New rifle loads showing barrel deposits, not sure what it is....

[LuckySavage]

Just started loading for a couple Savage 99's in .303 Savage and .30-30. Using the boolit below with 45/45/10 soft lube. Boolit weighs 189 gr. w/ gas check and lube.
Wanted to try some Leverevolution powder with heavier boolits, so I read up on Larry Gibson's posts. Haven't seen any data for 190 gr. cast, so I worked up, trying to get to 2000 fps, +/-. Ended up at 32 gr., which gave roughly 2150 fps. with no pressure signs or issues. Wasn't too worried about accuracy, I intend to tweak the load, most likely downward to around 1900 fps.
Long story longer, after about 25 rds. thru each rifle, they both had a dull light grey coating evenly deposited within the barrel, lands AND grooves. Looks like someone took a can of grey primer and sprayed the inside of the barrel. A bronze brush after soaking with Hoppe's will hardly touch it. I guess I've been lucky so far, and never had anything that I could call leading, even in my .357 M92 Rossi at 1975 fps., with pure lead and 2% tin.
Here's some other pertinent data- by my 56 yr. old eye, both rifles have excellent, sharp rifling. Haven't slugged the bores yet, first time I've shot them. The boolit mics out at .3105 - .311 after sizing and sitting a couple weeks. Cast with range lead, 50% pure, 2% tin. Hardness estimated at 10-12 BHN. Don't have a tester. Pics. below.
This is the .30-30, it looks kinda short because I had to seat the boolit a little deeper than I originally intended because of the short chamber in the Savage. Hence the stout crimp on the smaller dia. nose.
Can someone offer ideas to eliminate what I assume is leading?

101548

101549

[Ben]

a dull light grey coating evenly deposited within the barrel, lands AND grooves

Sounds like you've got leading going on at 2,150 fps.

Makes we wonder if .001 larger diameter bullet and some conventional lube filling the lube grooves ( other than 45/45/10 ) might change things.

[RickinTN]

What Ben said plus....Who knows what "range lead" is. When I think of range lead I think pretty soft, and when cut with 50% pure I think even softer. My guess would be that your alloy is something less than 12 BHN, maybe considerably less, but I could be all wet here. Maybe leave the 50% pure out and give it a try, or add something to increase hardness instead? I would be curious as to what you find.
Good luck,
Rick

[tomme boy]

It might also just be antimony wash. Is it actually building up somewhere or does it just look grey?

[btroj]

A different lube could help. Some lubes seem more prone to leaving a wash like that than others.

[LuckySavage]

It might also just be antimony wash. Is it actually building up somewhere or does it just look grey?

Just light grey, like grey primer, just like you fogged a coat of paint on the inside of the barrel. Harder than heck to get out. Is there a good solvent for lead? Maybe I should slow the bullet some?
l'll slug the barrel today, maybe it's just too big. Or maybe I'll just shoot jacketed in rifles.

[Larry Gibson]

I see 2 potential problems.

Eliminate the 1st problem by switching lubes. Try a good NRA 50/50 formula or Lar's 2500+. Both are available from Lars. No need to empty the lubrasizer if that's what you're using. Easy enough to just size and GC 25 bullets and then hand lube them for the test. Clean barrel, same load and see if the "leading" is there after the 25 rounds with the new lube.

If the above didn't solve the problem then the problem is the alloy. As mentioned who knows what's in "range lead" unless you have it analyzed. Use a "known" alloy such as Lyman #2 or COWWs + 2% tin. Again; same load and your lube. With my range lead (3 different batches from 3 different ranges) I mix the RL with the lead at 75/25 and then add 2% tin to that. The AC'd BHN runs 11 - 12 on bullets and when WQ'd runs around 18 BHN. I use the AC'd bullet up through 1800 fps and WQ'd above that with that alloy. Thus an adjustment of your alloy "mix" may be needed.


If you get the same "leading" with this alloy and your lube then repeat the test with the commercial lube as the "leading" could easily be a combination of both. I see nothing else wrong with the sizing or loading that would cause the "leading". The cause will be the alloy, the lube or a combination of both.

BTW; the 32 gr loads are about where LeveRevolution begins to burn efficiently with 170 - 190 gr cast bullets in the 30-30. May do okay at 1900 fps with the 190 gr cast. Also wish to commend you on the excellent description of the problem in your post. Wish most problem questions provided the essential information as you have.

Larry Gibson

[grouch]

If it was mine, I'd try Comet or Dutch cleanser or equivalent on a damp rag to scrub it out. If that doesn't do it, JB Compound. Failing that, one of the common cures for leaded barrels(Chore boy, steel wool etc.)
Grouch

[runfiverun]

it's just antimonial wash.
it affects nothing and doesn't build up.

it's just like the zddp that USED to be in motor oil, it done the exact same thing in your engine only with zinc.

[montana_charlie]

1. ) One thing that causes leading is shooting an undersized bullet. You haven't slugged your barrel, so you don't know it's diameter.
2. ) Don't bother to slug the bore until you get all of the lead (or whatever it is) out.

I'll check in later to see how you do with de-leading.

CM

[LuckySavage]

Larry-

Thanks for weighing in on this. AND, thanks for posting your work with Leverevolution powder. I think it's going to end up being a very valuable tool in everyone's quest to squeeze out more speed with lower pressures.
That said, I tried to take a picture of my muzzle with the aforementioned...stuff. Is this what leading looks like? I ran a bore brush thru the .303, and after sitting one day with some Hoppes #9, it seemed to come out, but it took some elbow grease. I will change lubes first, and see if that helps, then slug bore.
Thanks to everyone that responded, good points all. Filed in the "I shoulda tried that first" folder.

I'm always open to suggestions- if anyone can identify this stuff in my barrel, I'm willing to do what it takes to eliminate it. Thanks again!
-

101598

[Pilgrim]

Looks like leading to me. 45-45-10 isn't intended for full velocity rifle loads as far as I know. Hoppe's #9 by itself doesn't touch leading either, again as far as I know. There are solvents out there that reportedly remove leading, but one of those plus bronze wool or equivalent wrapped around a bronze brush will do a good job for you. FWIW...Pilgrim

[uscra112]

Col. Harrison would tell you, assuming that's just a thin wash of lead, to fire 2 or 3 full-powder jacketed loads. That will eliminate the lead, then use Hoppes or Shooters Choice to get any copper left behind.

If you've got lead at the muzzle, you're lube deficient. White Label 2500 is all I will use for rifles.

[Larry Gibson]

Larry-

Thanks for weighing in on this. AND, thanks for posting your work with Leverevolution powder. I think it's going to end up being a very valuable tool in everyone's quest to squeeze out more speed with lower pressures.
That said, I tried to take a picture of my muzzle with the aforementioned...stuff. Is this what leading looks like? I ran a bore brush thru the .303, and after sitting one day with some Hoppes #9, it seemed to come out, but it took some elbow grease. I will change lubes first, and see if that helps, then slug bore.
Thanks to everyone that responded, good points all. Filed in the "I shoulda tried that first" folder.

I'm always open to suggestions- if anyone can identify this stuff in my barrel, I'm willing to do what it takes to eliminate it. Thanks again!
-

101598

Yes that is leading. As you see there are several solutions but the one I prefer is to not have it occur in the 1st place. As previously mentioned I suspect the lube is the real culprit but it could also be the alloy or both. To determine which work on the lube 1st and then the alloy if necessary.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

Just shot 45 rounds of 7.65 Argentine through one of my M91s to test the Argentine SF 75 cases I converted to SR boxer primers. Load was the GB 314291 (170 gr) cast of RL + 25% lead + 2% tin AC'd, sized at .314 with my own .014 AL GC. lubed with an NRA 50/50 lube, over 28 gr milsurp 4895 with a 3/4 gr Dacron filler. The bore is lightly frosted in that rifle. Note the lack of "leading".

Larry Gibson

101692101693

[detox]

Most people do not clean their barrels well and try to shoot cast thru a copper fouled barrel. To remove leading I would scrub the barrel using solvent and 0000 Steel Wool wrapped around bore brush. The fine steel wool will remove lead and polish the bore slightly without damage (be carefull around crown area) . After all leading is removed, use patches and a strong copper solvent such as Sweet's 7.62 solvent to remove copper fouling (follow directions). After cleaning I use a light gun oil to coat bore before shooting.

Slug your barrel and size bullets .001-.002 over. I use LBT Soft Blue or SPG with good results. Try water quenching your cast bullets to make them a little harder.