, certainly by the time you get good and tired of the pan lube/Kake Kutter thing.

And just my opinion--you don't shoot enough rounds in any one caliber to justify a Star, especially at the prices they are going for now. A Star sizing die for each of the extra calibers you load will add at least $100 to the cost of the Star.

[Tar Heel]

Ditto on the above!

[Maximumbob54]

If you do think you might want to try pan lube first then try and find or make a "cake cutter" for removing the bullets from the hardened lube. That will speed up pan lubing by a good margin. You can usually make one from a case that you have opened the neck enough and something to poke through the flash hole to puch the bullet out.

[hermans]

I agree 100% with Dale53, get a RCBS for the long boolits, and a Star for the high volume pistol stuff.

[kayak1]

Nobody put it better than Elmer Keith:

"The price of the [sizing/lubricating] machine will soon be justified by the saving in time, as well as by the added convenience and accuracy of its use and the elimination of all surplus grease from the bullet and hands. When lubricating bullets by hand, I always get some of the grease on my clothes as well, and my nose never fails to itch just about the time my hands get greased well and good--everything manages to get well lubricated by the time the job is finished."

Avoid sellers who use the terms "vintage," "rare" and "antique," and keep your eyes open while attending yard sales, reading swap sheets and gun club bulletins and touring gun shows. You should be able to find a used Lyman, RCBS or other hobby reloading lubricator/sizer for $35 or less that still has decades of use in it, certainly by the time you get good and tired of the pan lube/Kake Kutter thing.

And just my opinion--you don't shoot enough rounds in any one caliber to justify a Star, especially at the prices they are going for now. A Star sizing die for each of the extra calibers you load will add at least $100 to the cost of the Star.

A new die and punch for a star will be $57 if you don't need the punch it's just $42 well spent $'s.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?34499-Star-dies-that-I-make

[Springfield]

I can do this 45-70 with my Star, how much longer do they get? Just tell the guys at Magma where you want the holes drilled in your die. I used to pan lube but not after my wife and I started doing a couple of Cowboy matches a month, I just don't have that much time. You will never wear out your Star and when you are done with it sell it for about what you paid for it. How many other things can you say that about?

103124

[bbqncigars]

All I will say is that my Star is well worth the price. Lathesmiths dies make it even better. Chris makes the dies far cheaper than I could make my own (given my current wages/hr). Buy a Star, and the requisite dies/punches from Lathesmith, and you will not go wrong.

[dragon813gt]

Yes, you need to grow up. You should buy a Lubesizer of some sort. The cheap route is RCBS/Lyam. The machine is cheaper along w/ the dies and punches. It's not that slow if you're only doing 100 bullets at a time. If you want to go high volume you need a Star or Ballisticast MKVI. I still haven't decided which one of those I'm buying.

[bbqncigars]

As far as boolit length in the Star, Chris made me a nice die for the 457132 NOE 535gr Postell that works very well. As does the 4 holes/row die that he made for the .512 850gr Rockrat boolit in my avatar.

[Patrick L]

I agree that any money spent on tools only hurts briefly, the convenience the tool provides lasts forever. I have always found my RCBS LAMII and my two Lyman's fast enough and convenient enough, but if others say the Star is even better I won't dispute it.

I would get a sizer, you may not use it for everything but you will use it and like it! As to which one that's up to you. I would say short of jeopardizing your ability to pay your bills and buy food, buy the best you can afford.

[Lefty Red]

Think I am going to go with the Lyman. Hate to have to rebuy sizing dies, since I normally use LEE puch throughs.

Lefty

[ACrowe25]

Think I am going to go with the Lyman. Hate to have to rebuy sizing dies, since I normally use LEE puch throughs.

Lefty

Offer Em up here for sale.

I ONLY shoot flat nosed boolits. I went the Tom at accurate molds website and bought 3 flat top punches (three sizes for various calibers) for around $8 shipped. May be something to look into if your like me.

Also I only shoot lee molds as of now. So with that being said there are no top punches made for it. Thus you use a recommended list that really... Don't fit. Would mar my boolits. So I just went the flat nose route and toms punches.

If you sell your push throughs at a decent price you may only be out $10-20 at the end of the day! Be sure to you a coupon from midway or something. It's like $20 off $175 at the moment (google) and there's a free die! Lol

[warf73]

dip lube them
I've dipped thousands of boolits and still do in some caliber .4785"(480ruger), .460"(460weatherby) and .312"(7.62mosin) (low volume rifle/pistol) even tho I have a star. Depending on your lube pan lubing becomes a frustrating feat, as some lubes just don't work well with it. Unless you cookie cutter them then most all work out well.

The star is a great investment, I would get the air hook up and buy your sizing dies from Lathesmith.

[a.squibload]

Glad I bought a LAM a long time ago, they seem expensive now.
Yes, get a sizer sooner or later, but try powdercoat as well, you can get into that pretty cheap
if you "dry tumble" the powder onto the boolits, and you already have push-through sizers.
I never tried pan lubing 'cause I had the LAM, not ruling it out completely though.
Gonna try paper patch too, one of these days.

[gwpercle]

Once you get one you will NEVER go back. The best thing I ever did, was get one.....I don't even want to think about pan / tumble lubing.

And if Elmer says "GET ONE" then get one...that old man knew his stuff!

Gary

[cbrick]

I figure that the Star is great if you are shooting a lot of a few calibers. I'm casting for over 20, I have a Lyman and an RCBS, one for pistol/BP lube and one for smokeless rifle/pistol. It works for me. If I shot competition it would be different. That would be thousands of one boolit. Exactly what the Star is made for.


And just my opinion--you don't shoot enough rounds in any one caliber to justify a Star, especially at the prices they are going for now. A Star sizing die for each of the extra calibers you load will add at least $100 to the cost of the Star.

That's just plain silly.

I have over 70 molds and cast/reload for at least 20 calibers and every single one of those boolits in both large and very small runs and both rifle and handgun, PB and GC are sized/lubed on my Star lubrisizers.

There are a lot of silly old wives tales about Star sizers such as you can't seat a gas check with a Star or a Star is only for handgun bullets or they are only for large runs of bullets and that's exactly what they are . . . Silly old wives tales.

The truth of the matter is that the Star lubrisizer WILL size your boolits more concentrically than ANY in & out base first sizer and the Star will only put lube where you want it, in the lube grooves.

Rick

[Bent Ramrod]

Sizing concentrically is a matter of careful operation of the sizer. It is not a magical quality endemic to the sizer itself. Most, if not all, of the commercial cast boolits that many people vocally disdain on these forums were rammed through Star sizers.

Star sizer/lubricators are indicated for high speed mass production. If you are feeding a police department, a pistol team, a machine gun, or a boolit business, you need one. If you value your spare hobby time at hundreds of dollars per hour, you need one, or better, you need a servant to do your sizing and lubricating for you. If not, if you are a hobbyist on a limited budget, they are a luxury option, not an essential need. If you do need a Star for a real reason, you also need gang moulds, PID-controlled hundred pound melters, and regular deliveries of lead alloy. Better get some progressive loading machines to assemble the output into cartridges, too.

The deal with which-is-better base first vs nose first sizing has been around since the Shooting and Fishing days. As soon as the one concept is accepted and in use, somebody comes along passionately declaring it is no good and the other way is the only one to use. Like the similar artificial controversies over straight-line vs tong tool loading, the .270 vs .30-06, the 9mm vs the .38 spl., and push feed vs controlled feed, it is a device to fill column space, to get people all "het up" and to sell stuff to people who already have perfectly good stuff.

The old wives' tale told here is that spending the most gets you the best for any and all purposes whatsoever. If it was true, we would all have to drive Rolls-Royces to work, wear Rolex watches to tell time, buy high-end custom rifles to plink tin cans and live in mansions rather than apartments, or else face the lectures and homilies of those who have purchased their superiority to the rest of us along with these high-end toys.

The OP indicated that he shot at least three different calibers. My old price for Star dies and punches was in the $30 range, so I figured three of them would go for a hundred or so. Now it looks like a die and punch set is $40 to $50 each, so three different calibers would be $120-150 or so. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[cbrick]

Yep Bent, you just keep telling yourself all that. Say it over and over and over and it will save you all that money that folks with live in maids spend.

Rick

[Bent Ramrod]

An incisive and brilliant reply. May your Stars continue to validate your life.

[cbrick]

An incisive and brilliant reply. May your Stars continue to validate your life.

Ok, I give up. You are absolutely correct. From now on I will buy nothing but LEE.

Rick

[LenH]

I just got a Star this past week, yes it is a bit pricey, but it is a dandy machine. I have used a RCBS for the past 35 years and yes it does the job intended. I also recently bought an 8 cavity mold
that will make a great big pile of boolits in a short amount of time. I shoot Bullseye and the mold I picked up is of a boolit I have been buying for the past 10 years.

I sized 1500 boolits with the RCBS and it took what seemed like forever therefore the Star. The old RCBS is still mounted to the bench right next to the Star and it will be
used from time to time, but I want to see how the next batch will go with the Star. By the way the Star isn't that hard to set up, I did it in about 10 minutes. I just need to get some
of Chris Smith's locking nuts for the punch.