Which .358" boolit for whitetails?

[Lefty Red]

Target:Med to small whitetail deer (100-150# range)

Range:100 yards max

Weapon:T/C Contender with 10" bull barrel in 357 Mag and Ultra Dot.

I would like to use a CB this year. Used XTPs in the past. Was thinking of a LEE 358-158-RF or the C358-158-SWC. Also have a Lyman 358429, a Keith style 170gr PB.

Any thoughts?

Lefty

[Blammer]

Lee 358-158.

Puts the smak on them for sure.

Here is my 360 DW rifle. I'm shooting the NOE 360 180 FP in this but I have NO qualms about using the Lee 358 158 RF.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/2007%20Deer/DSCN6242.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/blammer8mm/media/2007%20Deer/DSCN6242.jpg.html)

Here's the 100yd group of this lee boolit.
Of course it's a rifle but your TC should do just as well.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Targets/100yd357mag.jpg (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/blammer8mm/media/Targets/100yd357mag.jpg.html)

[Blammer]

and like the target above 9gr of bluedot should do well! or at least bluedot and how ever much works for you.

[sawzall]

Hey Blammer, is that a 360 Dan Wesson rifle? Any details on it? Just a rechamber or more work involved to get it to cycle?

Lefty Red, the Lee 158-RF is a nice boolit but if you find you want something with a gas check, the Ranch Dog 358-175-RF is a real nice one too. I have the standard lube groove version from NOE and love it. I need to push it hard in my Rossi though for best accuracy.

[Lefty Red]

Hey Blammer, is that a 360 Dan Wesson rifle? Any details on it? Just a rechamber or more work involved to get it to cycle?

Lefty Red, the Lee 158-RF is a nice boolit but if you find you want something with a gas check, the Ranch Dog 358-175-RF is a real nice one too. I have the standard lube groove version from NOE and love it. I need to push it hard in my Rossi though for best accuracy.

I saw that one. I like the 360-180-RF with the HP pins. Its offered in a GC design as well.

Lefty

[Blammer]

It started out as a winchester 357 mag. I chambered it for 360 DW cartridges, Modified an extra set of ejector rails to make it function properly with the longer cartridge.

I like the bit longer cartridges to get more slow burning powder in them. :)

[dragon813gt]

MP 359-640
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa39/dragon813gt/Firearms/Reloading/F4A90244-AD23-4C2D-9536-41A6B5DB023B-646-0000009351C14C11.jpg

The target was at 100 yards offhand, sling supported, w/ my Marlin 1894c. The refrigerant jug was at 150 yards. This bullet is dead nuts accurate in everything I've shot it in. Perfect meplat and weight for smacking down a whitetail. The stepdaughter loves shooting these, over top of W231 instead of H110, because of the sound they make when they hit the target :)

I can see this bullet being MOA w/ an Ultradot and proper rest.

[Lefty Red]

It started out as a winchester 357 mag. I chambered it for 360 DW cartridges, Modified an extra set of ejector rails to make it function properly with the longer cartridge.

I like the bit longer cartridges to get more slow burning powder in them. :)

That is cool!
Was the over all length of the 357 Max a hinderance? That reason for the 360 DW?

[Lefty Red]

MP 359-640
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa39/dragon813gt/Firearms/Reloading/F4A90244-AD23-4C2D-9536-41A6B5DB023B-646-0000009351C14C11.jpg

The target was at 100 yards offhand, sling supported, w/ my Marlin 1894c. The refrigerant jug was at 150 yards. This bullet is dead nuts accurate in everything I've shot it in. Perfect meplat and weight for smacking down a whitetail. The stepdaughter loves shooting these, over top of W231 instead of H110, because of the sound they make when they hit the target :)

I can see this bullet being MOA w/ an Ultradot and proper rest.

I like that meplat!

[Lonegun1894]

I have used both the Lee 158gr RNFP and the Lee 158gr SWCGC on deer, and these two and the Lyman 358156 on hogs, out of different weapons, ranging from a Ruger SP101 2 1/4" on the short end, to a 20" Rossi 92 on the long end, with a 4" and a 6" revolver, and a 10" Contender in the middle. Worked fine out of all of them.

[TCLouis]

Lonegun 1894

Tell us more details on kills with the 358156.

My Rossi seems to like it best at full power loading

[Lonegun1894]

Just to give you an idea of how I hunt, I try to get in as close as possible, and don't mind experimenting a bit with light loads at times. Now before this turns into an ethics debate, my practice includes clay pidgeons at 100yds with iron sighted handguns, and I expect 90% hits as a bare minimum, and expect 100% on the same targets at 75yds or less. Having said that, I do a lot of my hog hunting with a .22LR handgun, so using a .357 Mag seems like going overgunned sometimes.

Hogs are considered pests around here, but I still pass on any shot that I am not 100% sure of an exact hit on, cause I want to eat them, and not exterminate them, so will not take any shot that may even possibly result in a wounded and lost animal.

Now specifically on to the 358156, don't laugh too hard? It gives me the same exact performance on hogs as the Lee 158SWCGC. The only difference is that it has two crimp grooves as opposed to the single groove on the Lee, so I load .357 Mag loads, in this case 14.5grs of 2400, into a .38 Spl case, then seat the 358156 in just deep enough to crimp in the REAR crimp groove, giving me the same case capacity and pressures as if I had been using .357 Mag brass but seating to crimp in the front crimp groove. Why? Because I don't own a .38 Spl, and refuse to own one, or even allow one into the house, just in case one of these type of loads were to find its way into it and get someone hurt, so this is safe in MY circumstances, and I have A LOT of .38 brass, so I might as well use it. I get clean pass-throughs on broadside shots on hogs (most are 175# or less, but the biggest to date has been 350# and resulted in the same full penetration on a broadside shot out of my 4" Ruger Security Six). Head on shots, with impact being in the forehead, result in the bullet stopping in the ham or on the pelvis, but the biggest hog I have done this too so far has been 250#. Either way, I get enough power with this load to take a hog or deer. Longest shot to date has been with the Rossi 92, at 140yds, hitting just behind the right shoulder and exiting the left after breaking the shoulder blade on the way out. This was with range scrap alloy, so fairly soft, lubed with 2 coats of LLA, sized to .358", and GCd with a check made with a Pat Marlin checkmaker die, loaded over 14.5grs 2400 to push the 358156. I tried the Lee SWCGC and the 358156 side by side at the range, ten each, at the same bulls eye, and ended up with 20 rds in the same 2.25" group at 100yds. This was taking my time, about 2 rds per minute, and not any kind of rapid fire. I repeated this test with my 6" GP100, and got a rested 5" group with 20 rds. Yes, I need practice with the handgun, but this time I got two distinct groups, with the two bullets seeming to want to cluster separately, one just slightly above the other. Still good enough o keep both loads in the kill zone at 100yds, but I al still trying to figure out which shoots slightly tighter groups. To be fair though, so far, I have been getting 1/2" larger groups at 100yds with the same loads in the .38 cases as opposed to the .357 cases, and this isn't enough difference to stop me from using the .38 brass the vast majority of the time, especially since I usually get inside of 25yds. The last hog I got was 2 weeks ago, taken with the 358156 in a .38 case, at 8-10 yds. He weighed 150#.

[Djones]

NOE 360-180 wfngc over 14.5 grains of lil gun. Alloy is 97:2:1 PbSbSn water dropped sized to .360 homemade 50:50 moly grease beeswax and aluminum gas check.

My go to load. I can hit a paper plate all day long standing with my 1894c, fast paced shooting and iron sights 100 yards.

[Blammer]

That is cool!
Was the over all length of the 357 Max a hinderance? That reason for the 360 DW?

yes you cannot load a 357max in the loading gate or get it to function through the rifle.

[Lefty Red]

NOE 360-180 wfngc over 14.5 grains of lil gun. Alloy is 97:2:1 PbSbSn water dropped sized to .360 homemade 50:50 moly grease beeswax and aluminum gas check.

My go to load. I can hit a paper plate all day long standing with my 1894c, fast paced shooting and iron sights 100 yards.

Have you tried that bullet in HP? That bullet mold is on my short list.

[Lefty Red]

Now specifically on to the 358156, don't laugh too hard? It gives me the same exact performance on hogs as the Lee 158SWCGC.

You are the fourth person to tell me that.

[Lefty Red]

yes you cannot load a 357max in the loading gate or get it to function through the rifle.

They can get a 45/70 to cycle but not a 357 Max. That is just wrong!

[sawzall]

They can get a 45/70 to cycle but not a 357 Max. That is just wrong!

In an action designed for the .30-30 no less. What is the twist rate in your TC barrel?

[Lonegun1894]

The .45-70 is a larger/longer case, but the guns made for it are made with a longer loading gate, and the internals are modified to work with the longer case than the .357mag. Now for what it's worth, I have .357mag and .45 Colt chambered Winchester 94s and Rossi '92s. The 92 action feeds them smoother than the 94. I would imagine the 94 would be better for the .357 DW, or possibly even Max, at least as far as cycling is concerned.

As to the Lee and the Lyman working the same on meat, I really can't say I'm surprised. I mean, almost the same meplat, same weight, same alloy, same everything, at least in my case. The only real difference is the extra crimp groove, which is of advantage to me cause I load it to .357M OAL, and .357M pressure and performance, except in .38 Spl brass. I tried doing the same thing with the Lee bullet, but the lack of the 2nd crimp groove caused a few minor consistency issues so cost me accuracy. Now loading them to the same length, with the same powder, etc in either the .38 cases for use with ACTUAL .38 loads, or doing the same with .357 brass and .357 loads, the performance is identical. I just don't use them that way. Even my .38 loads are a bit on the warm end to be safe in an actual .38 though, even when loaded to .38 OAL, so I don't know if this would hold true if loaded to true .38Spl specs and the appropriate loads. My .38 loads, loaded to .38Spl OAL specs, are much closer to .38/44 loads than .38Spl book loads.

[Lefty Red]

Its stock, so 1-14"

[Djones]

Have you tried that bullet in HP? That bullet mold is on my short list.

Yes I have the four cavity RG. I plan to use the flat point for hunting deer and the HP for coyotes.

[HiVelocity]

I like, and use, the NOE (Ranch Dog) 360-165-RF/hp. It is a round nose flat point that works in everything. Swede has the round flat point configuration available as of today.

HV