Windows 8?

[snuffy]

Win XP is dead, so this is the new Toshiba 75-D laptop with windows 8.1

I'm told IF I had a smart phone, would have an easier time with the new system. But no smarts phone, so it's real tough to get along with.

Anybody else have win. 8? It's tough for us old f@rts to learn new things. But I like challenges, and hate failures, so I'll learn it.

[Bohica793]

I'm running it because it's my job to keep up with the new stuff. I also run Win 7, Mac OS X, Linux (3 different flavors) and Solaris. Win 8, like all the rest, just takes some getting used to. Having been designed more for the tablet realm, it is clunky in the desktop world but seems to run a little better overall than Win 7 (less resource intensive/better performance). Overall it's not an utter failure but it is not a compelling upgrade either.

[pmer]

Is XP still usable even though it is dead?

[oldred]

Do you like Win 7 or XP and don't want Win 8? I agree Windows 8 just flat out stinks but there's a cure! Classic Shell is a simple overlay download that makes Win 8 work more familiarly like Win 7 or XP, your choice, and it works great! I did that when I first got Windows 8 and I have installed it on a couple of friends' computers, try it it's a neat trick that will take care of the Win 8 annoyances and it's free.

Here's a review,

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2054660/classic-shell-4-0-review-free-utility-restores-the-full-start-menu-that-windows-8-1-didnt.html

[Heavy lead]

I've got 8 upgraded to 8.1, also use 7 on the desktop, I absolutely love Windows 8/8.1, it does freak some people out at first, including me.
You need to think apps, not programs anymore, it's some kind of a cross/hybrid of Windows 7 and an iphone or Android (I have an iphone and Android tablet) in my opinion to use.

[schutzen]

I'm running Windows 8. It is a piece of **** except for the anti-virus software. Most of my programs running considerably slower and some not at all. My anti-virus software is a different story. It kicks a** with Windows 8.

[Heavy lead]

I'm having just the opposite experience, the new Dell Ultrabook with the Pentium 5 smokes with the 8.1, way, way faster than the same processor (older generation) in the Toshiba that the LCD died (computer is still fine).
I did have to reinstall the driver on the touchpad, and simply the one finger scroll does not work with Windows 8, you will have to get used to the two finder scroll in my experience, and more than likely you will have to uninstall the Syntapics driver and reinstall, after that, it'll run smooth.

[CastingFool]

We replaced our old puter,with one with Windows 8. Hated it right off the bat. Tried for a few days, and returned it for full refund.

[Bonz]

Is XP still usable even though it is dead?

Windows XP is still usable. The issue is that Microsoft will no longer support it, no more security patches, etc.

[snuffy]

My track phone is hardly a smart phone! I have no use for a smart phone, my internet at home is plenty. Being retired and family that minds their own business, means my trac-phone is only turned on during a trip. It's just for road emergencies. I'm too lame to walk very far, so help will be needed if I break-down.

I liked windows XP, or maybe I should say I was used to it. Microsoft is no longer supporting it, (ended on the 8th), so every new virus will infect it pretty soon.

My desktop is still hooked up to the net, so far it's fine. As soon as I get this lapper full of what programs I want to transfer, the dell will be unhooked from the net. I'll still use it for pictures and writing in my journal.

Thanks oldred, I may take a look at that shell or overlay.

[454PB]

I've had a new laptop with Win.8 for about 10 weeks. At first, I didn't like it, then as I experimented with it, I found it's great. I did the free upgrade to Win8.1 and now like it even better.

Everything that the older windows OS could do is possible with Win8 if you learn to use it.

My one complain is that the old BIOS system has changed. Making the system boot differently is a lot more work now.

[cbrick]

Hate, disgust, despise, nauseating. All such weak words when talking windows 8.

Try and find a new computer without it. I am seriously considering an Apple.

8 is not a computer operating system. It is a cell phone app. I have zero need and even less desire of cell phone apps. I think there are too many people that run Microsoft doing some really good drugs to think that crapolla is a good thing.

Rick

[DougGuy]

I agree it is a *** because of the Metro screen, I mean cmon how many households or offices have a touch screen? M$ really fell off the side of the deep end with win8.

That said, I run it on two boxes here, in 32bit and 64bit. THE SINGLE MOST BENEFICIAL THING you can do to it, is to install Classic Shell (as previously mentioned) and dumb it down to look like XP/win7. You can customize the start menu, get rid of that horrid tiled "Metro" screen, get rid of the hot corners and all the stupid chit, it really makes win8 liveable.

Click the top link on this page to download Classic Shell: http://www.classicshell.net/downloads/

[OBIII]

Make sure your XP boxes are behind a good router. You can set the security up extremely tight on them. The only way you could get a virus is by clicking on something that you know you shouldn't, or open email that you know you shouldn't. Also, Virtual Machines (free software), will allow you to run your OS in a separate windowed environment. That way, if you get something, odds are it will only be the "virtual" components that are affected.

OB

[jonas302]

I hate windows 8 but all I need to do in get on the web that was pretty easy took a few weeks to figure out how to shut it off though
I dont think your xp is going to quit working just because microsoft doesn't support it I dont know much about puters but I wouldn't dream of upgrading one of that age to windows 8

[DLCTEX]

We and most I know have gone the Classic Shell route.

[KYCaster]

Get the Geek Squad to show you how to enable the "desktop" and disable the touch pad, get a wireless mouse and use it just like the older versions of Windows.

I was on the verge of demanding a full refund till I found a tech who actually knew what he was talking about.

Jerry

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I bought a new laptop in Sept 2013...came with 8
I upgraded to 8.1
It was a challenge to get use to for the first week.
But now I love it.
everything I do is faster than my old laptop.
Maybe it's 8.1 or maybe it's the new laptop ?

[MtGun44]

I've set up two Win8 machines for family members. I so despise it that I went out and bought three
new machines very quickly so that I could still get Win 7 which I used at work and is just fine.

Sorry, a phone OS for a computer is a PITA any way you choke it down.

Bill

[DougGuy]

My start menu on a clean boot. This is what Classic Shell looks like, you can make win8 look like XP, with the start menu, and the start button, you can kill the active corners, the Metro tiled desktop, it won't look like a phone app. Plus, it's FREE..

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/7a16fa4e-bc1d-45df-a331-2115e89cc353_zps111461b4.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/7a16fa4e-bc1d-45df-a331-2115e89cc353_zps111461b4.jpg.html)

[shooterg]

My old Dell still does everything I need it to, with XP and 2010 Office Pro. Don't want a new PC, but guess I'll have to go there when this one dies. #$%^&MicroSoft

[lead-1]

All the OS's are becoming more and more compliant to smart phones and making it harder and harder for me to see the forums I like.
As a result I have stopped visiting or flat out erased several sites that I used to visit almost daily. I can't work 80% of what my computer was designed to do so what make them think I can work a smart phone any better?
I have issues here on every visit but this is one of the few sites that I will overlook it because I enjoy being here.

[snuffy]

[QUOTE=KYCaster;2731940]Get the Geek Squad to show you how to enable the "desktop" and disable the touch pad, get a wireless mouse and use it just like the older versions of Windows.

I was on the verge of demanding a full refund till I found a tech who actually knew what he was talking about.

Jerry[/QUOTE

Yeah that #$%&*! touch pad is uubber sensitive, slow and is always getting touched in the wrong place! Drag in from the right because you missed it, the start menu pops up! Now how in tarnation do I make it go away!!!*. Then how do I get back to what I WAS doing!? (This is me cussing, directed at the laptop, win 8 program in particular.

I'll spend the week-end with the W-8.1, Monday I'll return it to Office Max for the set-up they offered and I paid for. The pencil necked GEEK that sold it to me will dump a bunch of unneeded stuff, and load a few programs that I can't seem to get to work. Like my e-mail won't "take" on it, and I need to be able to control the netgear router from the Toshiba.

Then, I'll ask about the shell game, most likely do that after he gets done tuning it. Lots of great help from these great members here, as usual! Thanks so much. Maybe he can install it while he's working with it?

Oh, and a warning. Don't think you're just going to pay the $529.00 + tax and go home. I wanted Microsoft word-office, so that was an extra 80 bucks. I always take advantage of OM's 3 year extended coverage, an extra 200 bucks. One small ray of light is a 50 dollar visa cash card, sort of a rebate from Toshiba. Add in 30 bucks for a win-8 cable that will allow me to transfer files directly from my XP dell desk top. Whine mode off!:violin:

[462]

I had a friend, who owns a computer tech business, send Windows 8 to computer hell, and install Windows 7.

[Bonz]

I just built and activated a new Windows XP machine for a friend. I didn't try but I'm confident that I would be unable to patch that new computer with Microsoft. Luckily, I have a fully patched image from early March 2014 that already has all the security patches installed. Also just built my first Windows 7 Pro computer for myself. Honestly have to say that its not as bad as I thought it would be. And definitely closer to Windows XP than Windows 8

[imashooter2]

Might as well get used to it. It's going to be around for longer than an XP box will still be viable.

[DougGuy]

There are some copies of XP that will remain in circulation, they are ones that have been gone over and stripped of bloated M$ code and junk nobody needs is taken out. One of these is called XP mini, 184mb .iso that installs unattended, it's sleek and fast and the most user liked XP that came along. You can find it on usenet sometimes, if you know where to go, or on a torrent.

There is a Windows 7 .iso out there too, Tiny7 from Experience that has been stripped of a bunch of junk, and it installs unattended, it's pirated of course, and it runs it's BUTT off, doesn't go to M$ for anything unless you tell it to. Both of these are done by power users interested in having a stable and fast OS and trust me, they both rock.. Best versions of Windows that ever were done.

I'm not saying people ought to go out and install pirated stuff, but there are ones who just want their stuff to fly and these fill the bill. I'm just putting this out there, to let you know, there are ways around M$ and their pre-installed cr@p. This means there is an XP and a Win7 that will be around regardless of what M$ does, and as long as you are behind a hardware firewall i.e. a cable modem/router and you run a decent security/anti-virus, you would be adequately protected.

I find it ironic that the more of Microsoft's junk that is ripped out, the faster and more stable the OS runs.

[Geraldo]

Snuffy, relax. I bought a laptop with touchscreen earlier this year with 8.0, which I immediately upgraded to 8.1 (big improvement). There is a learning curve, but it's good for your brain to learn new stuff. I don't think Win 8 is the future, but it will look more like 8 than previous versions.

[detox]

OMG..... i am SLOOOOOWLY learning new $400.00 computer with 8.1 as we speak. Its lots faster than my older computer with XP. The MidwayUSA site is super quick now.

[snuffy]

Snuffy, relax. I bought a laptop with touchscreen earlier this year with 8.0, which I immediately upgraded to 8.1 (big improvement). There is a learning curve, but it's good for your brain to learn new stuff. I don't think Win 8 is the future, but it will look more like 8 than previous versions.

Mines not a touch screen. I didn't want a touch screen. I'm not even sure this model comes as a touch screen . don't have,,--will never get, a smart phone, so I don't ever want to touch a screen to do what I want with a computer. I can just see a touch screen used by someone while eating chicken!;-):o:wink:

[pmer]

Too bad chicken grease won't be the worst goo on those screens.

[shooter93]

I'm like you snuffy so when I got this new laptop I had the local guy switch everything over for me. He loaded Classic Shell so it runs like Windows 7 which works much better for me. The only touch screen anything I have is a Kindle.

[Dale in Louisiana]

Work has me using Windows 7 because it's their computer. At home I have a MacBook Pro Retina, my first Apple computer since I went with Windows in 1990. After I won a free iPad and saw what Apple's been doing while I sat back and snorted from my SUPERIOR position as a M$oft user, I halted a long line of Windows machines and bought the MacBook. And an iPhone. Yeah, I drank the Koolaid. But it's GOOD Koolaid.

I have a dark side on this Mac. There is a partition on the drive with Windows 8.1 loaded on it just in case I need to run something under Windows. I seldom use it. I needed it today to format a new drive for one of my old Windows machines that's dedicated to my 3-D printer. When I fired up Windows, it had fifty-something updates waiting to be applied.

The old Windows machine, a Lenovo, bottom of the cost ladder on Tiger Direct, now had a solid state drive, which means it boots FAST. SSD's will spoil a man.

dale in Louisiana

[Geraldo]

Mines not a touch screen. I didn't want a touch screen. I'm not even sure this model comes as a touch screen . don't have,,--will never get, a smart phone, so I don't ever want to touch a screen to do what I want with a computer. I can just see a touch screen used by someone while eating chicken!;-):o:wink:

Hey, this is still America. If you don't want a smartphone (not sure what that has to do with the laptop you bought), don't get one. I know a woman who uses a typewriter because she won't get a computer or use the net. I talk to my phone using Dragon, which converts voice to text, and then email. Use whatever works for you, but I'll tell you this: learning to talk to my phone was a lot easier than finding typewriter ribbons. :wink:

[snuffy]

Hey, this is still America. If you don't want a smartphone (not sure what that has to do with the laptop you bought), don't get one. I know a woman who uses a typewriter because she won't get a computer or use the net. I talk to my phone using Dragon, which converts voice to text, and then email. Use whatever works for you, but I'll tell you this: learning to talk to my phone was a lot easier than finding typewriter ribbons. :wink:

Windows 8 and 8.1 is based on apps, not desktop icons. Apparently they catered to the 5-10% of the population that knows how to work apps. I've yet to find how to add/remove software, or anything that remotely resembles a desk-top.

I'm heading for Office Max in the morning, maybe to see if I can have them nuke the W-8 and replace it with W-7. If the pencil necked geek that sold it to me can get me up to speed on the W-8, I'll keep it.

Is there a website that has a tutorial for new W-8 users? Hey there's an idea, I'll do a search,,,------[smilie=1:

[imashooter2]

Windows 8 and 8.1 is based on apps, not desktop icons. Apparently they catered to the 5-10% of the population that knows how to work apps. I've yet to find how to add/remove software, or anything that remotely resembles a desk-top.

I'm heading for Office Max in the morning, maybe to see if I can have them nuke the W-8 and replace it with W-7. If the pencil necked geek that sold it to me can get me up to speed on the W-8, I'll keep it.

Is there a website that has a tutorial for new W-8 users? Hey there's an idea, I'll do a search,,,------[smilie=1:

Try clicking "desktop" on the start page with all the apps.

[Komodoj]

Windows 7 is the way to go. Windows 8 was really designed for touch screen?

[GrizzLeeBear]

Last year my old home computer died and I went and got a new one from Best Buy. Basically one of the cheapest ones they had. All I needed it for at home was email, internet, etc. It of course came with Windows 8 and I had no idea that it would be much different than Windows 7. When I turned it on and set it up, I said "What the..., why in hell would I want my desktop to work like a damn cell phone!". Microsoft had their head in the sand when everbody was rushing to mobile devices and they got caught with their pants down. Since all the other software developers got the jump on them with mobile operating systems, Microsoft decided to take it out on us desktop users! Stoopid! If I open a pdf file, it takes like 5 or 6 clicks to close the file and navigate back to the desktop. With Windows 7 you just click the red X. I did work with it for a while, but the more I used it, the more I loathed it.
So I did some searching, and like some others have stated, I found Classic Shell. Hooray, my desktop is back to the familiar Windows 7 look and feel! I've been running it for 6 months and have had zero problems with it.
Window 8 SUCKS big time! Download Classic Shell!

[searcher4851]

Windows 8. I had no choice with the new laptop. I don't like it and have been looking for alternatives. Thanks.

[KYCaster]

Windows 8 and 8.1 is based on apps, not desktop icons. Apparently they catered to the 5-10% of the population that knows how to work apps. I've yet to find how to add/remove software, or anything that remotely resembles a desk-top.

I'm heading for Office Max in the morning, maybe to see if I can have them nuke the W-8 and replace it with W-7. If the pencil necked geek that sold it to me can get me up to speed on the W-8, I'll keep it.

Is there a website that has a tutorial for new W-8 users? Hey there's an idea, I'll do a search,,,------[smilie=1:



Snuffy.......just remember........all those computer geeks are changing things just so they can laugh at us old farts who can actually add, subtract, do long division and communicate in the English language........"APP" is just another word for program.

There's no need to load an additional "shell" program......err......app. Everything you want is already in there. Get a wireless mouse (batteries don't last long so at the first sign of anything wrong, replace the mouse batteries), disable the touch pad (F3) and click on the "desktop" tile at the bottom left of the screen. Now things will be more familiar.

To switch back to the tile screen, take the cursor to the bottom left corner of the screen and left click. To close a prog.....app, take the cursor to the top left of the screen and click on the window you want for a drop down menu. To shut down, take the cursor to the top right of the screen.

I know it's a pain in the butt, but no worse than changing over from your typewriter to the computer way back when.

What really fried my axx was the pimply faced kid who thought it was great fun to mess with the stupid old geezer. Punch a few buttons without any explanation of what's happening then telling you, "that's the way it works." Give him your go-to-he77 look and tell him to get his supervisor. Complain loudly about the poor service and eventually you'll either get the answers you want or you'll go on a bloody rampage and get your satisfaction that way.

Anywaaaay.....that's what worked for me without excessive bloodshed.

Jerry (just an analog guy trying to get by in a digital world)

[snuffy]

[QUOTE=KYCaster;2734796]Snuffy.......just remember........all those computer geeks are changing things just so they can laugh at us old farts who can actually add, subtract, do long division and communicate in the English language........"APP" is just another word for program.

There's no need to load an additional "shell" program......err......app. Everything you want is already in there. Get a wireless mouse (batteries don't last long so at the first sign of anything wrong, replace the mouse batteries), disable the touch pad (F3) and click on the "desktop" tile at the bottom left of the screen. Now things will be more familiar.

To switch back to the tile screen, take the cursor to the bottom left corner of the screen and left click. To close a prog.....app, take the cursor to the top left of the screen and click on the window you want for a drop down menu. To shut down, take the cursor to the top right of the screen.

I know it's a pain in the butt, but no worse than changing over from your typewriter to the computer way back when.

What really fried my axx was the pimply faced kid who thought it was great fun to mess with the stupid old geezer. Punch a few buttons without any explanation of what's happening then telling you, "that's the way it works." Give him your go-to-he77 look and tell him to get his supervisor. Complain loudly about the poor service and eventually you'll either get the answers you want or you'll go on a bloody rampage and get your satisfaction that way.

Anywaaaay.....that's what worked for me without excessive bloodshed.

Jerry (just an analog guy trying to get by in a digital world)[QUOTE]

Thanks Jerry, that may be the way I'll go. Just getting rid of that touch pad will be a giant relief. It's so damn sensitive, and it has to do so many things, that it's frustrating when you're hunting for it, inadvertently touch it in the wrong place, then end up loosing where you were working.

What really grinds my *** is Toshiba didn't put much of a destruction book in with the laptop. Just a quick start guide, no clue besides how to turn it on and connect the power/charger.

I'm going to buy another cordless mouse, just like the one that's on this PC. Then I'll build a table to span the arms of my recliner, so there's room for the mouse, AND the vents on the side will not be blocked by the chair or my clothing.

Well, I'm off for the OM to drop it off for the streamlining/set-up. I'll get the mouse on the way home when he's finished. But first I have to brush a couple inches of heavy SNOW off the car!

[ShooterAZ]

I just set up my new computer Saturday, HP Pavillion 500 came with windows 8.1. After using it for a little bit, I LOVE IT. No problems learning it at all. It is smoking fast, and easy to use.

[MtGun44]

Well, that's ONE. LOL!

Bill

[oldred]

I'm heading for Office Max in the morning, maybe to see if I can have them nuke the W-8 and replace it with W-7. If the pencil necked geek that sold it to me can get me up to speed on the W-8, I'll keep it.


Classic Shell!!!!!!!!!

All the speed and other advantages of Win 8 but with the ease of use and familiar appearance/operating style of Win 7 or XP. your choice.

Several people have suggested Classic Shell and there's a darn good reason!

[Lee]

Ummmm. Why is everyone talking "wireless mouse"??? I gave up on them and wireless k'boards years ago, all just a PITA with no benefit over the corded variety. Don't tell me M$ is in cahoots with the battery manufacturers now? Next up, a M$ wireless mouse that only works with M$ batteries???????????

[Geraldo]

Snuffy, there are no instruction books or CDs with computers anymore. Instructions and downloads are online.

I'd recommend using the touchpad. I got used to them years ago and haven't touched a mouse since.

Without looking at your first posts I can't remember if you're running 8 or 8.1, but if you don't have 8.1 download it.

Once you've done that, hit the desktop tile. Move your cursor to the lower left corner of the screen and you'll see the little MS square. Right click that. To add/remove programs click control panel. To go to docs/pics/etc click file explorer. It will all look familiar from that point on.

[Pb2au]

I have been using W8 for a while now and actually like it.
Apps=programs, same same.
Like many things, it is just a learning curve. Now, to address the non-help you might get at Best buy and the like, I won't argue that. Those characters typically are not very helpful.
Snuffy nailed the genreal use. When you are on the desktop and need to get back to the dashboard/tiles page, just hit the windows button. If you need to find a program on the dashboard, just start typing the name of the program. It automatically goes to search mode and finds it.

[ShooterAZ]

Just make sure you get the 8.1 version! It is easy to switch back & forth to where you want to be.With 8.0, not so much.

[woodsxdragon]

I've had smartphones for at least the last four years. I grew up working on computers. And still the first thing I did was use desktop mode on 8. Its nothing against their new design. My friends love it but to me it seems like a waste.

[Pb2au]

Just make sure you get the 8.1 version! It is easy to switch back & forth to where you want to be.With 8.0, not so much.

Still on 8, and plan on staying there for now. It is good to hear that 8.1 is even more user friendly.
To find any documents/stored info/pictures, etc, I just hit the windows button+E and navigate via the windows explorer. But I am a dinosaur in that respect.

[dragonrider]

Win 8 sucks, there is nothing good about it.

[largom]

Have to wonder why Micro-Soft doe's not support XP anymore. According to a news report 95% of business's and ATM machines use XP. Guess M$ needs to make more $ by forcing us to buy new machines.

Larry

[w0fms]

Wife's and kids machine== Windows 8.1. Wife's still complaining about it, kids like it.

The old XP computers, put a new HDD in them, on the netbook I did Lubuntu and Wine and on the Pentium-D, I run Linux Mint 16 and Wine. On both the machines run the windows apps better and faster than Win XP did. It takes some technical skill to do so.

Mint 16/Cinnamon is what I am running, and it's brilliant. It's amazing that, for example, a Windows CD ripping app runs 3x faster on the same hardware...

And it's free. I didn't want to put a $125 Windows 7 or 8 on to a $80 machine...

[snuffy]

Well,,,,---- what a day yesterday was. A different geek this time at Office Max, the same girl I talked to initially to try to decide on which lap-top to buy. She recognized me, said "you actually came back and bought what we talked about"! She hears that all the time, seldom sees them back to actually buy.

She tried to explain a few things to me, I asked why there wasn't at least a few clues as to how to get started. She said, "just go online!" Uh huh, so how do you do that when everything is unfamiliar? Not sure exactly what she did to it, but it seems to work better. I got the same wireless mouse that I use on the PC, it makes the whole laptop work a lot better. I'm very impressed with the sharpness of the display screen, and the blazing speed of the wireless connection.

I asked about the classic shell, she said it wouldn't work well on the Toshiba laptop. Something about the drivers are set up for windows 8.1, it wouldn't work well with anything else. I think I'm going to stick with the 8.1 for a while, I need a challenge now and then to keep from freezing up, to keep interested. Now, if I ever decide to get a smart phone, I'll be up to speed right away.

When she was explaining things to me, her fingers flew over the touch pad activating the tiles to get to something, I said "whoa slow down, my brain doesn't work that fast anymore"! She said just click on that "cog wheel",,,--- wait a sec, whats a "cog wheel"? That little icon right here. That gets you to the control panel, and other stuff!

A lot to learn, that's for sure!

[snuffy]

Wife's and kids machine== Windows 8.1. Wife's still complaining about it, kids like it.

The old XP computers, put a new HDD in them, on the netbook I did Lubuntu and Wine and on the Pentium-D, I run Linux Mint 16 and Wine. On both the machines run the windows apps better and faster than Win XP did. It takes some technical skill to do so.

Mint 16/Cinnamon is what I am running, and it's brilliant. It's amazing that, for example, a Windows CD ripping app runs 3x faster on the same hardware...

And it's free. I didn't want to put a $125 Windows 7 or 8 on to a $80 machine...

I wanted windows seven put on my desk top PC, but the cheap dell didn't have the guts to take it. My great nephew is a computer geek, has a computer sales and repair store. He looked into switching from XP to W-7, no can do. I also wanted to put in a better graphics card so I could run google earth. The existing card was hard-wired to the mother board, and no slot for a new one.

He cloned the hard drive, then removed it and put in one with twice the capacity. I had run out of room on the original HD. Also a memory upgrade. I had a vicious virus that hamstrung the 'puter, he nuked that before cloning the HD.

[Pb2au]

Win 8 sucks, there is nothing good about it.

Dragonrider at home on the weekend;
102400

:kidding:

[Tazman1602]

Hate, disgust, despise, nauseating. All such weak words when talking windows 8.

Try and find a new computer without it. I am seriously considering an Apple.

8 is not a computer operating system. It is a cell phone app. I have zero need and even less desire of cell phone apps. I think there are too many people that run Microsoft doing some really good drugs to think that crapolla is a good thing.

Rick

I agree TOTALLY with Rick. As a retired Network Engineer I've seen the computer world migrate from UNIX to Novell (Novell was a GREAT network OS...)...and then Winblows. The only issue is that when a company owns 95% of the desktop market you can love them or hate them but you'd BETTER learn to live with them. OK.

NT STUNK, period. Vista was a JOKE, But XP PRO and Windows 7 PRO were the OS's I always dreamed about. Stable, they worked, and no more BSOD's............(blue screens of death....)

NOW after 19 years of *basically* the same interface Microshaft wants to change the whole dam interface and force us to either pay more money for a shell program that mimicks the original start bar and program interface we've become used to and FORCE us to learn a whole new interface. They can take a flying **** at a rolling donut. I could NOT believe the first time I laid eyes on Windows 8!

Like Rick and some others here, when Windows 7 expires, I am REALLY having thoughts about moving to the Apple platform. I know I'll have to learn an entirely new OS to me but I'd have to with Winblows 8 anyway. That and the FACT that the Apple Architechture has always (from an Engineering standpoint....) been superior to Intels platform kind of seals the deal. Besides, Winblows 8 doesn't belong on a computer, it belongs on my APPLE Iphone!!!

I really think, besides young people who like bleeding edge tech, Windows 8 is going to bite Microshaft in the butt..............at least I hope so. MAN Microsoft makes me mad sometimes..............

Art

[DougGuy]

Win 8 sucks, there is nothing good about it.

Oh yes there is... It has an EXCELLENT audio engine, and with a really good 24bit 192KHz sound card, all your favorite music plays with pristine clarity! Love me some Pink Floyd and old Zep, and the 10 ZZ Top albums that Billy Gibbons himself remastered and remixed, oh yeah, XP can't hold a candle to it!

That said, man you ought to hear bluegrass on this system I got here, OMG.. It's like you are right in the same room with the instruments sometimes. I would suffer through win8's malcontent just to hear Merle sing "Blues, stay away from me.." like he was breathing down my neck.. It's THAT good..

[dragon813gt]

This thread cracks me up. Only 5-10% of the population knows how to use apps? 100% of children know how to use them. And most of the adult population does as well.

There is plenty to like about Win8. You need a touchscreen to fully utilize it in Metro mode. An extension such as Classic Shell or Start8 will give you the same familiar windows feel. I love Win8 and think it's their best offering since XP. Don't get me started on the Vista bomb and Win7 memory hog.

I don't think it's ideal for desktops. But for a touchscreen laptop it's pretty much perfect. I use it, Lenovo Ultrabook, primarily in desktop mode w/ a mouse. But for those times where you only need to use it for a minute or two the touchscreen is perfect. And you can actually have it boot up, use it, and shut it down in about two minutes. Mine takes about 10 seconds to boot up. Once I found the extension to make it look familiar I started to really like it. And now that I have Chrome fully configured the way I want it I'm even happier.

Anyone that says they want to switch to Mac I wish them well. I like being to able to modify my machine anyway I see fit. Not the way Apple tells me I have to. If all you do is use your computer and don't like to tinker then Mac should work well for you.

[Dale in Louisiana]

Anyone that says they want to switch to Mac I wish them well. I like being to able to modify my machine anyway I see fit. Not the way Apple tells me I have to. If all you do is use your computer and don't like to tinker then Mac should work well for you.

Oh, yes, the 'open box' argument. I had it with my son.

I may not be the most computer-literate dude around, but I do have some cred, seeing as how I and a couple of buddies had a business in 1988 building custom DOS boxes. I started with computers before that. I've had both Macs and Windows machines over the years, starting with the original Mac 128 and DOS and then Windows.

Back to the 'open box' statement: If the box has everything you'll need then there's no reason to open it. Or go outside it.

dale in Louisiana
(Who just swapped a HD out for an SSD on the little Windows box that runs my 3-D printer. And I'm writing this on a MacBook Pro Retina, and has a couple of Linux machines somewhere around here.)

[dragon813gt]

It's not nearly as bad for their computers as it is for iPhones/iPads. Use a stock one and then use one that is jailbroken and has some tweaks installed on it. Pretty much all of the good features that Apple has worked into their iOS updates have come from the jailbreak community. There are to many to list as its extensive and gets down into trivial things. But they all add up into a better end user experience.

For most people working w/in what Apple says you can do is perfectly fine and they won't notice a thing. After all you don't know what you're missing if you've never had it. But this is veering off topic from Win8. Once you learn to use it, which doesn't take long, you will most likely end up liking it. I know not everyone will but it's worth the time.

[shaper]

I went to the computer store yesterday. Our old computer had been giving us problems. Then the wife wanted to get on Facebook without it freezing up. Our pc in the house will get Win 7 installed and memory maxed out, then it will go into my shop. For the house he will build a new one with Win 11 which will run facebook with no problems and I can get some rest. All for $400. Deal.

[oldred]

I asked about the classic shell, she said it wouldn't work well on the Toshiba laptop. Something about the drivers are set up for windows 8.1, it wouldn't work well with anything else.


That's pure 100% USDA certified BS!!!! Of course she would be biased and would not have anything good to say about Classic Shell, I can guarantee it will work just fine because it's just an overlay that does not mess with your drivers or change any other function of the Win 8 system except for appearance in spite of what she would have you believe! Classic Shell is NOT a different operating system, you still have Win 8 and all of it's functions and drivers or anything else set up for Win 8 will still work exactly the same as before because it's still Win 8 but it just looks and acts more familiar. Windows supporters will always have something negative to say, they are trying their best to force this goofy operating system on us and will dismiss anything that changes it. It makes your Win 8 mimic XP or Win 7 in appearance but other than that it does NOT change anything else about your present operating system and those who are trying to push that dud 8 system hate the fact that it does what it does- and that is it just works!

[dragonrider]

Pb2au, Almost.......don't have a Garand. :lol:
Douguy, Not an audiophile but I do like ZZ Top.

When it come to this computer stuff I am just a dinosaur. My last machine was running Vista and I like it, it died and I could not find another machine with it. I believe I will install 7 on this machine as I have a copy of it here somewhere, Actually I will ask my son in law to do it as I have no clue and he works for Microsoft.

[williamwaco]

Well. I upgraded my Windows 8.1 to the 8.1 updated version because they promised to return the Start Menu.

They didn't.

In my opinion there is not one single change that I would consider an improvement.

[dragon813gt]

The start menu addition was a rumor. And it was reported that it wasn't going to be added. The improvements were done to the metro screen for the most part. But if you don't have a touchscreen it now starts in desktop mode instead of metro.

Change really does seem to bother a lot of people regardless of age. This is just one more thing I will never understand.

[Cmm_3940]

I sorta feel sorry for the Microsoft software engineers who built Win 8. By all reports, they did an exemplary job of modernizing the Windows operating system, and then some committee of marketing morons made them cover it all up with an idiotic excuse for a user interface.

[Cmm_3940]

FYI..

Go to Google, type 'why does windows' in the search bar, and see what the autocomplete suggestions are.. :lol:

[ShooterAZ]

The start menu is just not the same and never will be! You can access the start menu at the very right hand top or bottom corner, and scroll to it, easy peasy. If you want your desktop to look like XP, go to the bottom left, click the windows looking icon, and the tile menu appears. Click the very lower left tile called desktop, and now your screen looks and acts just like the old XP. Go to the top left corner and it will show all your open apps. Left click to open, right click to close. Once you learn the ins & outs, Windows 8 is so easy it isn't funny. It's just different is all, and takes a little getting used to. I absolutely love it. I'm running Chrome and also set it up to my liking. My new computer has a 2 TB drive and it is smoking fast. I couldn't be happier. There is a good tutorial in the tiles menu, spend a little time there if need be. This system is so simple I didn't even need to.

[MtGun44]

I love the advantages of hidden menus, making them invisible and slide in from some side, corner
or edge - depending on where you are, and making them different at different screens is a really
helpful touch, too.

Change of a human interface for the "he** of it" is total BS. How about I decide that making the
steering wheel turn clockwise for right turns and counterclockwise for left turns is "not intuitive"
and make cars with it the other way? How many would think this is a reasonable 'upgrade'?

When people learn to operate complex equipment, there needs to be some consistency from version to version
and incremental changes - especially when offering ACTUAL NEW FUNCTIONALITY are normal and
expected. Totally changing the way that an existing function is controlled just because you want
to be different is unwelcome and unnecessary. If I object to that lunacy for it's own sake, not for an improvement,
then I am accused of being a dinosaur. Well, hogwash - I have been using computers since 1968 to
do the highest level of engineering computation, design work and simulation on everything from
pre-PC computers to the latest 2048 CPU Cray supercomputers. I have written a good bit of
software and used dozens of high end, complex engineering graphics, solid modeling and
design and simulation tools for 40 years on a daily basis. I have seen other companies do this total
redesign of their user interface, and it has cost a huge loss in productivity while experienced
users have to retrain - FOR NO BENEFIT in most cases. I count the Win8 debacle as one
of these. In most cases, it is done because some manager is new to the field and wants
to put their own vision of "intuitive" on the product - to heck with thousands or millions of
users familiar with the current UI, the cost of the loss of productivity doesn't come out of
their budgets, so they don't care.

Another great example is the massive changes to the user interface done for Office 2010 version.
Near zero changes in actual functionality, but all the ways you get to it are fundamentally
different. So, people that have used this software for decades are now suddenly massively
less productive as they hack around trying to find out where some punk fool at Microsoft
hid that functionality. This is not "better" it is just different, and that is not, in itself, useful.

Human interfaces need to be evolutionary not revolutionary and the jerks that
make them that don't understand that are just that - jerks. Microsoft has mostly made reasonably
good products over the years, and followed the evolutionary user interface concept until
the 2010 Office roll out, followed by Win 8. I hope the idiot that mandated the revolution in
UI rather than evolution has been fired.

And it is also wonderful to have to put in all your personal info into the system to do simple stuff, so it
can HELP YOU. I'm sorry, it is not necessary for the system to know my name to do most of those
things, and I assume some nefarious marketing reason for them to want my name and e-mail
attached to everything I do in MY computer. What are they going to do with that info? I don't
trust them.

Rant off.

Bill

[ShooterAZ]

Nice rant Bill. I agree it sucks to be forced to change the way we do things, especially when functionality doesn't make any sense. I would still be running my trusty XP if Microsoft didn't force me to upgrade. I didn't want to run the risk to keep using it. It is what it is. Sorry for your disdain for it.

[williamwaco]

I am old and I don't like change either.
Windows XP was the best Human Interface ever.

That said, I can live with change just fine if it is an improvement.

I even accepted Windows 7 gracefully.

Everything about the Windows 8 interface makes it harder to use than Window 7.
By harder to use, I mean more steps required to perform the same task.

There are a lot of changes in the 8.1 update.
The ONLY one I have found that is an improvement is the return of the close box in the top right of the dialogs.

I MUST disclose that changes to the Start and Apps screens are invisible to me because I NEVER see those screens.

[dragon813gt]

I love the advantages of hidden menus, making them invisible and slide in from some side, corner
or edge - depending on where you are, and making them different at different screens is a really
helpful touch, too.


This is extremely annoying and only really useful w/ a touchscreen. W/ a mouse that stupid screen comes up anytime you drift the mouse to the right. Having to go through three menus to find the "shut down" key is tedious. They really screwed up w/ the way they changed everything. And this overshadows how stable and fast Win8 really is.

Microsoft is not alone w/ "revolutionary" changes. Apple did it w/ iOS7. They changed the swipe to delete direction for some unknown reason. And like Microsoft Office they changed the way most things work w/ the latest edition of Final Cut Pro. From a business standpoint these changes kill the bottom line. From a personal standpoint these changes are an inconvenience at most. Imagine if the Internet was being used as heavily as it is now when XP was released. That was a massive change from the previous versions of Windows. The bloggers and reviews would be just as damming as they are about Win8.

As far as the age thing. You don't see the young have the same type of hate for change as older people. They will complain, figure it out and move on. Now when the young get old.....well they will act like old people :laugh:

[oldred]

Young or old the bottom line is that Win 8 is vastly more despised than accepted! It has hurt Microsoft and although the PC was losing popularity already it's a known fact that Win 8 has greatly harmed sales of desktop PCs, by any measure Win 8 has been a major flop with acceptance only now slowly taking hold. Microsoft is determined to force this change regardless of the resistance, I agree that Win 8 is the best FUNCTIONING system so far from Microsoft but it's the worst from a user friendly standpoint and the massive complaints from so many bears that out. I started to wipe my hard drive and install Win 7 after becoming frustrated with Win 8 but then a buddy of mine put me onto the Classic Shell over-lay I have been talking about and that took care of the problem nicely, it made Win 8 everything Microsoft should have made it. All the speed and other advantages of Win 8 are there but with the ease of use and familiar appearance I was used to. The system is STILL Win 8 and it works like Win 8, drivers or nothing else is changed, the only change is the easier navigation.

[ShooterAZ]

The current trend is leaning more towards laptops and tablets it would seem. I think this is the MAJOR reason Win 8 was designed the way it is. For laptops & tablets it does make sense, for desktops not so much. Either way, I have had mine for less than a week, and have mastered it because I had to.

[MtGun44]

I was setting up Win8 for two relatives, and had been using Win7 (nearly identical UI to XP) for over a year
at work, with near zero retraining required. After fighting W8 for a few days setting it up for my FIL and sister,
I went out and bought three new PCs so I would never have to use W8, as I had three computers that
would need replacing within the year anyway. *** UI is despicable, and I will not force myself to learn it.

I use W7 and it is just fine, stable and runs well on two laptops and a desktop, and
I have not had to learn any silly new ways to make MY tool do what I want it to do -- except the stupid
Word 2010 UI, what a total waste of time.

A good analogy would be changing the QWERTY keyboard - after many decades of touch typing,
learning a different keyboard layout would be absolutely unacceptable for me. Of course, for
somebody young that types with two fingers, no big deal. Frankly, the more skilled you have
become in using a UI efficiently, the worse the changes affect you. If you have to guess at one
UI, guessing at a different one is no big deal.

Bill

[roadie]

In most cases, it is done because some manager is new to the field and wants
to put their own vision of "intuitive" on the product - to heck with thousands or millions of
users familiar with the current UI, the cost of the loss of productivity doesn't come out of
their budgets, so they don't care.


In Microsoft's case, they don't care because the vast majority of people will continue to use their product because, for those people, it's easier than trying something else.....it's all they've known as a operating system.

If you are being forced too learn a new system anyway, why not just go to Linux and learn it? It's far easier than most people think and far more stable.....and it's free.

What's not to love?

[oldred]

In Microsoft's case, they don't care because the vast majority of people will continue to use their product because, for those people, it's easier than trying something else.....it's all they've known as a operating system.

If you are being forced too learn a new system anyway, why not just go to Linux and learn it? It's far easier than most people think and far more stable.....and it's free.

What's not to love?


What's not to love indeed! Linux was bit confusing to me at first but at the insistence of my computer geek son I agreed let him install it on my desk top and I found the learning curve to be far less than the transition to Win 8. I still prefer Win 7 or even XP because Linux still has a few short-comings due to problems with compatibility with some programs but this been by far the exception rather than the rule and even that is being improved on rapidly. I will probably use Win 7 as long as it still works but I have no qualms at all about using Linux now and I would not hesitate to install and use it on a machine that came with Win 8, I would certainly do that before spending the money to "UPgrade Win 8 to Win 7! Still Win 8 with that Classic Shell over-lay is the answer for me, all the speed and other neat features of Win 8 but with the user friendly appearance and navigation of Win 8/XP, I know I keep harping on about Classic Shell but it's such a simple solution to the Win 8 problems.

[Dean D.]

In Microsoft's case, they don't care because the vast majority of people will continue to use their product because, for those people, it's easier than trying something else.....it's all they've known as a operating system.

If you are being forced too learn a new system anyway, why not just go to Linux and learn it? It's far easier than most people think and far more stable.....and it's free.

What's not to love?

That's what I'm going to do. I'm tired of being forced to change for the sake of change. If I have to learn a new OS it won't be an MS OS. They can take Win8 and shove it where the sun don't shine. Designed obsolescence is getting very old.

Bill pretty much summed up my view in his earlier post.

[pmer]

Is Win 7 out there still? Office Max said they had to ship their copies back.

[Cmm_3940]

Newegg.com has OEM win 7 pro for $140. I was just there yesterday shopping for parts.