Just Gettin' Started, help!

[Nise]

Getting started on a budget basics....

[wiljen]

WW are fine for handgun rounds. Many a fine bullet has been made out of them.

If you have access to a casting pot I'd take advantage of it for now.

So first you'll need a smelting setup as you really dont want all the dirt in your casting pot. I'd find a yardsale turkey fryer, coleman stove, or hotplate for a heat source. Of the three the hotplate is cheapest and the turkey fryer most effective (and expensive) so its all about time vs $. Then find a pot suitable for your heat source. For a coleman stove or hotplate I'd think about a 6-8 inch iron skillet. For a Turkey fryer I'd think about a cast iron dutch oven. Again, yard sales and flee markets are your friends. A hotplate and skillet can probably be had for <$10 with a bit of looking.

That handles the detail of melting the weights, a small steel sieve or a spoon can be used to scoop the clips out of your mix and pieces of old candles are a good flux for starters. (Think kids broken crayons).

Now you need molds. I'm gonna catch crap for saying this, but for the 9mm and 45 Acp, I'd buy the lee tumble lube round nose designs (TL356-124-2R and TL452-230-2R) and tumble lube them and load at as cast size. You can worry about other designs and lube-sizers later. Those two molds will get you started cheap and will usually shoot well in the 45 and 9.

In the 41, you may need to water drop your WW bullets to get them a little harder as pressures are usually greater than with the 45 and 9 loads. It has been too long since I played with a 41 for me to make a decent recommendation as to mold so I'm going to refrain and let others point you in the right direction.

Once you are started, save your money for the Lee 4-20 Pot. They are enough better than the 10 lbs pots to be well worth the difference in cost. You'll find a lot of your funds going to new molds and lube dies if you let them, but you can get by with a few molds and tumble lubing, a lot of us did just that when we started out.

Welcome to the crew,

Wiljen

[45nut]

Start in the "Classics & Stickies" area,, you have a ton of info in there . Welcome to CB. :castmine:

[Steve in TN]

The Lee tumble lube molds are definitely the cheapest way to get started. If you're casting straight WW, there's really no need to size. But if do decide to size your boolits, the Lee sizers are also inexpensive. They just screw into your press like a die and you push the boolit thru, lube, load and shoot. I believe most of the guys here that cast tumble lube boolits, use Lee Liquid Alox. For low velocity plinkin pistol boolits I lube with Rooster Jacket which you can get thru Midway.

[Buckshot]

...............Rendering the wild wheel weight into the domesticated ingot for further training into useable boolits is best done outside. The smell of hot dog pee, tobbaco juice, and flaming rubber valve stems tends to get the war dept riled up for some reason.

Once you have the ingots made, rendering them into boolits can be done in the house on the stove. However, this too can get a bit smokey so is really best done in the garage, patio, breezeway or suchlike areas. In any regard, you do NOT want to go directly from the WW to casting boolits in the same pot.

Immediately begin gathering all the lead you can lay hands on. It is impossible to have too much regardless what the wife, mother in law, neighbors or anyone else thinks. If YOU ever think you have enough you're delusional and just haven't thought it through completely. Lead is a commodity and is just like gold so far as a caster is concerned.

...............Buckshot

[454PB]

I'm a big fan of gas checks, but lately they have risen in price to where each checked .45 boolit I use costs 3 cents for the check. The .41 magnum will do what it was designed to do without a gas check, if everything else is right. If you're trying to reduce shooting costs, use gas check money on the rifle calibers.

[Steve in TN]

Nise, I don't believe Lee makes gas check tumble lube Pistol boolit molds. I may be wrong here, but if they do, I want a 44 gc mold

[Scrounger]

Steve, check out these custom tumble lube Ranch Dog Bullets. You can order them here: http://www.ranchdogmolds.com/ He has gas check tumble lube bullets in 265 and 300 grain weights.

[Bob Jones]

I've only recently started shooting a .41 and have been shooting water dropped wheel weights in full power loads, Lee tumble lubed, no leading at all, no gas checks involved.

BTW, if you're on a tight budget I have a spare Lee 2-hole .41 tumble lube mold you can borrow to try it and see if it works for you, just send me a PM.

You said you wanted to keep it simple, the Lee tumble lube molds, push-through sizers and tumble lube is the way to do it. It's a cheap way to get started, figured I'd give it a try before buying the fancier gear. 10's of 1000's of rounds later, still using them, seems to be working OK. BTW, the tumble lube will work on most any bullet, not just the special designs.

[Bob Jones]

I must admit I haven't been pushing them quite that fast I don't think, about 19 grains of 2400 or 11.5-12 of 800X which may be just a little faster.

Got the arthritis thing in both hands so have to keep the recoil somewhat reasonable these days, but according to the charts the 800x load should be about 1350-1400 fps.

I like the 2400, but had a chance to pick up a 12 pound keg of 800X dirt cheap and couldn't pass it up. Nice powder in that it's pretty "potent", slow burner but doesn't take many grains to get the boolit up to speed. 12 grains of 800X gets about the same velocity as 19-20 grains of 2400. A lot of people hate it because the powder flakes look like little saucers, they're huge. I've found the rifle insert in my Hornady powder measure works just fine but the pistol insert doesn't work worth a darn due to the size of the flakes.

[mroliver77]

For getting started I would get a cheapo Wally world hotplate or propane burner of some sort, a one quart heavy saucepan from yard sale or attic etc(althought I have used a metal 2lb coffee can with no problems),and a wider 1 galon pot of some sort for smelting(initial cleaning of WW). I cast for a few years with a ladle and think it a great way to learn. A Lyman ladle works just fine and is not too pricey. I also would go with the tumble lube bullet. You ought to be able to get started for $25 or less. Jay

[Buckshot]

I got some lead, but don't know if pure or not, not even sure what it was from, (found in trash pile:) It was sheet lead, approx 6' long 18" wide by about 1/16" thick. Pretty soft and easy to bend, but most would be that thick. I melted it down into ingots. Any way to tell purity? Also, if I need to add tin, where can I get some, or is it best to forego and just load down? Thanks again!

..............Who knows where it was from or what it was for initially? If it's easy to bend It's probably pure, or close to pure lead. Notwithstanding it's 1/16" thickness, an alloy like WW would bend a couple times and then fracture. If you can scratch an actual grouge into it with your thumbnail it's pure lead.

You're planning to shoot smokless so set that stuff aside. Mark the ingots so you can recognize them later. WW alloy is the best, cheapest, most widely available, and has a very broad range of applications for both pisto and rifle boolit making. It's kind of a standard baseline alloy. But ANY scrap lead has value, so get all you can glom onto.

So far as tin goes there is no 'Tin-Mart' or 'Tin is US' store to direct you to. Tin is where and how you find it. Midway offers it however, as pure. Your hardware store will have it in the form of lead free solder. You can check your Yellow Pages for metals dealers, but they probably won't want to waste thier time with a 1 or 5 lb order.

..................Buckshot

[Buckshot]

Just wondering if it's necessary to size? got tumble lube and mold ordered. trying to make sense of the lyman 450, but it's pretty neglected and don't have sizer for it. will check out push thru sizer. thanks again.

...............You don't have to size a cast lead slug, TL design or regular. Sizing is only a requirement to make a cast boolit fit. If the slug fits in it's "As Cast" condition why would you size it, and more to the point, what would you size it down to?

If the boolit is useable as cast, you just need a lube-size die a thousandth oversize so you're not sizing. You're only applying lube. For lots of pistol loads and some rifle loads Lee Liquid Alox (LA) will do the job. LA's claim to fame is that it is very simple and fast to do. Using a Lube/Sizer press is a one at a time proposition. With LA you can do a couple pounds at a time.

Getting a bit off your question, but TL'ing has one major fault. It coats the nose and this can or actually WILL cause it to build up in any die the round is run up into, ie: Seating, taper or roll crimping or the Lee Factory Crimp die. As it also coats the base of the boolit, a portion of the powder charge is going to be stuck to it.

In fact I just got down loading some 38 S&W ammo using the GB 146gr RNPB for use in a Iver Johnson top break revolver. The load was 1.8grs of Bullseye and it wouldn't surprize me if the entire charge was stuck to the boolit's base :-) If so, at least they'll be consistant, eh?

................Buckshot

[Leftoverdj]

Nise, if you are on a tight budget, stick to plain base bullets where you can. In revolvers, that should be up to 1000 fps sure, and 1200 fps maybe. If you absolutely have to have GC, go by the Group Buys forum and see about getting in on a buy from Gator. That's about the only place to get the right checks for .41 mag, anyway.

Lee Liquid Alox is a bit of a nuisance about building up in the seating die. My work around is just to keep a small screwdriver handy and clean out the nose punch after every box.

You don't need to own a turkey frier. You only need to be able to borrow one a time or two a year. Harbor Freight has a big dutch oven for under $15. You can clean up and alloy about 400 pounds of WW in a morning. That'll do me a year, maybe two, depending on what I am shooting and how often.

[454PB]

Sometimes alcohol is not strong enough to clean new moulds. I use Gun Scrubber or even brake cleaner on a new mould. Wrinkled boolits mean either a contaminated mould, contaminated alloy, or too little heat.

[454PB]

For 35 years I cast boolits without a lead thermometer. Back when I started, they weren't as available as they are now. I increased the alloy temperature until I got a light frosting of the boolit, and still do that today. Since I now have an RCBS thermometer, I know what the temperature is. Using WW alloy, nothing below 700 degrees or above 800 degrees. If I add some linotype or use straight linotype, I can lower the temperature.

[mroliver77]

Nise,
how far from the spout are you putting the mold? I keep most molds close enought to pour and have a sprue without interfering with spout. I keep a stack of siferent plates to use as spacers to lay molds on. Second, you want to open spout quickly and fully to fill mold as fast as possible and leave a decent sprue. With contaminated lead I would get a pretty nice looking boolit with mebbe an inclusion or a ratty pocked area with a touch of white dusty corrosion looking stuff.
J

[HORNET]

Nise,
OK, you got the mold clean. Did you dip the edge of the blocks in the alloy to preheat them? usually takes 45 sec or so. Did you try smoking the cavities with a butane lighter or match? This works better if the blocks are hot (prevents condensation on the blocks under the smoke). You might still have to go hotter on the melt temp. Some batches just don't flow well and need help. Please note that lots of people on here like to run things hot enough to look frosty and for the sprues to take a few seconds to set.
Sometimes you gotta play with them a while to figure out what it takes to make them work, even with RCBS or Lymans. A notebook to record results can save having to relearn what it wants if you haven't used a particular mold in a while.

[Cloudpeak]

I like bringing my molds up to temp by setting them on an electric, single burner bought at "ChinaMart" for around $13.00.

Cloudpeak

[Marlin Junky]

Cloudpeak,

How long have you lived in the Buffalo/Sheridan area?

MJ

[Cloudpeak]

Cloudpeak,

How long have you lived in the Buffalo/Sheridan area?

MJ

10 1/2 years. C.P.

[Marlin Junky]

CP,

I just bought 38 acres off Hwy 14 about 3 miles south-east of Sheridan. Any bad stuff I should know about the area before building my "retirement castle" :-D

PM me if you feel like it.

MJ

[MT Gianni]

Finally got some good boolits! Thanks all, started getn worried I had some polluted lead. Lubed some up and have em drying, alox. Think I need to get some brass now, loaded up all my spare awhile back. Just let the mold sit on top my lead pot for awhile, 3 or 4 minutes. getting excited about plinkin when it warms up.

Any reloaders in southwestern Mt?

I'm in Whitehall but work area is Dillon to Lewistown and Deer Lodge to Red Lodge. Gianni

[38 Super Auto]

I'd suggest starting with a large lead pot, e.g., a Lee Pro 4 20. Now I like the Lee pot, even tho Ima Dillon nazi [smilie=1:

When I started, I bought one Lee 6 cav mold, Lee 4 20, a Lyman 450 sizer, a .357 sizing die, and a top punch. I needed the ability to punch out a couple of 1000 boolits/month due to my pre-existing condition.

I smelted out my WW in the lead pot, ingoted out 40 -50 lb in a setting and I made good economical bullets out of the gate.

I think you can get some of this stuff used, maybe on ebay :-?

One big improvement for me is batch smelting a 100 or so pounds of lead at once using my old home brewing propane burner. Buckshot makes a good point about smelting. You can smell the funk that burns off the lead for a 1/4 mile or so and you do not want to breathe it in.

The batch smelting gives me ingot to ingot uniformity for bullet weight and hardness. It also takes the load off my lead pot.

It's OK to start cheap and upgrade as you perfect your trade. If you take care of your stuff, you'll be able to sell off your old to make space for upgrades.

[mroliver77]

Q? Can you allox rifle boolits? Instead of buying the lube press/sizer and accessories? I think a friend has a 30 cal 170 gr that I might be able to get from him, and lee has reasonable sizers. But I didn't see any micro lube groove moulds for rifles, not suggested? I really like the allox. Also trying to work up a plinker load for the 41 now. something safe but 800-1000fps. all the loads I found using unique, tite group, or 2400 still put em out pretty good, I'd like something to plink at cans and paper. I heard that underloading a cartridge can be as bad as overloading it, explained to me as being like bomb in ur gun???
Yes you can use alox on rifle booilts. Ranch Dog uses it exclusively on all his boolits. Lee makes a 155gr that has the tl grooves and from what I see reported it is a good boolit.
J

[Ron.D]

Excellent going. Looks like you're off to a great start. I'll only add to something Buckshot said about stocking up on lead alloys. They're almost all good to use to create you're own blends of alloys. Zinc WW's are out and so is battery lead. But finding and stocking up on lead can and should become an obsession. Laws will make it more difficult to come across in future. It's started to happen. Between Chinese stockpiling and bans on lead WW's (which has hit Europe and has started here) I don't consider a lifetime supply enough. Don't overlook garage sales as sources for solder. It's usually 1-2 lbs. at a time but can be had for a fraction of what it's worth new and usually from 50%-97% tin so a lb. goes a long way to sweeten your pot if you need better fillout. Here's hoping you get another snow day, followed by a nice Sat. Ron.D

[JSAND]

I can't get over the knowledge that is pooled on this site, it is just amazing. Every question that I have thought off has already been answered somewhere. As I get better at navigating and searching it is becoming easier to find this knowledge and this thread on molds confirmed several things I was assuming to be the case and opened my eyes to some aspects I hadn't even considered. Not smelting in the same pot you pour from. Can't wait to get home and get started. Thanks for the info.

[blackthorn]

I am in a bit of a rush this morning so pardon me if this has already been suggested.


If you want to melt WW, or any other dirty scrap, get an old 20lb propane tank (usually free), screw out the valve, fill the tank with water and cut a piece (3 or 4 inches) out of the top around the valve. Now that you have the danger of an explosion taken care of, drain the water, lay the tank on its side and cut it off as close to the top "shoulder" as possible. Set the "pot" up solidly and build your fire around it. This set up not only works with the wood fire; it gives you a free pot that can be used on your turkey fryer when you can afford one! This pot will hold WAY more lead than you can lift so be prepared to "dip" it out.

Another option is if you have a "tiger torch" or even a good "weed burner": take four building blocks and set them on the ground leaving an opening where the ends of the blocks meet. Place a cast (or steel) 45 degree pipe "elbow" in the opening. Place your pot full of scrap lead on the blocks over the top opening of the elbow, fire up your torch and lay it in the lower end of the elbow.

Hope this helps! Have a great day.

[RKJ]

I am in a bit of a rush this morning so pardon me if this has already been suggested.


If you want to melt WW, or any other dirty scrap, get an old 20lb propane tank (usually free),

Hope this helps! Have a great day.

That's what I did. I'm a sub at the local Tech school and the HVAC guys had a empty refrigerant tank they didn't want (it had been vacumed clean) I had the machine shop cut it midway Viola! It fits very nicely on my old coleman stove and works like charm.

[shootinxd]

:shoot: