How about. . . . this?

[Recluse]

I haven't logged on or visited here for a bit, and so I come on and read the "Gardening sub forum" thread.

My damn eyeballs nearly fell out of my head.

Oh, I'm sorry, I must've clicked on a different bookmark. (checking, checking, checking. . . nope, it says "castboolits.gunloads.com" so what the hell is going on?)

But after reading the justifications, I got to thinking. Hell, all this talk about self-reliance and how casting lead projectiles is synonymous with cooing to petunias started making sense.

So, how about this?

I propose the following subforums be added to Cast Boolits.

• Home Improvement subforum. After all, we're all self-reliant and what could be more self-reliant than a subforum on changing out your own toilet rings (which some new members here still think can be used as a consistent boolit lube) or fixing your own sink or putting in new windows.

I would also propose the following sub-subforums in the Home Improvement subforum:

-Painting, of which we could have sub-sub-subforums dedicated to the different kinds of paint brushes, sprayers, drop cloths, thinners, colors, textures, et al. Painting is asthetic and we all like our boolits to look good as well, so that makes it related to cast boolits.

-Plumbing, and of course what kind of sub-subforum on plumbing would be complete without the following sub-sub-subforms on soldering (had lead in it, so that makes it related to cast boolits), fluxing (same term we use in smelting), pipe-cutting, and of course when dealing with piping, we could then create a sub-sub-sub-subform dedicated strictly to PVC pipes with sub-sub-sub-sub-subforums on the various glues, cleaners, joints, cutters, etc.

-Electrical, which could then have its own sub-subforums on wiring, gauges, meters, test equipment, AC versus DC, etc. We use electricity to fire up our lead furnaces, so that makes it related to cast boolits.

And another subforum that might be interesting. . .

• Automotive. Automobiles use tires which need wheelweights which we need to make boolits, so that makes it related to cast boolits.

Of course, sooner rather than later, we'd need some sub-subforum to include Chevy, Ford, Chrysler and Imports. In the Imports sub-subforum, we'd need sub-sub-subforums for all the imports. We have Cast Boolits members who live in various countries where the imports are driven, so that would make it related to cast boolits.

• How about an Aviation subforum? I fly and so do some other members here, plus some of our stuff we get is transported by air, so that makes it related to cast boolits. We could have some sub-subforums on general aviation and commercial aviation. In the general aviation, we could make sub-sub-subforums on the different manufacturers, including the homebuilts, which would then need sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-subforums for the different specialized aspects of building your own airplane. Since we have a homemade thread somewhere in the midst of all our other sub-sub-subforums here, that would make it related to cast boolits.

• How about a TV subforum? We could make sub-subforums for the different shows and break them down into reality versus sitcom versus sports. The Sports sub-sub-subforum could have their own sub-sub-sub-subforums dedicated to each sport, with each sport sub-sub-sub-subforum having its own sub-sub-sub-sub-subforum for professional versus collegiate versus high school. Since so many members here admit to depriming and priming their brass while watching TV, then that makes it cast boolits related.

Hell, the possibilities are endless I tell you!

Or how about we remember that this is a forum dedicated to taking alloy, melting it down and turning it into projectiles that can be fired in guns and of which support for that includes reloading, molds, smelting, the various firearms that cast boolits can be utilized in. . .? Radical idea, I know.

Of if that offends anyone, how about we just change the name of the forum so that it can be everything to everyone all the time everywhere?

:coffee:

[Sweetpea]

Glad to see you're doing well, JD, and seem to be in fine form!:popcorn:

[starmac]

LOl Good to see you back, and hopefully fully recovered from the medical problems. I am curious though, would you prefer that the 15 or so forums and subforums that do not pertain to cast be dumped as well.

[waynem34]

Seems the Off Topic forum would be ok to ask off topic questions, after all they are off topic.Lol

[geargnasher]

Welcome back, JD!

Gear

[jcwit]

I thought much the same Recluse, just didn't put my thoughts to print. I'm already on thin ice I surmise with one of the MODS here with my conservative thoughts.

Once this gets started, where does it stop?

[fatnhappy]

Hey JD, welcome back.

Knowing some of the members here, why would a subforum specializing in horse****, bull**** or plain old everyday chicken**** surprise you?

Now if only we had a subforum for quilting! (http://www.aidsquilt.org/about/the-aids-memorial-quilt)

[Fishman]

Good to see you back in fine form Recluse. There is a new font color you ought to acquaint yourself with, it's purple :)

[snuffy]

Or how about we remember that this is a forum dedicated to taking alloy, melting it down and turning it into projectiles that can be fired in guns and of which support for that includes reloading, molds, smelting, the various firearms that cast boolits can be utilized in. . .? Radical idea, I know.

Then we should take down the swaging, powder coating, paper patching , rim fire and a few others that clutter this forum? I'm not interested in those, so I simply ignore them.

Either you don't grow a garden, or you know all you need to know about gardening? Do we gardeners offend you in some way?

It's long past keeping this a purely casting forum. I spend most of my internet time on here. If I can find a few things like fellow gardeners on this forum, then I'll spend ALL my time here.

My donation anniversary is coming up in a week. I may have to re-think my support if I keep seeing a few self-important people trying to brow beat the rest of us into getting a special forum denied.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

welcome back Recluse !

[ph4570]

Do not like it -- do not go there. Not too complicated.

[waynem34]

hallelujah I seen the purple because i thought hey lol

[Goatwhiskers]

JD, what's the status of book #2? I'm running short of decent reading material. GW

[cbrick]

The gardening forum is probably a good idea. After all I do go to the gardening forums for my boolit casting info, the photography forums are a wealth of knowledge for prescription drug side effects and who doesn't use the deep sea fishing sites for their NASCAR results?

Yep, a gardening forum is perfect and exactly what a boolit casting/firearms site can't do without. How else are gonna learn about the reproductive habits of the deep sea crustaceans?

The point here is really simple in case someone missed it. There is not a single member of this forum that doesn't have some other interest besides casting and firearms . . . Should we have a forum for every one of them? If not who are you going to leave out? I find Leafy seadragons fascinating, where's my forum? A gun site should certainly include that one.

Rick

[Sweetpea]

FWIW, I think the naysayers don't really have a problem with the occasional thread, but to have an entire subforum takes away from the site...

Is that the vibe I've been getting?

[freebullet]

I want my click back.

[pretzelxx]

You're leaving out helicopter aviation? That doesn't seem right! I like helicopters. I do, however, like the home improvement section suggestion. I live seeing other people's work!

[gkainz]

Sounds fair to me ... We discuss guns and shooting on occasion over on a general aviation board I hang out on ... :)

[btroj]

Couldn't agree more JD.

[waynem34]

what he said!

[Bzcraig]

Welcome back JD and I'm with ya.

[Springfield]

If we start a motorcycle forum then I insist we have a sidecar subforum! And then it will need sub-sub forum for right hand or left hand sidecars.

[375RUGER]

You uns forgot about a sub for the gamers to talk about their xbox.
.
I'm glad you're feeling OK.

[cbrick]

Sounds fair to me ... We discuss guns and shooting on occasion over on a general aviation board I hang out on ... :)

Lot's of things get talked about here, does that general aviation board have a dedicated guns and shooting forum?

Rick

[btroj]

I want a forum set up just like Facebook. It would make chatting so much easier.

Wait, I could actually use Facebook for that, couldn't I?

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

Unless we can talk about growing lead in our gardens, they have no place here.
I feel if a few of our members wanna talk about that stuff amongst themselves
we do have a chat feature here.
The occasional off topic thread is welcome IMO, sometimes it cant be avoided,
and can provide some comic relief once in a while.
But if I have to come here and sort through the daisies, carrots and brussel sprouts
to find casting info, I'll lose interest in a hurry.
This forum was built on a premise, it worked, and grew to what it is today.
Do you really wanna go backwards?

[Reg]

Do not like it -- do not go there. Not too complicated.

Would say it's a no brainer to me. Don't like it, don't go there. Couldn't be simpler.
Lets have a quick history lesson. Not that many years ago there was this dedicated single shot organization that was stuck in the 1890's. No problem with that other than the older members were dying off and few to none were taking their place. It was dying on the vine. A few newer members got together and decided to expand things a bit and like a flower getting it's first water it blossomed and really took off. The magazine went from a crude amateur looking thing to a glossy full color publication that started receiving national attention and little was lost on the way because not only did they have all the older information in the archives, because of the acceptance new information started pouring in, lots of it. There was talk of introducing new matches to expand interest in younger shooters but still staying along the lines of the early days and the response was positive. Good authors were attracted and the quality of writing in the magazine soared. Big name gunsmiths were attracted and their feature articles were printed and more knowledge was spread. All that had been was still there but now there was more , so much more.
Well, a small number of the older bunch decided for what ever reason that all this would never do and because of the way officer voting was set up there was a rebellion on their part and all of this was done away with. To make a long story short now things are about back like they were. Poor magazine with little in the way of interesting articles, all the interesting names and ideas are now gone. They wanted it just the way it was and so be it, it is but I notice they are back begging for articles and membership has slipped backwards.
Now these facts might not be exactly 100 percent correct but I think you can see the trend.
Live in a closet and you only see darkness.
No one could ever like casting more than I do. I am 67 and have been at it since I was 14. I not only have more molds than I can count I have learned to make them and am constantly adding to the inventory BUT
Even I need a bit of fresh air from time to time and doing anything outdoors will rest the eyes and senses and get me ready for another round. Gardening is a nice way to go and just like sharing some of the fantastic recipies that are on here from time to time, a gardening hint or idea can also be resting to the mind.
I donate every year and if we need a bit more band width I can kick things up a bit.
If you don't like it, block it out or just don't go there but remember, if you live in a small closet expect only darkness.

My .02 worth and I am sticking by it.

[cbrick]

Even I need a bit of fresh air from time to time and doing anything outdoors will rest the eyes and senses and get me ready for another round. Gardening is a nice way to go and just like sharing some of the fantastic recipies that are on here from time to time, a gardening hint or idea can also be resting to the mind.

Obviously many people agree, that is why there are gardening forums. When you go there why not ask them why they have no bullet casting forums, after all, bullet casting is resting to the mind.

It's plain, simple and obvious that it is a complete impossibility to make any forum all things to all people. An attempt to try would make it completely unrecognizable from it's original purpose and basically unusable. This site was founded on bullet casting and the firearms that shoot them, it has continued to this day to grow and prosper and as strange as it may be it has continued to grow without gardening forums, forums on endangered dugong's or the semi-aquatic hairless ape.

Right now there is a thread in "Our Town" on lawn mowers. Fine, lot's of things get discussed there, that's what it's for but does this discussion mean that we should now have a lawn mower forum? When I want to read about, learn or discuss casting or the firearms that shoot them I come here, when I want to learn how to plant my garden I find a site that has that info and I do not expect that site to teach me boolit casting. What I don't expect is for any site to cater to my completely unrelated whims

Rick.

[Recluse]

In no particular order. . .

• As much as I've tried and researched, I don't seem to recall the National Rifle Association--or any of their firearm-related publications ever hiring a gardening editor or an aviation editor or utilizing freelance reporters to write articles on home improvement, automobile purchasing, etc.

They remained--as they do today--a firearms and Second Amendment focused organization.

• So readership of the NRA publications is diminishing? Surprise. All readership of firearms-related publications (ink & paper) is diminishing. Readership of ALL ink & paper publications is diminishing.

It's called the Internet.

• Financial support and sponsorship works both ways. I have not renewed my Sponsor status because, quite frankly, I have concerns about the direction and tone the site seems to be taking. Yet, some new members who are recent to Cast Boolits are willingly jumping on board and signing up to be Contributors, Patrons and Sponsors because they LIKE the direction the site is heading.

• There used to be this really nice little community in the DFW area called Little Elm. It sat on the shores of Lake Lewisville and was considered "out in the country." Then during one of the economic hiccups when out-of-staters typically invade Texas because we have jobs and a livable economy, some of these big-city out-of-staters began buying property in Little Elm.

Well, before you knew it, they were ******** because there wasn't a Starbucks for them and a McDonalds for their kids. So a Starbucks came in, as did the golden arches. Then came a big grocery store, then a Walmart. Then the transplants started whining how traffic was bad and they needed bigger roads and more traffic lights. So in comes more concrete.

Then crime started happening and the transplants demanded a police department when previously the Denton County SO had handled things just fine when Little Elm was still "out in the country."

Now the transplants are putting their houses up for sale and leaving Little Elm because "it's gotten too big" and "too big" is what they fled in Chicago and Philadelphia and New York and the other crapholes they left when they came to Texas for a new and better life.

Now Little Elm is just another overpriced suburb of the north DFW area with cookie-cutter homes, a crime problem and skyrocketing taxes. Most of the original inhabitants have said to hell with it and moved away.

:coffee:

[Love Life]

Got to keep membership up somehow. Castingbullets is not rocket science, and once a caster learns that they can shoot gas checked designed bullets without gas checks, the subject of casting grows rather stagnant...unless you're on the level of Mr. Gibson, Felix, and 45 2.1.

Lead melts
Pour in cavity
Dropped bullet looks like cavity
Bullet sizes well
Bullet hit target
Done!!!

That's the thought process for many, as many wanted to start casting to save money and shoot more, and as soon as they achieve success...doneskis!!!

Really, what grand happening in the cast bullet world is occuring right now? We have coatings, the epic lube thread, high copper alloys, rpm threshold, building guns correctly, and.......same old same old that is covered in just about any manual...ever.

Now don't get me wrong and think I hate the site. I love it, but with such a stagnant subject (on the surface), the site can die if all remains the same. remains the same. Look at the number of members, and look at how many are signed on or do sign on during a month. I don't mean the same member signing on 40 times (no obamacare counting methods here), but I mean how many of the 20,000+ members actually continue to sign on a contribute after they have learned what they wanted or been told to read a manual?

[jcwit]

• So readership of the NRA publications is diminishing? Surprise. All readership of firearms-related publications (ink & paper) is diminishing. Readership of ALL ink & paper publications is diminishing.

It's called the Internet.


Correct, anyone notice how down sized the book & magazine departments have gotten over the last year at WalMart or any other big box store that carries the same?

[Col4570]

Now some who use this site only cast and shoot Bullets.they have no other interests outside that field therefore it must be boring to them when some of us go on about Gardening etc.so be a little sympathetic to them,one day we could all find our horizons narrowing.

[cbrick]

Now some who use this site only cast and shoot Bullets.they have no other interests outside that field therefore it must be boring to them when some of us go on about Gardening etc.so be a little sympathetic to them,one day we could all find our horizons narrowing.

Did you take a moment before posting that incredible nonsense to consider how totally ridiculous it is?

Rick

[Recluse]

Got to keep membership up somehow. Castingbullets is not rocket science, and once a caster learns that they can shoot gas checked designed bullets without gas checks, the subject of casting grows rather stagnant...

Now don't get me wrong and think I hate the site. I love it, but with such a stagnant subject (on the surface), the site can die if all remains the same.

Yep, and that's why I think it's a GOOD thing that the Marines started allowing their boys to wear dresses and to have a Marine Gay Pride week and to look at changing the headware to better facilitate the transgender Marines who can't decide if they want to be a he or a she during the next inspection.

Hell, I think the Corps should start mandating additional training such as "How To Apply Mascara During A Firefight While Cuddling With Your Marine In A Foxhole" and "101 Ways To File Sexual Harassment Against Your Ex-Lover For Getting Lipstick On Your Gun That Is For Fun."

I mean, after all, combat is pretty stagnant and we all know just about everything there is to know about it, never mind those pesky casualties. Gotta keep growing the Corps or it might just die, so rather than adhere to standards and tradition, let's just shoot it all to hell and say that anything goes.

I get it. :rolleyes:

Since when has Cast Boolits ever been about seeing how big we can grow? Why do we need to grow? We're not selling a product. We're not a for-profit site or entity. We're a consortium of experienced shooters and reloaders who prefer to create our own projectiles.

For that we need to have a zillion members?

Bigger is not always better. And we've already proven that in our case with the rapid expansion of the site.

:coffee:

[Love Life]

That comparison is far so off that it's really difficult to respond to.

[Trey45]

I really don't understand this. A bunch wanted the gardening section, a few didn't. If the new section bothers you, simply don't go there. Why make such a HUGE stinking deal out of it? The new section hasn't even been implemented yet, and it's not a definite addition. We've got a thriving membership here, a bunch of friends who get together to talk about their hobbies, their families and everything else. These same friends wanted a section for gardening, someplace where these same friends on this forum can communicate with each other without having to go to another forum. Why does this bother you so much? This is a community of members, the members requested this, it isn't something the staff just arbitrarily decided to force upon the forum. It seems to me, and to a lot of others to be a fairly simple solution. If you don't like the section, just don't go there. How hard is that?

[dragon813gt]

Since when has Cast Boolits ever been about seeing how big we can grow? Why do we need to grow? We're not selling a product. We're not a for-profit site or entity. We're a consortium of experienced shooters and reloaders who prefer to create our own projectiles.

For that we need to have a zillion members?

Bigger is not always better. And we've already proven that in our case with the rapid expansion of the site.

:coffee:

I finally get it. People like myself are not welcome here because you want everything to stay the same. I personally don't see a need for a gardening forum and voiced my opinion. But I can ignore the forum, like I do almost every one here, if I want to. If you're not growing you're dieing. And w/ the age that a lot of you are you need new members just to keep it at the same level. How can you waste so much energy on such a trivial thing.

[starmac]

I think it may take too much traffic out of the pit, I mean you can only get so many pieces out of a pie. Just look at how much traffic this thread and the one for gardening has already. lol I don't think too many people even go to the outdoors forum, so most will never even know it is there, unless they are interested enough to seek it out.

[cbrick]

If the new section bothers you, simply don't go there.

So your saying there is going to be a gardening forum as part of a bullet casting site??? Is that right?

Rick

[Pb2au]

This is clearly a Government ploy to get us to stop talking about powder shortages and Doe Run.

[Bullshop Junior]

I think the gardening sub forum is way off topic. If we have a gardening sub forum, why not start one for automotive? I see WAY more people talking cars and mechanic work here then gardening.

But I don't run the place.

But I do agree with recluse that bigger is not always better.

[lbaize3]

Recluse, I haven't been hanging out much in Cast Boolits of late, either. Sure have been missing your ability to stir things up in a thought provoking way. Can't do much gardening, but do like what comes from them. Have not spent much time studying the ins and outs of gardening, simply because it does not interest me. How to cast lead boolits and have them perform in an efficient manner that improves our accuracy and hunting skills does interest me. And that is the reason I come to this forum.

Boolit casting, IMHO, is an art form that never will be mastered. Some casters simply accept that the level of skill they have attained is all that is necessary for their purposes. I have been casting and shooting since about 1958 and have not yet reached the level of skill where I can say my skill level is sufficient for my purposes. And because I always learn something new when I come to Cast Boolits, I can not honestly say that I know everything and do not need to discuss the making, reloading, and shooting of cast boolits in various firearms.

Let those that want gardening have their topic. Those of us with no such interests can meet and exchange views in the topics of our choice.

Glad to have you back, Recluse.

[Love Life]

It's not about the forum being bigger. Why everybody is hung up on that I have no clue.

It's about what forum members asked for. However; at the end of the day it is the decision of the site owner so all anybody can really do is put in their $0.27 (2 cents adjusted for inflation). Will a gardening forum spell the end for the forum? No. Will the lack of a gardening forum spell the end of the forum? No.

I could understand if everybody had to run a 3 mile run in 18 minutes, blast out 20 pull ups, and knock out a hundred crunches before they could scroll past the offending sub-forum...but they don't. Scroll past it!!!

I scroll past so many threads and other subforums everyday and it is easy peasy.

In following the theme of this thread we can delete the following sub-forums:
Our town
Helping hands
Cooking
Swaging
The pit
S&S
Outdoorsmen
Test area
Rimfire
Airguns
Benefits/auctions
Pay it forward
Chapel

Sheesh. Hell, Daniel, if it weren't for an off topic forum (Our Town) you would have never gotten to Texas!!!!

Everybody just cool their jets for awhile. Nobody is forced to be here. Period. While I would hate to see the great minds leave because of something as trivial as a gardening Sub-forum, it is what it is.

[Bullshop Junior]

LL. Quite a few of the above sub topics are pretty off topic for a bullet forum. Rim fire for instance.

All I'm saying is why do we need special sub forums for such and such and such and such. Off topic was fine for all these things for years.

If we are gonna have sub forums for everyones hobbies beside bullet casting, we will end up with more sub forums about gardens and cars and painting and photographing and lawn care and yadda yadda that it will over welm the bullet forums.

That being said, i will shut up and leave this be. I really don't care how it goes one way or another I was just stating my 27¢.

[Pb2au]

^
As Love Life would say;
Gospel.

[ph4570]

Guess whose last 50 posts have only 8 remotely concerned with casting, guns, shooting etc. with the vast majority of the 50 in "Our Town".

[montana_charlie]

But I do agree with recluse that bigger is not always better.
How do we get new members now?

Some are brought over by current members, but a ton of them show up due to Google searches.
They read something and find it helpful, so they lurk for a while. If they feel like participating, they sign up and start posting.

If you put out meat you attract carnivores, and if you put out lettuce you attract rabbits.

People who Google for casting information wind up here. They are the members who share our 'bottom line' hobby.
If Google shows this site as a premier location for gardening, dress-making, and stained glass information, are we going to continue to have the 'industry' that this site currently exists to support?

How long will it be before the llama growers, worm farm experts, and beadwork types vote bullet casting off of the island?

CM

[starmac]

Somehow I just don't see a gardening section at cast boolits becoming a premier location for folks looking for info to grow pansies. We have a recipe forum, what percentage of chefs has joined up because of it???

I don't like joining sites, so wouldn't mind a gardening section here, we have threads going at any given time pertaining to gardening, preserving, farming in other forums, have we had an infestation of undesirables because of it, or any other of the unrelated forums. Can anyone recall even one member that has joined because we happen to have a fishing forum, rod making forum, recipe forum, etc???

[Red River Rick]

How do we get new members now?

Some are brought over by current members, but a ton of them show up due to Google searches.
They read something and find it helpful, so they lurk for a while. If they feel like participating, they sign up and start posting.

If you put out meat you attract carnivores, and if you put out lettuce you attract rabbits.

People who Google for casting information wind up here. They are the members who share our 'bottom line' hobby.
If Google shows this site as a premier location for gardening, dress-making, and stained glass information, are we going to continue to have the 'industry' that this site currently exists to support?

How long will it be before the llama growers, worm farm experts, and beadwork types vote bullet casting off of the island?

CM

That just about sums it up in a nut shell!

Just wait............this is just the begining. Wait till they add a Sub-Forum for "Cross Dressing".:veryconfu

RRR

[geargnasher]

It's not about the forum being bigger. Why everybody is hung up on that I have no clue.

It's about what forum members asked for. However; at the end of the day it is the decision of the site owner so all anybody can really do is put in their $0.27 (2 cents adjusted for inflation). Will a gardening forum spell the end for the forum? No. Will the lack of a gardening forum spell the end of the forum? No.

I could understand if everybody had to run a 3 mile run in 18 minutes, blast out 20 pull ups, and knock out a hundred crunches before they could scroll past the offending sub-forum...but they don't. Scroll past it!!!

I scroll past so many threads and other subforums everyday and it is easy peasy.

In following the theme of this thread we can delete the following sub-forums:
Our town
Helping hands
Cooking
Swaging Nope, that involves casting much of the time and is in the same spirit as paper jackets, powder coating, etc. the way I see it.
The pit
S&S Nope, we like to swap stuff boolit-related. It's a very beneficial part of the forum.
Outdoorsmen
Test area Every forum needs a test area for, well, learning the forum.
Rimfire Meh. I was big on adding that one even though I'm not much into it, seems appropriate somehow. Some fellows actually reload them and cast heeled boolits.
Airguns Two words: PELLET MOULD. We have a shotgun forum, why not airgun?
Benefits/auctions This is mostly for fundraising, which I could do without since we have eleventy-gillion animated banner ads now that should be paying the bills in spades.
Pay it forward
Chapel

Sheesh. Hell, Daniel, if it weren't for an off topic forum (Our Town) you would have never gotten to Texas!!!!

Everybody just cool their jets for awhile. Nobody is forced to be here. Period. While I would hate to see the great minds leave because of something as trivial as a gardening Sub-forum, it is what it is.

Soon this place will be like AR and and AR15, eighteen screens worth of sub-forums on every imaginable topic. Somewhere buried in there MIGHT be something you're interested in, IF you can find it.

I was opposed to all the gun-related stuff on this forum at first because of this thing called Gunloads dot com. Oh, and the reloading data site. How many members here even know our two sister sites, the ones Willy started before CB became a part of it, even exist?

This was supposed to be CAST BOOLITS, not the end-all gun-ish site on the 'net.

Guess I'm just cranky.

Gear

[Love Life]

This place will never be as bad as BARF.COM (AR15 forums) because of the people.

[btroj]

I hate gardening. Do I get a sub forum about hating yard work and gardening?

Gear, I don't find you cranky at all. I don't find JD cranky either. You guys are just no nonsense, say what you mean guys. I like that.

[ACrowe25]

Got to keep membership up somehow. Castingbullets is not rocket science, and once a caster learns that they can shoot gas checked designed bullets without gas checks, the subject of casting grows rather stagnant...unless you're on the level of Mr. Gibson, Felix, and 45 2.1.

Lead melts
Pour in cavity
Dropped bullet looks like cavity
Bullet sizes well
Bullet hit target
Done!!!

That's the thought process for many, as many wanted to start casting to save money and shoot more, and as soon as they achieve success...doneskis!!!

Really, what grand happening in the cast bullet world is occuring right now? We have coatings, the epic lube thread, high copper alloys, rpm threshold, building guns correctly, and.......same old same old that is covered in just about any manual...ever.

Now don't get me wrong and think I hate the site. I love it, but with such a stagnant subject (on the surface), the site can die if all remains the same. remains the same. Look at the number of members, and look at how many are signed on or do sign on during a month. I don't mean the same member signing on 40 times (no obamacare counting methods here), but I mean how many of the 20,000+ members actually continue to sign on a contribute after they have learned what they wanted or been told to read a manual?



Excellent reasoning here!!!

People (as in me) come because I was a noob (still am, as I'm always still learning) and quickly have questions answered due to stickies and fast posts. Why I stay? Mainly because like I said I'm still learning but things become interesting that I never even thought of. You can only talk about boolits for so long and there are some really good folks here that I don't mind chatting with--- about anything!

[smokeywolf]

Recluse,

This may be a bit off your thread topic, but I think that's the point of your thread anyway; gardening being off topic, relative to boolit casting.

Mighty good to have you back 'amongst' us. Your posts are always informative and insightful, frequently amusing and usually thought provoking. Until I read your OP I hadn't given the question of a gardening subforum much thought. Those who want it can have it, as long as I don't have to wade through it to glean casting information.

It would use server space. Space which would no longer be available to store casting, reloading, firearm and shooting/hunting information. Server/data storage space isn't free; someone must pay for that space. That makes the question seem a bit more needful of an answer.

With this in mind I'm inclined to urge a denial of dedicated server space to such a topic.

smokeywolf

[dragonrider]

JMHO but the pit is the worst thing that ever happened here. Can't say I've never posted in it but if I did I wish I hadn't. All it seems to attract is hot tempers. In the last few years we have members join who have, it seems, no interest in casting or reloading or even firearms in general. All they ever post in is political and religious forums or humor, forums we did well without in the past and could do so again. I do have a garden, don't need to talk about here, don't want to, although I could bore you to tears for hours on end about the rototiller I just acquired and am rebuilding for my Kubota. Gardening is another forum that doesn't belong here. Used to be that obscenities were not allowed here, obviously not true anymore we have a whole thread full of it. Used to be that foul language was not allowed even disguised or deliberately misspelled in order to get past the net nanny, not so anymore you can write whatever you like and it's ok. I enjoyed this forum much better when there was respect for each other and we talked and learned about Cast Boolits. That's also gone by the wayside.

LL wrote
" In following the theme of this thread we can delete the following sub-forums:
Our town
Helping hands
Cooking
Swaging
The pit
S&S
Outdoorsmen
Test area
Rimfire
Airguns
Benefits/auctions
Pay it forward
Chapel

You forgot political and religious.

Oh well just thought I would add my 02 cents.

[dragon813gt]

In what forums can you curse here? I think the mods do a good job when people occasionally try to get around the filters. I don't really agree w/ censoring words, because that's all they are, since we're all adults. But I have no issues playing by the rules that are laid out. If you want it so that you're never occasionally offended here then I don't see that ever happening. One only need to look at cast bullet topic like RPM Threshold to see how people can be offended by on topic posts :laugh:

[waynem34]

Off Topic.But any preferences on rolling papers.Just a tension breaker.J/K

[leeggen]

Just been doing some looking and most of the above op's have posted on these off topic sub forums. So for myself if I see one that doesn't interest me I just skipover it. I don't understand where some are coming from as to the sub forums, especially sense they post on them. Oh well guess it is time to go looking for more interesting posts.
CD

[Bullshop Junior]

In what forums can you curse here? I think the mods do a good job when people occasionally try to get around the filters. I don't really agree w/ censoring words, because that's all they are, since we're all adults. But I have no issues playing by the rules that are laid out. If you want it so that you're never occasionally offended here then I don't see that ever happening. One only need to look at cast bullet topic like RPM Threshold to see how people can be offended by on topic posts :laugh:

I don't know of any youngins on this forum nowa days, but it is supposed to be a family friendly forum. I joined when i was ten, and believe I may have to do with some of the cussing rules and what not.

[TXGunNut]

I hear and understand you, JD. I can't possibly keep up with all the forums here so gardening is one I'll skip, even though I have a garden most years. I like the cooking forum, as off-topic as it may seem, because the critters some of us shoot with out cast boolits deserve special attention in the kitchen or on the grille. I'll only mention j-words in passing and could care less about the pit and a few other areas but I know folks enjoy them. Someday I may need to drop by there and ask a question, I'd rather ask another member here than wander off to another forum and try to learn the ropes there.

[oneokie]

JMHO but the pit is the worst thing that ever happened here. Can't say I've never posted in it but if I did I wish I hadn't. All it seems to attract is hot tempers. In the last few years we have members join who have, it seems, no interest in casting or reloading or even firearms in general. All they ever post in is political and religious forums or humor, forums we did well without in the past and could do so again. I do have a garden, don't need to talk about here, don't want to, although I could bore you to tears for hours on end about the rototiller I just acquired and am rebuilding for my Kubota. Gardening is another forum that doesn't belong here. Used to be that obscenities were not allowed here, obviously not true anymore we have a whole thread full of it. Used to be that foul language was not allowed even disguised or deliberately misspelled in order to get past the net nanny, not so anymore you can write whatever you like and it's ok. I enjoyed this forum much better when there was respect for each other and we talked and learned about Cast Boolits. That's also gone by the wayside.

LL wrote
" In following the theme of this thread we can delete the following sub-forums:
Our town
Helping hands
Cooking
Swaging
The pit
S&S
Outdoorsmen
Test area
Rimfire
Airguns
Benefits/auctions
Pay it forward
Chapel

You forgot political and religious.

Oh well just thought I would add my 02 cents.

If you see a post with what you consider profanity, report it. We cannot look at every post on a daily basis.

[Col4570]

Did you take a moment before posting that incredible nonsense to consider how totally ridiculous it is?

Rick

Sure did,I thought long and hard and came up with a non abusive input in an attempt to defuse the histrionics surrounding this subject.Regards and have a nice day.

[jaystuw]

Well, recluse is back! And is leading a strong push against a sub-forum for gardeners!

On the surface the gardeners would appear to be a rather "soft" target. They seem to be a friendly, cool group of guys. What chance do they have against the wrath of a proven internet brawler like recluse? I would of thought none. But they have shown themselves to be resourceful, resilient and more clever than expected.

So far,as I see it, The gardeners (with the help of heavy hitter L.L.) have had an impact on recluse, he is drifting and no longer arguing effectively. It would seem that cbrick is still in the fight, but the plant guys are the odds on crowd favorite, and Have won the day!


So, whoever it is that runs the show.See for yourself. the plant growers are popular, tough and really want a spot. Why not give them a chance and see what happens? Jay

[Ajax]

This group has changed in the few short years I have been here. I am not sure for which direction yet.

Andy

[jcwit]

Ain't that the truth, Andy.

[montana_charlie]

... friendly, cool group of guys. What chance do they have against the wrath of a proven internet brawler like recluse? I would of thought none. But they ...
... would have thought ...

[smokeywolf]

Jaystuw,

This whole thread is an opinion piece. Your opinion was therefore welcome. Your slamming of the author of the thread was not only unwelcome, but unneeded, unwarranted and in reality renders the value of your opinion on the topic, unworthy of consideration.

If you wish other members to place any value at all on your opinions, you need to forgo the attempts at character assassination.

I apologize to the other members for this off-topic post.

smokeywolf

[dragon813gt]

If you wish other members to place any value at all on your opinions, you need to forgo the attempts at character assassination.


This is amsuing because it's what others have done to him because he has a minority, on this board, viewpoint. I took his post as a play by play tounge in cheek sarcastic view of this thread. Sarcasm is lost on almost everyone here. This is apparent because you need a font/color so people know when you're being sarcastic.

I also have to ask what the response would have been if a new memeber had taken the time to write a post like Recluse's? Most would have jumped down the new members throat and mods would have most likely locked the thread. Hypocrisy abounds around here.

[cbrick]

Jaystuw,

This whole thread is an opinion piece. Your opinion was therefore welcome. Your slamming of the author of the thread was not only unwelcome, but unneeded, unwarranted and in reality renders the value of your opinion on the topic, unworthy of consideration.

If you wish other members to place any value at all on your opinions, you need to forgo the attempts at character assassination.

I apologize to the other members for this off-topic post. smokeywolf

Ya gotta cut jay some slack Smokey, he comes by that quite naturally. It is the liberal way after all, when you have nothing to stand on just slander and belittle. ALL of his posts are the same.

Rick

[MBTcustom]

I have seen the discussions about the gardening forum, and have been hard pressed between a yawn and shrug.
That said, no, I do not believe it has a legitimate place on this board.
It's no skin off my back either way though.
If I were to throw my 2 cents on the issue, I would slide it over in the outdoors section with several other fringe topics.
The main site should remain pure to our purpose, and stay honed for that cut.

[Red River Rick]

..................The main site should remain pure to our purpose, and stay honed for that cut.


Finally, someone who knows the direction this site was intended from it's very beginning.

Thank-you Tim.

RRR

[cbrick]

I have seen the discussions about the gardening forum, and have been hard pressed between a yawn and shrug.
That said, no, I do not believe it has a legitimate place on this board.
It's no skin off my back either way though.
If I were to throw my 2 cents on the issue, I would slide it over in the outdoors section with several other fringe topics.
The main site should remain pure to our purpose, and stay honed for that cut.

Wow . . . Common sense. Yes, thank you very much.

Rick

[btroj]

Concur with Tim.

The more we have fringe areas the more we dilute the content and intent of the site.

[BruceB]

Concur with Tim.

The more we have fringe areas the more we dilute the content and intent of the site.

Agreed, 100%

[Dan Cash]

Agreed. +1.

[Ajax]

So why a cooking section? why a political section? Why a outdoors section? Lets get back to what it was meant to be then.

Andy

[Recluse]

So why a cooking section? why a political section? Why a outdoors section? Lets get back to what it was meant to be then.

Andy

Agree completely.

The cooking/recipes comes from the early days after Shooter.com when Cast Pics was gathering info and pictures and miscellaneous stuff and the membership was way smaller than it is now. Lot of members had favorite little recipes they swapped and if you check out Cast Pics, you'll find a lot of them there. Carpetman and Junior had a lot of unique, great ways of preparing various foods and a lot of others simply added their own recipes.

The politics section? I remember when it came around and there was about as much disagreement then as there is now over "gardening." 45Nut argued that in today's society, there mere fact of owning a gun was a political statement and that we, as gun-owners, veterans and patriots, shouldn't run from politics but rather stay informed.

The only other forum that has probably caused more consternation for the staff/moderators than The Pit has been Swapping & Selling, but for totally different reasons.

Gardening isn't the issue here. Hell, I grew up ranching where we grew our own food. I know the importance of being able to grow and put up your own food. It's the diluting of the core subject/mission of the site that has stirred emotions. You could just easily substitute Automotive or Aviation or Video Games or Travel with Gardening in terms of creating a new forum and get the same exact responses.

My prediction is that the next subforum that will be created--and see heavy traffic--will be a subforum on smelting and casting and sizing zinc boolits, or other "non-traditional alloyed" boolits.

And that, in my opinion, will be absolutely germane to Cast Boolits and what the site's purpose and intent has been from day-one.

Cast Boolits is a niche community site. Melting lead and making boolits and loading them for shooting in various firearms and all the related periphery that goes along with that is what Cast Boolits is about. Not gardening, not automotive, not politics, not video games, etc. Plenty of forums all around on those subjects and many more. Not too many sites dedicated solely to the art and science of casting lead projectiles and making them do things that even the respected gun writers of yesteryears gone by deemed not just improbable, but impossible.

We are the standard by which other sites on casting are measured by. Why would we want to dilute that?

:coffee:

[Roosters]

It already reads like a news paper Doe Run news, Alliant closed, life stories, swapping and selling,recipes. Heck even a obituary section.
Don’t think a gardening section going to do much damage. Just go past it like the first 3/4 page of stickies in every section. :popcorn:

Guess that’s what makes this site unique.

[geargnasher]

Fine with me. As long as Drake's International Nuclear Pepper War is going on I'm not sure the recipes here are to be trusted anyway :kidding:

Gear

[btroj]

So why a cooking section? why a political section? Why a outdoors section? Lets get back to what it was meant to be then.

Andy


Can't disagree at all. The Pit was created, I think, to get those discussions out of the other forum areas. Putting political stuff in a place where you can go or ignore made it cleaner across the other forums.

The other stuff I tend to ignore. Never look at recipes or the outdoor section. Heck, I forgot there was an outdoor section.

Brad

[btroj]

Fine with me. As long as Drake's International Nuclear Pepper War is going on I'm not sure the recipes here are to be trusted anyway :kidding:

Gear

Woah dude, the LUBE recipes are to be trusted. Now cooking stuff may be questionable but my lube recipes are 100 percent bonfide good stuff.

Apology accepted.:lol:

[geargnasher]

There's an outdoor section? I need to get out more.

Gear

[btroj]

Going to the outdoor section does NOT count as going outdoors.

[geargnasher]

I just made lube with some old crayons, gas treatment, and a tube of my wife's lipstick, will it be accurate at 3,000 fps?

Murphy just suggested a "rumor" forum, we need one of those for sure. Oh, and can we have a dedicated Troll forum?

Gear

[btroj]

I just made lube with some old crayons, gas treatment, and a tube of my wife's lipstick, will it be accurate at 3,000 fps?

Murphy just suggested a "rumor" forum, we need one of those for sure. Oh, and can we have a dedicated Troll forum?

Gear

A troll forum? Hmmmmm

That would be more lively than a discussion on RPMs.......

[geargnasher]

We'll be using trolls for propellant soon since all the powder is being sold to fill contracts for our vastly growing military.

Gear

[btroj]

Doesn't that being in the rumor forum?

[btroj]

Dang it, asking that makes me a troll. I will be exiled soon.

[dtknowles]

I would not check this site everyday if it only had casting related forums. The amount of new material on casting is thin and as far as helping answering other peoples questions about casting, rarely do I read a tread that someone else has not already helped with the needed answer. Forget looking for deals in S&S, someone is always there ahead of me.

The way I read this forum is to scan the list of threads with unread posts looking for interesting subjects or ones that I have posted to and then skip to the unread posts. You could add many new subforums without causing me a problem as far as how that would effect server space someone else would have to answer. Do I want a gardening subforum, no. Do I care, not much but like I said if the site was strictly about casting bullets I would not be here as often. I have read every post in this tread, just goes to show how few interesting new subjects come up.

Tim

[geargnasher]

The amount of new material on casting is thin...
Tim

Ever ponder why that is?

Gear

[btroj]

Lots of new guys. Older guys are reluctant to post for fear of being beaten up for sharing their findings. New discoveries take lots of time, work, and dedication to make. Not many are willing to go thru the effort to make a new discovery.

[dtknowles]

Lots of new guys. Older guys are reluctant to post for fear of being beaten up for sharing their findings. New discoveries take lots of time, work, and dedication to make. Not many are willing to go thru the effort to make a new discovery.

No, I don't think so, it is just the nature of the beast, not much new to be discovered and much of what is thought to be new is just rediscovered old news. I don't know if it is older guys or not but I see a lot of "gospel" being spread that is questionable. If I see something I think is wrong I will contradict once or even twice if the rebuttal has some merit but no point in wrestling with a pig.

Tim

[jaystuw]

Hi guys! I have been away from the thread for awhile and can see that time and events have passed me by. Now the only fun is watching the idea of a sub-forum getting tossed back and forth like its a joke . No fun for me. I liked the gardening forum idea and more importantly, I like the guys that wanted it.

I wish I'd gotten back in time to defend my position, but that ship has sailed. surfice to say that I have no interest in slandering or belittling anyone! Its a small town here, All of us already know what each other is like, nothing is much of a surprise. To me, saying someone is an internet brawler is a basic description. Heck, many of the guys participating in this thread, including me could also be called opinionated, colorful, difficult or whatever else works. I think saying that is character assassination is a streach.

I realize I am belaboring the point about slandering/belittling. But with reason. I am the only remaining admitted liberal on the site. The other known liberal, Jammersix, was banned several weeks ago. He pushed his luck. I have to watch how much I push mine. For me, everyday I am on cast bollits is a gift!

I also got some unexpected support, Thanks! Jay

[geargnasher]

Lots of new guys. Older guys are reluctant to post for fear of being beaten up for sharing their findings. New discoveries take lots of time, work, and dedication to make. Not many are willing to go thru the effort to make a new discovery.

That pretty much covers it.

Gear

[geargnasher]

No, I don't think so, it is just the nature of the beast, not much new to be discovered and much of what is thought to be new is just rediscovered old news. I don't know if it is older guys or not but I see a lot of "gospel" being spread that is questionable. If I see something I think is wrong I will contradict once or even twice if the rebuttal has some merit but no point in wrestling with a pig.

Tim

Not much new to be discovered? You have no idea what's being done behind the scenes, and is being re-invented painstakingly without the benefit of the sharing that used to be the spirit of this board, because wrestling with pigs is exhausting and filthy and many of the most knowledgeable members aren't willing to pay the price of being heard anymore.

Gear

[freebullet]

Nothing new? Don't we now have an entire sub forum dedicated to coatings? I've only been here a year and I see lot of new since my join date. I'm sure it will keep coming aswell. People are coating boolits with everything to find the sheet that could become a new standard. Heck there are folks testing all kinds of wacky stuff something dramatic could shine through. You never know the next 2moa 3500fps boolit coating could be a few tests away, my guess is it may be liberal blood and tears mixed with pvc pipe cement. Ok maybe not but...

Sure this board may be completely different than it once was, but I see good things happening even if they don't always work. In the spirit of Felix's final wishes for the board sharing and continual strives toward better shall hopefully never stop.

[Ajax]

Quote Originally Posted by btroj View Post
Lots of new guys. Older guys are reluctant to post for fear of being beaten up for sharing their findings. New discoveries take lots of time, work, and dedication to make. Not many are willing to go thru the effort to make a new discovery.Quote

I have been here long enough to know that is bullcrap yall would never let that pass.


Andy

[Ramar]

btroj "Lots of new guys. Older guys are reluctant to post for fear of being beaten up for sharing their findings. New discoveries take lots of time, work, and dedication to make. Not many are willing to go thru the effort to make a new discovery."

Is that what happened to Jim?
Ramar

[cbrick]

Lots of new guys. Older guys are reluctant to post for fear of being beaten up for sharing their findings. New discoveries take lots of time, work, and dedication to make. Not many are willing to go thru the effort to make a new discovery.

Never have called Brad out on anything before but . . . That pegged my BS meter. :coffeecom

Rick

[snuffy]

[QUOTE]
Cast Boolits is a niche community site. Melting lead and making boolits and loading them for shooting in various firearms and all the related periphery that goes along with that is what Cast Boolits is about. Not gardening, not automotive, not politics, not video games, etc. Plenty of forums all around on those subjects and many more. Not too many sites dedicated solely to the art and science of casting lead projectiles and making them do things that even the respected gun writers of yesteryears gone by deemed not just improbable, but impossible.

We are the standard by which other sites on casting are measured by. Why would we want to dilute that?[/QUOE]

JD, that was a very well reasoned post. I've officially changed my mind about a gardening forum, now I think it's fine if we do NOT have one. I entered tomatoville into a search, WOW there's some real fanatics over there, right down my alley!:grin: Now if the person that put that in his post had just put a link up for that site,,,--- well maybe that's why the idea for the gardening forum was thought up?

http://www.tomatoville.com/index.php

As far as the idea of a zinc casting forum, that sounds a lot like surrender to me. That was why my reaction to the original thread by the new caster Slvrbllt40 casting with zinc on purpose, was zinc is to be avoided like the plague, to cast with it on purpose is not a good idea. That would mean we knuckled under to the lead banners like obummer and the EPA.

I know very little about running a website as to requirements and bandwidth needed to support another forum, but I'm sure it's a concern. Heck, I barely know how to turn this magic box on to get to this forum!:lol: This old Dell won't take a new operating system, so it's XP was abandoned yesterday, it will be harder to get on pretty soon.

I'm going shopping for a laptop today, so I'll have to learn windows 8.

[geargnasher]

Brad is right. Want me to start naming names? Let's see...Ricochet. Floodgate. Carpetman. Bass Ackwards. DrB. Alberta Canuck (he may have passed, but left here long ago). Von Gruff. Glen.......

We don't see the "good stuff" being posted by BABore, 45 2.1, 35Remington, CharGar, or or a host of other past contributors, either. A real eye-opener is to do a member search based on join date and observe how many of the early members still visit regularly, like daily or at least weekly, but haven't posted anything in years.

Still think Brad's comment is off-base?

Gear

[geargnasher]

Never have called Brad out on anything before but . . . That pegged my BS meter. :coffeecom

Rick

I got one for you, Rick. Notice I haven't put up very many pictures of my targets and the work I've been doing lately? About two years ago I got serious with my Swedes and did some pretty amazing work with them. Then I progressed to some other calibers and figured out some tricks for them. Also had a lot of help behind the scenes on that, and invented a couple of unique processes for improving high-velocity accuracy with cast boolits that I haven't shared here. Now, about the targets. Last time I put one up, showing two, ten-shot groups at velocity above and beyond the norm, I got jumped on by you-know-who and one of his sidekicks, demanded to prove it in person, and basically spit on when I refused on principle. You think I'm going to make that mistake again? Nope. I'm not the only one. So, until that sort of thing stops, I'm not sharing HOW I did what I did and how any above-average handloader can do the same using the same methods because I don't need the stress. I absolutely hate this. I learned most of what I know from members here and have shared freely over the years, but when it gets esoteric there is just too much drama and too little fact to bother anymore.

Gear

[cbrick]

Yeah, you mentioned names that I haven't even thought of in some time. I guess I owe Brad an apology, my response wasn't well thought out. I do know what your saying though, when I joined I posted a lot of what I had learned from testing and studying the metals industry papers on non ferrous and was jumped all over but I stuck with it & then others started saying the same things. One small but perfect example is "fit is king", one member in particular kept that one as his own & there are many such examples over the past 9 years. Over time I too started posting much less of my testing so I guess I do see your point.

Ok Brad, I'm sorry! I should have given it some thought before I jumped on you.

Rick

[jaystuw]

Oh come on gear, That really is a stretch! You are covering almost decade. guys are going to come and go for anyone of a number of reasons. Maybe the site wasn't diversfied enough for them and they got bored, Who knows?

And of course it goes without saying, This is the internet. If you are going to post, you have to accept some degree of risk! Jay

[freebullet]

Gear
I understand what your saying, and its well put. Just know when it turns south some of us still value the additional time you spent to share here. Your write up on paper patching for 270 still gets me going. If we aren't going to share and continue to bounce our ideas around, what is the purpose of continuing on this board? I would say let the nay sayers nay say and don't givem the time of day.

[starmac]

So what is the fix to where experienced members will post their findings?? Which of the off topic forums (several) now caused some of the older members to leave.
I am only a member (maybe) of 3 other sites. I stayed off the internet completely for a year or so, and when I went back it wasn't the same. The sites just didn't hold my interest anymore, I only check one other site regularly (daily) and it is an outdoors site, and mention of this site in the handloading forum, is how I come across this one.

I don't garden anymore, Don't currently have a place to raise more than just a few plants, and a gardening forum probably wouldn't have much a far as gardening this far north anyway, but I would still read what others are doing, just like I do in some of the other subforums in the outdoors forum, but it really doesn't matter one way or the other.
No more traffic than there is in the outdoors forum, I think if the powers to be had just quietly stuck a gardening forum in it, it would have been months before a lot of the guys voicing their opinions against it even knew it was there. Has anybody actually joined this site because of one of the off topic forums we have, besides maybe the pit??

[cbrick]

Jay, got some questions if you don't mind.

Have you made a single post about casting, loading, shooting?
Do you cast, reload or shoot?
Do you own any firearms?

Or do you do nothing constructive, only stir the pot.

Time for some honesty Jay.

Rick

[theperfessor]

I have mixed feelings about adding new forums to this site. I can understand the folks with the point of view that this is, and should only be, a forum for bullet casting. After all, this site has gotten the reputation as THE place to find out about casting bullets. The wealth of knowledge of the membership is tremendous, the willingness to share that knowledge is unequaled, and the rules set up by Ken make for civil discourse in the search for truth; this is what attracted me to this site in the first place. There are very good arguments in favor of this focused approach and having a single topic forum.

On the other hand, there are some good points to having more breadth to a forum by having some off-topic subforums. Some of the discussions/posts that I enjoy the most are the ones where the poster reveals more about themselves than what bullet they were casting and what alloy they were casting with. Very, very few people only have one hobby or interest. I read many soulless, impersonal articles in a variety of technical journals. If this site was NOTHING but technical information I wouldn't be a very frequent visitor here.

You see, what I ultimately like about this site is the people who hang out here. The more I learn about a member through their posts, the better picture I get of the whole person. I know Recluse the caster enjoys bullet casting, but Recluse the man also likes airplanes and flying and many other things. I've learned to pay attention to Recluse when he talks about casting, and I've learned to trust his facts. If I had a question about flying I'm sure I could trust his answers to my questions. Many other members fall into the same category.

My main hobby is casting, reloading, and when I can get out, shooting. But I am more than that - I am a husband, a father, a machinist, an engineer, a teacher, ..... I don't mind sharing a little of the whole me in my posts in an attempt to be a real person to all my friends here.

There are many subforums that I NEVER check out, many that I check out infrequently, and a few I read every time I'm here. Having an additional forum on gardening would just be another area I would usually pass over. But if I did have a question about gardening it might be nice to know that the people I have learned to trust would be available to help me out.

I remember a while back when the forum was restructured; there was a lot of discussion, dooms day predicting, I don't want the forum to change type posts, but the forum DID change, people adapted, and we're still growing.

Maybe we could have an "Other Hobbies" subforum where we could put topics such as gardening, aviation, machining and welding, etc. The promoters of these subforums would have the responsibility of moderating them. No mods, no subforum. I personally don't think it would change the site that drastically. I can't imagine that a subforum on aviation in a bullet casting site is going to compete with or be as large as a site where aviation is the main theme or topic of interest. Of course it would use a little more bandwidth, but it may be that the additional topics raise enough interest and support to pay for this.

Ultimately, no matter how much discussion there is, I remember that I am a guest here. It is not my forum, and other people make the decisions here. I think we can live without a gardening subforum. I think we could live with a gardening subforum. I would hate to see any changes that would degrade the quality of this site and the people it attracts. I don't see this as causing that type of problem but I could always be wrong.

Any support for an informal poll? How about supporters from each side write a cogent one paragraph statement in support of their point of view and post it. Let the numbers help guide the decision makers. And then let's move on...

[geargnasher]

Oh come on gear, That really is a stretch! You are covering almost decade. guys are going to come and go for anyone of a number of reasons. Maybe the site wasn't diversfied enough for them and they got bored, Who knows?

And of course it goes without saying, This is the internet. If you are going to post, you have to accept some degree of risk! Jay

No, Jay, I don't just talk out my butt and expect people to believe it like a liberal media propagandist. There are many, MANY more names I could mention but I don't know the facts for sure about their leaving, I just put up the ones I DO know a little about.

Gear

[oneokie]

This forum;

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/gardening-plant-propagation/

on this site;

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/

There are several members here on CB that are also members on that site.

[geargnasher]

Bingo!

Gear

[MBTcustom]

Brad is right. Want me to start naming names? Let's see...Ricochet. Floodgate. Carpetman. Bass Ackwards. DrB. Alberta Canuck (he may have passed, but left here long ago). Von Gruff. Glen.......

We don't see the "good stuff" being posted by BABore, 45 2.1, 35Remington, CharGar, or or a host of other past contributors, either. A real eye-opener is to do a member search based on join date and observe how many of the early members still visit regularly, like daily or at least weekly, but haven't posted anything in years.

Still think Brad's comment is off-base?

Gear

Of course, some people not only instigate the drama, but will only share their information if you are willing to jump on their band wagon and help them keep the drama going. If you are not willing to buy their expertise (and expertise they very well may have) with complete loyalty to them, then they will not help you at all, and then they let you know how many others have taken them up on their offer because you will be shunned by them even though you never did anything to them.
So they refuse to post helpful information? We don't need that here anyway if it comes with a giant sack of steaming horse manure.

Anyone who truly loves the sport would never stoop so low, and deserve no place on your list up yonder.

To the rest who are secure in their information, and the science that backs it up, I suggest you take a page out of cbricks book.
opinions can be changed, but your information must be reinforced and redoubled again and again. Like water wearing away the rock, the message will get across eventually.

I have used the phrase "fit is king" many times and didn't know till just now who instigated that awesome phrase.
Tell me Rick, how many times did you have to say it till it started to sink in?

Don't give in to this BS. No one who ever poured a cast lead boolit, stuck it in their rifle, pulled the trigger and saw the effect, thought "gosh that was fun! I think I'll go get online and pick a fight over what my boolit just did".
The drama is an outright perversion of the reason we are all here and why we do what we do.

[slim1836]

I have not read all the posts, however, I agree that the function of this site is for cast boolits and related items.

That being said, we have branched off into may sub forums, some good, some not so good. I can pick and choose.

I just wonder (since I'm not computer savvy) how much the extra bandwidth to maintain this site costs? At this pace, are we pricing ourselves out of the original intent?

I strongly believe we have the best site and members on the w.w.w.

Slim

[jaystuw]

Jay, got some questions if you don't mind.

Have you made a single post about casting, loading, shooting?
Do you cast, reload or shoot?
Do you own any firearms?

Or do you do nothing constructive, only stir the pot.

Time for some honesty Jay.

Rick

Hi Rick! We have not touched base for sometime, how are you doing? I'm fine, been hiking, biking and enjoying some really excellent cali weather.

Well anyway rick, you have some questions and I have some answers. You have only to click on my profile page to see that I really am what you may think impossible, A liberal that loves guns! check my posts, There is no faking my inside Knowledge and interest. Have a Look at my pics, see my much used but still liked sedgley springfield and the others. That is only a tiny fraction of my collection.( need to post more pics!) And of course one can't have guns without molds,have more of those than I can count to.

I shoot, cast, reload and collect rick. But lets get down to the brass tacks, Does jay also stir the pot? Well, yes, no, maybe.(I know, typical liberal answer,I beat you to it)But it Really is subjective, it depends on who you ask. I would like to think I add a little much needed diversity to the cast boolit community. Some may like it, others want my head on a stick.

The threads we share are always popular rick, We would seem to have a certain chemistry. I believe you may even have something akin to mixed feelings if I miss step and manage to get my head lopped off here at cast bollits. Jay

[btroj]

Rick, you owe me nothing. I have enough respect for you to let it go. You weren't involved in some of the BS Gear mentioned so how would you know.

Rick, I don't want you, or others, to stop posting new info. I view guys like you as a resource. I have learned much from multiple sources here. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't but I still can respect the individual.

As for bandwagons, that is a huge factor. I don't do bandwagons very well. I may follow some but I don't jump on them often. I look at the lube quest. Gear, run and I all have different views on what works. We each make our own contributions and come up with different ideas. We don't beat each other up over it, we just look at the info put forth and decide if it is something we are interested in trying or not.

I think Bret was a big pusher of "fit is king". While it generally agree with the statement I have learned that fit is a fickle and changing thing.


If I could push anyone to do one thing here it is to view everything with open eyes. Don't decide right away that it is wrong because it counters your initial feelings. Read what is posted, think about it, and make a decision. You may not always agree but it often will alter the way you do or view things.

We also need to keep n mind that what people ask or say and what they mean aren't the same thing. Case in point- undersized Lyman moulds. Larry often says the moulds cast to spec. He is usually right. The problem is that spec and what is needed are two different things. I shoot .460 bullets in my 45-70 Marlin. My 457122 mould drops a nice .457 bullet but it doesn't shoot well in my rifle. While it isn't undersized by Lyman specs it is undersized for my rifle. When I say it casts undersized I am speaking from MY frame of reference, not Lyman's.

Brad

[btroj]

Jay, got some questions if you don't mind.

Have you made a single post about casting, loading, shooting?
Do you cast, reload or shoot?
Do you own any firearms?

Or do you do nothing constructive, only stir the pot.

Time for some honesty Jay.

Rick

Total troll. Sole proprietor of my ignore list. He took Frank's place of honor.

[Col4570]

When I joined this forum it did,nt occur to me that by posting on the off topic items it was away from the norm.Therefore hands up I confess to contributing to anything from cabin fever to gardening,all in what I thought was the spirit of the site.I might add that I also have enjoyed posting on the Shooting sections.The fact that some topics both amusing and informative are not related to Bullet casting are what I thought where part of a community of shooters with other interests as well.Apologies for straying from the path.

[btroj]

Col4570, it isn't an issue with the occasional off topic post, it is the idea of a forum dedicated to them. Mentioning your garden on occasion is fine, having that be the sole reason you are here is different.

The core reason this site exists is to discuss the pouring and shooting of the cast lead bullet. Straying too far from that leads us to a point where shooting lead bullets could become the off topic discussion!

[geargnasher]

Col4570, it isn't an issue with the occasional off topic post, it is the idea of a forum dedicated to them. Mentioning your garden on occasion is fine, having that be the sole reason you are here is different.

The core reason this site exists is to discuss the pouring and shooting of the cast lead bullet. Straying too far from that leads us to a point where shooting lead bullets could become the off topic discussion!

I absolutely agree with all of that.

Gear

[jaystuw]

[QUOTE=btroj;2728467]Total troll. Sole proprietor of my ignore list. He took Frank's place of honor.[/QUOTE


That's pretty rough.

Yeah, I am a liberal. And yes, I have participated in a number of politically charged threads that were heated and less than friendly at times.

That said, Nothing on my part was ever personal. Just politics. I like everybody here, well maybe some more than others. But I have no ill will towards anyone. I have no ignore list and anyone is welcome to check my profile, see my pics or PM me.

I would urge all to take note of btroj's warning. but above all, make your own judgement . Thanks jay

[cbrick]

I still want forums on the endangered dugong's and the semi-aquatic hairless ape. How can any firearms related site not have those? Just think what ya could learn. :coffeecom

I had a guy on my ignore list once but it didn't do me any good, complete waste of clicks putting him there. Wasn't long after he went and got himself banned and I didn't have anyone to ignore.

Jay, are you trying to say I would miss you if you got banned? Did I read that right? Hhmmm . . .

Rick

[btroj]

I seriously doubt you would ever notice Rick. I wouldn't. The server met notice a slight drop in usage but otherwise we would never notice.

[jaystuw]

I still want forums on the endangered dugong's and the semi-aquatic hairless ape. How can any firearms related site not have those? Just think what ya could learn. :coffeecom

I had a guy on my ignore list once but it didn't do me any good, complete waste of clicks putting him there. Wasn't long after he went and got himself banned and I didn't have anyone to ignore.

Jay, are you trying to say I would miss you if you got banned? Did I read that right? Hhmmm . . .

Rick

That's exactly what a meant Rick. it is a significant leap of faith on my part. Jay

[geargnasher]

Jay, why would we care about your political views outside of the Pit? I don't. But, I DO care that you keep trying to make out the fact that your political viewpoint is in the minority to be the reason many of us don't, or shouldn't, like you. That's really just a deflection and an attempt to martyr yourself. I don't like you not because your political views are diametrically opposed to my own, but because of your behavior here in general. You behave like an ordinary, pot-stirring troll who has little interest in making meaningful contributions to the main topic of the site (which, in case it was missed amongst all the hubbub, is about cast bullets). You wouldn't like me much either if I made it my mission to annoy you every way I possibly could. If you were a liberal in the true sense, you might be more interested in coexisting with all of your fellow men in this wonderful, blood-bought, free country rather than deliberately putting yourself in a hostile environment and doing your best to identify yourself as the enemy. See why the term "troll" applies? I use it with regard to you in the same sense that you applied "internet brawler" to Recluse.

Gear

[ShooterAZ]

Jay just loves to find a heated/controversial thread, and then "Poke the Bear". He gets his jollies this way.

[btroj]

A person who joins a site and never makes a post regarding the sites main topic but does stir things up can't be anything but a troll.

[dragon813gt]

A person who joins a site and never makes a post regarding the sites main topic but does stir things up can't be anything but a troll.

And that is the pure unadulterated truth.

[jaystuw]

Jay, why would we care about your political views outside of the Pit? I don't. But, I DO care that you keep trying to make out the fact that your political viewpoint is in the minority to be the reason many of us don't, or shouldn't, like you. That's really just a deflection and an attempt to martyr yourself. I don't like you not because your political views are diametrically opposed to my own, but because of your behavior here in general. You behave like an ordinary, pot-stirring troll who has little interest in making meaningful contributions to the main topic of the site (which, in case it was missed amongst all the hubbub, is about cast bullets). You wouldn't like me much either if I made it my mission to annoy you every way I possibly could. If you were a liberal in the true sense, you might be more interested in coexisting with all of your fellow men in this wonderful, blood-bought, free country rather than deliberately putting yourself in a hostile environment and doing your best to identify yourself as the enemy. See why the term "troll" applies? I use it with regard to you in the same sense that you applied "internet brawler" to Recluse.

Gear

the enemy, Gear ? A bold statement. Are we all not still americans. Is the political divide so much that I am the enemy of my fellow americans simply because I have a different vision of whats best for our country?

Does the word "troll" truly apply to my conduct on this thread gear?. I am going to make mistakes in my post, Its to be expected. But the flavor and charactor of what I say is mild and well intentioned. I would caution you to not let your dislike for me color what you see. I believe it blunts the thrust of your argument. Jay

[jaystuw]

Jay just loves to find a heated/controversial thread, and then "Poke the Bear". He gets his jollies this way.

poke the bear ShooterAZ? I am the bear! None of these political threads are ever jolly or fun. Try grueling and draining. Jay

[ShooterAZ]

Don't go away mad Jay, just go away.

[45 2.1]

We don't see the "good stuff" being posted by BABore, 45 2.1, 35Remington, CharGar, or or a host of other past contributors, either. Gear

I know BABore posts when he thinks he can help someone, I try to do the same..... but, somewhere along the way you learn that most people won't listen to what you say (or think it's BS) and some people simply can not be helped, by their own choice. That's fine by us too as any of the previous is by their own choice, but we try in our own way when we see a earnest need. Very little is new in these endeavors as most of these things have been tried by several generations and written about a lot, but seldom understood completely by following readers.


Of course, some people not only instigate the drama, but will only share their information if you are willing to jump on their band wagon and help them keep the drama going. If you are not willing to buy their expertise (and expertise they very well may have) with complete loyalty to them, then they will not help you at all, and then they let you know how many others have taken them up on their offer because you will be shunned by them even though you never did anything to them.
So they refuse to post helpful information? We don't need that here anyway if it comes with a giant sack of steaming horse manure.

Tim would be referring to me here I believe. What was offered isn't what he has written, but that is a matter of conjecture and comprehension. As a matter of fact, ALL the information offered has been on various posts on the various iterations of this and the previous versions of this forum at least five times (whether or not it is still available with the current limits is something I don't know). Putting it all together in a sequential form on the forum has not been though. That is what was offered and is much like what has been given to other forum members here (that took some time and effort on their parts also). Nobody here should have to act like your parents to make you learn something, you have to want that yourself and you have to do the work and trials involved to learn....... So, it is out there in the archives if you want to learn it IF you need to or want to. The recourse to not reading is a mentor or basic trial and error. It's all your choice in that matter. Simply giving you a load does little for you for most accuracy comes from what you do and the way you put together your ammunition.

[cbrick]

the enemy, Gear ? A bold statement. Are we all not still americans. Is the political divide so much that I am the enemy of my fellow americans simply because I have a different vision of whats best for our country? Jay

Enemy is exactly right! Period! You might live here but are you an American? The very "New Democrat", "Liberal", "progressive", "Socialist" (take your pick, they all mean exactly the same thing) philosophy is 100% anti-American. The core values of that philosophy has NOTHING do with what's best FOR America, it a complete opposite of what America is and what countless of our best have shed blood to protect. It is the destruction of America.

And you freely admit to being liberal, do you even know what it means to be an American? Yep. Enemy.

Rick

[btroj]

45 2.1, I only speak for myself but I am at a point in casting where I would like to know more about what it takes to cast a better bullet, load them up right, and make small groups. I have learned much in the past few years and have rethought what I ought I knew about fit of a cast bullet in a rifle throat.

I would love to see more informative posts about what it takes to shoot well with cast bullets.

[geargnasher]

Apparently Jay, your reading comprehension isn't too great, either, if THAT is what you got out of my last post.

Gear

[btroj]

Enemy is exactly right! Period! You might live here but are you an American? The very "New Democrat", "Liberal", "progressive", "Socialist" (take your pick, they all mean exactly the same thing) philosophy is 100% anti-American. The core values of that philosophy has NOTHING do with what's best FOR America, it a complete opposite of what America is and what countless of our best have shed blood to protect. It is the destruction of America.

And you freely admit to being liberal, do you even know what it means to be an American? Yep. Enemy.

Rick

Precisely.

[Outpost75]

Where is the Alien Abductee subforum? Is that where the democrat druggies hang out?

There is a Mother Ship a mile wide hovering over my cabin now trying to suck up all my empty brass and beer cans. What load should I use yo make it stop!

[jaystuw]

Don't go away mad Jay, just go away.

Sorry shooterAZ Getting mad really isn't my thing. Its about being completely calm and heads up .

Go away? Been here since 2005, That question answers itself Jay

[45 2.1]

45 2.1, I only speak for myself but I am at a point in casting where I would like to know more about what it takes to cast a better bullet, load them up right, and make small groups. I have learned much in the past few years and have rethought what I ought I knew about fit of a cast bullet in a rifle throat.

I would love to see more informative posts about what it takes to shoot well with cast bullets.

I tried to do that with Tim..... as an interactive sticky detailing questions and answers where it wouldn't be buried in the vast area called the archives.... but was refused. Just how could it be up for everyone to use without some interaction from the PTB here?

[btroj]

Sorry, don't have an answer for that one.

We all lose out when people don't feel free to share info publicly. Damn

[geargnasher]

45 2.1, my point that you addressed above was exactly that due to those who make noise with no light and those who muddy the water by bringing their disbelief and agendas to discredit to the forefront rather than a genuine interest are grinding the public side of productive experiments to a halt. I know you try to help when you can, but you and I both know we couldn't start a really good thread assimilating the process of developing accurate, HV loads for a given rifle into one, easy-to-follow read without the usual obstacles. That's why it hasn't been done. That's why you won't do it without a locked sticky at your disposal, and I don't blame you one bit. The reasons why the documentation of such a journey from start to finish won't work without a noise-free environment has been my point about the loss of knowledgeable input from individuals like yourself all along.

Or, could it be done publicly? I have a blank slate sitting in a vise in my gun room, and Brad is about to have a similar one in his hands. I've wanted to go through this process from scratch, on this forum, for a very long time. Brad is in a position to learn how to do this. There is so much that I don't understand yet, either, and need to go back to square one with a mentor myself to check my bases before I can get much further. A couple of well-built rifles should shorten the learning curve quite a bit, perhaps too much, I don't know. Would you be willing to give this mentoring thing one more, solid go?

Gear

[btroj]

My mind is wide open. Gear and Run have explained much of what they know and it has changed how I view so much of shooting cast.
Making good ammo with jacketed I know about, shooting Highpower taught me that. Now to translate that info to cast is another hint entirely.

Once I get my new rifle I will be in a much better place to learn. Having a rifle that is well made eliminates so many problems and makes it so much easier to see how each small change impacts the group.

Maybe it is time to take the forum back and make it into a place where a free sharing of info is possible. Maybe we all need to stand up and shout down the naysayers, those with nothing valuable to add to the discussion.

Brad

[45 2.1]

Sorry, don't have an answer for that one.

We all lose out when people don't feel free to share info publicly. Damn

I offered and was refused, so you'll have to ask the PTB here why they didn't want that to happen, because I don't know and they haven't said.


45 2.1, my point that you addressed above was exactly that due to those who make noise with no light and those who muddy the water by bringing their disbelief and agendas to discredit to the forefront rather than a genuine interest are grinding the public side of productive experiments to a halt. No joke at all about that... I know you try to help when you can, but you and I both know we couldn't start a really good thread assimilating the process of developing accurate, HV loads for a given rifle into one, easy-to-follow read without the usual obstacles. A lot of people here know that... That's why it hasn't been done. That's why you won't do it without a locked sticky at your disposal, and I don't blame you one bit. Yes, you are quite correct. A locked sticky where several agreed on people could ask questions of myself and get some answers would be fine... The reasons why the documentation of such a journey from start to finish won't work without a noise-free environment has been my point about the loss of knowledgeable input from individuals like yourself all along.

Or, could it be done publicly? It should only be done publicly, on the site in a sticky, but those in control here don't seem to want it to happen. I have a blank slate sitting in a vise in my gun room, and Brad is about to have a similar one in his hands. I've wanted to go through this process from scratch, on this forum, for a very long time. Brad is in a position to learn how to do this. There is so much that I don't understand yet, either, and need to go back to square one with a mentor myself to check my bases before I can get much further. A couple of well-built rifles should shorten the learning curve quite a bit, perhaps too much, I don't know. It would be dependent on just what throating is put in those rifles and some other variables probably not entertained... Would you be willing to give this mentoring thing one more, solid go? On a sticky as outlined with very limited participants, sure..... participants would be geargnasher, btroj and me along with anybody else we all agree on...

Gear

[geargnasher]

EDIT. Sorry guys, I'm about two posts behind all these tonight so they're a little out of context. Gotta type faster.



What I was going to say after post 135 was:

If there was a way to shut down the naysayers FIRST, just on one little thread, it could be done. Then there wouldn't need to be any naysaying about it ever again, because the whole thing would be in PRINT.

Gear

[btroj]

Naysayers be damned, I wanna know. I want the info so I can go learn at the casting, loading, and shooting benches. Having someone tell me where to look and what to look for helps in the learning process.

I'm not a spoon feed me kinda guy. Give me some ideas on what I should pay attention to and I will take it from there, makes observations, and ask questions.

Keeping the naysayers at bay is the key. Gear and I have discussed ways of doing this before. Sadly, I'm not interested in setting up my own site!

Brad

[geargnasher]

45 2.1, thank you. Let's see what can be done then since you're still willing.

You're going to hate these throats, I'm afraid, but we did the best we knew how at the time.

Gear

[dragonrider]

Anyone who joined this forum after 2010-2011 has no idea what this forum use to be like, I was without doubt the only place to go for information on cast boolits, lubing said boolits. Everyone was helpful and went way above and beyond to try to help a newbie. For instance I bought my Star lubesizer years before I signed up here. I could not get that thing to put lube where it belonged, I tried again and again for at least a year and failed. So it languished under my bench for years after. Finally after reading from so many that it could be done and all the helpful hints to get it done I decided to attack it once again. I didn't get it done in a day or week, it took months, but I got it to function as it should, and since then I have got it to work even better than it should. All due the people here on this forum discussing Star lubesizers and the problems they had and how they corrected them. Things like that don't happen like they used to. You are more likely to be told you don't know what you are doing and should find another hobby than get an answer. JD's post was needed and nailed exactly what is going on here now. I have read more posts that are telling newbies they are going to die if they continue what they are doing. Now I don't doubt that some need to be told that, but not many. We were all newbies once and rejections like that could have sent us of this hobby all together and never known the joys that cast boolits can do for a person.

People don't find this forum by looking for underwater basketweaving. They are looking for two things, reloading and CASTING of lead boolits, this is was they are asking questions about. Why do I get my boolits look like the shirt I wore for six days. Why do they not fillout. Anyone who joined this forum after 2010-2011 has no idea what this forum use to be like, I was without doubt the only place to go for information on cast boolits, lubing said boolits. Everyone was helpful and went way above and beyond to try to help a newbie. For instance I bought my Star lubesizer years before I signed up here. I could not get that thing to put lube where it belonged, I tried again and again for at least a year and failed. So it languished under my bench for years after. Finally after reading from so many that it could be done and all the helpful hints to get it done I decided to attack it once again. I didn't get it done in a day or week, it took months, but I got it to function as it should, and since then I have got it to work even better than it should. All due the people here on this forum discussing Star lubesizers and the problems they had and how they corrected them. Things like that don't happen like they used to. You are more likely to be told you don't know what you are doing and should find another hobby than get an answer. JD's post was needed and nailed exactly what is going on here now. We don't need extraneous forums . I have read more posts that are telling newbies they are going to die if they continue what they are doing. Now I don't doubt that some need to be told that, but not many. We were all newbies once and rejections like that could have sent us of this hobby all together and never known the joys that cast boolits can do for a person.

People don't find this forum by looking for underwater basketweaving. They are looking for two things, reloading and CASTING of lead boolits, this is was they are asking questions about. Why do I get my boolits look like the shirt I wore for six days. Why do they not fillout. Why is my lube green? why is it red? Do I want green or red.

[45 2.1]

Naysayers be damned, I wanna know. I want the info so I can go learn at the casting, loading, and shooting benches. Having someone tell me where to look and what to look for helps in the learning process.

I'm not a spoon feed me kinda guy. Give me some ideas on what I should pay attention to and I will take it from there, makes observations, and ask questions.

Keeping the naysayers at bay is the key. Gear and I have discussed ways of doing this before. Sadly, I'm not interested in setting up my own site!

Brad

No magic projectiles or methods, just a lot of inter-related things dependent on one another besides ones ability to make a good boolit. You need to learn in sequence (for everybody else's sake) so no one gets lost and where YOU don't miss what you need (can you say you haven't missed something OR what that may be). This would be for everyone, not just you.

[MBTcustom]

I offered and was refused, so you'll have to ask the PTB here why they didn't want that to happen, because I don't know and they haven't said.

I tried. That was the first thing you asked for in return for your knowledge. I asked and was turned down, but was told that we could do it on a website piggybacked off of cast boolits. That was unacceptable to you. You required what I could not give.
And yes, I'm a little sore about it.

[btroj]

The devil is in the details, that I am sure.

Making a bullet that can go into an inch at 100 isn't that tough, getting down to z1/2 inch is another this entirely.

What Gear and I want to do is find out what it takes and see if we are worthy of it. Having a bullet and load that can shoot well day in and day out makes the lube quest much easier.

I really need to refine my casting technique, I know that. I need to think quality, not quantity. I also ned to work on being better about documenting everything I do and change. If it isn't written down then it is soon forgotten and may as well never have happened.

[45 2.1]

Piggy backed is not here..... for everyone to see..... permanently, as a sticky, where it won't go away..... in real time as it happens..... without disruptions from other individuals. And Yes, your being sore is quite evident.

[jaystuw]

Enemy is exactly right! Period! You might live here but are you an American? The very "New Democrat", "Liberal", "progressive", "Socialist" (take your pick, they all mean exactly the same thing) philosophy is 100% anti-American. The core values of that philosophy has NOTHING do with what's best FOR America, it a complete opposite of what America is and what countless of our best have shed blood to protect. It is the destruction of America.

And you freely admit to being liberal, do you even know what it means to be an American? Yep. Enemy.

Rick

Oh rick. Do you really want to consider over half of the people in the country your enemy. Not good. Life is all to short for that. I could feel exactly the same way you do. But I don't. I like you. And that rick, is the power and advantage I have and my party has. I don't look on the right as a threat, so Its really hard to consider you an enemy. Jay

[geargnasher]

Piggy backed is not here..... for everyone to see..... permanently, as a sticky, where it won't go away..... in real time as it happens..... without disruptions from other individuals.

There it is.

Ok, staff, we're asking again. At least I am. You can do whatever with a gardening forum, but THIS needs to happen for a LOT of reasons.

Gear

[45 2.1]

45 2.1, thank you. Let's see what can be done then since you're still willing.

You're going to hate these throats, I'm afraid, but we did the best we knew how at the time.

Gear

Your assumption is probably correct, but do you have a boolit that fits that throat correctly......... that is probably a no answer. Part of the learning process is learning what you got and how to fit it.

[btroj]

There it is.

Ok, staff, we're asking again. At least I am. You can do whatever with a gardening forum, but THIS needs to happen for a LOT of reasons.

Gear

Concur. I am willing to put myself out there for the world to see. I will be the guinea pig but I need to know I won't be ridiculed. I want serious input only. This is a way for me to learn by doing and getting input from 45 2.1.

Is it possible staff? Please?

Brad

[geargnasher]

Your assumption is probably correct, but do you have a boolit that fits that throat correctly......... that is probably a no answer. Part of the learning process is learning what you got and how to fit it.

Fitting the throat is one of those areas like you mentioned where I can't say I haven't missed the boat. All I can do is read and interpret what to do, attempt to do it, and go shooting. Change something and go again. If the next guess doesn't work, then there are the questions....What to change? What do I really KNOW is right, and how many things are working together against the goal? But there needs to be suggestions, if I could have figured all this out on my own I would have by now.

If I hadn't found this site I'd still be shooting 2" groups at a hundred at 1700 fps in my 336. I'm a long way ahead of that, but a long way from done, but like many others I suspect, have sort of reached my self-teaching potential.

Brad, shooting half-inch or even smaller groups is actually pretty straightforward and easy. Doing so at high velocity is where it all goes to pieces if you don't understand what you're doing. But I think we both need to start over at square ONE so we don't have any pre-conceived notions.

Gear

[btroj]

I AM at square one pretty much.
What I need now is the syllabus so I know what to expect in this course. I hope the prof is fair and speaks English.

Oh, 45 2.1, I am a pharmacist, not an engineer. I have a basic understanding of physics but please keep it watered down a bit for me. I hate to have my sophomore ME student daughter explain stuff to me.

[MBTcustom]

So let me get this straight. You don't want to go to another forum, nor start your own forum, nor participate in a side saddle website.
Let me think, why is that?
Oh, it must be because you need all these pesky interrupters to have to watch you do your thing in triumphant glory! That makes perfect sense!
Unfortunately, you aren't willing to give anything in return.
You managed to tick off the only moderator that you had in your corner, and make enemies of all the people that could have made it happen.
In all the internet, you have to do this here. Why? Because the very people that you so desperately hate are the very people that you need to see it. You want to rub their noses in it.

Sorry, that's never going to happen. Not unless you buy the forum.

This thread has taken a nose dive, and is now closed.