LEE 6.5mm Cruise Missile.

[HABCAN]

My 'search' did not turn up anything, so I'll ask the gurus: Has anyone determined the minimum (maximum??) velocity required to stabilize this boolit out of a Swede ??

[Larry Gibson]

I pushed it from 1200 fps to 2500 fps and to answer your question; no.

I suggest another cast bullet of 130 - 140 gr preferably or 160 gr max.

Larry Gibson

[HABCAN]

Thanks Larry. I guess I'll just muddle on..............it seems to make a nice PP base for a 7mm, LOL!! That'll be another thread..............hehehe.

[geargnasher]

The original is reported to do quite well in the mid-teens by a few people using standard loading techniques. The Lee production version has been grossly oversized by all counts since the original group buy was cut. I have one of those and it yaws considerably even at 2700 fps (paper-patched .270). I don't believe that one CAN be stabilized. Take Larry's advice, or see how the Mihec group buy for a correctly sized one is doing.

Gear

[Baja_Traveler]

Well, the Mihec group buy is going on 2 years now with no word of progress since he had the cherry breakage troubles. To be honest I doubt we will ever see any cruise missile molds from him...

[geargnasher]

Probably so. No more BRP 268469s, either. We're in a hurt for a sub-.30-caliber mould maker that can, as one member so eloquently put it just this evening "read a mic". There are two up-and-comers to the mould scene, though, keep watch.

Gear

[JeffinNZ]

It's called "Wobbly Bottom Syndrome".

[HABCAN]

Well, today there is a breakthrough: I got it to stabilize.

First, you PP it all to ~.304+ with a 4" wrap of .004 copy paper and dry it. Then, you PP the base part to ~.320 and dry it again. Then you pass it up through a LEE push-through .314 size die, and then load it on 24 grs. IMR 4198 with a CCI 200 just to the base of the neck in a PMC .303 Brit case and fire it out of your Lee/Enfield. Ya know whut?? It flies straight. OTOH, maybe youse don't have as much time on your hands..............hehehe.

BTW, that LEE 7mm Soup Can PP's up for a neat load in a .32-20 Contender.......but that's another story.

[geargnasher]

I'm bestowing upon you, Sir, the Presidential Boolit Achievement Award for finding a way to get that thing to fly straight. I never would have thought to use that much paper, basically a paper sabot. Neat.

Gear

[45 2.1]

Oldfeller said the Cruise Missile in Ms Karlina was the PhD level of cast boolit knowledge. It seems he was right.... at least about that from what one reads here.

[AnthonyB]

I have two of the original Oldfeller Lee custom moulds NIB. Haven't done anything with them since the order, and doubt I will. Send me a PM if interested.
Kelly (not sure on spelling the name) came up with a great adhesive to remove the alignment slop from the Lee handles.
Tony

[geargnasher]

Oldfeller said the Cruise Missile in Ms Karlina was the PhD level of cast boolit knowledge. It seems he was right.... at least about that from what one reads here.

That's an apples-to-oranges comparison, most of us "here" are shooting the Midsouth abortion, not the original. The Midsouth mould I have throws a boolit whose CG is ahead of the CP by about 1/16". It would shoot better out of a smoothbore. Swaging down the nose and lopping off a drive band to correct this helped it quite a bit, reinforcing my original conclusion that it is a doomed design. The original, now that one has been proven to work IF things are done right.

Gear

[JeffinNZ]

Can anyone post a photo of a perfectly round bullet hole created by either the original CM or the Lee/Midway version?

[geargnasher]

Jeff, it's been done several times but I believe they are no longer on this site.

Gear

[45 2.1]

I have such a target made from the original GB mold made by me from someone else, but the picture is 1.2 Meg and my old antiquated excuse for a computer won't handle it to well.

[45 2.1]

That's an apples-to-oranges comparison, most of us "here" are shooting the Midsouth abortion, not the original. The Midsouth mould I have throws a boolit whose CG is ahead of the CP by about 1/16". It would shoot better out of a smoothbore. Swaging down the nose and lopping off a drive band to correct this helped it quite a bit, reinforcing my original conclusion that it is a doomed design. The original, now that one has been proven to work IF things are done right.

Gear

Comparison........... No, I'm using the correct projectile, not an out of spec copy of it (which I've mentioned quite a few times in reference to the MidSouth/Lee abortion). If MiHec solves the cherry problem, then maybe some will be available. You tell me what happens inside an engine when you use out of spec parts in it..... Hmmmmm?

[geargnasher]

I know it's not fun to attempt putting an engine together from parts of two mixed engines that are similar but not exact, with no torque specs, and get to the end only to discover that the compression ratio is way too high because the correct pistons weren't even in the pile and I didn't know how to determine that beforehand. Kinda what happened to me with the CM. I'm not sure if I would have learned more, or less if I'd had an original to start out with, but I did learn a lot from the "abortion".

Gear

[45 2.1]

Here is a picture as requested. This was shot with a Swede 96 with boolits cast out of an original cruise missile mold by me and shot by someone else. Those two loads were going over 2250 fps muzzle velocity and the distance shot was 100 yards as I recall.

[geargnasher]

No, that was shot with BABore's remake of the Kurtz boolit, according to the person that shot it and posted that pic.

The pics of the CM are gone.

Gear

[grouch]

I get good results from CBE's 265132 tapered mold with 21gr of WC845, very similar to the currently available WC735. Both pretty safely in the ball park with 3031 for loads in this range. Estimated velocity about 1900.
Grouch

[45 2.1]

No, that was shot with BABore's remake of the Kurtz boolit, according to the person that shot it and posted that pic. The pics of the CM are gone. Gear

Hmmm....... not according to them. Perhaps you could find that picture and confirm that. Meanwhile the following picture is one shot with the Kurtz (which will probably be reran with A.C.E. making it).

[jonk]

I have played around with it and HAVE gotten some to stabilize, in so far as they didn't seem to be yawing noticeably or keyholing; however, accuracy was still horrible.

I too am waiting MiHec's mold patiently... along with 2 others that are running on 2 years. I can't argue with the man's quality, he does fine work. But I know I'm never going to sign on to another group buy that he is making, if these ever show up. I personally think the time has come for him to either admit defeat and we cancel the buy, or he gets it done- and stop working on re-runs of buys that were placed in the last few months that get filled fast.

One can dream. I'm sure if we do get them they will be great. :)

[geargnasher]

Milk Jug Thread, post #503.

Gear

[45 2.1]

Milk Jug Thread, post #503.

Gear

I bet it took you some time to find that. There is a problem though..... the boolit holes don't match.... not the same target.......................... So, it's still a CM target.

[geargnasher]

Look closer.

Gear

[45 2.1]

I did. I noticed great similarity also, but some of the tears holes in the bottom group show tears when blown up that aren't there in the other one. I can't blow the Milk Jug photo up because I don't have the jpeg. Look at the 2nd down on the left in the N160 group, 7 o'clock position... tear and no tear between groups.... upper R22 group a little over a group width left... paper distortion not there on MJ group... paper tears on edges seem different... some holes appear slightly different too. Don't know actually. Hard to say when you don't have both hard copies to look at.

[geargnasher]

I'm pretty sure it's two different photos of the same target, but there's one more hole in the upper group connecting the dots so to speak, at least that's the way the light caught it in one of them. The background behind the holes is different, and the flaps behind the holes probably got changed a bit. That hand-drawn circle is exactly the same, so same sheet of paper in both pics was used unless a color copy was made of the blank that also showed the blue lines on the paper. No big deal, these facts get distorted enough without simple mistakes and I'm trying to keep it all straight in my head.

Gear

[HABCAN]

I'm going to cut the bums off some of these cast boolits...........the GC base, the next ring, and the next lube groove, and see what a shorter/lighter PB version will do in my Swede. If it works I'll get my machinist bud to mow the top off the mold. I've got jacketeds for high speed, alls I want is a boolit for >2000fps max. and probably ~1800. Comment, Gear??

[geargnasher]

That will work, sort of. The nose still won't fit correctly unless you swage it a bit, I used a .259" Lyman sizing die and honed it just a touch to match the taper of the throat. Got about the same as others, 1.5" or so for ten at a hundred using 2400 powder and 6.6x55 brass, but got round holes after correcting the boolit. Where I had my best results was around 2200 fps or a bit more using a lapped-out 266469 mould and the methods outlined in the Milk Jug Thread, the locked sticky in the military rifle section.

Gear

[HABCAN]

Thank you, Sir, your input is much appreciated!

[selmerfan]

So, as the CM saga goes, I was sorely tempted to get one for my 1-8" twist .260 Rem, but it looks like I should be perfectly satisfied with my NEI .264-130-GC with sub-MOA at 1800 fps?